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Washington Post: CIA Assessment Says Putin "Probably Directing" Influence Campaign to Denigrate Joe Biden; Louisville Police Declare State of Emergency Ahead of Decision on Breonna Taylor; Bars, Restaurants and Hospitality Venues in U.K. to Close By 10 PM Tomorrow. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired September 22, 2020 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we have breaking news. New reporting from "Washington Post" columnist Josh Rogin out minutes ago on a stunning assessment from the CIA, regarding Russian interference -- really, Russian attacks on the 2020 presidential election. Let me read you the first line as reported by Rogin in "The Post". "We assess that President Vladimir Putin, and the senior-most Russian officials are aware of and probably directing Russia's influence operations aimed at denigrating the former U.S. Vice President" -- that would be Joe Biden, "supporting the U.S. President" -- that would be Donald Trump, and fueling public discord ahead of the U.S. election in November.

Joining me now is "Washington Post" columnist Josh Rogin, who just broke that story. He is a CNN political analyst. Josh, there's a lot going on here. I'd like to break it down in parts, if we can. The first part is what I think is new to me and to the American people, the line, Vladimir Putin probably directing these attacks on Joe Biden. What do we know?

JOSH ROGIN, GLOBAL OPINION COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST: Right, thanks, John. I think what we've seen over the last month are different parts of the U.S. government acknowledging this sort of widespread influence campaign perpetrated by Ukrainian lawmaker named Andrii Derkach who happens to be pretty close friends with Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani. And the Treasury Department and the Director of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence has said publicly that he is a Russian agent.

What we didn't know before and what we now know is that the CIA working with the NSA and the FBI believe that, that whole operation, the thing that the government and media have been talking about is probably linked to Vladimir Putin directly, and probably directed by Vladimir Putin and his top aides.

According to the CIA's assessment, which was drawn from dozens of pieces of both unclassified and classified intelligence, working with the NSA and working with the FBI, in other words, all the things you've seen about the press, in the press and from the government about this Russian influence campaign, working through this Ukrainian lawmaker are probably directed and directly linked to Putin himself.

BERMAN: Putin is probably doing this. Probably orchestrating or directing attacks on the 2020 U.S. elections, specifically to denigrate Joe Biden and help Donald Trump. This is part of a CIA assessment that you write was published on August 31st, Josh. This seems to me to be the kind of thing the American people should know about. Why are we -- now, you're a terrific reporter, so, I'm not questioning why you're breaking this, but why am I only learning about this from your reporting?

[07:35:00]

ROGIN: Right, I think that's the question that a lot of Democratic lawmakers have been asking for months. If you've tracked it, there's a bunch of bits of this that have come out. There have been, you know, interviews with Giuliani, there have been -- Derkach has done YouTube videos, and Democratic leaders have been writing to FBI Director Chris Wray and asking him for classified briefings and asking the administration to release details of specific intelligence. This may be the specific intelligence they have been demanding, but the lawmakers weren't allowed to release it and the government didn't want to release it. And I assure you that when I told the government that I was going to release it, they were not happy about it.

Now, we can only speculate as to why that is, but it seems clear that this detail that the Russian President and his top aides may be personally directing this influence effort is explosive and could be damaging, not only to, you know, U.S.-Russian relations, but also the president's relationship with Russia. And you know, we can get into that if you want to. But the bottom line is that this assessment came out on August 31st. It was published on the highest level classification, top-secret, on what's called the CIA wire, the worldwide intelligence review and was very closely held and now it's out in the public and now both the U.S. government and the Russian government will have to acknowledge it and talk about what it means.

BERMAN: To be clear, it's out in the public though, only because of your reporting, not because the American people have been told about this intelligence assessment. So you said you got push-back from people as you were going to print with this. What evidence or what other evidence do you have, I guess, that the administration is trying to keep this information from going public?

ROGIN: Right, well, you know, the push-back came in two forms. One, you know, this was very -- the detail that this was probably directed by Vladimir Putin and his top aides wasn't highly classified and I guess still is highly classified. And also, the sources and methods, which I have kept out of this article at the request of these agencies reveal just how much we really know about this influence operation. And it's a lot.

There are dozens and dozens of pieces of intelligence that I won't go into right now, that sort of map out what the government knows about this. Again, you could see a lot of it in the public space, and you could see bits of it coming from Congress and bits of it coming from different parts of the media, especially the pro-Trump media. And what the document basically says is that, Derkach has used U.S. politicians, U.S. lawmakers, prominent figures close to the --

BERMAN: Yes --

ROGIN: President, doesn't name Giuliani, but he seems to be talking about Giuliani, and U.S. media organizations to disseminate and amplify his influence campaign. So, what they're doing, what the Russians are doing is they're using Americans to launder and to amplify this disinformation to denigrate Joe Biden. And you know, that's a very serious, shocking, maybe not surprising, but you know, significant attack on our democracy, on our political system, and, you know -- but I think that's why it was so closely held at the top levels of government --

BERMAN: I got -- I've got a couple of more questions here and I certainly hope we have the time. Andrii Derkach is a Ukrainian lawmaker who Rudy Giuliani proudly, openly has a relationship with. Giuliani; the president's lawyer is meeting with someone that has -- is deemed to be by U.S. Intelligence, a Russian agent, correct? What am I missing about why--

ROGIN: Yes, exactly --

BERMAN: Isn't this -- isn't this as shocking as it sounds on its face?

ROGIN: Oh, it's completely shocking and kind of crazy when you think about it. This dates back to the impeachment last December. When Rudy Giuliani traveled to Kiev and met with a lot of Ukrainians, many associated with the pro-Russian party in an effort to dig up dirt on Biden and to promote his allegations that the Democrat -- that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election on behalf of the Democrats, and one of the Ukrainians he was working with was Derkach. And you know, two weeks ago, when the Treasury Department named Derkach as a Russian foreign agent, Rudy Giuliani told "The New York Times", he said, well, I don't know, you know, he doesn't seem like a Russian agent, his quote was, "how the hell would I know?"

Well, you know, now, we know that for sure. And you know, it becomes harder and harder for people like Rudy Giuliani to deny. But it's in the public record he's been working with this guy for about ten months, very publicly. Now, the assessment itself doesn't say -- this is important. The assessment itself doesn't say that Rudy Giuliani knew he was a Russian agent, it just says that he was -- that these Russian agents were working with Americans. In other words, Rudy Giuliani, according to the assessment could have been a target of the influence campaign, not, you know, a direct conspirator. The assessment doesn't accuse him of that directly.

BERMAN: Look, the sentence that stands on its own, Rudy Giuliani working with a Russian agent in and of itself should be of concern, I think to people. Now, the big-picture --

ROGIN: That's true --

[07:40:00] BERMAN: Question, Josh is, what does Vladimir Putin want and what is he getting out of this? And let me give some context to this because at the White House yesterday -- and we have the sound of this, President Trump was asked to comment, which he never has, to comment on the poisoning of Russian opposition leader Navalny. Let's play that exchange if we have it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who do you think poisoned Alexei Navalny in Russia?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We'll talk about that at another time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Wow, so begging off that when it is believed, again, by U.S. Intelligence and European Intelligence that it was the Russian government that poisoned the opposition leader. What is Vladimir Putin getting out of this? What does it say to you that again, within the last 24 hours, the president there refusing to say something even moderately critical of Putin and Russia?

ROGIN: Right, it seems pretty clear and pretty obvious, and this is supported by the testimony of Chris Wray last week in the house that President Vladimir Putin wants President Trump to get re-elected, because he thinks President Trump's policies are better for Russian interest than the alternative, Joe Biden. And you know, that's pretty much the same dynamic that played out in 2016. And you know -- and when you see President Trump sort of backing off criticism of Russia, again, we can only speculate, some people think the Russians have something on him.

It could be just as simple as that he likes this support and you know, he doesn't want to bite the hand that's feeding him. And you know, in a way, it's a replay of 2016, where you have a foreign government supporting Trump against the Democrats. And the Trump campaign basically saying that they have nothing to do with it. But at the same time, not doing everything they can to expose it, tell the American people about it and put a stop to it.

BERMAN: Josh Rogin, the headline, an assessment from the CIA that Vladimir Putin is probably directing attacks meant to denigrate Vice President Joe Biden and help President Donald Trump. We only know about it because of your reporting. Thank you for being with us this morning.

ROGIN: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: All right, other news this morning. The city of Louisville, Kentucky, bracing for a decision on the fate of the police officers in the killing of Breonna Taylor. We're there live with the latest, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:45:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: The city of Louisville, Kentucky, declaring a state of emergency as it awaits a decision by the attorney general in the Breonna Taylor case. Taylor was a 26-year-old ER technician fatally shot in March by police while executing a no-knock warrant on her house. CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is live in Louisville. So Shimon, what's happening at this hour?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Alisyn, you can see behind me, signs already that police here are preparing for this announcement from the attorney general, who has been presenting the case before a grand jury here. The police, as you said, are operating under a state of emergency, closing streets. This is downtown here in Louisville, right by the courthouse. Stores around us have also boarded up, all across downtown Louisville. Of course, everyone is hoping for whatever the outcome is, that there are peaceful gatherings, peaceful protests, but the city here not taking any chances.

The police here not taking any chances. As you see, they've started to close streets off. They've also canceled days off for officers across Louisville. So, they want -- canceled all vacations, they want to make sure they have enough officers on the street as a decision comes in, which could be any day now, where it is expected as early as this week, the attorney general will announce it. The family will get some notification from the attorney general, and then the attorney general will reveal the results of the grand jury investigation. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: OK, Shimon, please keep us posted as to what happens there today. Thank you very much. Well, the British Prime Minister is outlining new restrictions to try to control a dangerous coronavirus resurgence there. We're live in London, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:50:00]

BERMAN: All right, happening now, we have live pictures from the House of Commons in London where the British Prime Minister Boris Johnson was addressing the members there and announcing new coronavirus restrictions. That country is experiencing a new surge in cases. CNN's Scott McLean live in London with the very latest here. Scott.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, John, yes. A second national lockdown in this country is this government's last resort. And so in order to prevent that, new restrictions have been announced fast and furious. Last week, it was restrictions on the number of people allowed in a social gathering, and British Prime Minister Boris Johnson just finished up a speech where he announced some more. Pubs will have to close beginning tomorrow early, plans to get fans back in soccer stadiums have been put on hold indefinitely, and most importantly, he said that if you have the ability to work from home, you should. And this is a massive reversal from the message that the government was sending out just a month ago where they were saying, let's get the economy back open, let's get workers back into their offices. Not anymore.

And that's because the U.K. has just upgraded the COVID threat level to the second highest level which means the transmission of the virus is high or even exponential. Young people have really fueled this resurgence of the virus, but the number of cases is actually rising across all different age groups. In fact, new cases are doubling every seven days, and if that rate were to continue for just four weeks, this country would be seeing some 50,000 new cases per day.

That's more than you're seeing in the United States. And the U.K. has just one-fifth of the population. The Prime Minister though is going to have to sell this plan to the British public. He's planning a special televised address this morning, and the British public has become quite accustomed to its relative new found freedom over the Summer where restrictions have been relaxed. So, yes, a bit of a -- a bit of a challenge ahead of them. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Understood, Scott, thank you very much for that breaking news. Joining us now is the former British Ambassador to the United States, lord Kim Darroch. He resigned after his blunt assessment of the Trump administration was leaked last year. His new book outlines all that's happened, "Collateral Damage: Britain, America and Europe in the Age of Trump". Ambassador Darroch, thanks for being here.

KIM DARROCH, FORMER BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: Thank you for inviting me, Alisyn. I used to listen to you and John every morning when I was in Washington, so it's great to hear you again.

CAMEROTA: And now you can watch us every afternoon in the U.K.

[07:55:00]

DARROCH: Well, thanks for tipping me off. I'll start to.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: I want to start with that breaking news that Scott McLean just reported which is the new restrictions that we're seeing in Britain and that Boris Johnson, the Prime Minister just announced that they would be in place for the next six months. At the same time, there's this new Pew Research poll that shows people in 13 countries -- they surveyed people in 13 countries, 85 percent of them think the U.S. has done a lousy job with dealing with coronavirus. But I mean, it sounds like the U.K. is doing no better of a job.

DARROCH: It really feels, Alisyn, like the second wave is looming over us, and, you know, the three month lockdown earlier this year was pretty tough. And the government will do everything it can to avoid a second national lockdown. The measures like this curfew, closing all the bars and restaurants and pubs at 10:00 p.m., and saying to people just a month after they were told to go back to work, work from home if you can, it feels like we're going back into something that will be close to another lockdown. And I think people will find this hugely depressing after the sacrifices of the lockdown. As for -- I mean, we all look at the figures for what's happening elsewhere in the world, and it feels like France and Spain are back into second wave -- feels like you're still in the first wave. But this thing isn't going away.

CAMEROTA: Yes, and you're so right, and obviously, people, when they hear about new restrictions, it just adds to the stress and depression as you point out. But I want to show you one other thing from the Pew Research poll. This shows how the view from the U.K. of the U.S. has plummeted over the years. So in 2000, 83 percent held a positive view of the U.S. Now, today, in 2020, that is down to 41 percent. It is lower as you can see on this graph than the time that -- in the lead-up to the Iraq war when so many Brits were opposed to that. And so why? Why is this the lowest?

DARROCH: Look, I think there's no question, but your president is a controversial figure and he said things like the EU is worse than China. Well, maybe also that doesn't -- that doesn't cover us, but people have watched how the pandemic has hit the U.S. They have watched what happened in Portland and in Kenosha and other places, and you know, everyone is now watching what feels like a very bitter election campaign. So you're in the news all the time over here -- doesn't mean the president isn't without his strong supporters over here and elsewhere in Europe. But, you know -- but there's a lot of controversy that has attached itself to the United States over the last four years.

CAMEROTA: I want to talk about some of the controversy that surrounded you and what happened. As an ambassador, you were tasked with sending back your frank assessment of the new administration to the leaders back at home so they would know what they were dealing with and you did that. You wrote a cable in 2017 in which you said, "we really don't believe this administration, the Trump administration is going to become substantially more normal, less dysfunctional, less unpredictable, less faction-riven, less diplomatically clumsy and inept." First, how did you know that? What were you basing that on? When you gave that assessment, what had been your observations back in 2017 that you sent that back?

DARROCH: You know, Alisyn, when I wrote that, which I would say, it was six months into the administration. We were talking a lot to people in the administration, to the White House, and you know, it wasn't difficult to talk to people in the White House. We were following what all of you guys in the U.S. media were picking up, and there was a huge amount of leaks and briefing coming out of the White House at the time. We were talking to our diplomatic colleagues around Washington and trying to put it all together.

And the key in reporting to ministers is they haven't got lots of time to read all the 100 other handles, trying to work their way through some loyal-like code, you tell it like it is, make the best call you can in the sharpest and most concise language that you can. One of the things I've noticed in talking to American friends since the book -- what's -- extracts of the book were coming out of the newspapers is Brits say to me, how could you be so rude and so critical of the president? Americans say to me sometimes, how could you be so mild about it?

[08:00:00]

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