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President Trump Tests Positive for Coronavirus; Source: White House May Designate VP Pence an "Essential Worker" After President Trump Tests Positive for Coronavirus. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired October 02, 2020 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Erica, Henderson and Jeff Mason, he is a White House correspondent for "Reuters" who is frankly been attacked by the president for wearing a mask, doing his duties at the White House.

We'll get to that in a minute. Friends, I want to play for you some sound from Chris Christie, the former governor of New Jersey. Just moments ago, Chris Christie was a central player in the debate prep for President Trump who was in the room prior to the debate, the days prior to the debate with the president, Hope Hicks and others. Listen to what Chris Christie just said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE, FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR: No one was wearing masks in the room when we were prepping the president during that period of time, and we were -- the group was about five or six people in total.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Right, that was Monday. That was Monday. A small room, Dana Bash, that tells you the level of concern that this White House displays both internally and externally. For them, the pandemic may be over. At least it was, they thought, as of Monday.

And these are days when, you know, more than 800 people died again overnight here in the United States. Nearly, 208,000 people have died from the pandemic. So far, 43,000 new cases and no one wearing masks while they were doing debate prep with the president two days before he was diagnosed with COVID-19.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. They met Monday, twice, doing debate prep. That small room by the way is the White House map room. They were doing it twice Monday and also Tuesday morning. And obviously, the president was in the room. But Hope Hicks, I was told, was in all of the debate prep, as well. So, there were two people who were, we now know, are positive.

It's -- you know, we don't know if they were positive -- they had the virus back then or if they were even remotely symptomatic. I mean, we do know that Hope Hicks, according to our reporting is really not feeling well. I mean, she is quite symptomatic, you know, achy and has, you know, a lot of the symptoms that we hear about, unfortunately, from so many people, including some of our colleagues who have gotten it.

But that really just -- it's not surprising that they weren't wearing masks in the room, particularly with the president, because that is the protocol. The protocol is, you don't wear a mask around the president because he doesn't like it. And so, you know, that was the way that it was done. I say "was" because perhaps it will change now. And the excuse that the president has given in public and in private for not wearing a mask is they get tested all the time. But we now know, in the most extreme way with the ultimate example, that, that testing system was far from full-proof.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Sanjay too, I mean, just remind us, we wear a mask, you know, not just to protect -- yes, to protect other people, but you also wear it to protect yourself.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, you know, the -- with the cloth masks, the surgical masks, you know, the real benefit is that you're decreasing the amount of virus that's getting into the air, and therefore, you know, you're just likely to have less virus in an environment like the one that Dana just described, a small room with lots of people inside of it.

So, yes, it protects you if other people are wearing mask, you protect other people by wearing a mask, that's absolutely true. And the testing is again one of these things where you say, well, everyone got tested, therefore we're OK. There's a couple of problems with that -- by the way, people always ask, how beneficial is the mask?

And we put this together to give people an idea, just numerically, that if you wear the mask properly, transmission is about 3 percent versus if you're wearing it -- if you're not wearing a mask or wearing it improperly, closer to 18 percent. So you know, six-fold difference by wearing a mask. It's not perfect, but it can make a significant difference.

And just on the testing again, it's not a panacea. First of all, they could be false negative tests, and as we've seen a few times now, someone can test negative one day, positive, even later that same day or the next day. We know like in the case of Hope Hicks, for example, if she became symptomatic on Wednesday, it's likely she was most contagious in the two to three days before you become symptomatic.

So there you go. I mean, what was happening in those two to three days? The debate, this planning session that Dana was describing. This is -- this is really concerning and didn't need to happen if some, again, basic public health protocols had been followed.

BERMAN: I just want to reiterate what you just said. If Hope Hicks was symptomatic Wednesday, what we know about the virus is the time that she was perhaps spreading the most would have been Monday and Tuesday when she was in a small room doing debate prep with the president and others. And then in contact, unmasked, with the entire senior White House leadership over those days, on Air Force One, on a way to a rally with Kayleigh McEnany, who Jeff Mason, briefed the press yesterday.

[07:35:00]

And I know, you were the last reporter on earth who wants to be part of the story himself. But you've -- the president has confronted you about your insistence on wearing masks inside the White House, which I think is indicative of the attitude toward the virus and protections over the last weeks and months. Added to the fact, as I said Kayleigh McEnany, who we believe knew that Hope Hicks either had tested positive or at a minimum was exhibiting symptoms, briefed the press in the briefing room unmasked yesterday. Correct?

JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, REUTERS: Yes, that's correct. I wasn't there for that briefing, but yes, she did do a briefing. And we also know just in general that -- and you referred to the president's criticism of me, but in general, that is absolutely a part of the ethos in the White House generally.

That it is frowned upon for people to wear masks, and it's just not the attitude that the president wants to see. It's not the picture that the president wants to see. It's also interesting, I think, useful right now to look back at the history, just within the White House itself. Earlier in the year when Katie Miller; the vice president's spokeswoman got coronavirus, the White House started taking it more seriously right there on the ground.

Temperature checks started happening, all sorts of protocols were put into place, office people in their offices were required to wear masks. Then in the Summer when the president wanted to show sort of an attitude or a picture of the country coming back from the pandemic, all of that went away. And as a result, here we are, a few months later, the president himself has gotten the virus.

HILL: It is fascinating, too, when you put that timeline out there. What's also important and what we've been talking so much about this morning is who else was in contact with the president? What does this mean for contact-tracing? And it really is the highest levels of government because there is so much going on right now, not just debate prep and campaigning, but there's also, of course, the president's pick for the Supreme Court, Amy Coney Barrett.

We know that there are also discussions about the stimulus happening as well. So we actually have pictures of Steve Mnuchin, right, who we understand met with the president on Wednesday, and then was heading up to Capitol Hill, was going to meet with Nancy Pelosi. So, as we look at this, you know, web, Nia-Malika, it really does stretch all across government.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: It really does. And you know, as I sit here and listen, I mean, this is shocking, the recklessness with this president handling this virus essentially. I mean, not exactly ordering people in his orbit not to wear a mask, but making it seem like not wearing a mask was a way to show loyalty to this president. It is stunning. It is reckless. It is indicative of the way he has

handled this beginning back in March when the pandemic was something that became known to the general public and people started to take steps to protect themselves. The fact that Hope Hicks was not wearing a mask, this was to show loyalty to the president.

This is what the president liked, the fact that his family was in that debate hall, possibly infected, possibly infecting other people. The fact that they were allowed to sit in that debate hall and not wear masks, incredibly problematic. And we don't know the web of people who may have been infected because of this White House's recklessness when it comes to the public, when it comes to their own safety, when it comes to the safety of those folks who work in that complex.

You know, it's not only at the highest levels of government, it's also the people who drive the president and it's also the people who serve the president. It's also those sort of lower-level workers who probably had to show loyalty to the president as well in not wearing masks. So, this is just devastating, you know, I found out about this at 1:00 a.m. It was shocking then. It is still shocking even though we've been talking about this for hours --

BERMAN: Yes --

HENDERSON: And hours. In some ways, it's not surprising, given the president's reckless behavior, but my goodness, that this is at the doorstep of this White House and Congress and people at the debate hall and Joe Biden, right?

I mean, he was standing next to the president for 90 minutes in that debate hall, and we know the president likes to yell, and we know that this is one of the ways that it is transmitted. I mean, this is awful, this is devastating, this is tragic, and the president bears so much responsibility for this, given the way he has talked about masks.

BERMAN: Yes, I can't tell you how many texts I have received over the last hour, from people waking up, basically saying, oh, my God.

HENDERSON: Yes --

BERMAN: Everyone, do not go far. Again, there is more news coming in by the second here.

HILL: That there is. We're going to get to all the very latest. Again, the president and the first lady testing positive for coronavirus, the White House says they're doing well at this time. We don't know exactly what that means. More on the other side of this break.

[07:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Right, the breaking news, overnight, the White House tells us that President Trump and the first lady have tested positive for coronavirus. Obviously, we wish them a speedy recovery. There is a transparency issue this morning. And an issue of fundamental trust, why? Hope Hicks; senior aide to President Trump, she, we understand, tested positive yesterday morning. Officials at the White House knew this.

The president still got on a plane and traveled, traveled to New Jersey, met with a small group of people there, and it wasn't until last night that we find out because of a "Bloomberg" report that Hope Hicks had tested positive would set off this entire chain of events we are having now.

We simply at this point cannot fully trust the information we're getting from the White House. We're trying to find out as much as we can. Joining us now, President Trump's one-time Communications Director Anthony Scaramucci. Anthony, thank you so much for being with us. Look, it is a serious issue. There is a right to medical privacy.

[07:45:00]

No one had to tell us it was Hope Hicks, necessarily. But the fact that a senior aide to the president had tested positive as of yesterday morning who the White House knew was in close contact with the president, and then the president still got on that plane, what are your concerns this morning?

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, the first thing I want to say is I wish all of them a speedy recovery, I think we all do. It's a tragedy what's going on in terms of the pandemic.

But John, it's irresponsible. You know, and you don't even know if Hope got it first. You know, she could be the Fall person and then the president does the news drop at 1:00 a.m. to try to deflect what's going on with his personal health. So, we don't even know what's going on because all of the lies. But here's the thing that's so irresponsible. He's going to Minnesota, knowing that Hope had it.

He's going to New Jersey knowing that Hope had it. The White House press secretary unmasked is giving a press conference. Nobody in the Congress is being notified. And so this is just rank irresponsibility and it's rank incompetence. And let's just stipulate, he's lied about the science for six months, couldn't protect himself or his family, so how is he going to protect the American people going forward?

And so I feel bad that he's sick. I want him to get better, certainly, it's a tragic situation, but we have to not let up on the gas, if you want to remove him. We have to still discuss the racism, the destruction of the democracy, the demolishing of the institutions of our government, the voter suppression.

All of this stuff has to be discussed now. You know, somebody said to me this morning, well, maybe he doesn't have it, maybe he's looking for sympathy? No, that's not true. I'm sure he has it because there's no way he would want to isolate himself for 14 days if he didn't have it, John. But this is wholly irresponsible, and good men and women in the United States need to speak out now and remove this president. HILL: You know, there's some reporting at "The New York Times" that

part of what was being discussed in the last few hours at the White House is what to do now which obviously should be discussed. But should the president be put out there?

Should the president somehow address the nation to put people's minds at ease? Because all we were told is they're doing well at this time, which frankly doesn't tell you a lot. I mean, what's your thinking on that? If you're still in the White House at this point, what are you advising the president and others to do to take control of the situation? Because it's 7:47 on the East Coast and we still haven't heard a hell of a lot.

SCARAMUCCI: Well, I would advise them to do something that they never do. I would say, more truth, more honesty, more authenticity and more transparency. The very good news for the president and the first lady is we know how to treat the illness better now than we did six months ago. And so hopefully, they'll recover very quickly. But certainly, if he's feeling OK, he should definitely do that. But we all know this incubation period is variable, depending on the patient. So, I would just be as honest --

BERMAN: Yes --

SCARAMUCCI: As possible, and I hope he has an apparitional moment here where he says, you know what? I was wrong about the mask, I was wrong about lying about the science, I was wrong about suppressing Dr. Fauci and other epidemiologists related to this.

This illness has been an apparitional moment for me, please, everybody, let's mask up, let's have a nationally-coordinated strategy. It's six months late, but we need to do that to save lives. God only knows how many lives we could have saved if he started with that narrative --

BERMAN: Right --

SCARAMUCCI: Six months ago. And so --

BERMAN: Anthony?

SCARAMUCCI: So it's malpractice, John.

BERMAN: It's worth pointing out as you brought up the campaign, this undercuts really a central thrust of his campaign, which is that the pandemic is behind us, that we've turned the corner. He says that with his words and he has also said that with his behavior.

And the White House sends that message with the behavior inside the White House. That was something Jeff Mason, who, you know, a "Reuters" reporter, straight down the middle has been saying, is that the White House has been trying to act like this is over and how they treat reporters and how they walk around. This undercuts really that central message of the campaign.

SCARAMUCCI: You know, I totally agree with that, but also remember that people typically vote on their emotion, they're voting on their feelings, and this feels ominous. This feels like mother nature is sending a message that something is amiss in the society. And this is a very symbolic thing that goes against the president's narrative over the last six months.

And it's a terrible thing. Listen, I don't wish anybody illness and I don't wish any family members illness. But we've had deaths here, out here on Long Island in Manhasset, my mother's best friend died of COVID-19. So, I don't wish it on anybody, but what I do wish for the United States is a responsible leader and someone that's going to tell the truth to the American people about the science of this disease. And I'll tell you what I'm upset about. We have a lot of competent --

BERMAN: Quickly, Anthony --

SCARAMUCCI: People in that government that know better.

[07:50:00]

BERMAN: Anthony Scaramucci, we appreciate your time this morning, appreciate your insight. Be well, be healthy, thank you.

SCARAMUCCI: You too.

HILL: Also with us, CNN national security analyst, Juliette Kayyem; former assistant secretary at the Department of Homeland Security and CNN political analyst Joshua Green who is a national correspondent for "Bloomberg Business Week". You know, we do want to reiterate we all of course hope that the president and the first lady and Hope Hicks, that they recover quickly.

BERMAN: And as reasonably, I believe they will --

HILL: And they're absolutely is. But it's also important to point out that there are legitimate questions about whether we need to talk about continuity of government --

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes --

HILL: And to put everybody's mind at ease, we should point out, Juliette, there are plans for all of this --

KAYYEM: Yes --

HILL: And there are typically exercises done to make sure that if and when anything is needed, people are ready.

KAYYEM: That's right. I mean, given the likelihood that just statistically that the Trumps will be OK, they might be out of commission for a couple of days. I think the consequences of this will be more political than anything else. And I think people should view that as good news.

We live in a time when you feel like the center is not holding and there's no floor, you know, all -- everything is breaking down. But there's actually sort of institutional structures, they're known as continuity of government and continuity of operations. They go to, you know, who goes next as president or as Secretary of Treasury or Homeland Security or whether, you know, a computer system goes down, how you get it back up.

Those systems are tested, they're exercised, they're understood by people in government. We don't know the extent to the -- that those have been executed at this stage. In other words, we still don't know if Nancy Pelosi going to be tested for being third in line, we don't know things like that yet.

But the systems are in place, they appear to be working, and so when you ask me sort of, am I nervous? You're nervous because this is just a time to be nervous. But in terms of the fact that Trump is not the presidency nor is he the United States, we know we have plans for whatever contingency may occur.

BERMAN: So, Josh Green, I'm looking it up right now to find the exact date here, but you may be the most prescient reporter on earth because on May 13th, you write an article titled, "if the president tests positive for the virus, what happens?" Right, this was in May. You foresaw it. Again, I don't really want to talk about succession.

We're not in a succession moment, that's not where we are. But there are questions about continuity of government. Who runs things? What happens at the top level? And I do want to know here that everyone at the top level of government from the president, to the vice president, to the speaker of the house who met with Steve Mnuchin, potentially, is in a very short web in the contact-tracing here.

JOSHUA GREEN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, I mean, what's important in talking to experts is that it'd be clear who the commander-in-chief -- who the commander-in-chief is at any given moment. There's a clear line of succession. The 25th Amendment allows Trump to temporarily hand over power if necessary.

This isn't an uncommon thing. George W. Bush did it twice for medical procedures during his presidency. So if Trump were to become ill or incapacitated, the vice president could take over. Where it gets dicey and where you really could have a potential constitutional issue, is what were to happen if Trump and Pence were both to become ill and incapacitated.

Then the constitution says it goes to the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. But it does -- and the constitution doesn't actually offer a procedure for determining whether or not a president is unable to perform his duties. So in the case where Trump and Pence were both incapacitated, and Nancy Pelosi wanted to exercise a claim on the presidency, you could conceivably wind up in a situation where Pelosi and Trump and Pence were both trying to declare themselves president. That of course would wind up in court, but that's when things become really scary.

HILL: Yes.

BERMAN: I do want to say, I just -- I'm reading off Twitter now.

HILL: Yes -- BERMAN: But I'm doing it from our chief White House correspondent.

Jim Acosta just reported that the vice president has tested negative --

HILL: OK --

BERMAN: For coronavirus. His office says. That from our Jim Acosta moments ago. It is worth noting, obviously, you can test negative and then test positive.

HILL: Right --

BERMAN: So, this doesn't mean, you know, it's a get-out-of jail free card necessarily. But from Jim Acosta moments ago on Twitter saying the vice president has tested negative. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to --

HILL: No, not at all. I mean, just to -- just to sort of expand on that, we also are learning that perhaps an idea is being floated, Julia, that in terms of --

KAYYEM: Yes --

HILL: The vice president, perhaps the vice president should be declared an essential worker, which as I understand, it has to come through that designation, it has to come through the CDC so that he would not have to quarantine. I'm just curious, your take on that.

KAYYEM: So, it was weird when I heard that before we got the testing news, it seemed odd to me. It's an unknown designation. Either the vice president has been infected or he has not, and either Trump hangs on his -- passes on his constitutional duties or not.

This notion of an essential worker only exists for people who are healthy, who have to keep our critical infrastructure functioning. So, think about water and heat and supply chain issue. Those workers are viewed as critical infrastructure. Now that he has tested negative, he doesn't need a designation.

[07:55:00]

I mean, he is the vice president, the president is not incapacitated. So this just seems like a story where the White House was once again trying to recreate or figure out rules where they didn't need to. They were already rules in place. Now that he's tested negative, he is the vice president, we still have a president, so I think all systems all go at this stage.

BERMAN: All right, Juliette Kayyem, Josh Green, you are doing my stock investments --

(LAUGHTER)

From now on, based on your reporting. Thank you both so much for being with us. We are getting new information including some new reporting on how the president -- on how his aides at least thought he was looking and behaving and feeling yesterday, much more on this breaking news. Our special live coverage continues after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world, John Berman here along with Erica Hill in for Alisyn, the breaking news this morning. Both President Trump and the first lady have tested positive for coronavirus.

Both are said to be in isolation in the White House residence. The president's doctor says in a statement that both of them are doing well. That's all we've been told. We do not know if the president is showing any symptoms. There is some new reporting from Bloomberg that his aides did think he looked poorly yesterday. Fact of the matter is, we have a trust issue with this White House.

We simply have been told things that are incorrect for so long now that we have to wonder when we are told things this morning. That is why we are pressing so hard for more information, transparency is critical. This is what we do know.

Top Trump aide Hope Hicks was diagnosed with coronavirus yesterday morning, she tested positive as of yesterday morning. We're told she began experiencing symptoms as early as Wednesday afternoon. Now, Hicks has been very close with the president in very close proximity for days.