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Protests Erupt Over Lack of Charges in Breonna Taylor's Death; Trump Refuses to Commit to Peaceful Transfer of Power if He Loses; Trump Claims He Could Override FDA on Stricter Vaccine Standards. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired September 24, 2020 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

[05:59:08]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. It's Thursday, September 24, 6 a.m. here in New York.

And the breaking news this morning, questions around the country about how a black woman could be killed in her apartment by police and no one charged in her death. Her name, as we know, was Breonna Taylor.

Overnight, protests in city after city after a grand jury in Kentucky issued a single indictment, not for the six shots that hit Breonna Taylor, but for shots fired into a nearby apartment.

We have a lot of new information this morning about the legal matters at play here, including the information we don't have: the holes in public knowledge about why police were at her apartment in the first place.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shots fired. Shots fired. Officer down, right there!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Officer down?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Overnight, two police officers in Louisville were shot. They are both in stable condition this morning, and a suspect is in custody. We're also getting reports of vehicles driving into protesters in Buffalo and Denver.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We'll get to all of that in a moment.

But we need you to stop what you're doing and mark this historic moment. The president of the United States just refused to commit to a peaceful transfer of power if he loses in November. Mark your calendars. He is serious as a heart attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN KAREM, JOURNALIST: Will you commit to making sure that there is a peaceful transferal of power after the election?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, we'll see what happens. You know that. I've been complaining very strongly about the ballots. And the ballots are a disaster.

KAREM: I understand that, but people are rioting. Do you commit to making sure that there's a peaceful transfer of power?

TRUMP: We won't have -- Get rid of the ballots and you'll have a -- you'll have a very peaceful. There won't be a transfer, frankly. There'll be a continuation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: President Trump means that. He doesn't want any transfer of power. And he appears to be open to, even encouraging violence to stay in power.

So we have a lot to cover. Let's begin with CNN's Brynn Gingras. She's live in Louisville with all of the breaking news there.

Brynn, what's the latest?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Alisyn, good morning.

Well, we're about a half an hour away from this curfew being lifted on what was a very emotional and a very chaotic, at times, night here in Louisville, Kentucky.

You know, listen, ever since March 13, when Breonna Taylor was killed inside her home, this is a community that has fought for justice and has wanted answers. And now this is a community who feels it's been robbed of both.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Say her name!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breonna Taylor!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breonna Taylor!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breonna Taylor!

GINGRAS (voice-over): In cities across the nation, the sound of Breonna Taylor's name echoing through the streets.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do we want?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice!

GINGRAS: Here in Louisville, protesters crying out for justice from the day into the night, frustrated and outraged by a grand jury's decision to make no direct charges in the fatal police shooting of the 26-year-old EMT killed in her home when three officers opened fire while executing a warrant during a narcotics investigation in March.

And as some demonstrations turned chaotic --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Officer down, right there! Officer down.

GINGRAS: Two Louisville Metro Police officers were shot Wednesday night.

ROBERT SCHROEDER, INTERIM POLICE CHIEF, LOUISVILLE METRO POLICE: One is in alert and stable. The other officer is currently undergoing surgery and stable. We do have one suspect in custody.

GINGRAS: None of the three Louisville Metro Police officers involved in Taylor's shooting face any charges related to her death. But former detective Brett Hankinson faces three charges of wanton endangerment in the first degree for firing bullets into a neighboring apartment.

Sergeant John Mattingly and Detective Myles Cosgrove were not indicted on any charges.

DANIEL CAMERON, KENTUCKY ATTORNEY GENERAL: If we simply act on emotion or outrage, there is no justice. Mob justice is not justice.

Breonna Taylor's death has become a part of a national story and conversation. But we must also remember the facts and the collection of evidence in this case are different than cases elsewhere in the country.

GINGRAS: The Kentucky attorney general says Mattingly and Cosgrove identified themselves before breaking down Taylor's door. Taylor's boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, who was there with her that night, disputes that claim, saying he fired a warning shot, because the police did not identify themselves.

KENNETH WALKER, BREONNA TAYLOR'S BOYFRIEND: They refused to answer when we yelled, "Who is it?" Fifteen minutes later, Breonna was dead from a hail of police gunfire.

GINGRAS: The attorney general says an FBI analysis shows Cosgrove fired the shot that killed Taylor, but a state investigation was inconclusive on that point.

CAMERON: Because our investigations show and the grand jury agreed Mattingly and Cosgrove were justified in the return of deadly fire after having been fired upon by Kenneth Walker.

GINGRAS: Mattingly's attorney writing in a statement, the system worked, adding, "These officers did not act in a reckless or unprofessional matter [SIC]."

But for Taylor's family, their attorneys say it's difficult to make sense of the ruling.

LONITA BAKER, ATTORNEY FOR BREONNA TAYLOR'S FAMILY: They're upset, justifiably, and I'm -- we're upset and outraged at the decision that was made.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GINGRAS: And as you can imagine, the fight for justice is only going to continue. The boyfriend of Breonna Taylor, Kenneth Walker, he's filed a civil lawsuit. There's hope that some new evidence, some new information will come out of those proceedings, as that goes through the court system.

There's also calls from Kentucky's governor to the attorney general to release information that was presented to the grand jury, information that cannot compromise or will not compromise the pending criminal case that's going to go on with that one officer.

And then there are still active investigations going on with the FBI and also, internally, with the Louisville Metro Police department -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Brynn, thank you very much for all of that.

Now to this jaw-dropping news. President Trump refuses to commit to a peaceful transition of power if he loses the election.

[06:05:08]

CNN's Joe Johns is live for us at the White House -- Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, you know, peaceful transfer of power is a hallmark of the American system. It's what sets us apart from authoritarian regimes, dictatorships, and the president's refusing to commit to it, even though he took an oath to uphold the Constitution, is surprising, but not necessarily shocking, simply because the president has repeatedly attacked the system and also made baseless claims of fraud in an election that's not going to conclude for weeks.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS (voice-over): With just 40 days to go until election day, President Trump refusing to commit to a peaceful transition of power, should he lose re-election.

KAREM: Will you commit to making sure that there is a peaceful transferal of power after the election?

TRUMP: Well, we're going to have to see what happens, you know that. I've been complaining very strongly about the ballots and the ballots are a disaster.

JOHNS: When pressed again, he continued to make baseless claims of election fraud.

TRUMP: Get rid of the ballots, and you'll have a very transfer -- we'll have a very peaceful -- there won't be a transfer, frankly, there'll be a continuation. The ballots are out of control. You know it. And you know who knows it better than anybody else? The Democrats know it better than anybody else.

JOHNS: Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden not surprised by the president's comments.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: What country are we in? I'm being facetious. I said, what country are we in? Look, he says the most irrational things. I -- I don't know what to say it, but it doesn't surprise me.

JOHNS: Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer firing back at Trump.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): This man has no, no honesty, honor, values, or faith in the American system. He doesn't deserve to be president. And hopefully, he will learn his lesson.

JOHNS: In a tweet, Republican Senator Mitt Romney calling out the president, writing, "The peaceful transfer of power is fundamental to democracy," and adding, "Any suggestion that a president might not respect this constitutional guarantee is both unthinkable and unacceptable."

Back in 2016, then-candidate Trump refused to say he would accept the results of the 2016 election.

TRUMP: I will look at it at the time. I'm not looking at anything now. I'll look at it at the time.

JOHNS: And after losing the popular vote by nearly 3 million in that election, the president falsely blamed widespread voter fraud.

TRUMP: You have people that are registered who are dead. There were illegals who are in two states. There are millions of votes, in my opinion. Now, I'm going to do an investigation.

JOHNS: Trump launched an election integrity commission to look into his claims. It found no evidence to back him up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: I'm going to say this again. There's no evidence of widespread fraud in the 2020 election. The only fact-based concerns about mail-in voting relate to the slowdown at the United States Postal Service.

The president's stated urgency to get a ninth justice on the court in the event the court has to decide an election case is highly likely to raise questions about the political impartiality of the person he wants to put on the court -- John.

BERMAN: Joe Johns at the White House, thanks very much. I just want to make one thing clear. I do think this is shocking. This

is next-level stuff here when you're talking about the peaceful transfer of power. I've been in countries and seen people killed over the transfer of power. It is not something to joke about.

And to be clear, the refusal to commit to the peaceful transfer of power is an implicit of violence, an implicit threat of unprecedented action from a president of the United States.

And it happened on another front overnight in a way that impacts every American during this pandemic. The president threatened to overrule new safeguards being discussed by the FDA in the vaccine approval process.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It sounded to me -- it sounded extremely political. Why would they do this when we come back with these great results? And I think you will have these great results. Why would we -- why would we be delaying it? But we're going to look at it. We're going to take a look at it, and ultimately, the White House has to approve it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Overruling the FDA on vaccine approval would be unprecedented. Experts tell us they have never heard of such a thing.

CNN's Lucy Kafanov live Denver. And Lucy, this is happening as cases, new cases begin to rise again in the country.

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, John. Look, vaccines take time to develop, and they only work if there's public confidence that people feel that it's safe enough to take them.

You have a president who's repeatedly predicted that a vaccine would be ready by election day, contradicting his own top health officials, who say a shot won't be ready until the end of 2020 at the earliest.

We learned yesterday that the FDA is now preparing these stricter guidelines that would basically oversee the emergency authorization of any type of vaccine. This is to add a new layer of vetting, a new layer of safety, by including outside experts who might weigh in on any new vaccine.

[06:10:14]

And then you have these stunning comments from the president yesterday, basically saying that the White House -- his administration may or may not approve these new stricter guidelines that, again, are intended for vaccine safety.

This as Dr. Anthony Fauci and other top Trump administration officials yesterday told a Senate panel that scientific data, science and data, is guiding their decision, not politics. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Every single vaccine trial has what's called an independent data and safety monitoring board, who is not beholden to the president. It's not beholden to the FDA. It's not beholden to the company or even to me, a person who is involved in the vaccine trial.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAFANOV: This is raising fears that the president might rubber stamp a shot based on political calculations as opposed to scientific data. And that, frankly, could be playing with people's lives.

We saw 1,098 Americans die of coronavirus yesterday, on Wednesday. This as at least 21 states across the country are reporting at least a 10 percent increase in new coronavirus cases.

Colorado is one of those states. One of the biggest causes of the outbreaks here is among 20-year-olds, young people who are returning to college. There was a very large outbreak at the University of Colorado in Boulder.

Governor Polis, though, the governor here, saying that, actually, all age groups are experiencing a rise in cases, and they're still investigating the cause. But one of the reasons could be Labor Day gatherings, as well as lessened vigilance.

And I also want to add that there is a new report from the CDC that found that people in their 20s accounted for 20 percent of all cases in August and July. Now that folks are returning to school, we could see those numbers rise, John.

BERMAN: More than a thousand new deaths reported overnight. And again, the daily case rate continues to rise as we head into the fall. Lucy Kafanov, thanks so much.

We have new information this morning on what is missing in the non- case against the officers who killed Breonna Taylor. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:16:31]

CAMEROTA: Breaking overnight, protests across America after a grand jury finds that two police officers were justified in Breonna Taylor's death. Another officer was charged with recklessly firing into a neighbor's apartment, but no one was charged with killing Breonna Taylor.

Joining us now, CNN law enforcement analyst Charles Ramsey. He's the former Philadelphia police commissioner and former D.C. Police chief. Also with us is retired LAPD sergeant, Cheryl Dorsey. She's the author of "Black and Blue: The Creation of a Social Advocate."

Great to see both of you.

Sergeant Dorsey, I want to start with you. What is your takeaway from the conclusions reached yesterday by the grand jury and attorney general there?

CHERYL DORSEY, RETIRED LAPD SERGEANT: Well, it seems to me as if this attorney general cherry-picked information that he wanted to present to the jurors. We know that there were several residents who said they didn't hear the officers announce, but he chose to present the one who said they did.

And when you understand that this A.G. is a Trump ally and reportedly engaged to the granddaughter of Moscow Mitch, it all makes sense. I find it offensive and appalling.

BERMAN: On the facts that were presented, Chief Ramsey -- and again, this is what we've been told by the attorney general of Kentucky, we haven't necessarily seen the documentation ourself here. The attorney general said that Kenneth Walker shot first and hit the officer, Mattingly, Jonathan Mattingly, in the leg. And therefore, the officers were justified in returning fire.

How much does that explain to you -- how sufficient is that for an explanation?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, first of all, let me start by saying, this is a tough one. This isn't as clear-cut as some of the other cases that we have discussed.

Listening to the attorney general and based strictly on what he presented in his press conference yesterday, I understand why the officers, the two officers were not charged. If things happened the way it is being purported, the officers were fired upon. They were justified in returning fire.

Now, that doesn't lessen the tragedy of Breonna Taylor's death at all. And certainly, the third officer who blindly fired into the apartment, should have been charged criminally.

But the fact that one officer was not only fired upon, was actually struck by gunfire, returned fire, I just don't see where a criminal charge would be presented there, as tragic as this whole thing is.

I think one issue, though, that didn't get attention from the attorney general is why they were there in the first place. The warrant itself. Now, the officers that executed the warrant were not the ones that applied for the warrant. But what was it that made anyone believe that either (AUDIO GAP) or instruments of a crime were present in her apartment? I mean, what was that based on? And that's information that needs to be made public.

CAMEROTA: Sergeant Dorsey, the system is horribly, tragically broken in that case. Because Kenneth Taylor -- I mean, Kenneth Walker, Breonna's boyfriend, is not the bad guy here. He thought somebody violent was breaking into their home. He says repeatedly, they didn't identify themselves. He's legally allowed to have self-defense and to fire his gun. He owned it legally.

So if he's justified in firing that shot, which he is, legally, and the police are justified in firing back, the system's broken in that case.

DORSEY: Well, listen, I don't necessarily believe that the officers were justified in firing. They say that they announced and that they entered, and he fired first. We know that they arrested him or at least transported him and held him for several days after the shooting.

And so I think if what they're saying is true, Kenneth Walker would be facing attempted murder charges against a police officer. Those who entered a residence, serving a legitimate search warrant and making an announcement that they're the police coming in, and that didn't happen.

And so everything that we've heard put forth by this police department has been intellectually dishonest from start to finish. An officer fires 16 rounds without reassessing a threat, just willy-nilly shooting, and none of the bullets hit Kenneth Walker, six hit Breonna Taylor? It's hard to believe.

And I think that this was designed to do what it did. Prosecutors can indict a ham sandwich, and in this case, they chose not to indict. And that's why there was scant information, or very limited information, given to a grand jury.

BERMAN: And to that point, Chief Ramsey, and you brought this up. I mean, the fact of the matter is, Breonna Taylor is dead. Breonna Taylor is dead this morning. And Breonna Taylor did nothing wrong here. She was never accused of a crime in this situation. I don't believe she was ever a suspect in any way, in a crime, though her apartment was under suspicion.

So how can you explain to the people on the streets feeling this pain this morning, that you have a system that places zero blame on anyone for the death of an innocent woman?

RAMSEY: I'm not saying that the system is perfect. And I'm also not saying that Mr. Walker didn't believe that someone was breaking into his apartment, it's why he fired the shot. But once he fired the shot, the police officers also didn't realize that Mr. Walker was under that assumption, and they returned fire.

I mean, this is just a tragedy all the way around, no matter how you look at it.

And certainly, we're in a point in our history where everyone is so opinionated. They want to enter politics into things. We don't know what was presented before the grand jury. But information needs to come out as to what was actually presented. So that we have a fuller picture, because right now, we're making a lot of assumptions that's we really -- it's not based on any real evidence that we know for a fact is there. And so it just confuses the situation even more.

CAMEROTA: Yes, there's a lot of confusion this morning. Sergeant Cheryl Dorsey, Chief Charles Ramsey, we really appreciate both of your expertise in this. Thank you for trying to help us make sense of it.

DORSEY: Thank you.

RAMSEY: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: All right. President Trump said something yesterday, and you need to believe your ears. He refused to commit to a basic tenant of American democracy, a peaceful transfer of power if he loses. This extraordinary statement is obviously sounding alarm bells. We discuss it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[06:27:12]

KAREM: Will you commit to making sure that there is a peaceful transferal of power after the election?

TRUMP: Well, we're going to have to see what happens. You know that. I've been complaining very strongly about the ballots, and the ballots are a disaster. And --

KAREM: I understand that, but people are rioting. Do you commit to making sure that there's a peaceful transferal of power?

TRUMP: We want to have -- Get rid of the ballots, and you'll have a very -- you'll have a very peaceful -- there won't be a transfer, frankly, there'll be a continuation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: President Trump just told us that, for him, a peaceful transfer of power is conditional. Only if he gets what he wants.

Republican Senator Mitt Romney is one of the people who is taking the president very seriously about these comments. He tweeted, "Fundamental to democracy is the peaceful transition of power. Without that, there is Belarus. Any suggestion that a president might not respect this constitutional guarantee is both unthinkable and unacceptable."

Joining us now to discuss this and much more are CNN commentators Bakari Sellers and Scott Jennings. Great to have both of you here.

Bakari, what did you hear in the president's words?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think it's something to be very terrified about. You know, the president, in his mind only, believes that either he wins the election or the election was rigged. There's no third alternative there.

But Democrats, we have to calm down. I hear this question a lot, you know, what happens if he doesn't leave? You have to beat him first. And I think that we have to focus on what's at hand, which is beating the president of the United States and beating him soundly. CAMEROTA: But I don't know if it matters, Bakari. I mean, what he said

yesterday was basically that he -- it sounded like he was OK with violence. If he loses, he was OK with violence. When Brian Karem there said, but there's rioting in the streets, he said, Well, get rid of the balloting. It's -- he's OK with it, as long as he gets what he wants.

SELLERS: We already know that he's OK with his type of violence. We know that he's OK with violence that is done in his name. So that's -- that's not new.

But what I want people to focus on, and what I'm trying to get people to focus on over the next 40 days, is none of this will matter -- you're right, Alisyn -- if he -- if he doesn't, you know, lose this election.

So you have to focus on what you can control now. I do believe that, on January 20 -- and this is just my faith in this country and my faith in democracy -- that whoever loses will ride in the White House -- will ride from the White House to the inauguration with the other -- with whomever the former president is, or whoever loses the election; and we'll have a peaceful transfer of power, regardless of what the president may say.

CAMEROTA: Scott, what did you hear in the president's comments?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, there's only one answer to that question, and that is, Of course, we'll have a peaceful transition of power. And I agree with Senator Romney. Any -- any suggestion to the contrary is not right. And no one should be making it. It's the wrong answer.

Look, the president has raised these questions about the mail-in ballots, and that's not a new topic for him. But to go from that question and then to try to talk about that in the same breath was a huge mistake yesterday.

And my suspicion is -- this reminds me of a few weeks ago, Alisyn, when he talked about, Well, maybe we should delay the election.