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Many Universities Cancelling Spring Break; Ruth Bader Ginsburg Death May Impact Election; Interview with Director Julie Cohen and Former Law Clerk Margo Schlanger of "RBG". Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired September 21, 2020 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Do you remember college spring break?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

HARLOW: A lot of us do. It is not going to happen for a lot of college kids this year. The University of Michigan this morning, reportedly the latest to cancel their spring break. More colleges, universities doing the same as they struggle to contain COVID outbreaks on campus, they don't want people on planes, right? And coming back and forth and all over the place.

SCIUTTO: And big beach parties --

HARLOW: Well, that. I didn't do that. I mean, yours --

SCIUTTO: -- it's been a few more years for me since then than you, but yes, I do remember.

(LAUGHTER)

CNN senior global affairs analyst Bianna Golodryga, who probably remembers too. Bianna, tell us what this means for students -- and I guess, listen, how do colleges enforce it, right? I mean, how do they enforce it from kids not finding ways to just go travel somewhere and spend time together?

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: It is difficult, and it's sobering too, Jim and Poppy, as we approach 200 deaths in this country, to see where schools are focused. Remember when school began and prior to the opening of schools, we had focus around Thanksgiving, right? That they would close down before Thanksgiving so that students wouldn't bring back any illness when they came back to finish the semester.

Well now, they're looking ahead, beyond Thanksgiving, beyond winter break, they're looking into spring break of next year. And you're right, they're trying to mitigate the spread, they're obviously acknowledging that this disease and this virus is going to be with us for months if not years to come. And so what they're doing is eliminating spring break. We saw the University of Michigan, scrapping its spring break. The

school's chancellor said in a statement that they would mitigate the possible risks associated with campus community members who may have traveled during the middle of the semester.

And of course, University of Michigan is not the only school to do so. The University of Wisconsin at Madison, Purdue University, Ohio State University, Kansas University, University of Tennessee, the University of Florida, Baylor University and many others -- Carnegie Mellon -- are making similar moves.

And again, it's approaching a disaster that we're seeing transpire on campuses right now, where we're seeing an increased spread despite the fact that they have PPE, despite the fact that they have testing, we are still seeing children -- if children will -- they'll always be children in our eyes, right?

But we're still seeing college students go out and do what -- you know, what a lot of children do. And they don't listen, they go and party and they think that they are untouchable. And in fact even if they don't contract visible signs of the illness, they can go back home and they can spread it to larger areas of the community.

So that's what they're trying to do. This semester and next semester are going to look quite different for college students. I don't know about you, I was on college -- you know, at the library studying during my spring break, I was not out partying. Yes, right?

(LAUGHTER)

But I will say that they acknowledge that this is not ideal for students, so they're going to turn them into reading days and rest days. We'll see what happens, but that's what they're laying out now.

HARLOW: Reading and rest, Cancun? I don't know. Bianna, thank you. It makes a lot of sense in all seriousness, I just wonder if kids are going to abide by it. We appreciate it.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, it's true.

SCIUTTO: It does, and we know from the data that young people have been a vector for some of these --

HARLOW: Oh, yes.

SCIUTTO: -- resurgences.

[10:33:15]

Well, the battle to replace Justice Ginsburg has sparked a fierce -- of course -- political debate -- imagine that -- just 43 days before the November election. How, though, does this battle over a Supreme Court vacancy impact what happens at the polls, both with the Senate and the president?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SCIUTTO: Just 43 days -- 43 days -- and the nation will vote again for president and a lot of seats in Congress. The death of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg has raised the stakes even higher. Joining me now, CNN senior political writer and analyst Harry Enten.

Harry, OK, so I always go to you because, you know, there's a lot of conventional wisdom out there, but you look at the data, you're a data guy. So let's start on the big picture here. You know, whose side is more -- both sides are energized by this issue, no question. Whose side -- do we know from the data -- is likely to be more energized by this as a voting issue on November 3rd?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER AND ANALYST: Yes, so it's really interesting, right? I think a lot of people thought in 2016 that the Republican side was more energized. And in fact, our polling shows that, more Trump supporters said that the Supreme Court was extremely important to their vote than Hillary Clinton supporters did.

But look at the data this year, what do you see? You see in fact it's Biden supporters who are much more energized by the idea of nominating a new justice to the Supreme Court than the Trump voters.

Of course, it's not just that we're looking at the supporters of each of the candidates, but take a look at those persuadable voters, those who may change their mind. The New York Times-Siena College poll looked at those voters in three important swing states. And what did they show? They showed that Joe Biden was more -- said that Joe Biden would be better at picking the next Supreme Court Justice by an 18- point margin.

So when I look at the data, I would say the Supreme Court issue might actually be better for Democrats than is commonly assumed.

SCIUTTO: That's interesting, interesting. And I always like you for that because you look at the data, you don't just go with what you hear at the bar, as important as that could be.

Let's talk then -- so that's in the national race, let's talk about the Senate races here, right? Because, I mean, control of the Senate, it's a big deal, you've got a lot of tight races that could determine -- that will determine the outcome here. Do you have a sense of how this plays into those races?

[10:40:00]

ENTEN: Yes. So this is, again, really interesting. A lot of people remember the Kavanaugh hearings from two years ago and said, wow, that really seemed to move the dial in a lot of red states, a lot of red seats. But what's important to point out is the Senate landscape is so different than it was two years ago, right?

Back two years ago, you had five Democrats who were defending their seats in red states. Now, you only have one Democrat -- Doug Jones -- in Alabama who's defending his seat. And the truth is, that seat was already vulnerable and probably going the Republicans' way anyway. Take a look at the top five closest Senate races right now that Dems

have a pickup opportunity in: Arizona, Colorado, Iowa, Maine, North Carolina. Those are all purple states, they're not overwhelmingly Republican states. And right now when you look at it, the Democrats are either tied in those states or actually somewhat ahead.

And when I look at the data, given everything we know, I'm not really sure that the Supreme Court nomination fight that we have coming up will necessarily help Republicans. If anything, it may help Democrats and they need four of those five seats, and they are in a pretty good position at this point to get that.

SCIUTTO: Interesting. Well, we're going to keep on top of it. I know you're getting new data virtually every other day. Harry Enten, always good to have you on.

ENTEN: it's virtually every day, not every other day.

(LAUGHTER)

SCIUTTO: Exactly, the way it should be.

HARLOW: That -- we need to have him every day. Harry, thank you.

Up next, as the political fight over Justice Ginsburg's seat carries on, we are going to take a moment to reflect on her legacy and her life and the importance of having the court be viewed as independent.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUTH BADER GINSBURG, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: It is distressing when the people regard the judiciary as just another political branch of government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:46:21]

HARLOW: Well as we remember and we honor Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg's remarkable trailblazing life this morning, a big question mark now hangs over some of the legendary cases that she ruled on, both writing majority opinions and dissenting on the fate of Obamacare -- that's a big one -- voting rights in this country, abortion rights, all now in the spotlight as Congress decides when and how and with whom to fill her seat.

With me now is the director of the Academy Award-nominated CNN film "RBG" Julie Cohen, who made it along with Betsy West and also Margo Schlanger. Margo clerked for Justice Ginsburg from '93 to '95, and now teaches law at the University of Michigan.

Thank you both for being here, good morning.

MARGO SCHLANGER, FORMER GINSBURG CLERK: Good morning. JULIE COHEN, DIRECTOR, RBG: (INAUDIBLE) to be here.

HARLOW: Let's take a look at one of my favorite clips -- if we could, Julie (ph) -- from the documentary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GINSBURG: In my lifetime, I expect to see three, four, perhaps even more women on the High Court bench, women not shaped from the same mold but of different complexions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Wow, what a time. I mean -- and to be confirmed 96 to three, unthinkable, unthinkable today. Julie, let me just begin with you personally. I mean, you spent three years -- three years -- with her, making this film. What do you think about this week?

COHEN: You know, it's a sad week. I mean, "RBG" was such a presence and such a life force that even though she was 87 years old and had been struggling against really serious cancer for quite some time, I still found myself absolutely shocked that she passed away.

Hearing her now sort of in that clip, talking about a wish for more women on the court, is -- there's some irony there of course, Trump having announced that he's planning to appoint a woman. Surely not exactly the pick that Justice Ginsburg might have had in mind.

HARLOW: Margo to you, you were one of her first law clerks, you were 25 years old. I don't even remember what I was doing at 25, but what an immense amount of responsibility at that young age. And you recall specifically the first phone call that you had with her. What did she say?

SCHLANGER: Well, it wasn't the first phone call, it was the first phone call after her confirmation --

HARLOW: Right, OK.

SCHLANGER: -- and she called me. So before that, she'd been Judge Ginsburg. And when she called me, she would say, "It's the judge." And this time she called and she said, you know, "Hi, Margo, it's the" -- and then she sort of laughed. And then she finally got out, "the Justice." Like she sort of -- she just found --

HARLOW: Couldn't believe it?

SCHLANGER: -- the whole thing such a hoot, she couldn't believe it but there she was, yes. It was adorable.

HARLOW: Aside from all she taught you about the law, you ended up marrying a fellow clerk. And there is a lot that she has taught all of us, I think, about a successful marriage. One of my favorite quotes, "It's sometimes good to be a little deaf," right? But -- on a more serious note, she taught you about what a real sort of feminist and equal marriage could be. SCHLANGER: Yes, she did. It was really an amazing model to see up-

front, because you know, Marty Ginsburg was one of the best tax lawyers in America, it's not like he was some kind of slouch professionally. And so the two of them had this -- they were high- powered professionally and they were committed to family personally. And they had this equal marriage in a way that was just a great model as I was, you know, building my own marriage.

HARLOW: What are your thoughts on that, Julie ,documenting her talking about her personal life and about her marriage? Because it ties directly to her professional success. We know that he lobbied hard for Bill Clinton to consider her for the position, and that he moved, you know, for her career to thrive and flourish.

COHEN: Yes, that's right. I mean, you know, by the time we were spending time with Justice Ginsburg, Marty Ginsburg had been dead for some number of years. We were timid about approaching the subject because we thought, oh, well this must be so painful, you know, her husband who passed away.

And yet every time the name "Marty Ginsburg" came up, it was just the opposite. There was like this twinkle in her eye, she loved to talk about him. And that's because she knew how much of a role he had played in her personal life, in her professional life.

Like, do you know how unusual it would have been in the 1950s for a husband to, like, care as much or more about his wife's career than his own? Like, frankly, it's pretty unusual today but imagine back when they first got together, it's a really inspiring story.

HARLOW: She said he was the only boy -- they were teenagers when they met -- who cared that she had a brain. I'll never forget that line.

Margo, in all seriousness, when you talk about who is going to replace her, and when you look at the justices that are on the court now, you think there's a real importance to having civil rights, plaintiff-side civil rights attorneys on the High Court?

SCHLANGER: I do. Justice Ginsburg was only the second time we've had a civil rights lawyer on the court, the first was Thurgood Marshall.

And I think that there's -- nothing can replace the experience advocating for, working for equality in your professional life before you become a judge. And so I think that it was her absolute highest priority that she thought that democracy depends on the expansion of We the People, and we as a people deserve someone who shares that commitment.

HARLOW: Before we go, obviously, this happened on Rosh Hashana, on the Jewish new year. You are Jewish and, Margo, you -- as I understand it, you read a poem on Friday evening by the Reverend Audette Fulbright in shul. Quote, "I know you ache, I know you wish the work were done. And you, with everyone you have ever loved, were on a distant shore, safe and unafraid. But remember this: Tired as you are, you are not alone." Why those words? SCHLANGER: Yes. It was actually our rabbi who picked out that poem,

and it just really resonated with me because it's about carrying on the fight for justice in the space of loss, and remembering that we personally can commit and can further that. And in a moment of such loss, it was just -- it was really important to hear it.

HARLOW: Thank you for sharing some of those memories with us. Julie, to you and Betsy and that magnificent -- again, Academy Award- nominated film, I hope people watch it. It's on CNN on demand if they haven't seen it, it's remarkable.

Thanks, ladies.

SCHLANGER: Thank you.

COHEN: Thanks, Poppy.

HARLOW: All right -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: It is indeed phenomenal, really, a must watch.

[10:53:11]

Well, a night for the record books at the virtual primetime Emmys: the shows that took home trophies, and the stars who used their wins to push for justice, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Well, a big night at the Emmys as the ceremony -- like so many events this year -- went entirely virtual because of the pandemic. And they were full of sweeps and near-sweeps with several shows winning big.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Catherine O'Hara, "Schitt's Creek."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eugene Levy, "Schitt's Creek."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Daniel Levy, Daniel Levy, "Schitt's Creek."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Well, "Schitt's Creek" broke records by becoming the first series to take home all seven comedy awards in a single night. It's amazing to think, you know, considering how many great comedy shows there have been through the years.

HARLOW: Exactly. I think we know what we have to watch tonight.

All right, Zendaya also making history as the youngest person to win lead actress in a drama series for her role in HBO's "Euphoria." A record number of black actors snagged trophies last night, including Regina King for her role in "Watchmen." She accepted the award wearing a T-shirt honoring Breonna Taylor, a 26-year-old EMT worker fatally shot by police in March.

Several winners used their acceptance speeches to urge viewers to vote in the November election.

SCIUTTO: Well the show concluded the night with a moving tribute to Ruth Bader Ginsburg as well as "Black Panther" star Chadwick Boseman and several others during the "In Memoriam" segment, particularly poignant last night.

HARLOW: Absolutely.

Well, thank you all for joining us today. We'll see you tomorrow morning. I'm Poppy Harlow.

[10:59:56]

SCIUTTO: And I'm Jim Sciutto. NEWSROOM with our colleague John King starts right now.

[11:00:00]