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Supreme Court Vacancy Animates 2020 Election Debate; Senate Republicans to Watch on Supreme Court Nomination; Biden: "So Much a Stake" with Supreme Court Fight; 28 States Trending in the Wrong Direction; Giroir: We Want a Surge in Testing of Younger People; Dr. Carlos Del Rio Discusses Trump Giving Himself A+ Grade on Pandemic as Cases Rise, U.S. Nears 200,000 Deaths, CDC Updating Guidelines on Virus Spread; Ginsburg to Lie in Repose at Supreme Court Wednesday and Thursday. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired September 21, 2020 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

"NEWSROOM" with our colleague, John King, starts right now.

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everybody. Top of the hour. I'm John King in Washington. Thanks so much for sharing a very busy news day with us.

A painful mile marker today in the coronavirus fight. The United States all but certain to pass 200,000 COVID-19 deaths, 200,000.

Plus, the average daily new case count is back above 40,000 new infections a day and what a doctor calls an unmistakable fight.

Yet, the president insists the country has rounded the final turn. And this morning, he grades himself A-plus on his pandemic handling.

More on the virus ahead.

We begin with an election year collision over a Supreme Court vacancy just 43 days away from the November vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (voice-over): There are actually five I'm looking at. It's down to five. And we're -- you know, it could be any one of them. I'm going to make a decision on either Friday or Saturday. I will announce it either Friday or Saturday. And -- and then the work begins.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The president says the Senate can and should confirm a new justice before November 3rd, before Election Day. Democrats scream Republican hypocrisy. Remember, the same Republican majority leader, Mitch McConnell,

refused to hold an election-year vote for an Obama court pick back in 2016.

The question is, how this will shape the final weeks of the 2020 campaign.

President Trump makes his case in battleground Ohio later today. Joe Biden will be in battleground Wisconsin.

The Republicans have no qualms, zero qualms about putting power over precedent or principle. This is a chance for them to replace a liberal with a conservative, a chance for Republicans to create a decisive 6-3 conservative majority.

Judicial picks were an issue that clearly helped Candidate Trump back in 2016. But Democrats believe 2020 can be different as liberals face the very real prospect of a court with three Trump justices and a court with the votes to throw out Obamacare and to erase or at least weaken "Roe v. Wade."

The first test, of course, whether the president and Leader McConnell can win the votes for a fast-track confirmation. It would take four Republicans to block that, and there are two already.

Biden makes this case in an appeal for two more to step up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I appeal to those few Senate Republicans, a handful who really will decide what happens, please, follow your conscience. Don't vote to confirm anyone nominated under the circumstances that President Trump and Senator McConnell have created. Don't go there.

Uphold your Constitutional duty, your conscience. Let the people speak. Cool the flames that have been engulfing our country. We can't keep rewriting history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Let's go to CNN's John Harwood, covering the White House for us.

John, the president feels very differently, clearly, putting pressure on Republicans today to move quickly.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. The first thing on president's mind, John, is speed. There were some conservatives who thought the smart political play was for him to delay a nomination, to try to rouse his conservative base during the election.

The president wants to shake up the race right now. He's got a stubborn deficit against Joe Biden.

Secondly, he's openly taking about some of the political considerations.

Barbara Lagoa as one of the candidates, Cuban-American from Florida. President Trump said on "FOX & Friends" this morning, we love Florida. That's a critical state in the election.

He's also mindful that conservatives want to shape the court for a very long time. He said we want to get someone who can serve for 30, 40 years.

Allison Jones Rushing, of North Carolina, another battleground state, is only 38 years old. She would serve a long time.

But, of course, the key consideration is: What can you get 51 votes for in the Senate? That's Mitch McConnell's job. And he's already signaled to the White House that Amy Coney Barrett, considered the front-runner, is someone acceptable to Republicans.

The final thing is the president, as you indicated in the toss, John, is not at all concerned about the whole hypocrisy angle and the fact that Republicans would be accused of doing the opposite of what they can against President Obama.

As President Trump said this morning on FOX, when you have the Senate, you can do whatever you want. And he's right about that.

KING: He is right. And Republicans are much more comfortable with Democrats just saying that we have the power. We're going to use it. Never mind the past.

John Harwood, very important reporting at the beginning of a very important week at the White House. Thank you so much, John.

Let's continue the conversation now with Jonathan Martin, of the "New York Times," and Seung Min Kim of the "Washington Post."

Seung Min, I want to start with you because of your experience with Mitch McConnell and wandering the halls of the United States Senate.

These are the Senators we're watching, Susan Collins, Cory Gardner, Chuck Grassley, Lisa Murkowski and Mitt Romney.

Collins and Murkowski have already stepped forward, yes, of course, the president can make a nomination but doesn't believe there should be a Senate vote before the election.

And the president today on "FOX & Friends" says, guess what -- listen to this -- I'm watching, too.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[11:05:04]

TRUMP (voice-over): I think Susan Collins is very badly hurt by her statement yesterday. And I think -- I think Murkowski is very badly hurt. And she doesn't run for two year, but I think that this will follow her. (END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: That, Seung Min Kim, is more about -- it's not just about Murkowski and Collins. That's about those other Senators thinking about, which way do I go.

SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. You've seen the Senate Republican majority all throughout President Trump's term in office to line up pretty much behind him, and that's what we're expecting for the most part.

A lot of focus on Mitt Romney. The White House is closely watching him as a potential third defection to align themselves with Collins and Murkowski.

And we know, from Senator Romney's vote to convict Trump on one of the impeachment charges, that he is someone who is willing to break from the president.

Now his office has stayed quiet over the weekend. We perhaps expect him to say something later today or more likely tomorrow after Republicans have a chance to kind of strategize as a group.

But, yes, who that third person is a big question.

You know, you heard former Vice President Joe Biden try to appeal to kind of the institutionalists of the Senate. And that seems to be a direct comment towards Chuck Grassley.

But, remember, then Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley, you know, did align behind Mitch McConnell and his strategy.

You saw Lamar Alexander do that, too, over the weekend.

KING: I have a very hard time -- Romney I can see doing it. I can get you to three pretty easy. Not sure about getting to four.

KIM: Yes.

KING: That's an enormous challenge.

So, Jonathan Martin, the question is: Can Joe Biden create a mod in the country where the public demands this, to convince institutionalists, as Seung Min Kim put it, like a Chuck Grassley. It's hard to find that other personal?

So listen to Biden trying to tell Democrats, don't just focus on the Senate math. Focus on the issues at stake here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: There's so much at stake, the right to health care, clean air, clean water, the environment, equal pay for equal work, the rights of voters, immigrants, women workers.

And right now, our country faces a choice, a choice about whether we will come back from the brink.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: There's sort of two political windows we need to watch. One is the short-term window. Will public opinion sway any Senators to say we can't do this?

But I'm more fascinated by the larger one because there's no question that this issue helped Candidate Trump in 2016.

Democrats think it could be different now though because of the very real prospect, a 6-3 court with three Trump picks that would throw out Obamacare, weaken "Roe v. Wade" if not erase it completely, marriage equality, environmental protection, so many other issues.

JONATHAN MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. I think Democrats have clear enthusiasm right now against Trump. And I think they obviously will have even more with those issues, John, that you just mentioned now being effectively on the ballot.

I think that's going to get not just liberals more motivated as they clearly are, if you look at the fundraising over the weekend.

But I think it has the potential of drawing in so many less ideological, more moderate voters who don't like the idea of rushing through a Supreme Court pick, doing this the way President Trump appears to want it done.

And I think the polling on that, not overwhelmingly, but the polling on that is going to show that people are opposed to this.

And I think, John, to answer your question, I think that's the only scenario where you find a fourth Republican Senator is based on the polling, voters not liking this.

And that leads me to one place, Colorado and Cory Gardner. To me, that is the best chance that Democrats have to find a fourth Senator, someone who is on the ballot this year in a blue state where the polling almost certainly is going to show voters are opposed to this, this rushed pick.

If it's not Gardner, I don't know who the fourth is beyond -- beyond the institutionalists that Seung Min mentioned. If Lamar Alexander is an indication, he's behind McConnell.

KING: And the challenge for Gardner, you're right, he may feel, I need to say no because I need moderate Independent voters.

(CROSSTALK)

KING: But the second he says no, he loses the Tea Party and Trump base in Colorado and then his math becomes impossible. So it's a difficult choice.

(CROSSTALK) KING: Seung Min, it's a difficult choice for Democrats, too, and Joe Biden, because he is a traditionalist, because he was in the Senate for nearly 40 years.

He's been reluctant to say let's throw out the filibuster. He says he'll keep it on the table as an option depending on what happens.

He's reluctant to do that and doesn't want to expand and pack the Supreme Court.

And then you have progressives like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez who say that Democrats have to keep every option on the table and be very aggressive in this fight. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[11:10:01]

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): With an early appointment, all of our rights, the rights that so many people died for, voting rights, reproductive rights, health care rights, all of those rights go right -- go -- are at risk.

We need to tell him that he is playing with fire. We need to make sure that this vacancy is protected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: I guess another subset of the many questions is: Can Joe Biden keep peace with his own progressive base?

Will the fact that this is a Trump pick and everybody is -- on the left is unified to block this pick, is that enough to keep tensions from the left who say Joe Biden, you need to be more aggressive and need to put on the table we'll expand the court, you need to say we'll try to push D.C. statehood, Puerto Rico statehood to change the Senate?

KIM: Well, I think you're already seeing those internal divisions bubbling up a bit.

You know, Joe Biden pointedly did not talk about these structural changes to the Supreme Court that have been so demanded by liberals.

And reporting from the "Washington Post" shows that some of Biden's advisers are a little bit irritated with some of the progressive Senators, such as Ed Markey, who loudly said, after the passing of Justice Ginsburg, that if Republicans try to push this nomination through, then we will change the filibuster, expand the number of seats on the court.

So that is certainly a tension that will continue to bubble up in the coming days.

And that's why you see people like Joe Biden -- and also, you know, Chuck Schumer in a private call with members over the weekend, sources told me that, yes, he did talk about nothing being off -- no option being off the table if Republicans do push through with this before the election.

But they are also trying to stress to voters the stakes of this vacancy. What this vacancy means for health care, abortion, voting rights, civil rights.

And that's what they are trying to do right now to get their base excited about something that has traditionally been an issue that has energized conservatives.

KING: A giant fight thrown into a campaign that already was combustible to begin with.

Seung Min Kim, Jonathan Martin, very much appreciate the reporting and insights. Again, we'll continue this conversation. Six weeks from tomorrow is Election Day. And many people voting as this fight plays out because they are voting early.

Thank you both so much.

Up next for us, 200,000 American deaths, the coronavirus case count heading up again. And yet, the president gives himself an A-plus.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:16:50]

KING: The United States on track today to pass a horribly grim milestone, 200,000 American deaths from the coronavirus. The National Cathedral tolled its bell Sunday marking that death count here in the United States.

Let's take a closer look at some of the trends. And they are troubling not just in the death count.

Number one, when you look at our 50-state map, you see all the orange and red. This is not what you want. This map has taken a decided turn for the worse in recent days.

And 28 states reporting more new infections this week compared to last week, 28 states trending in the wrong direction.

The deep red are states that are reporting 50 percent more new infections this week compared to last week. And you can see too many of those on the map especially out here in the west. And 28 states trending in the wrong direction.

And 16 holding steady, including California, one of the big states part of the summer surge. Six states reporting fewer infections than the data a week ago. And 28 states heading in the wrong direction.

The president says we've made the final turn. This is not the turn. This is a turn for the worse.

Let's take a look at case curve. And, again, heading into the summer, 20,000 new infections a day was the average. We got up close to 70,000 at the peak of the summer surge. Has started to come down.

And look what we're doing now. Starting to trend back up. This is not the way you want to be going. That's not the turn you want to be taking.

Now averaging 40,000 new infections a day. It had dipped down closer to 36. We'll see how that plays out.

Now we'll blame here. This is the milestone we'll hit today, 200,000 American deaths from March to the end of September, not quite the end of September, 200,000.

That's Huntsville, Alabama, that's Salt Lake City, that's Grand Rapids, Michigan, wiped out, killed by the coronavirus over these past months.

If you look at the testing trend right now, about a million tests, a couple days last week. The average is about 800,000 new coronavirus tests a day.

Some public health experts say you want more than that. Held pretty steady, around 800,000 for the last couple of weeks here.

Here's where you get concerned. This is not too bad from a public health perspective. And 5 percent is the national average. The seven- day national trending average for coronavirus tests, about 5 percent coming back positive nationwide.

Public health experts say get it down to 5 percent and then try to shove it down lower.

Here's an issue as we see the cases starting to spike up. Ten states are now above 10 percent for the last seven days. Ten states above 10 percent. Sixteen more states between 5 percent and 10 percent.

That's where the new cases are coming from. To get eyes on the cases you need new testing. The administration, again, changing its policies about testing.

Admiral Brett Giroir, the testing czar, defends the administration and says we've got this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADM. BRETT GIROIR, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF HEALTH, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: We do want to encourage more testing. We have sent surge sites, federal surge sites to 19 different cities, primarily focusing on the younger population that could be asymptomatic because we know they are very important in the spread of this infection.

We're going to continue to surge. We're going to continue to support testing. And, again, every week, we send county level recommendations to states. We want to work with them to increase that.

We do need more testing, particularly in the outbreak areas that we identify on a weekly basis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Let's bring in Dr. Carlos Del Rio, executive associate dean of Emory University Medicine.

Dr. Del Rio, grateful for your time today.

[11:20:01]

I look at the numbers every day and I get depressed looking at those numbers every day. It's unmistakable to me we're starting to go back up. I don't know if that's a new hill in the first wave or the beginning of a second wave.

But when you look at the data, the president says we've turned the final corner. Is there any doubt in your mind that, in recent days, we've taken a turn for the worse?

DR. CARLOS DEL RIO, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST & EXECUTIVE ASSOCIATE DEAN, EMORY UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: No, John, I agree with you. I'm very concerned. I think we're going up in the number of cases.

And more importantly, the number of deaths, as you say, continues to pretty flat about 1,000 deaths a day. We crossed, as you mentioned, 200,000 deaths.

May 28th is when we reached 100,000. And the predictions are by the end of the year, 100 days left until the end of the year, that's another 100,000 deaths. So we may be at 300,000 you by New Years.

These are not necessary, not deaths that should happen. We need a national strategy to avoid this from happening.

KING: It's not necessary, you're absolutely right. And if we could go back to February and the lost month about testing and fast forward to where we are right now and still a lot of questions about testing and other steps as children go back to school, as older kids go back to campuses.

And as we will hit today -- I do this so that people can try to visualize, 200,000 people, that's everybody in Salt Lake City. That's everybody in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

And yet, the president of the United States this morning says this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP (voice-over): We're rounding the corner, with or without a vaccine. They hate it when I say it but that's the way it is. We're rounding the corner on pandemic.

And we've done a phenomenal job. Not just a good job, a phenomenal job. On public relations, I give myself a "D." And on the job itself, we

take an A-plus with the ventilators and now with the vaccines that are years ahead of schedule.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: An A-plus, Dr. Del Rio?

DEL RIO: Well, you know, in the development of the vaccine, the way it's gone through Operation Warp Speed and where we are, probably going to have some vaccine approved by the end of the year.

I think we can give Operation Warp Speed an "A." And I don't think we can give an "A" in the public health response. That deserves a "D."

And the reality is we've not had a national strategy. We've had 50 central artery giants. Each state has had a strategy. And as a result of that, we have a very uncoordinated approach.

And the reality, is you know, like a balloon. You squeeze it one place, it pops in another. You really are not working as a nation. You're working and just moving parts in a way that real el makes no sense.

KING: That's an excellent analogy. And as we continue to learn more, this was the novel coronavirus when it sprung on scene and we continue to learn about it.

I want your insights on this. This is the new coronavirus CDC update on particles and the spread of coronavirus. "COVID-19 may spread through the droplets and airborne particles that are formed when a person who has COVID-19 talks, sings, sneezes or breathes."

"There's growing evidence that droplets and airborne particles can remain suspended in the air and be breathed in by others and travel distances beyond six feet. In general, indoor environments without good ventilation increase this risk."

Reading that, as a lay person, that tells me there are still considerable risks going back to work or school.

When you saw this new update, sir, what stood out most to you?

DEL RIO: Well, what -- what stands out to me the most, John, is that indoor environments and crowded indoor environments are not good.

And that's why many of us, including the coronavirus -- White House Coronavirus Task Force say, in states with significant outbreaks, you have to close bars and have you to close indoor dining or you have to dramatically spread people apart.

But the reality is, when you are in a small room with poor ventilation and a lot of people, the risk of air transmission is real. And, therefore, wearing a mask at all times is very important.

And if I was in a very close environment like that, I would also wear eye protection, whether it's goggles or a face shield.

KING: You mentioned Operation Warp Speed does seem to be doing it at a pretty healthy pace what it's designed to do.

I want you to listen here to Admiral Giroir, the HHS secretary, giving their view on a vaccine timeline.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIROIR: In front of the Senate, Dr. Redfield and I both said that a vaccine that would be widely available in hundreds of millions of doses would not likely happen until mid-2021. That is a fact.

ALEX AZAR, HHS SECRETARY: If we had said back in January that, by the end of this year, we'd have 100 million dozes likely of FDA gold- standard vaccine in the United States, people would have laughed at that. And this is a realistic possibility for this country now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Mid-2021, the admiral says and Secretary Azar thinks by the end of this year at least some.

What's your best sense based on everything you've seen, not from people talking about in a political context but the scientific data?

DEL RIO: I think they are both right. I think, by the end of this year, we may have data enough to have one or more vaccines, say they are sufficient enough data on efficacy, say they are approved.

It may take a little longer but I think it will be by the end of this year.

[11:25:00]

What has happened, John, that many people don't realize, is the government, through BARTA, has invested hundreds of millions in creating and having the vaccines being tested, being manufactured. So they are being manufactured.

So if any other vaccines -- let's say vaccine "A" is approved, they can go and pull 100 million doses of vaccine "A" instead of waiting for approval and production. Production is already happening. So they are both right.

However, the reality is the -- the logistics of getting this vaccine to millions of people, the logistics -- because most likely you need two doses and you need two doses and refrigeration.

And Admiral Giroir is right. To get the millions of doses to millions of people is probably not going to be until the second or third quarter of 2021.

KING: Dr. Del Riot, as always, sir, grateful for your expertise and insights and your time at a busy moment for you as well. Thank you, sir. DEL RIO: Thank you, John.

KING: Thank you.

Breaking news just into us. Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg will lie in repose at the Supreme Court on Wednesday and Thursday of this week.

Joan Biskupic joins us on this breaking news.

Joan, this was a question. Yes, of course, there's tradition, but there's also this pandemic.

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SUPREME COURT ANALYST: That's right. And in the past, justices who have been there lying in repose have been able to be seen by the public. You know, people filed in non-stop.

I remember when President Obama went for Justice Scalia when he was lying in repose.

So what they are going to do is still have the body of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg there. But it will be only a private viewing for Wednesday and Thursday.

They have made arrangements to have the public outside during this. And I believe on Wednesday morning is when -- when this will all begin.

But it -- it closes the loop on a question that we've all had about her memorial services, which are so important to, you know, to -- to commemorating her death and her life.

And then also I think it's another piece for the Trump administration to be trying to figure out when they come forward with any kind of nomination.

So we know, for Wednesday and Thursday, at least in a very public way, she will be there.

KING: Joan Biskupic with those important details.

Joan will stand by with us.

And this, of course, helps the president, saying he would have his pick probably on Friday and Saturday of this week. He wants to wait, out of respect, for the services that will take place at the Supreme Court.

Joan, stand by.

Because coming up for us, the women on President Trump's short list to replace Justice Ginsburg.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:30:00]