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New Day
CDC Pressured to Downplay Risks; Kentucky AG to Release Grand Jury Recording; Jail Time Over Tax Revelations. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired September 29, 2020 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[06:34:00]
OLIVIA TROYE, FORMER STAFF MEMBER FOR VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: This was an effort, you know, at times where I would get blindsided, where there would be junior staffers being tasked to find different data for charts that would show that the virus wasn't as bad for certain populations, ages or demographics.
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JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So that's Olivia Troye, a former top aide to Vice President Mike Pence. She will be with us, by the way, later in the broadcast. She's confirming a "New York Times" report that top White House officials pressured the CDC to play down the risk that coronavirus poses to children so that schools could reopen.
Joining us now, CNN medical analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner. He's a professor of medicine at George Washington University.
Dr. Reiner, great to have you here.
This really does fit into this larger story, where the White House, the political operation in the White House, has been trying to muscle the science. And the science that it doesn't like, it ignores.
What do you see in this story?
DR. JONATHAN REINER, PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: Exactly. It conforms to what Bob Woodward wrote about in his book, where, from the beginning, the president has been trying to play down the risks to the public and manage the message.
[06:35:13]
So, you know, typically, what -- what you would do is, you would create policy based on what the data shows. But we're seeing exactly the opposite. This is -- this is really non-science. What we're seeing is creating policy first and then searching for data to support your policy initiative.
So instead of looking at how -- how best to open schools, how safest to open schools, what the administration did is decide that they were going to push the opening of schools and then force the various agencies to find the data that supported their pre-determined viewpoint. And that's how this pandemic has been managed.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And -- yes, it's been reverse engineered.
REINER: Right.
CAMEROTA: But more importantly, it means that parents and school administrators got bad information. And what happened was that -- that the CDC, when they couldn't find the data to support opening schools, what some of the White House officials pressured -- what they did was they went to a different agency, a different government agency that has no expertise in this field.
REINER: Right.
CAMEROTA: So what they went to was the Substance Abuse and mental Health Services Administration. And here's what "The New York Times" reports. The documents worked on by the mental health agency struck a different tone from the cautious approach being proposed by the CDC, warning that school closures would have a long-term effect on the mental health of children. It said that, quote, very few reports of children being the primary source of Covid-19 transmission among family members have emerged, end quote, and asserted that children who are asymptomatic were unlikely to spread the virus. All of that we now know is not true.
REINER: Right. And that became essentially the first paragraph -- the first paragraph in the CDC school opening guidelines, right? That's what they stressed right at the top, while most people would read -- and maybe not read much -- much further.
Look, we know that children between 10 and 18 transmit the virus at least as well, maybe even more vigorously than adults. And that is the -- that's always been the concern about opening schools. We've known from the beginning that it appears that children have catastrophic events from this virus, very, very infrequently. But the concern is community transmission as a consequence of opening schools. And that's the kind of data that the administration sought to suppress.
BERMAN: Yes. And there's, obviously, nuances that we're learning every day to this.
REINER: Right.
BERMAN: There's new science out just today which talks about older children, 10 to 19 years old --
REINER: Yes.
BERMAN: And how much more they spread it than younger children, and they spread it just likes adult. And these are just the facts. It's nuanced. People need to know this as they're making decisions for their children.
As you said, Dr. Reiner, it does seem as if this administration is making its decision and trying to go find the science, or manipulate the science, to back it up. And they're doing it on a personnel level, also. The president brought in Dr. Scott Atlas to be an adviser on the coronavirus task force, largely seems to reinforce the views that he already had, that he wanted. And then Dr. Redfield, who leads up the CDC, has been saying over the last few days that he's concerned that Dr. Atlas is spreading misinformation. He was quoted by one news source as saying what Dr. Atlas is saying, everything he's saying, is wrong.
Our Brian Stelter talked to Anthony Fauci yesterday about this dynamic within the task force. And listen to what Dr. Fauci said.
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DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I'm concerned that sometimes things are said that are really taken either out of context or are actually incorrect.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN HOST, "RELIABLE SOURCES": But these news stories about Atlas and Redfield, they get to this question of, are the medical voices on the task force working together or working against each other?
FAUCI: Well, most are working together. I think, you know, the -- what the outlier is.
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BERMAN: You know what the outlier is. Again, that's quite a statement from Dr. Fauci, Dr. Reiner.
REINER: I love Tony Fauci because he tells you exactly the way it is.
Right. So the administration brought in Dr. Atlas, not for his expertise on pandemic management, or for his experience in virology or infectious diseases, or even in internal medicine for that matter. He's a radiologist. They brought him in for his political views and for being -- and for basically becoming an echo chamber for -- for the president.
Look, Dr. Atlas -- I mean I say this at the risk of getting a nasty letter from his lawyer. Dr. Atlas doesn't really have much experience in this, but he does have very, very well-formed views about herd immunity, which he testified before Congress about the risks to children and about open -- about opening the economy. And they brought him in because his opinions perfectly mirror those of the president.
[06:40:04]
BERMAN: Dr. Reiner --
REINER: And not of the rest of the task force.
BERMAN: Dr. Reiner, we appreciate you being with us this morning, as always.
REINER: Yes.
BERMAN: Thank you very much.
REINER: My pleasure.
BERMAN: We have news today involving the killing of Breonna Taylor. Kentucky's attorney general now says he will release the grand jury recordings in the case. What one juror did that is leading to this action, next.
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CAMEROTA: Breaking news, Kentucky's attorney general, Daniel Cameron, says he will release a recording of the grand jury proceedings in the Breonna Taylor case. Cameron also admitting that the only charge he recommended to the grand jury was unrelated to Taylor's death.
CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is live in Louisville, Kentucky, with more.
Why did he do that, Shimon?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, this all comes after an unprecedented step by a grand juror, someone who actually was in the grand jury, was one of the 12 jurors who was hearing evidence in this case, late yesterday filed a motion with the court. This person -- we don't know who the person is.
[06:45:01]
They filed a motion to put pressure on the attorney general to release this information because they say that the attorney general mischaracterized their work. And in response to that, the attorney general issued this statement. He said that the grand jury is meant to be a secretive body. It's apparent that the public interest in this case isn't going to allow that to happen. As the special prosecutor, our team has an ethical obligation not to release the recording from the grand jury proceedings. And we stand by our belief that such a release could compromise the ongoing federal investigation and could have unintended consequences such as poisoning the jury pool.
So clearly here now they're taking a different position. They are going to release this information.
The grand juror who filed the motion wrote about how the attorney general mischaracterized their work. And here's what that jury said. That the Attorney General Cameron attempted to make it very clear that the grand jury alone made the decision on who and what to charge. Using the grand jurors as a shield to deflect accountability and responsibility for these decisions only sows more seeds of doubt in the process while leaving a cold chill down the spine of grand juries.
Now, the attorney general initially said that he would not release it, because it was secretive and it was a secretive proceeding. But there's been a lot of controversy surrounding exactly what evidence the grand jury in this case heard. It was as the family had suspected, and lawyers for the family, and many of the people who took to the streets of Louisville here have said that they believe that they did not present any evidence related to the killing of Breonna Taylor. And that appears to be the case. We may get this information today. The attorney general is supposed to file it by tomorrow, but it could be released today.
CAMEROTA: Shimon, more information would be very helpful. Thank you very much for all of the reporting from the ground there.
PROKUPECZ: Yes.
CAMEROTA: Could President Trump end up going to jail over his failure to pay taxes? John Avlon has our "Reality Check," next.
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[06:51:15]
BERMAN: So much new information from "The New York Times" on the president's taxes. And much of the focus has been on what it now means for the president. But what might be most revealing, as we mentioned earlier, and most worrisome for Donald Trump, is what it means for after he is president.
John Avlon with a "Reality Check."
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JOHN AVLON, CNN SENOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Donald Trump is desperate to get re-elected. So desperate that he's willing to threaten the peaceful transfer of power. But "The New York Times" report revealing insights from two decades of his tax returns might shed some light on why Trump is ready to shred every democratic norm to hold on to power.
As University of Chicago Law Professor Daniel Hamill (ph) wrote in "The Washington Post," the stakes for Trump this fall are far greater than past presidents seeking re-election. For him, a loss would not mean only the end of a political career, but also, potentially, personal and financial ruin.
The first reaction for many was fury at the fact that a self-styled populist billionaire paid less in federal income tax than an unmarried full-time worker making just $9 an hour. That's a rigged system. And it's got to get fixed.
But here's what former DOJ Inspector General Michael R. Bromwich said. If he loses the election, he faces federal and state prosecution for bank fraud, tax fraud, wire fraud, and mail fraud. No OLC memo will spare him.
That's serious stuff.
Now, tax fraud applies to any material knowing misstatement on a tax return, like falsely inflating losses to pay less taxes. Bank fraud would apply if Trump falsely inflated his assets to get loans.
Now, here's what Trump's former fixer Michael Cohen told Congress in 2019.
MICHAEL COHEN, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S FORMER PERSONAL ATTORNEY: Mr. Trump inflated his total assets when it served his purposes, such as trying to be listed amongst the wealthiest people in "Forbes," and deflated his assets to reduce his real estate taxes.
AVLON: Now, since then, the Manhattan D.A. said Trump could face tax fraud charges.
Look, baseball great's Pete Rose and Darryl Strawberry did stints in prison for far less.
Now, the second issue stems from a mountain of debt. According to "The Times," he is personally responsible for loans and other debts totaling $421 million, with most of it coming due within four years. We don't know who the president owes all that money to, but it raises real concerns that some see as a national security threat.
Here's what the CIA guidelines says. Failure to lives within one's means, satisfy debts, and meet financial obligations may indicate poor self-control, lack of judgment, or unwillingness to abide by rules and regulations, all of which can raise questions about an individual's reliability, trustworthiness, and ability to protect classified or sensitive information.
Now, does that sound like anyone we know?
But make no mistake, this is all serious enough to increase Trump's sense of desperation. Among other things, his favorite Twitter insults, "fake," "failed," "dishonest," "weak," "liar," and "loser" would apply to him forever. And that's before the creditors and prosecutors come calling.
And that's your "Reality Check."
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BERMAN: Our thanks to John for that.
It is a huge day. We are just hours away from the first presidential debate. You're looking at live pictures of this very unusual debate hall. A fraction of the chairs inside. This is Case Western University outside Cleveland, the site of tonight's debate. And we have new details about how each candidate is getting ready, next.
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[06:59:04]
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Before the first presidential debate, "The New York Times" exposing details from President Trump's tax records.
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We've seen this play out before, a hit piece about the president's taxes, just before a debate, an inaccurate one at that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The thing that most surprised me, he has once again put himself in a position to risk it all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like how it was pre-Covid era.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In previous hot spots, upticks in case numbers causing real concern.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only way to get to herd immunity is through the graveyards of hundreds of thousands of Americans who wouldn't have had to die.
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ANNOUNCER: Think is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.
CAMEROTA: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY.
The first presidential debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden is tonight. And some pundits believe it could be the most watched political event of all time.
[07:00:01]
This is a live shot of the stage. John, you know I sometimes poke fun at these very still live shots. But tonight there is energy.
