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New Day

Dr. Fauci Warns Cases Too High Heading into Winter Flu Season; Cindy McCain Endorses Joe Biden. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired September 23, 2020 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: Welcome our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is New Day.

Coronavirus cases in the country, the number is too high, as we are heading into the winter flu season, and the result could be catastrophic. That warning is coming from Dr. Anthony Fauci.

22 states are seeing a rise in cases this morning. You can see those are the cases in red. The cases in beige are flat lining and we're flat lining at a troubling number, says Dr. Fauci.

The U.S. reported nearly 40,000 new cases yesterday, 40,000. You can see the seven-day moving average has started to creep up. 40,000 is a number Dr. Fauci calls unacceptable. He wanted us to be below 10,000 cases a day by now. And you can see by this graph, we are far, far from that.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN NEW DAY: Also, CNN has learned that the FDA is considering stricter guidelines before releasing a coronavirus vaccine. That would push the timeline past Election Day. It's not clear whether the White House will respond to this.

Also developing this morning, the FBI warning about foreign actors that, quote, spread false information in an attempt to discredit the electoral process and undermine confidence in U.S. democratic institutions.

BERMAN: Sound familiar?

CAMEROTA: I guess you don't have to be a foreign actor to do some of those things.

BERMAN: I know. And David Sanger is reporting that foreign actors are having an easy go of it. They're able to stay at home and just re- tweet the things that the president says because he is actively and aggressively, rhetorically trying to undermine the credibility of the U.S. elections.

CAMEROTA: They're working from home.

But let's start with coronavirus. CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now. Hi, Sanjay, great to see you.

So Dr. Fauci is really trying to warn Americans. I mean, he is -- in his understated way, he really is trying to sound the alarm that 40,000 cases as we head into the winter. I mean, we were supposed to have this respite during the summer where we could really lower our cases, but somehow we missed an opportunity to do that.

And now as we head into the winter and people are going inside again, 40,000 cases a day, what does that mean?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, it basically says that if the plateau is this high right now, the idea that it could start to go into what is known as exponential growth, not linearly sort of increasing, but suddenly start to spike up is the real concern. You have that much virus already circulating and then you start to add in these other factors like indoors, the colder weather, these things increase viral spread. This is a point that Dr. Fauci has made for some time.

And, frankly, we've seen in other viral outbreaks as well, even if you go back to 1918, actually, during this sort of time period, they were actually able to bring the numbers down pretty significantly. But it was the second wave back in 1918, which sort of corresponds with this time period in the fall where you had that sort of devastating second wave of illness and death, you know, close to 195,000 people died in a single month back then.

So those are terrible numbers to think about or consider, but, you know, that's the closest sort of model we have to right now. And I think that that's what's really worrisome for anybody following this from a viral dynamic standpoint.

BERMAN: You talk about a baseline. It may very well be that the number of new cases have started to tick back upwards again. We're watching very closely. And just so we can put the chart back up on the screen so people can see, this is the seven-day moving average of new cases in the United States and the graph has bent upwards again as we head into September. And that, I think, is why Dr. Fauci in his really fascinating interview with you yesterday, Sanjay, was leaning so hard into that, because I think everybody was worried about that.

If I can get your take, Sanjay, on a bit of other news that has developed overnight, CNN has matched some Washington Post reporting that the FDA is considering new guidelines on emergency vaccine approval. And this is significant. And I'm going to give you the top line here. They would require two months from the last dose. The average participant in these trials would have to have two months of a waiting period after taking the last dose of vaccine before the FDA could grant emergency use.

So, two questions, Sanjay. One, first, explain exactly what that means in terms of why, why they would have that wait and what does it mean in terms of the calendar?

[07:05:00] GUPTA: Yes. No, this is a very good and interesting point. I think the question for some time has been, okay, you give, in this case, this vaccine, this injection into the arm. For most of these trials, it's two shots, so one shot and then followed 28 days later or so by a second shot, and the question is then, how long do you wait to basically say it is safe.

The effectiveness part, you're sort of saying, are people getting infected or not, but the safety part was always a bit of a question mark. And that's what the FDA sort of zeroed in on here, saying, two months is a reasonable amount of time to wait to see if people are developing side effects.

I've got to tell you, this is not surprising to me when I spoke to Moncef Slaoui, who is the Chief Adviser to Operation Warp Speed. I was asking about the same things, well, how do you deem something safe in a situation like this. And listen to what he said. This was from a couple of weeks ago.

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MONCEF SLAOUI, CHIEF ADVISER, OPERATION WARP SPEED: If you look into the databases of the FDA on the overwhelming majority of adverse events associated with vaccines happen within the first -- actually, I was told 42 days after completing the immunization regimen and maybe two months after completing -- it doesn't mean things may not happen way after, it could, extremely rare.

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GUPTA: So there you go. I mean, this idea, they went back into the FDA database and said, okay, let's look at previous vaccines. When do the majority of side effects occur if they're going to occur at all, and he said 42 days to two months. That's sort of the timeframe. I think they're applying that now when they go back and look at these vaccine protocols. They're applying that as a way to measure safety.

CAMEROTA: Sanjay, tell us about what Johnson & Johnson is announcing. They have the fourth vaccine in the U.S. to enter phase three trials, but theirs is different.

GUPTA: Yes. So -- and I spoke to the head of the vaccine project, you know, in Amsterdam some time ago and this sort of fits exactly with their timeline. They thought by sort of middle September, they would be going into phase three trials.

A couple of things. First of all, it's different than, for example, the mRNA vaccine, this sort of genetic-based vaccine. Johnson is using an adenovirus, so it's more similar to the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine. It's one dose, not two doses. So that could be interesting.

And I think, obviously, there's a lot of enthusiasm around this. If you could give one dose, it would not only make the timeline potentially faster, ultimately, but also the idea of distributing two doses to everybody -- it's hard enough to distribute one dose. Two doses could make it more significantly harder. So one dose would be promising, the timeline could be pretty advanced, and there's a lot of enthusiasm around this vaccine. They are just now going into phase three trials. They're going to do 60,000 people all over the world. They're picking places where the virus is most likely to be circulating. So that's the United States, that's Argentina, that's Brazil, that's Peru. It's a large crowd.

We've been keeping a close eye on this one. And, again, they're just now going into phase three. So their calendar, to your question earlier, will be backed up even a little bit more.

BERMAN: Sanjay, if I can just go back to the FDA for one second and put a finer point on what this means for the calendar, if you're talking an average of two months from receiving the second dose of the vaccine, by my math, that puts it easily into, at best, or at soonest, mid-November, I would think, which is after Election Day. Am I reading that correctly? And what concerns do you have that, given that reality, given the reality of the calendar there, that there might be pushback, political pushback, from within the administration on this?

GUPTA: Yes. Sorry, John, I didn't answer that part of your question earlier. You're absolutely right. I mean, we've been following the trials, looking at when the enrollment will be completed. Some patients got their doses, their second dose, even, end of last month, early this month. But the majority of people still will push this -- you know, the majority of people who are getting their second shot, the calendar will be pushed probably into late November, early December, to really give that two-month window.

But, John, you know, I mean, what does it mean, ultimately? There has been so much back and forth and pressure on these agencies, including the FDA, including the CDC, that today, even as we listen to these hearings, I'm going to be really curious to see how the FDA sort of answers that question. What does it mean for the timeline, because this obviously is at odds with what we've been hearing from the president, and we know the president watches these hearings very closely.

I hope that they stick to their guns on this, because it matches the data. It matches the FDA's own data. People want to have some confidence that it's a safe vaccine. And even after the two months, by the way, there still could be side effects, although admittedly much rarer.

[07:10:04]

So I'm really looking to see do they really -- do they loosen up the language? Well, maybe two months, maybe a month-and-a-half, we'll see whether they really stick to it. That's something I'm really going to be listening for today.

BERMAN: Yes, that would be fascinating, Sanjay, and that's a great tease for these hearings today. All the major public health officials will be testifying before Congress today. And this really does -- this new reporting started by The Post that CNN has confirmed and pushed for ourselves really does raise the stakes for that testimony later this morning.

Sanjay, thank you very much for being with us.

CAMEROTA: Thousands of people are expected to honor Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg at the Supreme Court today and more than a hundred of her former clerks will stand guard by the legendary justice.

CNN's Ariane de Vogue live at the Supreme Court with more. So, tell us what you're expecting, Ariane.

ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT REPORTER: Right. When Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg returns here for the final time, more than a hundred of her former clerks, an army of her clerks will greet the casket and accompany up those stone steps. This place is rooted in history and tradition. And the tradition is, is that the former clerks stand guard over the casket while it's here.

They say that clerking for Justice Ginsburg was a lesson in law for sure, but it was also a lesson in life. For instance, I talked to one prominent attorney who said she felt emboldened to leave her job for a while because Ginsburg always said, you can have it all, but maybe not at the same time.

Another said, one of her favorite pieces of advice from Ginsburg, and I remember this myself, hearing it in speeches, was that in work and in marriage, sometimes it helps to be a little bit deaf.

Another clerk said that she came in 1999 for her first day of the term and Ginsburg had just been diagnosed for the first time with cancer. So the clerk thought that Ginsburg wouldn't show up. But, of course, she called first thing in the morning and said, please call the chief and tell him I'll be there.

So, Ginsburg will be here for a final time, a place where she worked for almost 30 years. There will be a private ceremony and then her casket will be brought outside for this public memorial. But you know, she continued to work until the end of her life, communicating with these clerks, Alisyn, but also inspiring them.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh, Ariane, she's so dogged, I mean, in her determination in work and, of course, in her health battles. I mean, she's just such a role model in terms of that kind of determination. Thank you very much.

DE VOGUE: Thanks.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Where is the health care plan that President Trump promised to release in July? Well, overnight, the vice president promised something a little different. We'll tell you.

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[07:15:00]

BERMAN: So new this morning, Cindy McCain, the widow of longtime Republican senator and 2008 Republican presidential nominee, John McCain, has announced she is endorsing Joe Biden. And seconds ago, we heard from her out loud for the very first time. Listen.

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CINDY MCCAIN, WIFE OF JOHN MCCAIN: Joe Biden represents to me the kinds of values and integrity and courage that we want in a president. And someone who is -- has -- I think would have my back as a citizen and someone who lives in a neighborhood and has a family and all the other things that people do. I want to feel like my president cares about me and cares about this country, and Joe Biden does.

We've -- I've known Joe for over 40 years and I know the kind of man that he is. And I'm just so deeply honored to be a part of this and I look forward to talking to people about who he is and what he stands for and the kind of courage he has exemplified during the years.

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BERMAN: Joining us now is CNN Political Director, David Chalian. David, it was interesting hearing her in her own word. We learned overnight she was going to do the endorsement, but now we learned how she's doing the endorsement. She told us she's going to work for Joe Biden, which is interesting. She's going to go out there and campaign, she suggests. And also the message she was sending, Joe Biden is someone that cares about you.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Precisely. I mean, right before that sound bite you played in that interview I was watching before coming on here with you guys, she said -- when asked why she's doing this, she said, because I've been watching what's going on over the last three and a half years.

So she clearly is drawing a contrast on character between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. We saw much of that kind of contrast on display during the Democratic National Convention when we saw a bunch of other high- profile Republicans come out and speak on Joe Biden's behalf, trying to create a permission structure for Republican voters in the country, who may not be used to marking their ballot for a Democratic presidential nominee, that it's okay to do so. And I think that's the way in which the Biden campaign intends to use Cindy McCain's support.

CAMEROTA: And it's interesting. I mean, she says that she was motivated by what President Trump has widely been reported to have said from The Atlantic to Fox News, a report that he has more than once referred to soldiers, prisoners of war, fallen soldiers as suckers, why do they do it, what's in it for them, things like that. And so while she has never been a fan of President Trump, now she's activated.

CHALIAN: Yes. I mean, the military service in the McCain family is well known, obviously, for generations. And there's doubt that those words would be haunting to Cindy McCain in her assessment of Donald Trump and what she may want to do here, and I think activated is the right word, Alisyn.

Again, I think we should be careful about any one endorsement being able to really sway a ton of votes or have an enormous impact electorally, but we all know, Arizona is going to be a critical battleground state in this election. That's clearly where she is best known in the country because of her husband's service representing Arizona in the United States Senate.

[07:20:08]

And so the ability -- you heard her talking about family and being in your neighborhood and the ability for her to sort of put herself in the shoes of many female voters, suburban voters, out in Arizona, that's only a good kind of surrogate to have if you're the Biden campaign.

BERMAN: And, again, if she suggests she will be campaigning, however one does campaign in the coronavirus era, if she's going to go out and work, even more interesting.

David, I want to talk about health care, because the president has not put forward a health care plan. And the plans he has endorsed over the last several years would eliminate protections for pre-existing conditions, would eliminate guarantees that people with pre-existing conditions could get health care the same price as everyone else.

He has promised that he would come forward with a plan. In July, he said it was two weeks away, that was ten weeks ago, at this point. But you do get the sense that the administration and the campaign knows it has a problem because Mike Pence now says this. Listen.

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MIKE PENCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: In the days ahead, I wouldn't anticipate that the president will be taking some action under his executive branch authority to make it clear to every American that those that are facing pre-existing conditions will be covered under insurance plans, they will not be denied coverage.

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BERMAN: They will be covered now under Obamacare, which his administration is fighting to overturn, David.

CHALIAN: Right. I mean, we should just be crystal clear about that, right? I mean, as we speak, as Mike Pence said those words, the administration is fighting in court to actually strip away protections for those with pre-existing conditions, because they want to gut entirety of Obamacare. They want it completely removed.

So they're looking for a political fig leaf here because they understand that's one of the most popular provisions, although, overall, Obamacare, as you know, is more popular than not after all of these years that it's been in place. But that is one of the most popular provisions.

Call me a little dubious, John. I don't understand exactly what an executive order can look like that can actually accomplish this goal of protecting people with pre-existing conditions. BERMAN: It's nonsense. It accomplishes a signing ceremony. It accomplishes a signing ceremony. It would take a new law in order to actually protect people with pre-existing conditions and guarantee the community rating (ph) and all that. This is a political stunt but it does show they know they have some vulnerability, right?

CAMEROTA: And they will do it. I mean, David, let's be clear, something will happen before the election because President Trump knows that he has to come up with something. He keeps promising this beautiful new plan every minute now, and so he likes the reveal. Obviously, he will do something in October that looks like a plan but may not be sound, I guess you're saying.

CHALIAN: Yes. I mean, he did something after the extension of unemployment benefits, right, the federal piece of that ran out, but that's already gone. I don't think, you know, having a press event is one thing, actually having impact on American's lives is an entirely different thing.

CAMEROTA: President Trump, again, goes after Congresswoman Ilhan Omar. He wasn't in her home state. I guess he's just playing the hits at this point. I mean, he's just at his rallies playing the hateful hits.

CHALIAN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Yes, go ahead. I was going to play it. I'm struggling right now, actually, with whether play it, because it's so insulting and sort of gratuitous and unnecessary, basically. I'll just read a little bit of it so we don't have to actually hear it.

He says, how did you do where you came from? How is your country doing? She is trying to tell us how to run our country. Here is Ilhan Omar's response via Twitter. She says, firstly, this is my country. I am a member of the House that impeached you. Secondly, I fled civil war when I was eight. An eight-year-old doesn't run a country, even though you run our country like one.

CHALIAN: The notion that the president of the United States can speak about anyone that way, but an American that way, as if to make them other and different than other Americans, it's just, as you said, totally insulting. Also, politically, guys, show me where this is working for him. This is the most confounding thing about Donald Trump when you say he's playing the hits of hateful speech in a way to rally the folks in front of him, in a way that he thinks his base is going to come alive.

His base is alive. Donald Trump cannot get re-elected with just his base. He needs more, just like he needed more than that in 2016, and he got it. He edged Hillary Clinton ahead with independents. He edged her ahead in the suburbs. He needed to go slightly beyond just his base in order to win the presidency. He needs to do the same to get re-elected. This rhetoric is exactly why he's having struggles getting a vote beyond his base.

[07:25:06] BERMAN: Message to first generation Americans, this is not your country, which is quite a message from the president of the United States.

David Chalian, thank you, as always, for being with us.

CHALIAN: Sure.

BERMAN: Coronavirus cases on the rise in 22 states at exactly the wrong time, as the winter and flu season approaches. We're going to talk about the specific risks that winter poses and some ideas about how you can prepare yourself, next.

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DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: We're entering into fall and into the winter. And that means there's going to be more indoor things than outdoor things. And going into that situation, I would like to have seen the baseline of where we are, the daily number of infections come way, way down and not be stuck at around 30 to 40,000 per day, which is where it is right now.

That's unacceptable and that's what we've got to get down before we go into the more problematic winter.

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[07:30:04]

BERMAN: Dr. Anthony Fauci sounding the alarm on the number of daily cases of coronavirus.