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Donald and Melania Trump Test Positive for COVID-19; Global Markets Tumble after Trump Tests Positive. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired October 02, 2020 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

[05:55:34]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Good morning, everyone. John Berman here, along with Erica Hill, who is in for Alisyn, ,and we do have major breaking news.

President Trump has tested positive for coronavirus. So has the first lady. We were told a short time ago that they're in isolation in the White House residence. A letter released by the president's doctor says they are both well at this time, but what does that mean? Is the president exhibiting symptoms? We just don't know. That's one of the open questions this morning, exacerbated by the fact that, frankly, this White House can't be counted on for reliable information.

Obviously, we wish the president and first lady a speedy recovery. Transparency, though, of the utmost importance at this time.

This is what we know and, frankly, don't. Top Trump aide Hope Hicks was diagnosed with coronavirus yesterday morning. We are told she began experiencing symptoms as early as Wednesday afternoon. Hicks has been traveling with the president and a lot of other members of the president's inner circle throughout the week to the debate, to his rally in Minnesota. You see the pictures right there.

Now, to be clear, we don't know whether it was Hicks who infected the president. We do know that a small group of White House officials knew Hicks had tested positive yesterday, and the president still traveled to indoor events in New Jersey after.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: As John pointed out, there's still so much more we don't know. There are so many questions this morning, including just how many people have come in contact with the president, the first lady, and Hicks over the last few days.

That contact tracing is actually going to involve the highest levels of the U.S. government. We're talking about cabinet members; Congressional leaders; potentially the president's new Supreme Court nominee, Amy Coney Barrett; not to mention all of those who were at events with these people over the last several days or who were close to them.

Also this morning, how will the West Wing operate? There are national security and political implications here. Who will be allowed into the office? Can those with sensitive jobs work remotely if they're told to isolate?

Joe Biden, meantime, shared a debate stage with the president for 90 minutes on Tuesday. Will any upcoming debates even happen? How does this impact the former vice president and those around him?

We are pushing for answers on all of this. It is new information coming in by the minute and, as John pointed out, we need, this morning, transparency. CNN's Joe Johns live at the White House for this major breaking news.

Joe, what are you seeing and hearing on the ground there at the White House?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, given the fact that the president and his administration have flaunted the task force rules, especially the rules or guidelines when they come to mask wearing.

This may be a shock to many of our viewers, but it certainly is not that much of a surprise. One thing you can say about this is this is the most serious health threat for a sitting president in decades and certainly because the president of the United States is overweight. He's also 74 years old. That puts him in a high-risk zone for serious complications from coronavirus.

So here's what we know. Around 1 a.m. this morning, the president announced on Twitter that he and the first lady had tested positive for coronavirus and that they were going to isolate.

Then we got the statement that came out from the White House doctor, indicating that the president is going to try to carry on with business as usual. Of course, it's going to be very difficult to do under the circumstances.

The president, a couple hours before he put out a statement on Twitter confirming that he was testing positive for coronavirus, he also indicated that his aide, Hope Hicks, long-time aide, had tested positive, as well.

So our reporting is that Hope Hicks started showing what could be called symptoms of COVID-19 on Air Force One on Wednesday, coming back from a campaign rally in Minnesota. And then, apparently, the White House was pretty sure that Hope Hicks had tested positive at least Thursday, perhaps Thursday morning.

And the question, of course, right now is why did the president fly out to New Jersey for his campaign finance -- or I should say, fundraising event there? These are unanswerables.

But as it stands now, the other question is, who did the president come into contact with? Who did Hope Hicks come into contact with? And who did those contacts come into contact with? These are things we simply do not know, and we're expecting more information from the White House. A ton of questions about, for example, why the White House press

secretary held a news conference yesterday not wearing a mask. And did she know, in fact, that Hope Hicks had tested positive? And a slew of other questions.

But for now, the White House remains open, walk through with no problem, no clear indication that anything much has changed. We do know this is a serious situation and waiting to hear more from the administration.

Back to you.

BERMAN: All right, Joe, please keep us posted. Please keep us posted what you see happening behind you. Very curious to see if people do show up to work in the West Wing, which is a pretty crowded area. And given now that several people, including the president and Hope Hicks, have tested positive, I'm not so sure it will be as active today as it has been in recent days.

I also want to give you one other bit of breaking news we just got. We had an open-ended question about Joe Biden and his situation. CNN has learned that the former vice president will be tested this morning. The former vice president will be tested this morning. That is from a source with knowledge of the situation. Obviously, we will tell you when we know more about that test and the results.

Joining us now, CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta; CNN chief political correspondent, Dana Bash; and CNN medical analyst Dr. Jeremy Reiner. He is a professor of medicine at George Washington University and the cardiologist for former Vice President Dick Cheney.

Sanjay, there are a series of questions we have this morning, but I do want to start with the president and his health. So a man in his 70s who is overweight with coronavirus, what is the health situation facing the president this morning?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, John.

You know, first of all, let me just remind people that, obviously, given the president's age and his pre-existing illnesses, he's going to be at increased risk from this disease, but I want to preface by saying, still, the odds are very much in his favor. I don't want to unsettle people too much with this. You know, greater than 90 percent, 95 percent chance that he will get through this, still.

But let me show you a little bit about the president. We know about his medical history. We know because of his age, 74 years old, because of his weight, because he is a common form of heart disease, those things all put him at increased risk for the disease, for hospitalization.

We can show you how much of an increased risk. Well, you know, a lot of this has to do with his age. And you know, that's really broken down. We've been looking at this data for some time. When you're at his age, 65 to 74, it's about a five times greater likelihood that someone would be hospitalized for this, as compared to somebody younger.

What we don't know, as you correctly pointed out, John, does he have symptoms? Is he sick at all? They say he's doing well. What does that mean? That's not just a political curiosity question. It really matters now. We still don't have full vision on his past medical history, John. We know what they tell us, but you know, he had that strange visit to Walter Reed back in November. I raise it because it has medical relevance now. These things matter now in terms of the best way to approach the care of the president going forward. These are, obviously, things that his doctors are going to be talking about. But these are the types of things that, you know, we need to know.

We also -- we don't know when he was exposed, if he was exposed because of Hope Hicks or Hope Hicks was exposed because of him. How long ago was this likely exposure? It may have some relevance again in terms of how long he needs to be in isolation.

Isolation is what he needs to do now, John, for probably up to two weeks. Isolation is different than quarantine. Isolation is for people who are infected with the virus. They have known disease. They've got to be isolated.

All the people that he came in contact with, had close contact with, more than 15 minutes, within 6 feet, they need to be quarantined. Not just tested. Tested is nice; it's important to have, but tests can come back false negative. They need to be quarantined.

So John, again, to your point, if you start thinking about this, the number of people that we're talking about, at the highest levels of government, there's a lot of people over the next -- today, will learn that they need to be in quarantine for the -- possibly the next two weeks.

BERMAN: And just to pick up on that point, Dana, you spent a number of years at the White House. You know what it's like, not only the fact that it's tight quarters, but the -- the sheer number of people who work in the West Wing, who could potentially come into contact with the president on a daily basis. Just put that in perspective for us, what this could mean to how the West Wing will or will not be functioning this morning.

[06:05:01]

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's almost incalculable. I was thinking about this, the ripple effects of what we have learned overnight.

And it is the West Wing, of course, first and foremost. And we should say that we -- you know, we obviously hope that the president and the first lady are doing well. And Hope Hicks, as well.

But the fact is that, when I talk about the ripple effects, it is that there are people in the West Wing. There are members of the cabinet. People in the West Wing who went to Capitol Hill, who met with senior leaders of the Senate leadership, and I believe, the House leadership. And then, let's just add the third branch of government in, or the

woman who wants to be on the third branch of government, Amy Coney Barrett. The president's nominee to take Ruth Bader Ginsburg's spot on the Supreme Court has been at the White House. She has also been on Capitol Hill. So you have all of those, just on the surface level, all of those top people who have been potentially exposed, who are undoubtedly going to be asking their doctors, Do I have to quarantine?

So what if Mitch McConnell, the top Republican in the Senate, has to quarantine? What if Amy Coney Barrett, the nominee, has to quarantine? What if the president's chief of staff, the vice president? I mean, those are not far-fetched notions. Sanjay and Dr. Reiner can correct me if I'm wrong, but you know, these people have been in contact in recent days.

BERMAN: Yes. And Dr. Reiner, to you -- and again, we just looked at some of those pictures, and we can show much more of them. What Dana's talking about is the entire top strata of the U.S. government. Certainly, of Republican leadership, who have been in close contact with the president over the last week.

Dr. Reiner, I suppose the president, the first we learned or were told that the president tested positive was last night. Again, we're hampered by the fact that we get unreliable information from the White House, but if that is true, that's the first time they tested positive.

What does that tell us about when he may have been infected himself? Is it possible he has been pre-symptomatic for days? Or Hope Hicks, as well? How far could this have spread?

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Certainly, that's important. And actually, there's a key piece of data that we have to have, which is, when was the last time the president was tested and was negative?

We know that Dr. Conley and his team test the president very frequently for the coronavirus. The reason it's important is that, if he actually tested negative on Tuesday, the day of -- the day of the debate, and it was a true negative, he was really likely probably not infectious on -- on Tuesday, and that has consequences for others that attend to that, particularly the former vice president and anyone else in the room that day.

So it would be very important for the White House to tell us when the last time the president tested negative.

The White House is going to have to test everybody on Air Force One, everyone on Marine One. Dr. Brian Monahan, the physician for Congress, is going to have to start testing everyone who has been a secondary contact along the way. So there's a lot of work to be done.

I do want to emphasize, first of all, that you know, I too wish the president and the first lady very well. But there's no reason to panic now. The president is likely to do fine, as is the first lady. And there are systems in place to monitor him in the White House, video conferencing so he can continue to work if he feels well. And then, finally, constitutional processes that allow for the temporary transfer of power to the vice president, should the president not feel up to the job for several days.

HILL: So we know that all of that's there. Sanjay, as we come back to, though, what we do know this morning, and we look at the situation in terms of the message that this sends, we know how the president has pushed back, both with his words and his actions, on the guidance that has come not only from his own White House task force, from the CDC, we know about the struggles that have happened behind the scenes. I know you have some reporting on that. You've spoken to a number of folks over the last several months about it.

How does what we're seeing this morning put all of that into sharper focus?

GUPTA: You know, Erica, it's a good question. I don't know the answer. Because one thing is clear, is that the president has known for some time how serious this disease can be. I mean, we heard the recorded conversations with Bob Woodward. Back on February 7, he was talking about how concerned -- how concerning this was.

We know that he personally was concerned. You know, daily testing at the White House. He even says that he took hydroxychloroquine. Why? Maybe because he was worried about his own potential exposure.

[06:10:04]

So, now that he has it, will it cause a complete shift in how he thinks about it? I -- I don't know the answer to that.

One thing I will say, though, is that, you know, Jonathan was talking about the testing, Dr. Reiner was talking about the testing, which is going to be really important. But, you know, people are going to need to be quarantined, even regardless of the testing. People who have now had exposures.

And I just want to make sure that people are clear on this point. If you've had exposure to someone with COVID, the person with COVID needs to be isolated. Other people do need to be quarantined. It's great if they can get tested. That will be a good data point, but the tests can come back false negative.

Even on the day of the debate, tests could have come back false negative. That's why everyone has to behave like they have the virus. I mean, even this event, the debate itself, I mean, Cleveland Clinic oversaw the medical protocols, and I'm sure they were trying to do the best that they can. But basically, they're saying, OK, this is a risky situation, two vulnerable people up on stage. Here's the best, you know, sort of guidance we can give you. Am I telling you this is totally safe? No. What I'm telling you is that you want to do this, here's the best guidance we can give you.

And now that we know the president has tested positive, people are going to have to go back and look and see, who has he had contact with? With Hope Hicks? What were the days like before she developed

symptoms? Because we know people can be the most contagious during that time frame.

We're getting a look at what should have been happening in the country all along. This level of contact tracing, isolation, quarantining. If we'd been doing this, it could have helped to really curb this pandemic. Now it has to happen, as you point out, at the highest levels of government.

BERMAN: Just to be clear about thing: Mike Pence the other day said he met with President Trump the day of the debate. So Mike Pence, the vice president, and the president, according to Pence, were together on Tuesday. All right, so that's a point right there. So you would have to assume that Mike Pence will have to go into quarantine, if they were following the procedures that Sanjay laid out right here.

Once again, the top strata, the top level of government, we are waiting to see over the next minutes and hours how they behave.

Kayleigh McEnany, who might be the person normally who would brief the press and the public about the situation in the White House, she's been in contact with the president yesterday. So you would think that she won't be able to go out in public right now. We're just trying to figure out how all this will happen.

And then Dana, the news that CNN is reporting that there was a circle of officials who knew that Hope Hicks had tested positive before the president went to New Jersey yesterday. He got on a plane, with other people, went to New Jersey, met with other people, inside a room. We have no reporting that he wore a mask. In fact, we don't think he wore a mask at any point during this time. It seems like that may have been irresponsible and put a lot of people in danger.

BASH: To say the least. You know, I mean, you just laid out the series of events that, if either of the physicians on this panel with us or any human who has been paying attention to the protocols that we're all supposed to take to keep ourselves and, most importantly, other people safe, would never have done.

And it just speaks to the level to which the president was determined to go to make clear or to send a message that the coronavirus is almost done. He even said, I believe it was yesterday morning, that we're turning the corner. And you know what? We all wish that were the case.

But we know, even without the president, unfortunately, being infected, even without Hope Hicks being infected, we know that is not the case yet. And it makes it so much worse when -- when our leaders don't model good behavior, and now we see what happens when they don't.

BERMAN: Dana, Dr. Reiner, Dr. Gupta, stand by. To Dana's point, I just want to say, we have nearly 208,000 deaths in the United States now from coronavirus. We reported more than 850 new death in the last 24 hours and 40,000 new cases, not including the president, first lady, and Hope Hicks.

So, Dana, Sanjay, and Dr. Reiner, stand by, please.

HILL: We also want to take a look at the impact this is having. U.S. and global markets tumbling on the news that President Trump has tested positive for coronavirus.

CNN's chief business correspondent, Christine Romans, is with us now. And I know you've been watching this since the wee hours, Christine.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. A big new uncertainty injected into what was already a very uncertain outlook heading into the election here.

As one stock market strategist said to me, this is the greatest presidential health crisis since Ronald Reagan was shot in 1981. And it really scrambles the chess board for assumptions heading into this election.

[06:15:04]

Already there were concerns about a peaceful transfer of power, a contested election. Wall Street did not like any kind of whiff of that.

And now you have a president who basically personifies a rejection of mitigation efforts in the United States, testing positive for coronavirus. What kind of implications will that have for how the economy reopens and continues to reopen for schools and restaurants and businesses? What will that mean? What does it mean in the -- in the calculus here for more stimulus to help an economy that -- a recovery that seems to have stalled?

So a lot of big questions. And you've got investors just trying to figure out how this new information plays into all of that.

BERMAN: Yes. Uncertainty is not something the market likes, and this is the epitome of uncertainty this morning.

ROMANS: Absolutely.

BERMAN: Christine Romans, please keep us posted.

As I mentioned, we do have breaking news on former vice president Joe Biden, how he intends to address this over the next several hours and his own health. That's coming up. Stay tuned. Our special live coverage continues after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:20:16]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BERMAN: All right. The breaking news, the White House tells us that the president and the first lady have tested positive for coronavirus. We are told they are doing well, but frankly, we do not know what that means, because information at this point is limited.

We also learned a short time ago that former vice president, Joe Biden, who appeared on a debate stage unmasked with President Trump Tuesday night, will be tested this morning.

CNN's Arlette Saenz covering the Biden campaign. She joins us now with the latest on that. Arlette, what are you hearing?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, a source tells CNN that Joe Biden will be tested for coronavirus this morning. We've also reached out to campaign officials to see if there is any more guidance on that or a general response to the fact that President Trump tested positive for coronavirus just a few days after he appeared on stage with Joe Biden.

Now, Biden has been getting tested regularly. His campaign had told us a few weeks ago that he was going to be tested weekly. And if he ever had a positive test, that they would tell the public.

But right now, there's a lot of questions about what campaigning is going to look like, and while there's already been a debate over the debate about rules, now there could -- are questions about what will happen to those future debates.

You saw Joe Biden and President Trump standing on that stage, socially distanced at their podiums. It's unclear if they ever crossed closer paths while they were on that debate stage.

But certainly, this has raised a lot of questions about the way that each of their campaigns are handling the issue of coronavirus. You often see Joe Biden out with a mask. It's actually very uncommon to see him without a mask in public. The president mocked Biden for that during the debate on Tuesday night.

Now, Biden today is scheduled to go to Grand Rapids, Michigan, where he was slated to deliver remarks on the economy. We learned overnight that the campaign actually asked one of those reporters who was supposed to go on that trip not to travel with them today, because that reporter informed them that they were on Air Force One to Minnesota when the president traveled there on Wednesday. So the Biden campaign decided not to have that reporter on for the trip.

But there are questions about whether Biden will continue on with his trip to Michigan after learning that President Trump, who he shared that debate stage with, now has coronavirus -- John.

BERMAN: All right, Arlette, keep us posted on that. I suspect we'll get some information from them over next few hours about whether that trip is on. We do know, we have been told, he does intend to be tested this morning.

As for the debates, we'll get to that in a bit. I mean, the vice- presidential debate is scheduled for less than a week away. Mike Pence was with the president. I can't imagine that will happen. The presidential debate, next one two weeks away. I wouldn't bet your life on that one happening either. Back with us now, Dana Bash, Dr. Jonathan Reiner. Also joining us, CNN

political analyst Toluse Olorunnipa. He's a White House reporter for "The Washington Post." CNN political analyst Margaret Talev. She's the politics and White House editor for Axios. And Jeffrey Toobin woke us for us. Thank you, Jeffrey. CNN chief legal analyst.

And Dr. Reiner, very quickly, because I do want to jump into a lot of the politics of this, but quickly, just the medical factor, Joe Biden standing on the debate stage, unmasked for 90 minutes with President Trump. What are the risks that Joe Biden would be under? Yes, they were socially distant, but is that enough?

REINER: Well, I think it depends on the air flow in the room. Which way was the air-conditioning pointing, and how infectious was the president at that -- at that time? So there are a lot of unknowns.

Everyone in that room that day was supposed to be tested negative. Everyone who entered that room was supposed to be tested negative. And there's a striking visual of when the president's entourage entered, they had been offered masks, but declined. So it's a striking example of the importance of masking up in public.

But the distance between the president and the vice president on that stage should be sufficient to protect the vice president, unless there's some unfortunate indoor air current generated by a fan or air- conditioning.

HILL: You know, in terms of what we saw on that debate stage, and Arlette just mentioned this, but I think we have the sound from that moment at the debate when masks came up and when the president was mocking former Vice President Joe Biden for wearing a mask. And let's just play that moment again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I mean, I have a mask right here. I put a mask on, you know, when I think I need it.

I don't wear masks like him. Every time you see him, he's got a mask. He could be speaking 200 feet away from them, and he shows up with the biggest mask I've ever seen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[06:25:05]

HILL: We've known for months now, the one thing that can actually -- the one tool that we all have right now is a mask. We hear that on the heels of this excellent reporting from our colleague, Vivian Salama, where she points out that the feeling in the West Wing, there was a real concern that it wasn't a good look to have people running around with masks, because it didn't portray confidence. Which is fascinating, Dana, because confidence would be, Hey, I know how to fix this, and I'm going to tell you, not ignoring the one tool that we have. BASH: That's exactly right. And that kind of sentiment, that feeling,

that mindset came straight from the top. I mean, we saw that every single day that the president was, you know, in the White House briefing room, on Air Force One, on Marine One, in his rallies, I mean, every single time we saw him, except the rare occasion where he went to the hospital and he was wearing a mask.

And the fact that that was the culture and still is the culture inside the White House, that masks are shunned, you know, is -- has always been eyebrow-raising, perplexing, particularly since his own administration, his own coronavirus task force members have been saying, until they're blue in the face, Please, wear a mask. It is the basic request, you know, plea, from anybody who is trying to help mitigate this virus inside his administration.

But he just couldn't get over the fact that in his mind, the mask equals weakness; equals, I'm not on top of this virus; equals, I'm not going to win re-election.

BERMAN: He has been engaged in a months-long assault on mask wearing. Even when he was doing it, he made clear he was doing it reluctantly and only in select circumstances. The political leadership in the White House, the Trump family at the debate. They, I think, quite ostentatiously, whipped their masks off as soon as they sat down in that hall. All the pictures we've been showing all morning long of Hope Hicks and others walking into Marine One, which isn't big, right, they're not wearing masks. So mask wearing is not messaging that has been being sent, Margaret.

And to hear that sound on the debate stage, that was Tuesday night, all right? That wasn't months ago. That was Tuesday night, when the president might have already been infected with coronavirus, mocking someone for wearing masks.

TALEV: Yes, John, he might already have been infected. And I think that's what we don't know. And that's why we can't know a number of other things, which is, what is Joe Biden's exposure? What does this do to a debate next week? What does this do to the rest of the presidential debates? What does it do to the rest of the campaign?

This is a problem for the president for two simultaneous reasons. And one is that his health is impacted. He may not be able to, you know, fully move about or campaign or conduct his business as president.

But the other real reason this is a crisis is because it is absolutely politically where the rubber meets the road. When you are telling Americans, This thing is totally overhyped, get on with your life, the economy is more important, implicit in that is the idea that you are able to stay healthy and protect yourself. You've got the Secret Service. You've got fantastic doctors. You have all the protocols to protect you, and you get it anyway.

And it is -- it is the most direct example that could be possible of the fallacies of his messaging and the problems with what he has been saying over the course of the last several months. HILL: Yes, that is for sure. And Toluse, as we start to look at the

fallout here. We know the president's schedule has already been changed. As Arlette pointed out, we're waiting to hear about what will or will not change for the Biden campaign.

But it's not just a cancellation of events. It's how President Trump and Vice President Pence and the entire campaign, what they're actually going to say and how they're going to address this. Because this is far from the message that they've put out for months.

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, if you look at some of the messages that the president and the vice president have put out in the past months, they include, you know, this is all going to go away in the summer. Vice President Pence says, I think that by Memorial Day, we'll have this well in the past. The president originally said by Easter, this would be behind us. Then he said, in recent weeks, We're rounding the turn, we're rounding the corner. This is all going away. He said, There's going to be a herd mentality and everyone is going to be fine.

This is now the clearest example, just 31 days ahead of the election, that we're not going to just be fine, just by ignoring this or not taking it seriously. And as much as the president wants to turn the focus of the campaign to the economy or talking about contrasting his policy vision with Joe Biden's vision and moving on from the coronavirus, the fact that he, himself, has caught.