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NYT Publishes Details Of Trump's Taxes After Years Of Secrecy; Reporting Reveals President Trump Paid $750 In Federal Taxes In 2016 And 2017; Wildfires Threaten Wine Country In California; Nearly 205,000 COVID Deaths In The U.S., More Than Seven Million Cases. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired September 28, 2020 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY.

And the mystery is over. Breaking news, the "New York Times" has obtained two decades worth of Donald Trump's tax records. Here is just one headline, "President's taxes chart chronic losses, an audit battle, and income tax avoidance."

"The Times" reports that President Trump paid no income tax for years, 10 years, using a loophole that allowed him to deduct massive losses from bad business decisions. In 2016 and 2017, Mr. Trump paid just $750 in federal taxes. That includes of course his first year as president. The American, the average American in 2017 paid 16 times more than the president, the self-proclaimed billionaire in the Oval Office. Joe Biden paid a lot more. He paid $3.7 million more than Mr. Trump in his filing.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I built my own graphics because I think this is such an easy story to understand -- $750, $750, this is what the guy who says he's a billionaire paid in taxes his first two years in office, federal taxes. There's another big number in this story which is super important as well -- $421 million. "The Times" says he has $421 million in loans due over the next few years, which raises the question of whether the presidency is some kind of financial protection plan.

We have other new important news this morning -- 21 states seeing a rise in coronavirus cases. And there's one chart that I want everyone to pay attention to this morning, this is the seven-day average of hospitalizations. It's been dropping since July, but you can see it stopped dropping. It started to level off and maybe even begin to go up again. Increased hospitalizations invariably leads to increased deaths.

We have a lot to talk about now. Joining me is Tom Ridge. He was Homeland Security secretary under George W. Bush as well as the Republican governor of Pennsylvania, a former Republican governor who has just endorsed Joe Biden for president. Secretary Ridge says it will be the first time he will ever cast his ballot for a Democratic presidential candidate.

Secretary Ridge, thank you for being with us. I want to talk about your endorsement in a second. First, though, you grew up in public housing, veterans housing in Erie, Pennsylvania, with working people. How do you take this news in the "New York Times" this morning that the president paid $750 in taxes his first two years in office, $750? Compare that to what the people you grew up with in public housing in Erie no doubt paid in their taxes every year.

TOM RIDGE, FORMER SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Well, there are many aspects to that story. One, what I find probably more troubling than anything is that in 2015 and 2016 during the campaign, he had said, well, I'm going to release my tax records. I'll let the world see how successful I've been and what I've been doing with the money that I've been able to generate appropriately.

So the fact that he has paid $750 annually in income tax is revealing of many, many things. Most of all, I think it kind of reveals the lack of transparency, the lack of honesty, and his inability ultimately I think to connect with people who scramble, maybe two household incomes, scramble to pay $1,000 or $2,000 in taxes, and it speaks to not only the lack of transparency, but I think historically, he's shown a tremendous lack of empathy and appreciation for those people who struggle with limited income.

He certainly doesn't live the lifestyle of limited income although he's paying taxes as if he has limited income, and he professes to be different. But he has no empathy and there's no transparency there. That's probably more disturbing than anything else.

BERMAN: That's why I brought it up, because, again, you grew up in Erie. Pennsylvania has got a lot of cities like Erie where people struggle to get by and people pay their taxes. They pay more than the $750. Just so people can see it, the average tax filer pays $12,000 in taxes every year. It's a lot different. I think people in Pennsylvania might look at this and say this is a lot different than what we're going through right now.

RIDGE: Well, I'm just say, I don't think anyone should be surprised with these revelations. One, it has taken four years for people even to find this little bit of information, but this is not an individual that's transparent about anything. He promised we'd see his tax returns. This is a man who way back in 2015, when I decided that -- and I've always thought that character in leadership, I want to find out about those things before I worry about public policy.

[08:05:00]

And while I'm a little bit, not quite as responsive, I want to go back to you and say this is 2015 when I distanced myself -- and he is my president, but this man who wanted to be president, who wouldn't release his tax returns like every other candidates had done. This is a man who wanted to be president who never served in the military but thought prisoners of war lacked courage.

This is a man who early on mocked a journalist, and more importantly mocked a journalist with a disability. This is a man who showed absolutely no appreciation whatsoever for the religious, racial, and social diversity of America, and he wanted to be president. And it's been all downhill since then. And so is anybody surprised when we find out that he probably hasn't paid any taxes at all? Why are we surprised?

BERMAN: Secretary Ridge, as you noted, you came out against then candidate Trump as early as 2015, yet the 2020 election is the first election you say you are going to vote for a Democratic presidential candidate. So this time it's different. In 2016, you didn't vote for Trump but you didn't vote for Hillary Clinton either. Why this time are you going that extra step in voting for the Democratic presidential candidate in this case, Joe Biden?

RIDGE: Well, a couple of things that probably pushed me over the edge. One, I wanted to make my voice heard, particularly to the people I love and respect, and it gave me an opportunity to lead them in Pennsylvania, and so I asked the "Philadelphia Inquirer" if they would post my thoughts on this.

Secondly, he's never appealed to the better angel of our natures. He hasn't rallied our humanity around this scourge of mother nature. If he'd have put a mask on and held a press conference at CDC, saying the fury of mother nature is going to be on us shortly, let's work this out together, let's wear masks, let's do the social distancing. Leaders, leaders don't cut ribbons. Leaders respond and react in time of crisis. This is the first crisis he had, and he hasn't led us through this at all.

And then finally, when he's in Pennsylvania and around the country, he's saying to my fellow Pennsylvanians, if you vote absentee, your votes don't count. And I just wanted to appeal to my friends in Pennsylvania, Republicans and Democrats, your votes will count. We have guardians of democracy at the local level.

We know there's going to be an unprecedented number of absentee ballots, so every vote will count. Be patient. So the reason I'm doing it now is because I think there was an urgency in my head, in my heart to appeal to Pennsylvanians. Let the process work itself out. We'll make sure your votes are counted, but vote, vote, vote. Whether it's absentee or in person, vote.

BERMAN: Secretary, you are a marine, a decorated Vietnam veteran, so I am curious how it hit you, "The Atlantic" reports that President Trump had called military veterans, including those who had died in service, losers and suckers. How did that strike you?

RIDGE: I'm not quite I heard -- it was a little bit confusing. The audio wasn't real good there, but nothing he does anymore that seems untoward, inappropriate, unpresidential surprises me. We've become numb to his indiscretions, numb to his attacks, numb to his denigration of people that disagree, numb to the fact that he can't tolerate dissent.

One of the challenges that I think anyone in politics has to understand and appreciate is in a pluralistic society with differences of opinion, those who seek and ultimately hold public office need to understand that criticism in protest is part of this great experience in self-government called democracy.

So nothing he says in those regards surprised me at all. It just further confirms what I suspect that back in 2015 when I decided there's no civility there, there's no humanity there, there's no leadership there, I just can't support him for president. And I want to ensure my fellow Pennsylvanians understood my views haven't changed in five years.

BERMAN: Secretary Ridge, thank you very much for being with us this morning. Thank you for bearing through some audio difficulties. We appreciate your time this morning, as always, sir.

RIDGE: Good to be with you. And I say to Americans, Republicans and Democrats, vote. Vote in person, vote absentee. Your vote can and must be counted. Thank you for the opportunity to spend some time with you this morning.

BERMAN: Thanks, Secretary.

CAMEROTA: Such a great message.

We have more breaking news for you. Raging wildfires are burning in California's wine country this morning, and they are spreading. New video shows some homes here burning to the ground. A mandatory evacuation order is in effect for thousands of residents in parts of Napa and Sonoma Counties. CNN's Dan Simon is live in St. Helena, California, with breaking details there. What's happening, Dan?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Alisyn. California's wine country, it appears to be once again under siege with fire really taking over the hills behind me in Napa County.

[08:10:05]

And you can see that glow behind me very ominous. And we know that the fire is close to the town of St. Helena, which is known for its lush vineyards and its popular and historic wineries. The fire also getting close to the town of Santa Rosa, which was devastated just a couple of years ago by fire. It appears, Alisyn, that people are heeding these evacuation orders. We've seen cars along the major freeway here going south, getting to safety.

And once again that glow behind me very ominous. The fire is being pushed by very strong winds. The area is under a red flag warning until tonight. It's clear that fire crews are definitely going to have their hands full with this one. Again, a large-scale evacuation taking place, but the bottom line here is it appears that, as unbelievable as it sounds, California could be looking at another major catastrophe. Alisyn, back to you.

CAMEROTA: Dan, just horrible. Thank you very much for being on the ground there for us.

Up next, CNN has new reporting about one of President Trump's key coronavirus advisers. Why Dr. Scott Atlas is worrying health officials this morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:15:06]

CAMEROTA: This morning, there are spikes in coronavirus cases in, I believe, 21 states across the country. Perhaps we can put up the map of that. But this time it's different. Something feels different to all of our medical experts this morning.

So let's bring in Dr. William Haseltine. He is of course the Professor of Harvard Medical School and Harvard School of Public Health, former Professor, and also the author of "COVID Back to School Guide." Hi, Dr. Haseltine.

DR. WILLIAM HASELTINE, CHAIR AND PRESIDENT, ACCESS HEALTH INTERNATIONAL: Hi, it's a pleasure to be here.

CAMEROTA: Pleasure to have you. We have been talking to you obviously for months now and every time we put up the map, the states fluctuate and the numbers fluctuate but why does this morning feel so different to you?

HASELTINE: It's across the board pretty much, and it's even in places like New York and Massachusetts, that seemed to have controlled the epidemic. It is also very solidly all throughout the Midwest, rural communities, which had hoped never to see this problem.

Not only that, but it looks like it's continuing around the world in other countries that have controlled it previously -- Spain, France, Great Britain. This is a second wave not caused by the weather, but caused by behavior. People loosened up their restrictions and it comes on.

BERMAN: So professor Haseltine, if we can, we are getting some breaking news that details are scant and we have been trying to figure out exactly what is reportable, but I believe the part we can say at this point is that CNN has learned that C.D.C. Director, Robert Redfield is concerned that President Trump is getting misinformation about the pandemic now.

He is being told things that are not true about the pandemic, specifically by the man he brought in to be his new adviser on coronavirus issues and that's Dr. Scott Atlas from Stanford University.

Dr. Redfield is said to be concerned that Dr. Atlas is saying things that are not true. What could those be?

We know that Dr. Atlas in the past has made statements about herd immunity. He claims he is not promoting herd immunity to the President but we know it is something that Dr. Atlas has talked about in the past.

We also, last week, heard Dr. Atlas at the podium directly contradict Dr. Redfield on the number of Americans who might still be susceptible to coronavirus. Dr. Redfield said it may be 90 percent, and Dr. Atlas went up there and said no, Redfield is completely wrong here, so you can see some of the tension here. What do you make of it?

HASELTINE: Well, first of all, there is no such thing as herd immunity for coronaviruses. If you've got coronavirus once, you can get it again. If you get COVID-19 once, you can get it again.

The concept of herd immunity is a murderous concept given the nature of this disease. Conservatively, in the first year or two, two million to six million Americans would die if we do nothing, which is basically what herd immunity argues and those deaths would have been in vain because herd immunity -- it looks increasingly like herd immunity does not exist for this virus. People get re-infected and there's great evidence it shows.

Now, when it comes to Dr. Atlas, I don't think he is Dr. Atlas. He is a cut-out for a more powerful voice that has for the entire year tried to ignore this problem. But he says you don't need masks. It's not his voice you're hearing. It's his boss' voice. When he says you don't need to social distance, you can go to bars, it's not his voice. It's his boss' voice.

Dr. Atlas is not a serious person to consider his voice in public health matters other than he is dangerous, but he is working for somebody who has got a powerful voice that has failed to contain this epidemic. It is a very distressing situation.

CAMEROTA: And what does it mean, Professor, that Dr. Redfield is telling people this now that he is so concerned? We've heard Dr. Fauci speaking, I think, more openly about his concerns about which voice is going to be guiding policy and we've heard behind the scenes that Dr. Birx herself is concerned. I mean, what are Americans to make of all of this?

HASELTINE: It's not Dr. Atlas they should be concerned about, it is his boss. And that is what the issue is. There is a leader of our country that does not want us to wear masks, that does not want us to inhibit spreading the virus by closing bars. It's more concerned about what's happening with the economy, when the fact is, the very fact that this disease is spreading is what is causing damage to our economy.

Other countries in Asia, have closed down this epidemic and their economies are opened up again. That's what we should be focusing on.

There are very simple things we can do: wearing masks, taking tests, avoiding crowds that could change the course of what you just talked about at the top of our session, which is this disease spreading throughout the heartland of our country, and back again in our major cities.

[08:20:18]

BERMAN: I can tell you what I'm concerned about, which is the seven- day moving average of hospitalizations, it is something that Scott Gottlieb, former F.D.A. Commissioner was talking about yesterday. You can see the hospitalization rate had been dropping since July but it has stopped dropping and there are some signs it might actually be increasing again.

Hospitalizations is just hard, brutal data, because when the hospitalizations go up, it invariably means the deaths go up as well.

So when you look at that, Professor, what do you see?

HASELTINE: Well, what I see is the first thing that's happened once we started to loosen up over the summer and now that people are back in cities and back to work is you see that younger people are getting infected.

They are relatively resistant to the more serious consequences of this infection, but then it moves into the older population, which is very sensitive. So that is exactly what everybody was predicting would happen, an increase in the numbers of young people, followed by an increase of numbers in older people, followed by more hospitalizations, followed by more death, and that is why the C.D.C. and other agencies have rejected over 3,000 deaths by the end of the year, closer to 400,000.

It's that process which we see working out as was expected as has been predicted. This is no longer a mystery disease entirely. We now know its face very intimately from seeing the death and destruction that it's wrought.

BERMAN: Professor Haseltine, thank you for being with us this morning. Thank you for understanding or helping us understand the breaking news on the Coronavirus Taskforce. Appreciate your time, sir.

HASELTINE: You're welcome.

BERMAN: There is other breaking news this morning. The mystery appears to be over. We finally know what's in President Trump's taxes. This breathtaking article in "The New York Times" and just one of the headlines is this. $750.00, I'll hold it up again.

CAMEROTA: Technically that's a graphic, not a headline.

BERMAN: That's a good point. This is our high-tech graphic here. This is what the President paid in Federal income taxes his first year in office. Much more next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:26:18]

BERMAN: One of the things that President Trump has worked on harder than anything else is keeping the details of his tax returns secret from the American people. He has gone to enormous ends, including appeals all the way to the Supreme Court, but this morning, part of the fight is over. We have the details, thanks to "The New York Times."

Among the revelations in "The New York Times" this morning is the President paid no taxes for much of the last 15 years and his tax bill was just $750.00 in 2016 and 2017.

Here to discuss, investigative reporter, David Cay Johnston. He is author of "The Making of Donald Trump" and has done extensive work and reporting on the president's finances, also with us CNN political analyst and legendary journalist, Carl Bernstein.

And gentlemen, I appreciate you being with us. To me, really, the two numbers that jump off the page here is what I just said, the $750.00, that's what the President paid in taxes his first two years in office, but then, Carl, the other number that I think people need to know is $421 million. This is what the President owes. These are the loans that will come due over the next four or five years. So when you see this article, Carl, what's your major takeaway?

CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: That Donald Trump and his family are grifters, and they have created -- he has created the first grifter presidency in the history of the United States, in which his purpose in running for the presidency and exercising the powers of the presidency, the fundamental reason is to bail himself and his family out.

It shows in policy. It shows in his foreign relationships especially with Erdogan of Turkey, and others. It shows the fundamental corruption and criminality of Donald Trump, and now we have the definitive evidence, and he is trying to make the conduct of the press the issue, instead of the conduct of himself in his refusal to pay taxes adequately, and also to keep them secret.

This is the smoking gun about who Donald Trump really is, and what his presidency really is.

CAMEROTA: David, you've obviously done deep dives into Donald Trump's finances for years and for people who wake up thinking all right, well he gamed the system. He gamed the I.R.S. Good on him. You see real illegality here.

DAVID CAY JOHNSTON, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Oh, yes. Well Donald, remember, had two civil tax fraud trials, a story I broke four years ago. He lost them both. He just manufactured out of thin air deductions. That's a criminal offense if you do it more than once.

And "The New York Times" reporting makes very clear that Trump has ginned up deductions which is clearly what the New York prosecutors are looking at, among other things in the state level case. This also shows, as Carl pointed out that Donald Trump financially needs the presidency to bail himself out and his family, and we should be very concerned that we have a President who is using our government the way he's done everything in his life.

Donald is the third generation head of a four-generation white collar crime family.

BERNSTEIN: That's right.

BERMAN: Go ahead, Carl. BERNSTEIN: Yes, it's just been defined by David perfectly. Two years

ago, I went to visit one of the accountants who set up this tax structure for Donald Trump, and what he told me was that the tax structure itself was designed to minimize the amount of tax paid like many real estate families have such schemes.

[08:30:07]