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Ginsburg's Seat Draped in Black as U.S. Mourns Loss; Battle Looms as Trump Announcement Could be Near; Biden Urges Senate to Delay Vote Until After Election; Democrats Suggest Adding Seats If Trump Nominee is Approved; People Pay Tribute Outside the Supreme Court; Protests at White House as U.S. Nears 200,000 Deaths; CDC Acknowledges Virus Can Spread Through the Air; U.K., France Weigh Additional Health Rules as New Cases Surge. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired September 21, 2020 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us here in the United States and all around the world, you are watching CNN NEWSROOM and I'm Rosemary Church.

Just ahead, the fight over the U.S. Supreme Court. President Trump says he will unveil his nominee this week but another Republican is breaking ranks.

The U.S. approaches a COVID-19 milestone as we hear new guidance on how easy the virus can spread and --

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody's for Joe Biden in this town. I think he's going to win.

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CHURCH: Why this Irish town is backing Biden in November's Presidential election and how he's wading into the Brexit debate.

Good to have you with us. And we begin with a showdown brewing in Washington where U.S. Democrats and Republicans are gearing up for a battle over Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg's seat. This as the country continues to mourn the passing of the Supreme Court icon. The seat, which she occupied for nearly three decades, is now covered with a black crepe.

But the U.S. President Donald Trump is already scrambling to fill that vacancy with less than two months to go before the U.S. Presidential election. His campaign is even selling t-shirts calling for just that. Mr. Trump says he plans to pick a woman for the job, possibly this week.

Meanwhile, the U.S. Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden says the winner of November's race should decide who will fill the Supreme Court seat. The former vice president has committed to nominating a black woman to the bench if he's elected. Well, CNN's Manu Raju previews what's looking to be a fascinating political fight in Washington.

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MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Donald Trump is moving quickly to name his Supreme Court nominee to fill the seat of the late Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Raise your right hand.

RAJU: According to sources familiar with the process, three female appeals court judges appear to be among the frontrunners -- Amy Coney Barrett, Barbara Lagoa and Allison Jones Rushing. But he has little margin for error to get his nomination confirmed to the bench before the November election.

Trump and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell can only afford to lose the support of three Republican senators in order to get 51 votes to get a nominee confirmed.

But, already, two Republicans have said the nomination should wait until after the election. The latest, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, the lone Republican to vote against Brett Kavanaugh's nomination to the court in 2018. On Sunday, Murkowski said, "I did not support taking up a nomination eight months before the 2016 election to fill the vacancy created by the passing of Justice Scalia. We are now even closer to the 2020 election, less than two months out, and I believe, the same standard must supply."

But Murkowski would not comment on Sunday about whether she would oppose Trump's nominee in a lame-duck session of Congress, which will occur after the November elections and conclude in January.

Similarly, Senator Susan Collins of Maine, fighting to keep her seat, has said the vote should wait until after the election, but her office has not responded to CNN's questions about whether she would vote against a Trump nominee in a lame-duck session, if former Vice President Joe Biden wins in November.

The battle over the nomination comes amid a furious fight for control of the Senate in November. And it has put some Republicans like Cory Gardner of Colorado in a difficult spot, as he campaigns to keep his seat.

In 2016, when Republicans refused to move on Barack Obama's nomination of Merrick Garland to the court, they argued it was too close to the election.

Garland said at the time, the American people deserve a role in this process.

But on Saturday, Gardner refused to say if he would stick to that same position now that there's a Republican president. SEN. CORY GARDNER (R-CO): There is time for debate. There is time for politics. But the time for now is to pray for the family.

RAJU: Several veteran Republican senators, including Chuck Grassley of Iowa, have also declined to say if they think the nomination should wait. And the party's 2012 nominee, Senator Mitt Romney, has so far declined to comment. Several Republicans in difficult races are aligning with Trump.

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): I voted for several hundred conservative judges, including two on the Supreme Court and another one on the way.

RAJU: Tillis sung a different tune four years ago.

TILLIS: We're going to let the American people speak.

[04:05:00]

RAJU: Republicans say times have changed, because they now control both the White House and the Senate, unlike 2016.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): It's a question of checks and balances.

RAJU: But four years ago, Cruz said this.

CRUZ: This is for the people to decide.

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CHURCH: And that was CNN's Manu Raju reporting.

If President Trump is able to push through another lifetime appointee, it will cement a 6 to 3 conservative majority on the Supreme Court and that will affect millions of lives for decades to come. Now Mr. Trump's rival, Joe Biden, is asking Republicans to think before they vote.

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JOE BIDEN, U.S. DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Don't vote to confirm anyone nominated under the circumstances President Trump and Senator McConnell have created. Don't go there. Uphold your constitutional duty, your conscience. Let the people speak. Cool the flames that have been engulfing our country. We can't keep rewriting history.

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CHURCH: And the top Democrat in the Senate, Chuck Schumer, says rushing a nomination so close to the election is despicable. On Sunday Schumer was asked about what could happen after the election. Just take a listen.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If the President's pick is approved and Biden wins the election, should we add more Supreme Court justices? SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY) SENATE MINORITY LEADER: Well, it would be a

decision that comes to the Senate. We first have to win the majority before that can happen. But once we win the majority, God willing, everything is on the table.

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CHURCH: And CNN's legal analyst, Areva Martin is in Los Angeles. She joins me now. Good to see you, thanks for talking with us.

AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, Rosemary.

CHURCH: So as the country mourns the loss of Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg, politics is driving the scramble to replace her. Ignoring and disrespecting RBG's dying wish to have the next president of this country decide who replaces her. So instead we see President Trump forging ahead but there is resistance coming from Senators Collins and Murkowski. How likely is it the two other Republican Senators will stand with them and stop this vote until after the election.

MARTIN: Well, you're right, Rosemary. The country is mourning the death of Ruth Bader Ginsberg, and me, too, as any lawyer would be. Because she paved the way for all of us to be in the legal profession today. And unfortunately, the Republicans are not honoring her legacy or her dying wish, which is to have her replacement appointed by the next president of the United States.

I have absolutely no faith that the two Republicans that have come forward or that there will be two others that have come forward. We've seen this play out before. We saw it with Brett Kavanaugh. Several Senators then signaled that they would be voting against Brett Kavanaugh for the Supreme Court but yet they changed their vote, you know, when the time actually came. So I don't think that Democrats can depend upon the Republicans doing the right thing. It's very clear, they're not going to put the people over their own political agenda. And they pretty much made that very clear given the statements that have been issued to date.

CHURCH: So if they can't rely on the Republicans, what are the options available to Democrats going forward?

MARTIN: Well, I think Chuck Schumer put it best when he said all options are on the table. If Democrats are successful in winning back the Senate come this November, I think you will see them considering packing the court which is the equivalent of extending the number of Justices on the court. There's no Supreme Court mandate is the Supreme Court only have nine justices. And we've started to hear many Senators and many others in the Democratic Party talk about expanding the court, not only to perhaps 11 but maybe even as many as 15 jurors.

We've also heard talk about eliminating the filibuster and even giving statehood to Washington, D.C., and potentially Puerto Rico which will give Democrats an opportunity to pick up some additional Democratic Senators. So I don't think anything is off the table.

CHURCH: Thanks to CNN legal analyst Areva Martin speaking with me just last hour.

Well, away from the political wrangling, people are paying tribute to Justice Ginsberg outside the Supreme Court. CNN's justice correspondent Jessica Schneider is there.

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JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: People have flocked to the Supreme Court for three nights in a row now. And it's not just all the flowers and the candles that people are laying out here. But the memorials have also turned inventive.

You can see on the sidewalk the chalk drawings. They say everything from, "Thank you, RBG" to "Rest in Power." It's really amazing.

[04:10:00]

These chalk tributes, they range all around the perimeter of the Supreme Court itself.

Now outside the Supreme Court tonight, the crowds have actually thinned out a lot thinner than last night's vibrant tribute and vigil. But you can see here that the flowers are still lining the sidewalk in front of the steps of the Supreme Court. People have been coming out here for three nights now to leave the flowers and to light these candles.

And the tributes aren't just outside. We've learned that inside the Supreme Court, even though it's been closed since March, they have kept to a tradition in that they've put a black wool crepe over Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg's bench chair and the bench in front of her. They've also hung a draping over the courtroom entrance. That's something that's been done since the 1800s.

So a lot of tributes out here. We're still waiting to hear what the final memorial plans are for Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

Jessica Schneider, CNN, Washington.

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CHURCH: Well, President Trump repeatedly boasted to journalist Bob Woodward about the number of judges he's appointed. The interviews for the book "Rage" provide insight into Mr. Trump's thinking as he prepares to push through a potential third Supreme Court nominee. CNN has obtained new audio from these interviews.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I just signed my 187th federal judge. It's a record, 187 judges in less than three years, Bob, and two Supreme Court judges. Never been done before. The only one that has a better percentage is George Washington, because he appointed 100 percent. But my percentage is, you know, like, ridiculous. And 187 --

BOB WOODWARD, JOURNALIST: And there were a couple of those judges --

TRUMP: I'll end up with -- when I get out, I'll probably have more than 50 percent of the federal judges in the country appointed under Trump.

WOODWARD: And Lindsey Graham has said that there were a couple of those judges that he himself didn't care for and rejected them. Are you aware of that?

TRUMP: Yeah. And other Senators too, yeah. And when they don't like them, I don't put them in. You know, I don't want --

WOODWARD: Does he have kind of -- because, you know, that's his committee and they --

TRUMP: Yeah, no, if Lindsey and other people don't like them, I don't put them in. You know why? Why do we want a broken system, you know? They don't like them because they may be, in some cases they're not conservative or they don't believe or they came out with a couple of bad decisions on something.

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CHURCH: Woodward told CNN's Anderson Cooper that President Trump's main objective is winning and the battle over the Supreme Court seat helps his chances in November.

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WOODWARD: What is interesting in these conversations with him about judges in the Supreme Court, he clearly is engaged, he realizes or believes it may be a winning issue for him. And instead of talking about the virus, now we are talking about the Supreme Court nominee.

Jared Kushner, the President's son-in-law, who's a senior advisor in the White House, in the book I quote Kushner saying, that there's a theory behind all of this. And that is controversy elevates message. In other words, if you have a controversy, it will elevate your message. In the message -- we're certainly going to have a controversy. And the message here from the President's side is going to be, look, he's tough. He's looking out for his base. He's going to get conservative Republican new justice.

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CHURCH: Bob Woodward with Anderson Cooper.

Well, the U.S. is fast approaching a somber new milestone in the coronavirus pandemic. Nearly 200,000 lives lost to COVID-19 and the CDC is updating its guidelines. We will have those details next.

[04:15:00]

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CHURCH: The United States is approaching a staggering number in the coronavirus pandemic. Nearly 200,000 people have died from COVID-19. Democrats protested outside the White House Sunday. They lit up a display that says, quote, Trump lied 200,000 died. CNN's Evan McMorris-Santoro has more on the pandemic from New York.

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EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Projections now show that in the next day or so America will cross a grim milestone in this pandemic. 200,000 confirmed deaths from complications of coronavirus. To put that number in perspective, let's go back to March 29th when President Trump addressed the idea of 200,000 deaths.

TRUMP: If we can hold that down as we're saying to 100,000, it's a horrible number, maybe even less, but to 100,000 so we have between 100 and 200,000, we altogether have done a very good job.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: That 200,000 number comes even as places like New York City, where I'm standing, are seeing their viral numbers come way down. But this country is still in the grips of this thing. The pandemic is wreaking havoc on the American economy, education, and of course people's lives and there's really no end in sight. Over the weekend Admiral Brett Giroir, a member of the president's coronavirus force, told CNN he has no real timeline for when a safe and effective vaccine will become widely available here.

Evan McMorris-Santoro, CNN, New York.

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Anne Rimoin is a professor of the department of epidemiology at UCLA and she joins me now from Los Angeles. Thank you so much for talking with us.

ANNE RIMOIN, PROFESSOR, UCLA FIELDING SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Nice to be here.

CHURCH: So, doctor, nearly 200,000 Americans have died from the coronavirus in seven months. More than any other country in the world. 31 states are seeing an increase in cases, but daily deaths are trending downwards. What does that indicate to you?

[04:20:00]

And how is it even possible that the richest country in the world has lost so many lives.

RIMOIN: Rosemary, there are a lot of questions in this -- that you've just posed right here, and a lot of really important facts that you've also stated. So the first thing that you mentioned, 200,000 deaths. This is really an important thing to stop and consider right now. When you think of 200,000 deaths, that's the size of a town. Montgomery, Alabama, for example, 200,000 people. That is the massive devastation of human life.

What we also need to think of, 200,000 deaths. It is now -- COVID-19 is now the third leading cause of death in the United States just after heart disease and cancer. The third leading cause of death in the United States used to be accidents. We've surpassed that in COVID- 19. So we are really at a very critical moment here, and it's important for everybody to remember that there -- it is in our hands to be able to reduce the spread of spreading the virus. Hand washing, social distance and of course, wearing masks.

CHURCH: Right, yes, critical indeed. And the CDC updated the guidance Sunday evening now saying the coronavirus can commonly spread through small particles in the air us through talking and breathing. So how does this change the way we approach COVID-19 and what does it say about the importance of wearing a mask?

RIMOIN: The guidelines by the CDC have recently been updated. And this is really good news, but this is not new news. We have been discussing for a lengthy period of time now that aerosol of this virus is possible and that it wasn't just these large droplets but small droplets that can hang in the air for not just minutes but even up to hours and can spread the virus.

So it's great that the CDC has now updated their guidelines based on science and that now it really underscores why it's so important to wear a mask, that social distancing is really important, and that six feet is a minimum of how far apart we should be. And that being in closed spaces is really something that we should avoid with people that are not in our households or in our small groups of people that we are close to or bubbling with.

This virus can spread from person to person and it has now been cultured from air in hospitals in air handling systems. And we know the importance of ventilation with this virus. Though being outdoors as opposed to indoors, social distancing and wearing a mask are critical.

CHURCH: And as we head into the flu season, along with COVID-19, the White House testing czar, Admiral Giroir is calling on all-Americans to wear masks and avoid crowds, as you've just mentioned. But we saw Saturday night President Trump held a huge rally in Fayetteville, North Carolina, with people packed in tightly together. Very few wearing masks. Not only is the message not getting through, but the actions of the President work against the message his own White House is trying to put out. What is going on here?

RIMOIN: It's a huge problem when the most powerful person in America is not embracing the word of public health and spreading it far and wide. And, in fact, encouraging people to be close together, not wearing masks and really promoting opportunities for this virus to spread.

Ann Rimoin, thank you as always. We appreciate it.

RIMOIN: It's my pleasure.

CHURCH: Well, coronavirus cases are rising in Europe, and that is worrying officials in the U.K. The country's chief medical officer says they are heading in the wrong direction at a critical point in the pandemic. And the British health secretary says a second national lockdown is possible if people don't follow health rules.

Across the channel, France set a new record for daily new cases over the weekend. The rising number of cases has prompted some major cities to impose even stricter health measures. Well, CNN is in France and the U.K. covering the pandemic. Melissa Bell is in Paris and Scott McLean is in London for us. So good to see you both. So, Melissa, let's start with you. What is the latest on the virus and restrictions across France?

MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: Well, here in the European continent, really worrying arises over the course of the last couple of weeks. And we've heard from the regional director of the World Health Organization at the end of last week, Rosemary, who explained that over the preceding two weeks the number of cases has doubled in more than half of all European countries.

[04:25:00]

It gives you an idea of the sort of Europe wide the nature of the problem.

The other problem with the second wave -- and we saw it as well with the first -- is how this is a virus that tends to strike in clusters. So there is this intense geographical concentration of it with that huge weight on health systems.

Now over the course of the summer, late summer, we've seen rises in some of those Mediterranean countries at people have been heading to for their summer break. What appears to be happening now is that the big urban centers, the big capital cities of Europe are under pressure as people get back to school, back to work with all those (INAUDIBLE) in those big cities. Cities like Paris being particularly affected right now, but other French urban centers, Bordeaux, Marseille, Lyon and Nice also introducing their own matters to try and bring their figures down.

And of course, now it's happening in Spain. In this could be something that we might see more of in the coming days and weeks on the European continent. Rather than imposing another national lockdown, the Spanish really concentrating on the city in which large numbers of cases have been rising. That was of course Madrid. Six districts in the South with the Spanish capital now on locked down. 850,000 people who are going to have to stay at home unless they're having to work, or taking their kids to school, rather like what we see in the first waive. This time applied to a single city -- Rosemary.

CHURCH: Thank you for that. And, Scott, to you now in London. Where the British government is considering another national lockdown if people don't do as they're told. What's the latest on that?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Rosemary, so the British Health Secretary says this country really is at a tipping point after it reported the most number of cases in a single day since it's had since May. So things can either get better from here as they have in Belgium, per se. Where they've instituted new rules or they can get worse, as Melissa just explain that they're getting in France and Spain.

So a week ago today the U.K. imposed new restrictions on social gathering -- the so-called rule of six. It also in some parts of the country effectively banned almost all in person socializing with people outside of your own household to try to get a better handle on this virus.

But the Health Secretary has been quite clear the British public. Follow the rules or else they'll have to come up with more harsh, more draconian restrictions, maybe even a second national lockdown, though that's obviously not his preference by any stretch.

He's also promising to get tougher on enforcing the rules that they already have, particularly on quarantine. That quarantine will no longer be just a suggestion, it will be required by law for some people. Right now the rules -- or the enforcement, I should say, is pretty lax if they're enforcing quarantine at all. One study actually found that this summer only 1/5 of people who were required to quarantine by law actually were. Not surprisingly, that was even worse for people who were on the lower end of the income spectrum. So the government now is trying to dangle a carrot, a cash incentive, for people to actually quarantine and also use a stick, for the potential for fines if they don't -- Rosemary.

CHURCH: OK, will be watching to see what happens. Scott McLean and Melissa Bell many thanks to you both.

And still to come, a political battle over Ruth Bader Ginsberg's successor is underway. We will hear more on what Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden is urging Republicans to do.

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