Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

FBI Head Says, Election Officials Push Back on Trump's Voting Claims; Taylor Family Attorney Says, Kentucky Attorney General's Investigation a Cover-Up; FBI Head, Election Officials Push Back on Trump's Voting Claims. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired September 25, 2020 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is New Day.

And this morning, the president has so much faith in mail-in voting, he is begging his voters to do it now. Vote-by-mail ballots in my home state of Florida begin going out today, he writes. Make sure to request yours. Fill it out and send it in. Request yours today.

So there you have it. There you have it. He wants his voters to do it. He wants his voters to vote by mail. Really, that's all you need to know. Follow the actions.

The FBI director, in sworn testimony says, follow the history and the precedent.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER WRAY, DIRECTOR, FBI: Now, we have not seen, historically, any kind of coordinated national voter fraud effort in a major election, whether it's by mail or otherwise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, the president says he wants his voters to do it. The FBI director says it's safe. Follow the actions. Because the words the president is saying out loud elsewhere, the intentional doubt he is sowing is meant for something else.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN NEW DAY: May I just build on that for a second, because while the president and his campaign are pushing their voters to use mail-in ballots, they don't want anyone else to be able to. In other words, he doesn't want Democrats to use the system he wants his voters to. So why does he have such little confidence in his ability to win if every vote is counted?

Meanwhile, more than 900 new deaths reported from coronavirus overnight. New guidance from the CDC forecasts that more than 20,000 additional people will die in just the next three weeks, more than 44,000 new cases reported in the last day. That is more than quadruple the number that Dr. Fauci thinks is safe.

And this morning, nearly half the country is seeing spikes. You can look at your map right there, all of the red and orange.

So let's bring in CNN Political Correspondent Abby Phillip and CNN Political Analyst David Gregory. Great to see both of you.

So, Abby, isn't that interesting, that President Trump is so passionate about his voters using mail-in ballots that he's urging them to. And yet, out loud in public, he constantly tries to sow doubt about them.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. When he talks about the ballots that he wants to throw out, obviously, he's not talking about the ballots from his own supporters. He's talking about ballots that are being cast by Democrats. And he, in a lot of ways, has created this situation that we're in in which there is this massive partisan divide. Republicans, according to polls, don't trust voting by mail and are more likely to vote in person, and Democrats are more likely to vote by mail.

And so President Trump and the RNC and the Trump campaign, in court, they are surgically trying to ensure that some of these expansions that are being made for COVID don't get put into place. They are pushing back on efforts to count votes early, pushing back on efforts to allow voters' opportunities to fix problems with their mail-in ballots. And all of this is knowing that the proportion of those ballots that are likely to be for the Democrats is going to be pretty high.

So I do think that this is a coordinated campaign. It's not just coincidence that they are sort of talking out of two sides of their mouth here.

J. BERMAN: That's why I suggest pay attention to what they're actually doing, which is trying to get their people to the mailbox to mail in their votes at the same time they are actively trying to prevent others to do it.

And, you know, David, the FBI director says it's safe. The FBI director says there is no evidence of widespread fraud. The Senate passes a resolution, saying they support a peaceful transfer of power.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: And that's important, but you're also hearing from Senate allies, including Lindsey Graham, that it may all come down to the Supreme Court. I mean, it's interesting, Lindsey Graham in this role that he's played with President Trump, and if you read Bob Woodward's book, you'll also learn about some tough advice that he gives the president, that the president usually follows.

So, Graham is saying there will be a peaceful transfer, he'll support that, is important. You hear more Republicans speaking up about this, but that could also change. I mean, if there's a case that the president and his team want to make, that there ought to be lawsuits, that they ought to seek recounts in certain states, that they ought to sue, that they ought to use other executive power.

[07:05:02]

We can't predict how the politics will line up, because we've seen the president's allies fall in line behind him on some pretty important matters.

CAMEROTA: But, I mean, we can sort of predict that the president will be litigious, and as Barton Gellman said in this Atlantic article that's gotten so much attention, Abby, President Trump will never concede. He's not built that way. He doesn't concede defeat. Never. He won in 2016 and he didn't concede that he lost the popular vote, he never has.

And so when Mitch McConnell says this -- let's play Mitch McConnell and then let's parse what that might really mean.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): We've had an orderly transfer of power every four years since Washington was selected for a second term in 1792. That will happen again to the winner of the November 3rd election on January the 20th, 2021.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Therein lies the rub that will happen for the winner of the election. President Trump will claim he's the winner regardless of if he wins.

PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, I think that there is a lot of wiggle room that Republicans are creating for themselves and how they're talking about this. You know, one of the big things that we know, to your point, Alisyin, about the president's litigiousness, we know that the Republican National Committee, the president's campaign, plans pretty extensive litigation after the election. And that litigation is going to be targeted at any ballots that are received after November 3rd. In many states, it is lawful for those ballots to be counted after November 3rd, but they've already told us they're going to challenge that.

And so after the election, we need to be looking very close at what people like Lindsey Graham and Minnesota McConnell say about whether those ballots can be counted, because that's the case that the president is going to make, which is that anything comes in after November 3rd, whether the law in that state says so or not, shouldn't be counted, and therefore, perhaps if he is up on Election Day count because of in-person voting, he is the winner of the election. That is what is so deeply troubling to the people that I talk to.

And so when you hear Republicans saying that, especially given their willingness to turn on a dime, changing their words six months later or four years later, you really have to pay close attention to whether they will be the ones to say to President Trump, no, Mr. President, you have to accept these results, these results are final. A lot of people also say, at the same time, that if there is a Supreme Court decision, if there is a Supreme Court decision, it will be hard to see how Trump pushes back on that. But, again, I really wouldn't assume anything in this kind of environment (ph).

J. BERMAN: Can I say, you brought up Mitch McConnell's statements here. I don't think the key words there were winner. I thought the key words were November 3rd. And there is no reason that Mitch McConnell had to say November 3rd. He did it perhaps intentionally to suggest that there is something different about the votes cast in-person on Election Day versus those ballots that quite legally may arrive in some states after. I think those words were chosen deliberately.

David, overall, I guess the point I'm making is, I think that the doubt that is being sowed isn't doubt about something that might happen in the end. The doubt and the reason the president is saying things out loud and doing something differently, the doubt is the end. The doubt is the end in itself.

GREGORY: Right. And that you can't trust it because his view, the president's view is that the fix is in, that the same people who brought you impeachment is going to try to rig the election and will never really get a fair shake. That's the doubt that someone who is behind in the polls in states that he won, at least facing tight races or behind in some of these places is trying to create for his supporters.

And I think, you know, our analog here is to think back to the 2000 campaign and election, which went on for over a month because of the recount in Florida and was ultimately handed to George W. Bush in a Supreme Court decision.

As Abby says, this is so much more complex because of how many states could be involved, how many additional lawsuits could be involved and other levers of executive power. And all the while, a president who is saying even before the election, hey, you can't trust this if it doesn't go our way, because Democrats are coming at us.

But I choose to believe there's a lot we don't know. We don't know how it's ultimately going to shake out, how close it ultimately might be. Democrats are ready too. And Biden was told not to concede because of the likelihood that, A, we're not going to know, just by virtue of counting in states and that litigation will start. I think we can expect it's going to be a pretty turbulent period on Election Day going forward.

CAMEROTA: We're doing our calisthenics now to prepare for that day and whatever happens.

[07:10:02]

Abby, as you know, the president promised his health care plan back in July. He said it would be ready in two weeks, that didn't happen. He promised in August, it didn't happen. So we've been hammering that, and maybe because of pressure, he did release what he's calling his plan, but it's really a wish list. It's sort of pie in the sky stuff. So here it is. His, I guess, dream of what he -- all the things that he would want in some sort of health care plan. Of course, he would have to work with Congress to achieve this.

And as we know, you know, President Trump is not necessarily a details guy. And the devil is always in the details. So what are we to make of this health care wish list?

PHILLIP: I think wish list is the best way to describe it. I mean, these are things that you hear in the rhetoric all the time. But the reality of the health care situation in this country, which is incredibly complex, and it's a behemoth, and that is why the Affordable Care Act was such a heavy lift for the Obama administration, is that these things need to be dealt with by Congress and in a comprehensive fashion.

The president -- not even the president can wave a magic wand and make all of these things happen. And I think they're trying to indicate to voters that they're doing something about it. And, sure, they should get credit for having, on some level, principles about what they want to do but that is not the same thing as a health care plan. And it really cannot be confused for that. And it's also misleading to make people believe that these things can be accomplished by the president just saying it.

There is -- especially if these cases go forward to invalidate the Supreme Court, as the president wants the cases to go forward, there's going to need to be something to replace it and that's going to have to be done by Congress.

J. BERMAN: The administration is arguing to overturn Obamacare in the courts. The case is scheduled to be heard on November 10th. The administration is trying to do away with protections for pre-existing conditions, and also, the community rating, which I think I covered nearly as much, which guarantees affordable health care for people with pre-existing conditions. I didn't see anything in that in the list of words that the White House put out yesterday.

David, you had your hand up there or you were adjusting your light, I couldn't tell which one?

GREGORY: Yes, I know, right? Well, both need work. But, you know, I think what's interesting about this, about any kind of vision, which is pretty vague, is a commitment. You've always heard the president say, oh, we've got to protect pre-existing conditions.

I think it's a recognition of how much political danger there is in taking away a benefit that has been bestowed upon the American people. You don't do that lightly. And that's why it hasn't -- Republicans have not prevailed.

And the president, especially in the context of the election, where he's getting hammered on this, wants to be able to say to people, even if we do something different, we've still got to deliver on pre- existing conditions. How he does that, it's not clear. But it's a sign of how risky it is for him.

J. BERMAN: Maybe you're just working out your pitch arm there, David. I saw you moving it.

Anyway, David, Abby thank you both so much for being with us. I appreciate it.

Overnight, the attorney for the family of Breonna Taylor accused Kentucky's attorney general of a cover-up in the investigation into her killing. We saw protests overnight again in Louisville, mostly peaceful, and across the country, because a grand jury failed to charge the police officers in Taylor's death.

CNN's Brynn Gingras live for us this morning in Louisville. Brynn?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John, good morning. And we actually got an update from the Louisville Metro Police Department, saying there are about a couple of dozen arrests made overnight, certainly, much more peaceful night than the one we saw the night before, where those two officers were shot and there were more than a hundred arrests.

We know one of those officers is doing much better, the other as well, but is still in the hospital recovering. And the suspect charged with the shooting during those protests is expected to go before a judge later today.

The curfew here in Louisville, it's always been 9:00. There were protesters out past that time last night, but that curfew is going to be extended throughout the rest of this weekend.

Now, where do we go from here? Well, you just mentioned, the attorney for Breonna Taylor's family, Benjamin Crump, he went on our air last night and even, like you said, did say that he accuses the attorney general of a cover-up. He asks the questions, what sort of evidence did this grand jury see? Was Breonna Taylor's name even mentioned during those secret proceedings in order to come back with this single indictment against the officer? Again, none of the officers charged directly with the killing of Breonna.

So the mayor of this town now asking the attorney general, trying to work with him and the FBI to release more information. Some evidence giving everyone a little bit more clear picture of exactly what charges that grand jury was considering.

So today, though, we're going to hear from Breonna Taylor's family directly. This is the first time they'll be speaking publicly since this indictment was handed down and we know it's been -- they've been emotional, hearing about this.

[07:15:02]

And we're certainly going to probably hear very emotional words coming from this news conference scheduled for later today. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Okay. Brynn, please keep us posted on all of the developments there, thank you.

So even in death, Ruth Bader Ginsburg is still making history. In just a few hours, Justice Ginsburg will become the first woman ever to lie in state at the U.S. Capitol. She will also be the first Jewish person to receive that honor.

Members of Congress, along with Joe Biden, and Joe Biden will pay their last respects, people turned out in droves over the last two days to say goodbye to RBG during a public viewing at the Supreme Court, which had to be extended. After leaving the Capitol, Justice Ginsburg will be laid to rest later today.

Well, the Republican governor of Massachusetts calls President Trump's refusal to commit to a peaceful transfer of power, quote, appalling. What will other Republicans say? We'll discuss, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

J. BERMAN: All right. I want to read something to you now. Quote, the truth is that after decades of looking for illegal voting, there is no proof of widespread fraud.

[07:20:00]

The president's rhetoric has put my party in the position of a firefighter who deliberately sets fires to look like a hero putting them out.

Republicans need to take a hard look before advocating laws that actually do limit the franchise of otherwise qualified voters. Calling elections fraudulent and results rigged with almost non-existent evidence is antithetical to being the rule of law party.

Those words written by longtime Republican Election Lawyer Ben Ginsburg, who is with me now. Also with us, Ari Berman, Senior Reporter for Mother Jones and the author of, Give Us the Ballot, the Modern Struggle for Voting Rights in America.

And, gentlemen, I wanted you on here so we could take a step back from some of the language, some of the words being spoke out loud to talk about what's actually happening on the ground across the country, because that's more important. And, Ben, I wanted to read your op-ed. And I undersold you. You're not just a Republican election lawyer, you were the preeminent Republican election lawyer from every campaign I covered for 20 years, you were the guy.

So why did you find -- why did you choose to write that op-ed in The Washington Post? Why is it so important to you to make that larger point?

BEN GINSBURG, REPUBLICAN ELECTION LAWYER: Never before in our history have we had a president who has challenged elections before they've even taken place for being rigged and fraudulent. And that has a real impact on the way the country runs, obviously, the part of elections.

So I thought it was important to say that to be able to put the contexts that are going to come out in some sort of perspective.

J. BERMAN: You also wanted to point out though that what's actually being done might limit the franchise. What did you mean by that?

GINSBURG: What that means is that in many of the court cases that are taking place around the country today, the Republican position is based on the fact that there was fraud that took place or a need to prevent fraud.

A need to prevent fraud is absolutely valid for state legislators to put in their laws. But if you have a pattern of cases in which you're deliberate trying to stop certain groups that oppose you, you're putting up barriers to their voting, then that's more problematic, that all gets heightened when the president of the United States says that the elections are going to be fraudulent or rigged.

To say that, you have to have evidence. And the simple fact is, the evidence hasn't appeared, it's not -- it doesn't exist. Republicans have looked every election cycle, as they should, for voting improprieties to make sure that valid votes are counted. But you have to be candid about what you've developed as evidence if you're going to make charges like that.

J. BERMAN: This is a perfect segue to you, Ari Berman, no relation, by the way. You live and breathe voter rights and voter access and ballot access. And the question again, despite the president's words, no matter he's saying, what's happening on the ground legally? What are the fights either to make access to voting easier or harder around the country?

ARI BERMAN, SENIOR REPORTER, MOTHER JONES: Hey, John, and good to see another Berman this morning. You're absolutely right. There are real challenges to our elections right now and the challenges aren't what the president is talking about.

The great fear out there is not voter fraud. The great fear out there is the potential for voter disenfranchisement, things like in Pennsylvania, having to have two envelopes to put your ballot in, and potentially tens of thousands of ballots being thrown out because of, quote, unquote, naked envelopes, things like witness signatures in North Carolina and Wisconsin. You need to have a witness find your ballot at a time of social distancing, trying to throw out ballots if they arrive after Election Day, even if they are allowed to arrive after election day, as long as they're postmarked by Election Day.

These are all the kind of things we're concerned about. Will people be able to request mail ballots? Will people get their ballots back in time? Will their ballots be thrown out for minor technicalities? Will there be enough polling places? Will there be enough poll workers? Will there be long lines at the polls? Those are the kind of things that election officials are concerned about, that people who cover voting rights are concerned about.

So, obviously, President Trump's comments about not committing to a peaceful transfer of power are extremely disturbing, but I am concerned about all of the things that are happening before the election to make it more difficult to vote, and how the Trump campaign is undermining free and fair elections in real-time, not what they'll do afterward. J. BERMAN: That's my point. Just give us one example then of an actual case, something that is happening right now that impacts whether or how people vote. You choose. I mean, I'll say there are fights over drop-off boxes, legal fights in several states.

A. BERMAN: I'll give you a very good example. Pennsylvania is a great example.

[07:25:01]

There was a Pennsylvania Supreme Court decision recently that did some very good things and also some bad things. The good things it did was it said if your ballot is postmarked by Election Day, it can arrive afterwards, it said, you could drop your ballot off, things like that.

The Trump campaign is appealing that ruling. So there's now going to be another ruling and they could decide that your ballot has to arrive by Election Day and they're going to throw out ballots that arrive after, or they could prevent the use of drop boxes.

At the same time, that same court order in Pennsylvania said that you could throw out, quote, naked ballots. You would have to have two envelopes in your absentee ballots, which is very confusing to people. In Philadelphia, they warned this could disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of people.

So the Trump campaign is making a big statement this morning about seven ballots potentially being thrown out in Pennsylvania. We could have tens of thousands of ballots thrown out in Pennsylvania from one law alone.

J. BERMAN: So, Ben Ginsburg, I don't know if you're a Charlie Baker guy, who is the Republican governor of Massachusetts, but he's the kind of candidate I know that you probably would have supported over time. And I know there are people involved in his office and his campaigns that you've been associated with in the past. I want to play to you how Governor Baker, Republican of Massachusetts, has addressed what the president has been saying out loud. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHARLIE BAKER (R-MA): Mail-in balloting has been with us forever. And that peaceful transfer of power is what the people of this country rely on when they go to vote. It is appalling and outrageous that anyone would suggest for a minute that if they lose an election, they're not going to leave, period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

J. BERMAN: So, Ben, Governor Baker is pissed off, frankly. And if you watch more of what he said, he's angry along the margins too. Why aren't other Republicans, Republican leaders in Washington -- they put out tweets and they have said certain things, but why aren't we hearing that level of anger? What's the complicating factor? GINSBURG: I think the complicating factor, just to look at it from their perspective, is that they're caught in this terrible place between the president, who they don't agree with on things like transfer of power, as you heard yesterday, but they also have practical implications. It is a big deal if you are a conservative to have another justice on the Supreme Court. So they're making their bed and they're holding their nose at the same time in the practical implications.

It isn't -- you know, most of the senators, especially those up for re-election, are relying on mail-in ballots. They have to have mail-in ballots come in by their supporters. They're going to lose their elections. So they have to disagree with the president and his rhetoric on that.

So, basically, the president is teeing up a whole bunch of issues that have the potential to cause long-term damage to the Republican Party. And the silence now is going to complicate that, but it's also understandable on a different level.

J. BERMAN: Ben Ginsburg, great to see you again. I appreciate you being with us. Cousin Ari, I appreciate you coming on. I hope we see you again very soon.

A. BERMAN: thank you.

J. BERMAN: All right, we're going to turn now to coronavirus and really troubling new projections. The CDC now says 20,000 more people could die in just the next three weeks. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:30:00]