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Doctor Dies after Battle with Coronavirus; Johnson under Fire in U.K.; Louisville Braces for Taylor Decision. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired September 23, 2020 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

DR. TIMOTHY SHUB, RESIDENT PHYSICIAN, STONY BROOK UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: And we both got better. So we thought Adeline would get better too. But, unfortunately, that wasn't really the case for her. It kind of just kept getting worse and worse to the point where we had to go back to the hospital. And after that I mean she didn't -- she didn't leave.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

SHUB: After that.

CAMEROTA: Tiffany, tell us about her. I mean she sounds so special. Obviously, medical school is a grueling time for all of you to become friends and, you know, to do your studies. But she always went the extra mile. I mean we see pictures of her. You know, she was always, it sounds like, helping other people as well.

DR. TIFFANY LIN, FRIEND OF DR. ADELINE FAGAN SINCE MEDICAL SCHOOL: And that's exactly right. Since we knew Addie (ph), she always told us that it only takes a moment of kindness and a gesture to make someone feel better. And she definitely proved that throughout medical school and as a person. You know, even were you were a stranger or her loved one, she had this really unique gift of making sure that you felt truly cared for, that you, as a person, mattered. And I remember in medical school that, you know, she told us she made it her mission to get to know and at least speak to every person in our class. She wanted to make sure that she can identify every single person and be like, yes, I've spoken to them. She even went on what she called friend dates to get to know some of our classmates. Even with her patients, I knew that so many people have loved her as a student doctor, as a doctor, because she treated them as a person. She would sit down and talk to them for extra amounts of time just getting to know them, knowing their hobbies, their hopes and their fears, not just their symptoms.

CAMEROTA: I mean, Timothy, about these friend dates, who has time for that? To, you know, make time for strangers?

SHUB: Well, I mean, Addie sure did make time, you know? She valued happiness and a long -- on par with her studies. That was very important to her. And just meeting people and getting to know them. And that's honestly how we each met her and grew close to her is these friend dates and eventually we all just started hang out together. And, you know, having friends should be just as important as studying.

You know, mental health is just as important as physical health and that's very important in medical school as well.

CAMEROTA: And, Catherine, what was she like with patients?

DR. CATHERINE DE GUZMAN, RESIDENT PHYSICIAN, MAIMONIDES MEDICAL CENTER: Just amazing. She was pretty much my role model and who I wanted to become. The patience that she had for everyone, the empathy, the thoughtfulness, the kindness, just like going above and beyond her patients, her family, her friends. She's just like someone I wanted to be. Someone I still strive to be.

CAMEROTA: And so it must have been so hard, Tiffany, to see her sick.

LIN: You know, the four of us had FaceTime with her when she was in the hospital. And seeing her like that really broke our hearts. But we tried to stay strong for her because we wanted to be able to be there for her during these times. And every day when she was in the hospital, she had texted us to give us updates because we wanted to make sure that she was doing OK. And eventually when she got intubated, that's when the texts stopped.

And, you know, we -- we still continued to text her because we wanted to -- we wanted her to know that when she did wake up, that she had messages from us sending it to her because we loved her and we would update her on, you know, what had happened in the world that she might have missed. So it's just been really difficult to see what had happened.

CAMEROTA: Gosh, it's really -- it's just really, really heartbreaking to imagine that.

And, Timothy, I mean could she -- before she was intubated, could she communicate still with you guys when you were FaceTiming?

SHUB: Yes, absolutely she could (INAUDIBLE) had something called itho- oxygen (ph) on, which is basically these two prongs in your nose that could deliver oxygen at really high rates. And she would -- and she -- we did a Zoom call, the four of us, like Tiffany said, and she would sound like she'd have a stuffed nose almost because she couldn't breathe through her nose. And we -- we talked and we just kind of chatted about everything and how she was doing and, you know, how -- you know, being in the hospital was like. So she definitely could communicate. If not that, then she definitely did text us all the time.

CAMEROTA: And, Catherine, is there any lesson here that we're supposed to take from all of this pain?

DE GUZMAN: (INAUDIBLE) from the coronavirus, I think one of the biggest lessons that I learned is tell your loved ones that you love them because you really never know when the last day, your last chance to tell them.

And then in regards to the coronavirus, take it seriously. If you don't wear a mask, if you're not social distancing, you could be affecting on of your own personal loved ones or someone else's Addie.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Thank you for the remainder from both of those things.

[08:35:02]

Catherine, Timothy, Tiffany, thank you all for sharing your memories and thank you for the work that you're doing as doctors as well. We really appreciate you.

LIN: Thank you.

SHUB: Thank you very much.

DE GUZMAN: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson is warning of an unquestionably difficult winter in the U.K. Johnson just announced new restrictions with the virus now resurging across that country.

CNN's Nic Robertson live in London.

And, Nic, the prime minister has come under some sharp criticism for his handling of this pandemic for months.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: He has and that doesn't seem to be shifting. Last night he announced that bars, pubs, restaurants will close at 10:00 p.m. People could only have a table service, food, at such establishments. Yet one of his most senior ministers was on television this morning, asked the question, do you get table service or do you go up to the counter to order at McDonald's and other places like that?

[08:40:02]

The minister couldn't give a straight answer. And this has been indicative of the criticisms and complaints about how the government and Boris Johnson has been handling this so far.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Well, I shook hands with everybody, you'll be pleased to know.

ROBERTSON (voice over): Boris Johnson seems slow to grasp Covid-19's speed and scale.

JOHNSON: You must stay at home.

ROBERTSON: And when he did, the damage was done. Britain's deaths, the worst in Europe.

JOHNSON: I want people to go back to work.

ROBERTSON: Desperate to help the ailing economy, he was quick to call for a return to work, but Covid-19 wasn't gone and his government's conflicting messages ridiculed as confusing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are seeing, don't go to work, go to work, don't take public transport, go to work, don't go to work.

ROBERTSON: One damning headline followed another. Criticized for a litany of failures from the late lockdown to shortages of PPE, care home deaths, shortages of tests, a bungled return to school and exam grades fiasco, his chief adviser busting lockdown regulations and keeping his job.

MATTHEW PARRIS, LONDON TIMES COLUMNIST AND FORMER CONSERVATIVE MP: He has often sounded upbeat, done a great deal in his after-dinner speech kind of way to encourage us, it's all going to be great by Christmas, and then fallen down and constant overpromising.

JOHNSON: We are not seeing a second wave coming in.

ROBERTSON: Cases doubling each week. Some of the same problems, repeated.

ROBERTSON (on camera): The government promised a world-class test and trace system. It's been falling short. I'm just trying to book a test. Some people have been sent hundreds of miles to get theirs. Ah, there's a problem. This is one of the reasons why people have been losing confidence in Johnson and his ministers.

JOHNSON: Expanding the use of face coverings, new fines for those that fail to comply.

ROBERTSON (voice over): And only now getting tough on using facemasks. Yet, through it all Johnson trying to do the right thing.

JOHNSON: For the time being, this virus is a fact of our lives. And I must tell the house and the country that our fight against it will continue.

ROBERTSON: The nation on a knife edge, a second blow to the economy could be devastating to the U.K. and to Johnson.

ROBERTSON (on camera): How long can he last?

PARRIS: I would give him 30, 40 percent chance that he will fall in the next 12 to 18 months.

ROBERTSON: Johnson styles himself on Winston Churchill, whose wisdom and rhetoric carried the country through World War II, but in the nation's biggest challenge since Johnson stumbled, his upbeat charisma insufficient to combat Covid-19.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: And the questions are continuing. A lot of people, experts, are looking at what Boris Johnson said last night and wondering, is it really enough to combat what his scientists are saying could happen by late October, 50,000 infections of people seriously ill.

BERMAN: Yes, part of the season of concern all around the world.

Nic Robertson, thanks so much for that report. Appreciate it.

So we are awaiting an announcement of possible charges against the police officers in the killing of Breonna Taylor. It could come at any time. We're live in Louisville, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:47:38]

CAMEROTA: Louisville, Kentucky, is on edge this morning, awaiting an announcement from the attorney general on whether the police officers involved in Breonna Taylor's death will be charged.

CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is live in Louisville with more.

What's the situation, Shimon?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Alisyn, so we're inside Jefferson Square Park. And as you can see behind me, this has been the vigil that protesters and demonstrators here have set up and have been here for months waiting to see if any charges are going to be filed against the officers.

The city is tense. And as you can see around me, there are concrete blockades that have been placed around this area. Trucks have been placed to prevent cars. Police are not allowing any cars through this area. And most of this area -- and most of downtown, Alisyn, has been boarded up.

We could get the decision from the grand jury at any moment. At this point, the attorney general, we've been told the grand jury has been hearing evidence, and now we all, as this city and as this country really await the decision here from the grand jury on whether or not they're going to charge any of the officers that were involved in this shooting. And most of the day people come here, they spend the day here waiting for news. The city waits and we await the decision from the grand jury here today perhaps.

John.

BERMAN: We're all waiting.

Shimon Prokupecz, thank you very much.

Joining us now, CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Laura Coates. Also with us, CNN law enforcement analyst Charles Ramsey. He's the former Philadelphia police commissioner and former Washington, D.C., police chief.

Laura Coates, first to you. What is the legal bar here? What is the consideration that this grand

jury is making about whether to press charges?

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, they're going to look at the different statutes for killing in Kentucky that range from anywhere from first degree, which is intentional murder, meaning it was planned or had what they call malice or forethought, all the way down to reckless. And -- and going between those things is about knowing the intent, but about the perceived risk of the officers' behavior. Did they appreciate a risk there would be a loss to human life? Did they do it indifferently to human life? Did they do it intentionally in some way? They're going to consider all of these factors, particularly including the fact that one officer at least has already been fired for what they called the wanton disregard for human life when he fired, what, ten bullets into the home, potentially harming people next door as well.

[08:50:04]

And so all of that will be on the table for consideration.

But, remember, even if the grand jury may make a decision, the attorney general could keep it close to the vest, determining whether or not there was enough support for whatever charges they may come up with to actually go forward. They still have more control even after the grand jury makes a decision.

CAMEROTA: One of the officers who fired into Breonna Taylor's home wrote a letter to his department, and it was just released, Chief. He says he's wanted to tell his colleagues, you do not deserve to be in this position. The position that allows thugs to get in your face and yell, curse and degrade you. I know we did the legal, moral and ethical thing that night. It's sad how the good guys are demonized and criminals are canonized.

What are your thoughts as we await this decision?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, certainly email at a time when you have so much tension right now, an email like that is not one that's particularly helpful, but it was a six-paragraph email. Not just the couple lines that were just shown. And when you look at it in its entirety, it doesn't -- it's not as bad as it sounds when you just read those particular lines. But it would be best that he'd not written it.

But this is the officer that was shot, the sergeant that was shot as he went through the door. That coupled with the fact that he too is awaiting to see whether or not he's going to be criminally charged. He's under a lot of stress and a lot of pressure, which may have been what prompted the email. I'm not trying to defend him, I'm just saying that, you know, this is a very stressful situation for everyone involved right now. But I'm sure his attorney, if no one else, is not real happy that he wrote the email.

BERMAN: What are the complicating factors, Laura, in deciding the charges right now? COATES: Well, officers tend to get the benefit of the doubt, as we

know, across America. It's one of the reasons people are calling for an overhaul in the way that we evaluate and assess officer involved shootings because it's always about, for the everyday civilian, about whether it was the kill or be killed mentality. Did you have a fear that you would be killed if you did not use lethal force?

Well, the same standard actually should be held to officers. So it will be a matter of whether these officers actually felt that their lives were in danger and did they use just the necessary amount of force, not more, to try to repel whatever was perceived as potentially a lethal force and use of force against them? That will be a part of the consideration.

But so will be the warrant and the overall execution of this warrant. We now know there is now a ban of no-knock warrants in the jurisdiction, largely because of what happened to Miss Breonna Taylor, but also about why it was executed, the manner in which it was executed. Did they really announce, like they said they did, although it was a no-knock warrant? Did they already have another suspect in custody? Did they really believe that this was going to be a circumstance to use lethal force in general? All of that will come to be, including the fact that one of the officers was, in fact, shot.

The chronology will be so important. Was he shot first and then they returned fire? Did they exceed the requisite number of rounds to fire in some capacity? All of that will be complicating the decision by the grand jury right now.

And, of course, you've got that environment of social justice and the backlash of yet another person killed at the hands of officers, and this time months and months and months have gone by and no determination. A lot will simmer over.

CAMEROTA: So let's talk about that, Chief. I mean how would you prepare for whatever might happen in Louisville? Obviously police need to be at the ready, but you don't want to inflame whatever tensions and anger might erupt. So, what do you do?

RAMSEY: Well, first of all, I think you're doing the right thing right now by declaring a state of emergency, canceling days off, canceling vacations, so that you have sufficient resources there to be able to handle things because this isn't just about the demonstration. You can't take the entire Louisville Police Department and have them assigned to the demonstration. You still have neighborhoods you have to patrol, 911 calls that have to be answered.

And, remember, Louisville is experiencing the deadliest year in its history in terms of murders so far this year. So they've got a lot of issues that they have to deal with.

The way I would approach it is the way I would approach every demonstration. The initial reaction that you have or deployment that you have of officers to the demonstration, you have them in regular uniform. You try to have not an overly high-profile there, if you will, of police officers there, as long as the demonstration remains peaceful.

But you do have people in reserve that do have tactical gear so that if you need to, if rocks and bottles start to be thrown and things of that nature, you can pull the officers in regular uniforms back, deploy the other officers and try to get control of this situation.

So, you know, these things are difficult to handle. The majority of people there will be, you know, peaceful. But there will be some that will not be peaceful. And so you have to have that balance in being able to deal with it. But right now they do need a number of resources that they have to be able to deal with everything.

[08:55:05]

BERMAN: Chief Ramsey, Laura Coates, thank you both for being with us this morning. As we said, we don't know when this decision will come down, but we do expect it will be announced sometime soon. And we are watching and waiting very, very closely. Thank you both.

RAMSEY: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Well, this morning, America remembers Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Her casket will be arriving at the Supreme Court soon to lie in repose and CNN's coverage continues, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Very good Wednesday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow.

Returning for the final time. Minutes from now, you will see the casket of the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg arrive at the Supreme Court.

Ginsburg will lie in repose for the next two days there before she makes history once again as she becomes the first woman ever to lie in state at the Capitol.

[09:00:08]