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New Coronavirus Cases Surge; Trump to Nominate Woman to Supreme Court; Second Lockdown Possible IN U.K.; Coronavirus Cases in Sweden Remain Low. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired September 21, 2020 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

WILLIAM HASELTINE, FORMER PROFESSOR, HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL: Very fundamental aspects of how we're handling the pandemic.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: In fact, you say that even the places that were bad in the beginning but then their -- their rates plummeted and things completely leveled out, such as where we are in New York, are, you predict, going to get bad again unless we're very careful.

HASELTINE: Right. I think some of the places -- well, there are some places, and I live in New York. I'm very hopeful that my fellow New Yorkers will remember how serious the problems were earlier on. But there's some places where things have gotten much better and are now worse than they ever were. And that is countries like France, Israel, and Spain. They're much worse than they were at their peak. And that's because people relaxed their precautions. They started going to bars. They're going to parties. They enjoyed their summer. And now they're paying for it.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: People relaxed. We see it overseas. We saw it in June in the United States. And I think the concern is we are seeing it again now. Certainly putting kids back to school, which is a choice. It may be a good choice for other reasons. That is a sign of relaxing. That is changing behavior from where we were in the spring that can contribute, or might contribute, to an increase in cases.

And, Professor Haseltine, we also know there are five states now with positivity rates higher than 15 percent. One of them is South Dakota, where they had the Sturgis motorcycle rally. Wisconsin has a positivity rate higher than 15 percent. That is alarmingly high.

HASELTINE: Right. And I think there -- there's a feeling that we can't do much about it, which isn't the case. There are now new methods that have been developed, new knowledge of this disease, which point us in a very clear direction, which I would summarize by saying, home testing and assisted home isolation. I believe if that is systemically applied, we can bring this pandemic under control without relying on what might be a partially effective and partially safe vaccine.

CAMEROTA: Admiral Giroir, who is head, of course, of the -- the testing -- well, he's on the Coronavirus and -- Task Force and head of the testing program, he talked about a vaccine this weekend. And it is so different than the timeline that President Trump has given us.

Here's Admiral Giroir.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADMIRAL BRETT GIROIR, HHS ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR HEALTH: In front of the Senate, Dr. Redfield and I both said that a vaccine that would be widely available in hundreds of millions of doses would not likely happen until mid-2021. That is a fact.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK, "widely available," that's what people want to know, when am I personally going to get the vaccine? That's what Americans want to know. Mid-2021. That's so different. I mean, you know, President Trump keeps saying next month.

HASELTINE: Well, there's a -- the difference is in -- in the language. Whether it is going to be -- the results will be revealed and when you will actually be able to get it. But there's a precedent question, will that be effective and will it be safe?

And something I want people to remember is, we've had an influenza virus vaccine for a very long time and we still have influenza. I think that that is probably an optimistic view of what a Covid vaccine is going to be. We must do something through public health measures to control it now.

We can do it. Other countries have done it. We have the capabilities. And now we have new knowledge. And so home testing with assisted home isolation, I think, is a path forward to end this before a vaccine could be available and it could happen relatively quickly if we are serious about implementing it.

BERMAN: Professor Haseltine, thank you for being with us this morning, talking about where we are and what we can do, should we choose, but so far we really haven't chosen to do things like that. Appreciate it.

HASELTINE: You're welcome. Thank you.

BERMAN: We -- we have new information this morning on the short list for the Supreme Court nomination. There are two women on your screen right now who seem to be, right now, much higher on the list than anybody else.

CAMEROTA: But you're going to keep me guessing as to which two?

BERMAN: I am going to keep you guessing. We're going to give you much more information on those two justices or two judges, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:38:08]

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC) (March 10, 2016): I want you to use my words against me. If there's a Republican president in 2016 and a vacancy occurs in the last year of the first term, you can say, Lindsey Graham said, let's let the next president, whoever it might be, make that nomination. And you could use my words against me and you'd be absolutely right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Your wish is our command, Senator Graham. That was Senator Lindsey Graham in 2016 inviting us to replay the tape after opposing President Obama's Supreme Court pick because it was an election year. Now that a Republican president is in office, it's, of course, a completely different story.

President Trump says he will nominate a woman this weekend to replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg on the Supreme Court. So who is on the short list and what do we need to know about her?

Joining us now is CNN chief legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.

Jeffrey, great to see you.

It's amazing to hear Lindsey Graham just, you know, be so adamant then and then completely flip-flop.

But that's not why we have you here. We have you here to walk us through the top contenders.

So tell us -- I mean let's just start with Amy Coney Barrett. What do we need to know about her, since it seems like she's at the top of the list at the moment?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, she was interviewed as a finalist for the Brett Kavanaugh seat. So it's obvious that she is -- was a serious candidate then and she's a serious candidate now.

She is a former professor at Notre Dame Law School and is as close as you can say to a sure vote to overturn Roe v. Wade. If you look at her academic work before she was appointed to the bench, I mean there is virtually no doubt that she would vote to overturn Roe v. Wade. She does not believe in the constitutional basis for Roe. And that's what really brought her to prominence in Republican politics.

She was controversial as a circuit court nominee.

[06:40:01]

She's nominated to the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals, confirmed narrowly in 2017. I mean she is the base's favorite candidate. And there's just really almost no doubt about how she would vote on virtually any issue.

She's, you know, a relatively new federal judge. She has voted in a conservative line, not on many hot-button issues yet. She just hasn't had them come up. But she is the base's favorite candidate.

BERMAN: I will also say, as a professor, Notre Dame Law professor, she wrote a letter criticizing Chief Justice John Roberts for his decision in the Obamacare case. So we have a sense of where she is on Obamacare, on health care, which is very important.

And that's an issue that Joe Biden has chosen to lean into right now and to try to frame this court selection to have it be about health care. It's interesting.

TOOBIN: That is true. And it's especially important because shortly after the election, one week after the election, the court will be taking up its third challenge to the existence of Obamacare. And, of course, this will be the first time that the Supreme Court considers Obamacare without Ruth Bader Ginsburg on the court, who was a more or less automatic vote for upholding Obamacare. It's very possible that the Supreme Court, after hearing the argument in the -- in this healthcare case, will do what's called putting it over, which will delay the case until there's a ninth justice. So this justice may hold the fate of Obamacare in her hands, and that's an extremely important fact to a lot of American people.

CAMEROTA: I mean timing is so critical in terms of pre-existing conditions, particularly now in this pandemic when so many people are still struggling with coronavirus, and that's a pre-existing condition.

So, let's move on --

TOOBIN: Well, I mean, and the people are -- I mean, it's not just the people who have it now, it's the people who have had it and gotten better --

CAMEROTA: Right.

TOOBIN: Who will now, if Obamacare is struck down, be able to be denied for insurance.

CAMEROTA: Bingo.

Let's talk about Barbara Lagoa. What do we need to know about that possible pick?

TOOBIN: Barbara Lagoa is a Cuban-American. She was the first Hispanic woman on the Florida Supreme Court. She's a very new federal judge. She was just confirmed to the circuit court in 2019.

Her views are less well-known on social issues. I mean she's known as a conservative. She's a former prosecutor. But she is somewhat more -- they're just -- she just -- she wasn't a law professor, so she hasn't written about a lot of issues.

She's -- she is a politically advantageous pick. She's a Hispanic from Florida. Florida, as we all know, is a crucial state to Donald Trump's re-election. She's probably somewhat easier to get through the Senate. But Republicans and conservatives are going to worry about her because her views on social issues and the kind of issues that the base cares about most are something of a mystery. And Republicans have been disappointed in the past by Anthony Kennedy, by David Souter, by Republicans whose views on social issues were less well-known, who turn out to be moderates.

BERMAN: We have some live pictures, Jeffrey, here, we want to show people. This is from the Washington, D.C., area, I believe. There are protesters near Lindsey Graham's home there, obviously. We've played sound of --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: (INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: We've played sound before of Lindsey Graham saying, you can -- you can put it in the bank. You can show the video of me promising that we will not confirm a new justice in an election year. He said it more than once and it took about 30 seconds for him to reverse that. So his word is not bond on this issue. Just wanted to show people those pictures.

Jeffrey, very quickly, one of the interesting questions to me is, I'm not sure that Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump have exactly the same goals here. And that may come to the decision between Barrett and Lagoa. Donald Trump wants to win the election, first and foremost. Mitch McConnell wants a justice, period, full stop. I'm not sure he cares as much about winning the election as about getting that justice. And so maybe one of these judges is better for Trump to win the election and another may be better to get through easily in the Senate.

TOOBIN: That's true. And if Donald Trump cares about pleasing the base, which has been the dominating theme of his presidency, he'll go with Amy Coney Barrett. If he -- if he's looking for the easier vote for Senate Republicans, he's looking -- I think Barbara Lagoa is a better choice. That -- I -- you know, they're both very conservative. They are both going to be justices very, very different from Ruth Bader Ginsburg, but as a political matter, there are differences between them.

[06:45:07]

CAMEROTA: Jeffrey Toobin, thank you very much.

TOOBIN: See you later.

CAMEROTA: Coronavirus cases are surging in Europe, but one country so far has been spared. We'll explain what they're doing, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Happening now, government officials in Britain say they are at a tipping point with coronavirus, threatening a new, national lockdown there. France, Spain, and the United Kingdom were all recording record daily increases in cases.

CNN's Scott McLean is live in London with the very latest on this increasingly bad situation, Scott. SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, John.

Yes, just as President Trump says that the U.S. is rounding the corner on its pandemic, well, British health officials say that this country has turned a corner in a bad way. Things are getting worse here.

Last week, the government imposed new restrictions on social gatherings, but a week on it's not really clear whether they're having much of an impact considering that health officials announced just within the last hour that the virus is doubling about every seven days.

[06:50:02]

And so if that trajectory continues, the U.K. could actually see more daily cases than the U.S. is seeing.

The government promised over the weekend to get tougher on the rules that are in place right now, particularly around quarantine, which are pretty laxly enforced, if they're enforced at all. The health secretary says he's trying to avoid the situation playing out right now in France and in Spain. In France, the government has imposed new rules around masks and social gatherings in cities like Bordeaux and Marseille.

In Spain, it's much worse, particularly in the capital, Madrid, which just imposed new restrictions on travel on almost a million people there. Spain has seen more than 400 deaths from the virus over the past week, but even still, government officials there are pretty reluctant to enforce anything resembling a second national lockdown for fear of doing too much damage to the economy. The same goes for the French government. And even here in the U.K. as well, where the health secretary said that a second lockdown is undoubtedly on the table, but it is a last resort.

Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Scott McLean, thank you very much for all of that reporting.

As you just heard, coronavirus cases spiking throughout Europe, particularly France and Spain, but there is one notable exception, Sweden, the only European country that did not resort to a lockdown.

CNN's Max Foster explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): No lockdown and few masks, if any at all. Sweden tends to avoid issuing mandates when voluntary guidelines are usually enough. Many here feel that approach has been vindicated by the latest pandemic numbers. After a spike in coronavirus deaths, mainly amongst the elderly, mortality is now down to normal seasonal levels. Infection rates are also falling as they surge elsewhere in Europe, where local lockdowns are still a part of the strategy. Sweden, increasingly, a shining example for American conservatives who

oppose masks and lockdown. All eyes now on how they handle the vaccine. And we already know their plan.

FOSTER (on camera): The Swedish British pharmaceuticals giant, AstraZeneca, is one of the front-runners in developing a coronavirus vaccine. If and when they succeed, adults will be advised by the health authorities here to take it, or the approved alternative, and starting with the most vulnerable. There's no real debate here about mandated vaccination.

ANDERS TEGNELL, CHIEF EPIDEMIOLOGIST: We work with voluntary vaccination during the last pandemic, and Sweden probably reached the highest rate of vaccination anywhere in the world.

FOSTER (voice over): Chief epidemiologist Anders Tegnell, known as the architect of Sweden's Covid-19 pandemic response.

Children won't be advised to take the vaccine at all, at least at first, because they aren't considered spreaders of the virus.

TEGNELL: We have very little data that they spread the disease at all, so at least in the beginning, to vaccinate children would be not the most relevant action to take. The most relevant action to take is to vaccinate people that are really at risk, which are mainly the elderly, and people working with them in health care and in social care.

FOSTER: But members of this family aren't sure they would ever take part in another vaccination program after the last one. Their 13-year- old, who doesn't want to be named, has the chronic sleep disorder narcolepsy, which his doctor says was triggered by the swine flu immunizations of 2009. A vaccine hastily rolled out in Europe at the time has been linked to an increase in cases, leading this family and others wary of vaccination.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After school, I don't have energy to do stuff. So I just go home and play video games.

FOSTER: His father says he wouldn't take another vaccine unless there was a guarantee of compensation for side effects.

ANDERS, FATHER: Yes, I think I will doubt to take it.

ZERO, STEP-MOTHER: Same. I'm his step-mother. I live with him every other week. And I see what happened to him.

FOSTER (on camera): If a vaccine suddenly appears for the virus, are you likely to take it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

FOSTER: Why not?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm scared of it, though, in the beginning, yes. So I don't -- I feel I'm strong enough without it. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I won't do it.

FOSTER: Why not?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I think it's -- it's too early. They can try first on some other people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think I'll take it.

FOSTER: Why's that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If it's safe, then -- if it helps, then why wouldn't I?

FOSTER (voice over): Sweden's national health agency says all the bodies involved in developing a new vaccine are doing everything possible to prevent dangerous side effects ever happening again.

Swedes have a reputation for following official advice on medication, without questioning it. But even here, you'll find plenty who won't be at the front of the line for a brand-new coronavirus vaccine. That raises the question of whether we'll ever be rid of this deadly and endlessly disruptive virus.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[06:55:03]

FOSTER: I did hear many conspiracy theories about vaccines in Sweden, just this concern about side effects. More than 400 mainly children and young adults actually received compensation after getting narcolepsy after that 2009 round of immunizations.

Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Really interesting to hear that, Max. Thank you very much for all of that reporting.

Well, the monumental battle to replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg is in full swing this morning. How are the key Republican senators leaning? What are they saying? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: U.S. Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died at the age of 87.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Republican leaders are plotting a full-throated effort to fill Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg's seat.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): I think it is particularly important that the Senate take it up and confirm this nomination before the election.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Daily Covid-19 cases in the U.S. have been ticking up recently.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe there's some Covid fatigue where people are just letting down their guard.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As the nation's number of lives lost closes in on 200,000.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to stay strong and do the things that could decrease the spread. And with smart testing, we can flatten the curve and slow the spread.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[07:00:03]

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

BERMAN: All right, welcome to our viewers in the United States.