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President Trump Criticizes Mail-In Ballots while Encouraging Supporters to Vote by Mail; Postmaster General Defends Postal Service's Capacity to Deliver Mail-In Ballots; Coronavirus Cases Continue to Rise across U.S.; Concerns Grow Over GOP Efforts to Restrict Mail-In-Voting. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired September 25, 2020 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: The United States Senate even found it necessary after the president's comments to hold a vote to uphold a peaceful transfer of power. But President Trump is still trying to sow doubt about the election with baseless claims about mail-in voting. But interesting, at the same time, he is encouraging his supporters to do just that, to vote by mail.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, I think it's more than interesting. Let it sink in for a moment. The president and his campaign have so much faith in mail-in voting they are pushing their voters to do it now. Isn't that the only thing that matters, what they're actually telling people to do beyond the noise the president's making?

And if you want to talk about numbers this morning, more than 900 new deaths reported from coronavirus overnight, and new guidance from the CDC that now forecasts more than 20,000 additional people could die in just the next three weeks. More alarming numbers about the daily case rate, 44,000 new cases reported in the last day. Why is that number important? Dr. Anthony Fauci said we should be at 10,000 cases now. We're at 44,000. This morning, nearly half the country is seeing a spike in cases.

I want to bring in CNN's senior reporter Nia-Malika Henderson and CNN White House correspondent John Harwood. And look, by Friday, Alisyn is United States sick of me anyway. I think this morning --

CAMEROTA: By Wednesday.

MCCORMACK: -- even more so because I keep harping on this point. The president is telling his voters to vote by mail. The president is telling his voters in Florida and Michigan to go vote by mail. Isn't that all we need to know, Nia? Isn't that all we need to know? And then all the other crap that's been coming out of his mouth about voter integrity is nonsense because he's telling people he has enough faith in the system that he wants people to go do it now.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, he certainly wants his people to go and do it now, as you saw in that tweet. But he's telling his supporters any number of other things which they might listen to, which is to vote by mail, also to go vote in person. He's also, this whole idea of we'll get rid of the ballots. I don't know what he means by "we." I don't know if he's telling his supporters to help him get rid of the ballots, folks in some of these battleground states who are going to be on the front lines of counting ballots, and also some of these legal challenges we'll see to the balloting as well.

So I think there is mixed messaging from this president and overall mixed messaging from the Republican Party too. They very much want mail-in balloting. They want their supporters to request those mail-in ballots in the way that we have seen from Democrats as well.

But listen, I think we know that Trump's followers listen to what he says, whether it's him saying go vote by mail, or whether it's him saying go vote by mail and go vote in person, and patrol some of the polling places as well, and also see balloting by other folks who are Democrats and may live in different counties and may be black and brown, that those ballots are inherently suspicious, because that is what Trump is also telling his supporters.

CAMEROTA: John, I thought it was very interesting to see the confluence of bedfellows, perhaps strange, all come together to disavow what the president said. Not explicitly, but between the director of the FBI, between elect officials, between the Senate, and then even his big donor, Louis DeJoy, who he installed at the top of the Postal Service felt the need to come out and correct the record. Here he is yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOUIS DEJOY POSTMASTER GENERAL: When the president goes into that the Postal Service is not equipped to do it, which he's incorrect with that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: He's incorrect with that. Noteworthy.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It is noteworthy, Alisyn, and all the things that we're talking about are organized around the particular psychological makeup of this president. We know that he is focused almost exclusively on himself, that the way that he processes information is to conclude that information is beneficial to him is true and information that isn't is false. And the entire political system is operating around that fact.

And so when Louis DeJoy or Mitch McConnell or Republican senators who live in a more traditionally reality-based world have to react to outlandish things the president says, they have got to figure out exactly how to tiptoe around it. The president crossed the line so egregiously with his remarks about transition of power that they had no alternative but to say no, of course we're going to have a peaceful transition of power. The Senate passed a resolution. Chris Wray, the Trump appointed FBI director, comes out and says, no, we have not seen widespread fraud. These people can see what reality is, and they're trying to express it, but trying to do it under the shadow of this president who is the way he is.

[08:05:09]

And we have seen it for four years, and the American people have pretty clearly made up their mind about it. And the one thing that is true is, you're right, that Trump's followers, many of them listen to him, but there are fewer of them than there were four years ago. And when we look at the pattern in the polls, we see a clear national lead for Joe Biden, a clear lead in battleground states. So the president's ability to shape reality to his benefit has limits to it.

BERMAN: I don't think it's just Trump supporters who are the audience here for the doubt. And I also think that the doubt is an end in and of itself for right now, because it is meant to get into the minds of other voters, to make them think that maybe that their vote doesn't count right now, which is why I think it's so fascinating and worth playing the response from the Biden campaign. We have been waiting to see exactly how team Biden will respond to this, and I think we got a little bit of a taste of it overnight from Kate Bedingfield, a Biden campaign official. So let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATE BEDINGFIELD, BIDEN 2020 DEPUTY CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Donald Trump is trying to distract from his catastrophic failures as president of the United States in order to talk about something that, frankly, spins up the press corps, so that you guys are focused on this and not focused on how he has not put forward a meaningful health care plan and how he has spent the entirety of this administration in court trying to tear down the Affordable Care Act.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: I think that's one aspect of it, possibly, that you're trying to distract. There's always that possibility with the Trump campaign. But then again, there's also the additional thing in why I think that team Biden isn't jumping over this more strongly is they don't want to create doubt in the system right now that the president is trying to do.

HENDERSON: Yes. Berman, I think that's exactly right. I think we do know that this president is trying to suppress the vote. He is trying to essentially say if you mail your ballot, it's going to get there. It's somehow going to be invalidated, and he knows the Democrats in particular are looking to mail in their ballots. Older voters as well. And so we see this whole effort. And if the Joe Biden campaign buys into that, do they essentially contribute to what we know that Trump wants to do.

And in some ways they're right. It is a bit of a distraction. But it also is the main thing as well when you think about how this election is going to be conducted in the era of COVID. You have to figure out how you're going to vote. It is going to be mailed, or are you going to trust the mail system. Even though you had Louis DeJoy saying that the system is equipped to handle this volume of mail-in ballots, I think people around the country doubt that. They have seen their own mail get slowed down, prescription drugs get slowed down as well, so it's hard to know what the reality is, which, again is what Donald Trump wants to sow, this kind of chaos and confusion about voting in an electoral John.

CAMEROTA: John, I disagree with Kate Bedingfield of the Biden campaign there. This is not another shiny object that the media is chasing after. The president made it conditional, a peaceful transfer of power, he made it conditional, and when Brian Karem asked him to clarify, he said it again, full stop. That's not just a distraction that, oh, we're trick by. No. That's a moment that you have to in history say here's what the president is saying, and we need to believe our ears. And so that's what has been happening for the past 48 hours.

HARWOOD: No question about it. But that begs the question, Alisyn, to what degree is this decision in the president's hands? The president, yes, he wants to remain in office. He is compelled to act in ways that suggest he's going to remain in office. He's going to win if the election was a fair election in his view.

But we have also seen tremendous levels of motivation among voters, high interest in the election. We're going to have a tremendous turnout in this campaign, and over time we have seen Democrats, if you look at the polling, express more interest in voting early in person or in person on Election Day than mail balloting as these doubts have been raised. There are going to be a lot of mail-in balloting and disproportionately more on the Democratic side, but that number has come down.

And so it's really going to be the will and the perceptions of one person against with tens of millions of people who are going to come out and express their views on Election Day. Is that going to be decisive? If you look at the polling now, it is likely that we're going to have sufficient margins in enough states that it's not going to come down to a single court case or a single disputed state. But we're going to have to see. Those margins have been persistent for a number of months. We have got debates coming up next week. That may be the president's last best chance to make this a closer contest which puts it more in the zone of where he could affect it and where the doubts that he raised and the Republicans that he mobilizes could have an effect on the outcome. But we're not there right now.

CAMEROTA: I think it's important to just mentally prepare viewers and voters, this will not be a neat and tidy wrap-up on Election Day. We're going to have to have the stamina for the long haul, whatever this looks like.

BERMAN: It can be neat and tidy --

CAMEROTA: How?

BERMAN: Neat and tidy doesn't mean that we know a results on election night.

CAMEROTA: That's it. But I think that --

BERMAN: Neat and tidy means counting the ballots.

CAMEROTA: Sure. It's going to be longer than we're used to.

BERMAN: Longer does not mean neat and tidy. I think we need to be careful with the words -- seriously. It can go on for days and that is perfectly neat and tidy, because that means we've counted the votes the way we're supposed to.

CAMEROTA: Sure, because I'm just saying it's different than what we are --

BERMAN: Different doesn't mean not neat and tidy.

HARWOOD: And to your point, John, neat and tidy can be on November 5th or November 6th or November 7th, as well as --

HENDERSON: Or December 5th or December 10th.

HARWOOD: Exactly.

HENDERSON: This could go on a really long time. That's certainly what both sides are girding for in these different states, particularly in battleground states.

CAMEROTA: Consider ourselves girded.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: John Harwood, Nia-Malika Henderson, thank you both very much.

HENDERSON: Yes, thanks.

CAMEROTA: So this morning, nearly half the country is seeing a rise in coronavirus cases. As you can see on this map, it's almost all of the west and the Midwest. The CDC forecasts that 20,000 more people will die from coronavirus in just the next three weeks. An influential coronavirus model used by the White House has updated its projection now to more than 371,000 deaths, almost twice where we are right now by January 1st.

Now, that is down from what they projected a week ago, but it's still a jaw-dropping death toll. Right now, the U.S. is nearing 7 million coronavirus cases. It could hit that milestone in just the coming hours.

All right, legal battles are underway in key swing states about how ballots should be cast and counted this election cycle, so we'll talk to the attorney general of Pennsylvania, one of the key places that this is going on about the fights already there, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:15:56]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: All right. The FBI director, Christopher Wray, says there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud, either in-person or by mail.

The president is urging his voters to cast ballots by mail. Still, there are many misleading things being said by the president and others about the process. But what we'll do right now is look at not the words, but the actions.

What is being done at this moment to make it either easier to vote, more fair or frankly otherwise?

Joining me now is someone who is right in the middle of it, the Democratic attorney general of Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro.

Attorney General, thank you so much for being with us this morning.

And what I do really want to know is what you are doing and what fights have you been engaged in over the last several weeks to make it -- to give people access to voting and what opposition have you run up against?

JOSH SHAPIRO (D), PENNSYLVANIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Yeah, well, good morning and thanks for giving me this opportunity to explain this, because we're battling on so many different fronts. Just to make sure people have the ability to get out there and vote.

First and foremost, we have a sitting president of the United States who's actually sued us here in Pennsylvania -- believe it or not, the president sued us -- to make it harder for people to vote. And so, we're battling this out at federal court. He has sued to try and undermine our vote by mail statute, the statute that allows people to take a ballot like this one and vote from home.

And so, we're battling back and the central argument the president has put forth actually, John, is that while, there's all kinds of fraud in Pennsylvania with vote by mail and so you can't do it. So, we went to court and in non-legal terms, we said, hey, Mr. President, put up or shut up. Demonstrate the fraud, otherwise let's move on and let the people of Pennsylvania vote.

And, of course, they demonstrated no fraud in their filings. In addition to that battle against the president's attempts to undermine our vote here, I have organized a coalition of states across the country and sued the leadership of the U.S. Postal Service because they have made changes to our mail that have slowed down the mail, that won't guarantee the flow of election mail in a timely fashion. And we believe and I think it's pretty clear based upon their actions and the documents we've been able to get from the Postal Service that they acted in an illegal manner. In fact, we were in federal court in Philadelphia yesterday arguing this case.

And then, finally, what I'm trying to do is simply educate voters. Telling them to calm down, trying to ignore the noise that the president is putting out there in a purposeful and meaningful manner, and just tell them how to vote. Make it clear how they vote by mail, vote in person, the kind of rules that many other states have. But we just want to create some clarity amidst the chaos that's being generated by the president.

BERMAN: And we'll give you a chance to do that, and literally give you a chance to show Pennsylvanians how to vote with your mail-in ballot in just a second. But first, just one more concrete example of what's happening, not what's being said, but what's happening. There's a battle over ballot drop-off boxes, correct?

SHAPIRO: Yeah. They actually want to make it harder for people to access our democracy by simply being able to drop their ballot off at a drop box, something that was passed in a law by the legislature about two years ago and interestingly enough, our vote by mail statute which includes these drop boxes was passed with more Republican votes than Democratic votes.

Listen, I get the fact that elections are partisan exercises, right? Of course, you're choosing your party, you're choosing your candidate. You are making an ideological political choice. That's the way that the elections should work.

But the underlying foundation of the operations of those elections, that's never been partisan or politicized until this president came along.

So, it's my job as the people's lawyer, as the people's attorney general, to push back against those attempts to politicize the process.

BERMAN: Right.

SHAPIRO: And create a foundation upon which everyone in Pennsylvania can have confidence that their ballot will be secure, protected and counted.

BERMAN: Very odd press release yesterday from the Department of Justice involving Luzerne County, in Pennsylvania, initially about nine military mail-in ballots that we understand or were told by the DOJ were discarded. Correct?

Now, they said at the time, initially, that they were nine ballots for Donald Trump and then they said seven for Donald Trump. The fact they said it at all is highly unusual if not unprecedented in a middle of an investigation. That aside, the strangeness of the press release, can you give us an update on what you know about why these ballots were discarded?

SHAPIRO: Yeah, I will give you an update, and it was odd and I would note there were two competing press releases. I think one was put out, one was pulled out. The one that was out there actually referenced the primary election. It was obviously very confusing.

I have since spoken to the district attorney in Luzerne County, and the United States attorney in that region and this investigation.

And it's important to note, it's a federal investigation. It's not an investigation from my office, the local D.A. It involves some general election ballots. And, look, I think it's important that law enforcement works together

to do its job, to let the public know that they can have faith and confidence in our process and our process has integrity. That's a good thing. We in law enforcement should be working together to ensure that and we do do that here.

The problem is when these issues get politicized by the commander-in- chief, when they try and sow doubt in our process and create chaos, that's the challenge. And here's the problem is -- the president is trying to create this chaos for a very specific reason and that is to make us -- to make the voters feel powerless in this process, to make them feel like their vote won't count.

BERMAN: Let me --

SHAPIRO: It doesn't matter in our democracy and we have to push back on that by simply exercising our power. I was -- I was noting that the --

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Attorney General, I want to -- we're running out of time and I want to give you a chance to show people in Pennsylvania, Democrats, Republicans and others, how to use that power because there's been a lot of talk about the mail-in ballots here and the idea of what's called a naked -- naked ballot, a secrecy envelope. The Pennsylvania mail-in ballots, you need to know how to do it.

Show us how to do it.

SHAPIRO: Yeah, real simple. Actually, I was talking to one of my constituents, Megan (ph) from Pittsburgh last night. She said, think of it like a wedding invitation, with multiple envelopes. She's right.

Here's the ballot, fill it out. I did -- I voted by mail in the primary and millions will vote by mail going forward. You take it, you stick it in this secrecy envelope right here. You seal it up. Why do we have a secrecy envelope like 16 other states? Because we want our ballots to remain secret.

And then you sign the back of the outer envelope. You put it in, you seal it, stick it in the mail and in a timely manner and your ballot is counted. It's very simple. This is not controversial.

The president keeps calling these ballots a disaster. I say these ballots are our democracy. This is the power of the people to determine the direction of our country. People need to vote and I'm going to do my job in court to protect that vote.

BERMAN: Use both envelopes in Pennsylvania. If you do not use both envelopes, at least right now, the courts say your ballot will be thrown out. Use both envelopes.

Attorney General, we appreciate your time this morning. Thank you very much for being with us.

SHAPIRO: Good to be with you. Thank you.

BERMAN: All right. We're almost five weeks away from Election Day and one word keeps coming up with voters we are hearing from.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: What do you see?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I see hypocrisy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I agree, I see a lot of hypocrisy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a lot of hypocrisy on both sides right now, unfortunately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: We take the pulse of the people, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:27:58]

CAMEROTA: Thirty-nine days until the election. Time for part two of our pulse of the people voter panel. You told me via Instagram and Facebook that you wanted to hear from Americans who have lost their jobs because of coronavirus. So we gathered a group of three Biden voters and three Trump voters all of them hard hit by the financial fallout from the virus. We wanted to hear their top issue as they head to the polls and who they trust to solve it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Let's go around the horn and just tell me what is the issue that is driving you to the polls in November?

FELICIA RAND, OHIO VOTER WHO SUPPORTS BIDEN: Quite frankly, I'm tired of turning on the news and watching people look like me being slaughtered for sport. I really am just at the point now where I don't -- I don't want to have to keep explaining to my kids like why they have to move differently because of the color of their skin. My son is 14 and I fear for my son sometimes because, you know, just because of the way he looks and that should not be a reality in 2020, but here we are. I'm just ready for somebody to actually say what they'll do.

CAMEROTA: And you don't think that that's President Trump?

RAND: Absolutely not. No.

THADDEUS JONES, JR., SOUTH CAROLINA VOTER WHO SUPPORTS BIDEN: My top issue is similar to the young lady right before me. I'm tired of seeing this country racially divided. We haven't dealt with the original sin of this country. And I think that if we don't start to deal with that, we're going have a bigger problem on our hands and I think that president Trump has proven that he's not the man to deal with that -- those issues. And we see that our country is in turmoil. So I'm -- I'm betting that we are going to be able to make some

headway with candidate Biden.

RENE RODRIGUEZ, FLORIDA VOTER WHO SUPPORTS BIDEN: Well, my top issue is I want to return to some kind of status quo. It is great to negotiate some.