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New Day

New York Times: Trump Paid Just $750 In Federal Taxes In 2016 and 2017; Journalist Hospitalized After Testing Negative Three Times. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired September 28, 2020 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We now know what's in President Trump's taxes. As of this morning, new financial documents obtained by the New York Times paint a picture of all of the mysterious questions that people have had over the years about whether Donald Trump pays taxes.

It turns out, Mr. Trump is deeply in debt, and he paid a measly $750 in federal taxes in both 2016 and 2017 while he was in the White House. He also paid nothing in taxes for 10 of the last 15 years.

Joining us now, our CNN Senior Political Commentator and former Republican Senator Rick Santorum, and CNN Political Commentator and former Republican Congressman Charlie Dent who has endorsed Joe Biden.

Charlie Dent, let me start with you. Your takeaway from reading this?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Wow. I mean, it's just right to me that people are going to ask, you know, is their president a tax cheat. I mean, that's the obvious question. I mean, he just deducted $70,000 for hair cuts for heaven's sake. I mean, I paid $25 every month, $150 a year for haircuts --

CAMEROTA: Do you think he is not getting his money's worth, Charlie?

DENT: Yes, of course not. I mean, I should introduce him to my barber, Jimmy Maurier (ph) in Allentown. I mean, people in Allentown and Scranton, you know, are paying $20, $25, at least guys are, for their haircuts. And, I mean, I just looking at that.

But I mean, the bigger question is, he is losing money on his golf resorts and his hotels. He makes money on the branding matters, as well as "The Apprentice," and then you deduct those losses off his federal income taxes.

I mean, it's simply stunning that, you know, the president of United States could have such a limited tax liability, opens up all kinds of questions about, you know, income fairness, income inequality, and you know, who's paying their fair share. I mean, this is really stunning.

And that the President, if I were Joe Biden right now, I would just, you know, this issue home at the debate. I would ask the question, what are you hiding? Prove the New York Times wrong, you know, reveal your tax returns. What are you hiding? I mean, this is really very easy.

I mean, I'd like to hear the President's explanation, because real working people in this country are paying a hell lot more in federal income tax, and they can't deduct. Last time I checked, close to two- thirds of Americans didn't itemize. And so tax rates matter to them, and they pay. How is the President get away?

CAMEROTA: Rick, your thoughts?

RICK SANTUROM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first off, President Trump lower taxes, and I think most taxpayers are happy that he did lower taxes. And Joe Biden says he wants to increase taxes. So I think on the tax issue, if Joe Biden goes out and starts talking about taxes, I think that's a winner for Donald Trump.

CAMEROTA: But what about his personal taxes, Rick? I mean, not just his policy, though, obviously his policy is, we now know, colored by so much of this, but what about that? I mean, do you find it galling that he paid no taxes and paid $750 in taxes for the past two years as president?

SANTORUM: Well, you know, I would say if the President's losing money, you shouldn't pay in taxes. You can't complain that he's not paying any taxes, and they criticize him for losing. If he's losing money, he's not going to be paying taxes.

I mean, so, you know, that -- and as you know, there's all sorts of, particularly in real estate, there's all sorts of deals that are done in real estate that don't necessarily turn a lot of profit on paper that actually have tax benefits. So, look --

CAMEROTA: Yes. And are you comfortable with the morality, (inaudible) are you comfortable with the morality of all of that, that rich people can gain the system like that?

SANTORUM: Well, look, I mean, yes. The answer is, if you have a lot of money you can -- no matter what you do with the tax system, you can always game it. I mean, that's just the reality of the situation. And, you know, Donald Trump's been very forthright, and I'm sure he will be at the debate that he like paying taxes and he's going to do everything he can not to pay tax. And this is a guy who's been very, very clear about that.

CAMEROTA: Yes, and that's OK?

SANTORUM: Well, he structures his -- if he structures it according to law. The question is, is he doing anything illegal, and I don't think there's any claim of that. And by the way, your Time refuses to share the information with Trump. I mean, they're refusing to show that they, in fact, have those documents that Trump campaign --

[07:35:00] CAMEROTA: So you don't -- are you doubting whether the New York Times is really reporting on this? Because that's what President Trump is saying. Is that you're saying, Rick?

SANTORUM: I'm not sure you want to go there with the New York Times. I mean, how many Russian stories are --

CAMEROTA: You doubt that they actually have the information?

SANTORUM: Yes, I doubt. Because how many Russian stories turned out to be not true. But the reverse of what we're now finding out about what's going on in the FBI. So I just -- I just think there's a lot of questions there.

DENT: Donald Trump says he's worth $10 billion, and he's losing money. How do you lose millions of dollars a year, then accumulate wealth of $10 billion and pay almost no federal income tax? I mean, I want to know that. I mean, as a voter, as a taxpayer, people want to know that.

CAMEROTA: What's the answer, Rick? What's the answer? How is that math work?

SANTORUM: You know, again, the Trump campaign says that this is not true, that he's paid 10 -- he's paid taxes, I think they said 10 to 15 years --

CAMEROTA: And they should release the taxes like other presidents have.

SANTORUM: Well, maybe the New York Times should release it to the to the Trump campaign.

CAMEROTA: You don't think that President Trump should release the taxes to prove his point?

SANTORUM: You know, I think the ship is damaged in the eyes of both the public, so now I don't think this match.

CAMEROTA: Do you guys hear a hard rock right now?

SANTORUM: Yes, I sure do. It's not me.

CAMEROTA: Wow. That's just, I don't know, just some hard rock for your morning.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It's a version of come together. Identify, it's a cover of come together.

CAMEROTA: It's cover of it? Why are they wrapping me? I can go on with this.

BERMAN: I don't think -- unless you have the tax discussion with the background.

CAMEROTA: Guys, we're going to explain. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:40:54]

CAMEROTA: Just when you think 2020 can get weirder, somebody starts playing hard rock in your air. I was in the middle of an interview with Charlie Dent and Rick Santorum, and we still hear the music. But we're happy to hear that the viewers cannot hear it.

Guys, we're going to muddle through this. Even though there's a drum solo in our ears right now, and you're not crazy. I hear it too, but the viewers don't. And I feel like it's fitting somehow actually for what we're talking about.

Rick, I want to talk about President Trump's taxes. Here's something else we've learned. He promised he wasn't going to do foreign deals and make any money when he became president. We now know that was not true. He has gotten millions of dollars from the Philippines and Turkey. And in fact, he has paid more money to the governments of the Philippines and Panama, than he has to the US government. Your thoughts?

SANTORUM: Well, again, all those things are being denied by the Trump campaign, so let me just state that up front. And, you know, if there are relationships to, particularly to Turkish government and Philippine government agencies, that's an issue.

Obviously, if they're private entities within Turkey and the Philippines, that that's a different story. If they're doing business there, it wouldn't be surprising that they have loans from banks in those countries. So again, it all depends on the specifics as to how problematic it is.

CAMEROTA: Charlie, your thoughts?

DENT: Oh, my goodness. He pays more money to foreign governments than he does in the United States. I mean, again, the issue becomes this, the President must reveal his tax returns. We need to understand this better, because we can't get all this in front. We're not -- he's obviously concealing something here. You know, this raises all kinds of questions about tax fairness and, obviously, income inequality.

So I think the President's got himself a huge problem here. And, you know, the President has said repeatedly. He just said, he is basically saying that he's smart by avoiding these taxes. That assumes that the rest of us aren't so smart, that we're dumb, that we pay our taxes that we owe. I think he owes the American people an explanation.

CAMEROTA: And, Rick, what about the idea that for all these years, he hasn't paid into kind of the national pocketbook that we all pay into, in terms of the defense budget, in terms of trying to pay down the national debt that has run up on his watch. What about that?

SANTORUM: Well, first off, the President gives back his salary to the Treasury. So that's, you know, that's one thing. I mean, number two, he, you know, again, I'm not going to criticize someone for the way they run their business. If the President, number one, if he's if his business is losing money --

CAMEROTA: And does that bother you that he loses so many millions of dollars? I mean, that he just made these horrendous business deals, that he loses just a shocking amount of money?

SANTORUM: Well, I mean, clearly, the President has resources and, you know, the President, you know, certainly has a lot of property, and has a lot of a lot of enterprises going on. The fact that they may be losing money or structured in a way that that they are losing money, obviously that's that that's his decision, and that's, you know, you talk about, you know, all of these properties, losing money over the last three years and then you say the President's profiting from being present.

I don't know how you square those two things. You have the presence not profiting from being present, or are these places are making money, so.

CAMEROTA: Well, why? Why are they -- why is it either or? You can lose money on your golf courses, which it appears that he is, and you can make money from your foreign deals. Those aren't mutual.

SANTORUM: Well, again, we don't know that and we don't even know. I don't think the New York Times claim he's making money from his foreign deals. I mean, the bottom line is that the President has obviously has resources.

[07:45:00]

The President obviously has, you know, has businesses, lots of business. And, at least, I know some of them are doing well because, you know, I'm happy to be familiar with some of them, so.

CAMEROTA: Then maybe he should pay more than $750.

SANTORUM: Again, you know, that's a different issue, whether the President pays taxes or whether the President's businesses are "failing". I mean, those are two different issues.

CAMEROTA: All right. Charlie, Rick, thank you guys for being professionals that you can talk through all of this while hearing music in your ears. Thanks so much. That was weird. Great to talk to both of you.

SANTORUM: Thanks, Ali.

DENT: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BERMAN: All right. This morning, imagine suffering horrible, debilitating symptoms of coronavirus, being flat out for days or weeks rushing to the emergency room, only to take a test or tests that come back negative.

Joining me now is Julia Ioffe. This is happening to her and Julie is a Correspondent for GQ Magazine and has just written a story about this ongoing experience. Julia, let me just start by asking how you're feeling?

JULIA IOFFE, CORRESPONDENT, GQ MAGAZINE: Hi. So I'm actually not feeling terrible. I'm, you know, I haven't been actively sick for a couple weeks now but I'm still recovering. I'm still nowhere near normal. You know how you feel after you have the flu, you're kind of clammy, you get tired and pretty weak easily. I still get a little bit short of breath. So I've been feeling like that for about a couple weeks now.

BERMAN: So just tell us what you feel --

IOFFE: And that's after being --

BERMAN: What you did feel like and what you went through in terms of your symptoms?

IOFFE: Yes. Well, it was this weird slow moving rollercoaster for about five weeks with symptoms coming and going. You know, my smell and taste, going in and out, you know, getting chills, and then feeling totally fine. And then slowly, I just got worse and worse and worse. And by the end of week three, I felt this incredible tightness in my chest, had this crazy cough.

And over Labor Day, I just felt like I couldn't breathe. And my oxygen levels just started sliding further and further, and further. And by that point, I had had three negative tests. And my primary care physician, along with several other doctors I talked to were like, you definitely have COVID. You got to go to the ER.

BERMAN: And you went to the ER and you had still another test, I think, which also came back negative. And all of this spawned this remarkable article you've written, which really delves into what you went through in the idea that, according to the experts you spoke with, this can happen.

These doctors are convinced you had COVID-19, you went through the worst of coronavirus, but still continued to test negative. So how can it happen?

IOFFE: Well, there's a number of reasons. You could have a very low viral load, for example, and still feel sick. And that can get in under the threshold, and we're talking about the PCR test. The other thing is they're not, no test is 100% accurate. And even if a test is 98% accurate, which some of these now are, but many aren't.

We have so many tests on the market. We don't have a gold standard still, in part because the government so badly fumbled in response to the coronavirus. We have 165 different tests out there. And, you know, the possibility of spitting out of a false negative range anywhere from 2% to 30%, that's a huge range.

And even if you even if your false positive rate is 2% at the level, at the scale of testing we're doing, that 2%, you know, if you test a million people, 2%, you know, that's still a number, you know, that's a ton of false negatives that can then spawn chains of transmission.

The other thing is, these tests are mostly, you know, they're either nasal swabs, so they swab the insides of your nostrils or their nasal pharyngeal swabs, and, you know, they go back all the way back to the back of your throat, they feel like they're going to come out the back of your head.

But the virus as we know enters through your nose and mouth, and your eyes a little bit, but it drops pretty quickly into your lungs. And so, these might not even be false negatives. They might accurately be telling you that there's (inaudible) nose, just lungs. And the only way we can test for that really is if you're hospitalized and intubated.

So, if you're not sick enough, you know, thank God. To be intubated and have your lung fluid tested, you're never going to know.

BERMAN: This infuriates some people. A lot of the armchair experts that have watched us for the last six months of this pandemic, get really upset when doctors tell people that they have COVID-19 or have coronavirus without testing positive. And you even talk about the fact that you have friends who've been telling you the whole time you're crazy. So what's that like?

[07:50:00]

IOFFE: It's really -- I don't know how to put it. It's not infuriating because you don't have the energy to be angry. But, you know, when you're sick for that long and you're that sick, and you can't breathe, people telling you you're making it up is, you know, disheartening.

I should add, none of these people are doctors, and every doctor I spoke to and every doctor that has evaluated me said, I mean, you very obviously have it. And I think we, as a society, want certainty. This is a brand new virus. We know a lot more about it than we did in the spring, but there's still a lot we don't know.

And we want to know, we want to get back to normal. We've been living these abnormal lives for eight months now, a little less, in some cases. We want to get back to normal and people want to be able to take a test, know that it's negative. And, you know, go to the beach house or join their, you know, their families across the country after taking a plane. But there's no perfect test.

And one of the things I came across in reporting this piece is this thing called Bayes' theorem, which allows doctors and encourages doctors to take what they're seeing into account, to not just rely on the test. And it, you know, is always in the fine print when you get your test results.

Basically, if somebody is showing symptoms, classic symptoms of COVID, like loss of taste, and smell, which you don't get with other upper respiratory diseases. You know, even if the test is negative, err on the side of caution, treat them like they have COVID and definitely tell them to isolate. BERMAN: Bottom line is this is a new virus, there's still so much

we're learning every day. We're glad you're feeling better. And we hope that does continue. This is a long road to recovery. So thank you for joining us. Also, thank you for the article. People should go check it out because I learned a ton in reading it. Really appreciate it.

IOFFE: I'm so glad to hear that. Thank you.

BERMAN: Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: All right. We want to remember now some of the nearly 205,000 Americans lost to coronavirus.

Mike Wolfe (ph) was beloved in Wayne County, Iowa for many reasons, especially playing Santa Claus every Christmas for 30 years. His family says he was just as jolly in real life. He leaves behind a wife, five children and 17 grandchildren. He was 66 years old.

Forty-six-year-old Charles Peterson (ph) played minor league baseball for 14 seasons starting in the Pittsburgh Pirates system, before becoming a professional scout for the St. Louis Cardinals. The Cardinals scouting director told the New York Times that Peterson was everything that's fun about scouting.

Fifty-seven-year-old Shirley Bannister (ph) chaired the Nursing Department at Midlands Technical College in Columbia, South Carolina. The college president says she was "like an angel on Earth." Her life mission was caring for others. She was the mother of Demetria Bannister (ph), you remember her. She was the elementary school teacher who was only 28 years old, who also recently died of the virus. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:57:10]

BERMAN: This morning, the world is approaching 1 million deaths from coronavirus. This is India has just passed 7 million cases. CNN has reporters all around the world bringing you the latest developments.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Scott McLean in London where coronavirus outbreaks on university campuses have prompted Scotland to ban students from restaurants and bars, while some 1,700 students at a campus in Manchester are being forced to quarantine inside their dorm rooms. The British health secretary has not ruled out the possibility of asking students not to go home for the Christmas break to prevent the virus from spreading off campus.

Meanwhile, the Prime Minister Boris Johnson is facing a revolt from within his own party. A group of conservative MPs are pushing an amendment which would require Parliament to sign off on any new coronavirus restrictions.

MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Melissa Bell in Paris where those COVID-19 figures continue to worsen nationally. The positivity rates continue to climb. And most worryingly, the number of people in ICU has nearly tripled over the course of the month of September. Hence, the new regulations in 11 cities including Paris bars will be made to close at 10:00 pm from tonight. Social gathering is limited as well.

And in Maxi, bars and restaurants closed altogether. The authorities say it is all about once again ensuring that the health system continues to cope.

VEDIKA SUD, CNN REPORTER: I'm Vedika Sud in New Delhi. India surpassed over 6 million confirmed cases of COVID-19 on Monday morning. The country has the second highest number of confirmed cases of the virus after the US. Over a million cases of the infection have been recorded in just 12 days. India also has the third highest death toll with over 95,500 fatalities reported.

According to India's health ministry, the country's recovery rate stands at 82.6%. Nearly 72 million samples have been tested for COVID- 19 as of Sunday.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Our thanks to our reporters all around the world. "New Day" continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: BERMAN: A bombshell New York Times report says Donald Trump didn't pay any federal income taxes for 10 of the 15 years before his election.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: The story is a total fake. It's totally fake news.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This report is a devastating picture of a president who is bleeding financially and depending on the presidency to prop him up financially.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Globally, coronavirus debts are approaching one million. Dr. Fauci cautions, we are still in the first wave of the coronavirus and has warned infection rates will likely rise.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The virus is not going away. So we're not turning the corner. We're not on the final turn.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is "New Day" with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

CAMEROTA: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is "New Day" and the mystery is over. Breaking news, the New York Times has obtained two decades worth of Donald Trump's tax records.