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President Trump Set To Return To White House; Awaiting Trump's Departure From Hospital. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired October 05, 2020 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: We're following breaking news.
We're standing by for President Trump to be discharged from the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center this hour, even as his doctor is acknowledging he may not be entirely out of the woods from his COVID- 19 infection.
Mr. Trump's medical team stressing ways the president's condition has improved, while refusing repeatedly to disclose some other key information, including the results of his lung scans or when he last tested negative.
As for the president, his often reckless disregard for the coronavirus threat appears totally unchanged by his own illness. He is now telling the American people don't be afraid of the virus that killed more than 200,000, 210,000 Americans.
Mr. Trump is returning to a White House that's a growing coronavirus hot spot right now. His press secretary, Kayleigh McEnany, and two of her staffers are the latest to test positive.
Let's go to our Chief White House Correspondent, Jim Acosta first.
Jim, the president about to get what he wants. He made his desire to leave the hospital very, very clear.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: He has been want to go get out, Wolf, and he is getting out.
President Trump is preparing to leave Walter Reed Medical Center this evening, after being hospitalized with the coronavirus for about 72 hours. The president is still downplaying COVID-19, as you said, even as he is recovering from the virus, tweeting that he feels better than he has in decades, neglecting to mention he's been on intense medications for days.
Medical experts fear the president is making a rash decision to come back to the White House. But the president's doctors claim he has made enough progress to return to the White House, while conceding he is not out of the woods yet.
One worrying sign, though, Mr. Trump's lead physician was once again dodging some critical questions earlier today. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA (voice-over): One day following his infamous Sunday drive outside Walter Reed Medical Center, President Trump is leaving the hospital, insisting that people shouldn't fear COVID-19, even after the virus has killed more than 200,000 Americans.
"Feeling really good," the president tweeted. "Don't be afraid of COVID. Don't let it dominate your life. I feel better than I did 20 years ago."
The president's embattled lead physician, Dr. Sean Conley, said he agrees with the decision, while cautioning, Mr. Trump is not out of the woods yet.
DR. SEAN CONLEY, WHITE HOUSE PHYSICIAN: The team and I agree all evaluations and, most importantly, his clinical status support the president's safe return home, where he will be surrounded by world- class medical care 24/7.
ACOSTA: But Conley simply refused to answer questions from reporters, such as when the president had his last negative test result.
CONLEY: I don't want to go backwards.
ACOSTA: Sources familiar with the president's health said Mr. Trump was demanding to go back to the White House on Sunday, with one adviser telling CNN, "He is done with the hospital."
There are new questions about the administration's mishandling of COVID-19 after Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany tested positive for the virus. McEnany, like the president, had scoffed at the idea of wearing masks for months.
(on camera): Why won't you wear a mask? Is it sort of a personal political statement?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It's a personal decision. I'm tested regularly. I feel that it's safe for me not to be wearing a mask. And I'm in compliance with CDC guidelines, which are recommended, but not required.
ACOSTA (voice-over): Then there's her prediction back in February that COVID would never reach the U.S.
MCENANY: This president will always put America first. He will always protect American citizens. We will not see diseases like the coronavirus come here.
ACOSTA: Despite the long list of West Wing officials, top GOP allies and Republican senators to test positive for the virus in the last week, aides to the president say there are no regrets.
BRIAN MORGENSTERN, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: We know what to do when someone gets sick. Kayleigh is carrying it out, really being a perfect example of that right now. You continue to work, but you remain vigilant. You just -- you wash your hands, you distance, you wear your mask. And then if there's any symptoms or a positive test yourself, then you go into quarantine.
ACOSTA (on camera): You guys haven't been doing that. You have been flouting the administration guidelines on COVID. You have been -- you have been working in close quarters.
MORGENSTERN: We're all tested very frequently. We wash our hands frequently. And we have been -- we have been taking the precautions that we need to take.
ACOSTA (voice-over): The White House faces a credibility crisis over Mr. Trump's bout with the virus, after his doctor misled the public about the president's condition.
CONLEY: I was trying to reflect the upbeat attitude that the team, the president, his course of illness has had.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I learned a lot about COVID.
ACOSTA: Add to that the president tried to ease concerns, tweeting out a video saying he understands how the virus works, before riding in a motorcade to wave to supporters, exposing his own Secret Service detail.
The president defended the move, tweeting: "If I didn't do it, media would say rude."
But that's not true. As one top D.C. doctor tweeted about the Secret Service agents with Mr. Trump: "They may die for political theater. Commanded by Trump to put their lives at risk for theater. This is insanity."
Still, the Trump campaign absurdly claimed the president has somehow one-upped Democrat Joe Biden.
ERIN PERRINE, DIRECTOR OF PRESS COMMUNICATIONS, TRUMP 2020 CAMPAIGN: He has experience now fighting the coronavirus as an individual. Those firsthand experiences, Joe Biden, he doesn't have those.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: Now, on those evasive answers on the president's medical team, our sources tell us Mr. Trump is lightly instructing Dr. Conley what to disclose and what to keep secret from the American people.
[18:05:03]
And, as for concerns that the president's condition could take a turn for the worse, back here at the White House, where he will be shortly, Conley would not specify just how the medical team could make sure Mr. Trump will have everything he needs.
And on the potential for Mr. Trump to get back on the campaign trail with four weeks left in the 2020 election, Dr. Conley said -- quote -- "We will see."
But the Trump campaign is going well beyond that, saying the president will be participating in the next debate with Joe Biden on October 15 -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jim Acosta reporting for us, thank you.
Let's go to our White House correspondent, Jeremy Diamond, right now. He's over at the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center in Bethesda, Maryland, just outside Washington.
Jeremy, not everyone on the president's team apparently is OK with him leaving the hospital today.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Wolf.
Listen, we expect President Trump to be leaving this hospital within the next hour at some point. He said that he is expected to leave here at 6:30. The president has been agitating his advisers to get him out of the hospital over the last 24 hours.
He said publicly and he's also told aides privately that he feels much stronger, much better and ready to get back to the White House.
But, Wolf, there are concerns among many of the president's advisers that going back to the White House might be the wrong move. And as recently as this morning, Wolf, I was told by a source close to the White House that advisers to the president have been urging him to remain in the hospital.
Their main concern, Wolf, is that if the president's condition takes a turn for the worse once he goes back to the White House, that then he has to go back to the hospital, the optics of that would be terrible, particularly in this last month, this final stretch to Election Day.
BLITZER: All right, Jeremy, thank you very much, Jeremy Diamond over at the hospital for us, standing by for the president to leave.
Let's bring in our Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, our chief political correspondent, Dana Bash, our CNN special correspondent Jamie Gangel, and our senior political commentator, David Axelrod.
Sanjay, we're waiting for the president to depart, taking -- Marine One's going to fly him from Bethesda back to the South Lawn of the White House, about a 10-minute flight, as you know.
Based on everything we know about his illness, would you have made that decision to let him leave at this critical moment?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, his doctors have not given us a lot of information about the president's status.
So, I will say that I think the doctors at Walter Reed are considered world-class doctors, I'm sure providing very good care. But, based on what they have told us, it's concerning.
I mean, if you listen to Dr. Conley carefully today, he said, President Trump's not out of the woods yet. We are in uncharted territory right now. It's OK to go home.
I mean, that obviously doesn't follow, right, Wolf? I mean, we know that the president is a -- considered higher risk patient because of his age and preexisting conditions. And then, on top of that, he's had a couple of periods of time where he's shown us the impact this has had on his lungs, where he required additional oxygen.
He's been on three medications, none of which are FDA-approved medications. And it's not clear if this combination of medications has actually ever been used.
That's why you would monitor this at the hospital.
Again, I mean, I -- the doctors at the hospital, I'm sure, are world- class in terms of what they're doing. But in terms of, in this case, the patient, the president wanting to go home, that doesn't seem like a medical decision.
One thing I will point out with in particular with the medications is steroids, dexamethasone, the steroids. It's medication I use a lot with my own patients. It is designed to decrease inflammation. Typically, it's given to patients who are more seriously or critically ill with this disease.
But it can also cause lots of different changes. People get very hungry. They get very restless. They don't sleep well. They might have aggression, even mania, things like that, another reason, in combination with these other medications, you would want to monitor him very, very -- very, very closely.
BLITZER: The president, Sanjay, as you know, he's being treated in a private hospital suite, the so-called presidential suite of the hospital, by a team, some of the most experienced, best doctors in the world.
He's getting world-class treatment. He's also getting, as you point out, this experimental treatment that no one else has had access to. And when he returns to the White House, he will have an in-house medical team watching over him all day and all night.
How different is the reality that he's getting from most Americans who get sick with COVID?
GUPTA: Oh, I mean, it's night and day, Wolf. I mean, there were many people who were told basically, when they had these types of symptoms, to stay home. You may remember that in April time frame. Not only could they not go to the hospital. They were told, don't come to the hospital.
So it's night and day. And even the White House Medical Unit facilities that he has available to, him as he should -- he's president -- those facilities are far better than most people had access to even as they dealt with COVID on their own.
[18:10:05]
So, it's good that he has these facilities available to him. He's going to travel home with an I.V. -- we know that -- because he's going to need another dose of this Remdesivir tomorrow. He's going to continue to get these steroids.
Anybody who visits with him at the White House is going to need to be in full personal protective equipment. He's going to need to stay in isolation at least 10 days since the beginning of his symptoms.
So there's a lot that has to go into play here. And, I mean, is it possible to do all that at the White House? Perhaps. They don't have advanced imaging, like a C.T. scanner. They don't have the proximity to the intensive care unit, should he have a worsening.
And as you, again, heard Dr. Conley mentioned today, it's that seven to 10-day mark within someone's course of illness that is perhaps the most worrisome. That's where you really have to feel like -- that's why Dr. Conley said he's not out of the woods, which raises the question, why send him home right now?
BLITZER: Which is a really great question.
Dana, as we await the president's departure from the Walter Reed Hospital, I want to once again read this outrageous tweet that he posted just a little while ago.
I will put it up on the screen: "I will be leaving the great Walter Reed Medical Center today at 6:30 p.m. Feeling really good. Don't be afraid of COVID. Don't let it dominate your life. We have developed under the Trump administration some really great drugs and knowledge. I feel better than I did 20 years ago."
Dana, it's really shocking to hear that. How irresponsible is it for him to tell his supporters out there, his base, millions and millions of Americans, don't be afraid of COVID, when the country is still going through the worst health crisis in more than a century? More than 210,000 Americans have already died. Millions have been infected. And he's saying don't be afraid.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, just when we think there isn't anything else that is logic-bending, mind-bending, reality-bending, we are presented with another example of something that is.
And it's even worse, that to see and here...
BLITZER: By the way, let me interrupt for a moment.
BASH: Yes.
BLITZER: You can see Marine One. It's about to land at the Walter Reed Medical Center. That helicopter will take the president from there back to the South Lawn of the White House. We're going to monitor it every step of the way.
But there you see Marine One landing.
Go ahead, Dana. Sorry for interrupting.
BASH: No, you're good. I paused because I figured you would want to announce that.
So, back on the tweet. For the president of the United States to say even before he had COVID, don't worry about it, it's actually not that bad, effectively, is what he's saying, don't let it run your life, that would be one thing.
It's even more dangerous for him to be saying that now, because people who haven't had COVID or haven't, luckily, those people in the country who haven't known somebody who has had COVID, or, God forbid, died from COVID, they don't really know what it feels like. They just hear about it and see better on the news.
Well, now they're hearing from their own president, who does have it as we speak, saying, don't worry, it's not that bad.
That is just not true. Every single person is different. And he is not a medical professional. He is a doctor. He is a political person who wants to be reelected and is in danger of not being reelected because of his handling of this very virus.
He's trying to turn his own COVID-19 experience into a political plus, and not a political negative. And the reason it's dangerous is because most people out there -- no one out there -- I'm not going to say most people -- nobody out there has the kind of medical attention that he has been able to get, understandably so.
He's the president. He should get tremendous medical support. But he's gotten experimental treatments that most people just can't get.
BLITZER: If he wanted to do the right thing, he would delete that tweet. But, clearly, he doesn't delete his own tweets.
Jamie, you have been speaking with Republicans about the administration's handling of this situation. What are your sources telling you?
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: I have spoken to people.
My phone's been blowing up, frankly, since the joyride yesterday. And to Sanjay's point about the impact of steroids, a lot of the Republican sources I have spoken to are genuinely alarmed by yesterday's behavior, by today's tweet.
To Dana's point, one Republican source said to me that the tweet was shameful, disgraceful, a new low. Another source said to me -- and these are senior Republican officials who've been around Washington a long time.
One said to me, that the fact the president was going back to the White House is selfish and reckless and irresponsible. He's endangering other people.
In addition to the White House political staff, we shouldn't forget all the other people who work at the White House, the ushers, the valets other security, people who work in the kitchen, who take care of the first family.
[18:15:16]
All of these people are now potentially going to be at risk, and their families are going to be at risk. And even his Republican allies are very unhappy that yesterday happened with the Secret Service and riding around and that he's going back to the White House today, Wolf.
BLITZER: Yes, it's really amazing that this is going on at a sensitive moment like this.
David Axelrod, you served in the Obama White House. How would this have been handled differently during the Obama administration?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Just about every way, Wolf.
But I don't want to just limit it to the Obama administration. I think, in any normal administration, Republican or Democrat, you would have seen regular and open and honest briefings to the media, and you would have seen presidents following the science.
But -- and we should point out -- Dana talked about this a second ago. This is a microcosm of how he's dealt with the virus generally. He told Bob Woodward back in February, it was deadly, it was highly contagious, and he told the country it was like a flu, it was like a cold.
Well, he's doing it again, even in the face of his own virus, and it -- and people will listen to him. The president of the United States, his words matter. And so it is really, really -- it's almost criminal, frankly, because you're going to get people sick if they listen to your directives.
As for what Jamie said about these Republicans who are so appalled by this, they, frankly, should have been appalled by the things he's been saying right along. And it'll be more impressive if any of them are willing to say it publicly, because this is something that should transcend party.
This is a national emergency, and the president is causing it. And, yes, we don't even know what impact these medications are having on them and on his judgment as he does these things. So this is a really critical moment for the country.
BLITZER: We're told, David, that -- we showed the front door over there at the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center. We're told he might be walking out of that door on his way to Marine One, the helicopter that's already there awaiting the president.
And, David, you have been aboard Marine One. I have been aboard Marine One.
AXELROD: Yes.
BLITZER: Yes, it's really tight. It's small in there.
AXELROD: Very.
BLITZER: He's still contagious. And he's going to go in there. And there's going to be a couple pilots, Secret Service personnel, who knows who else.
But it's basically you can fit four or five, six, seven people. That's about it, right?
AXELROD: Absolutely.
And I thought about that the other day when I saw Hope Hicks and several of the other senior aides piling onto Marine One. I think it may have been on route to the debate or on the trip on Wednesday.
And I thought, gee, you know what, given as close as those quarters are, the fact that the -- that the authorities at the White House and the medical authorities at the White House didn't say, Mr. President, you're grounded, you're quarantined, you were in really close quarters with someone who is -- who has symptoms of this and later tested positive, it's really shocking.
But, yes, it is very tight quarters in Marine One.
BLITZER: So, Sanjay, so what do they have to do inside Marine One right now to guarantee that the president is not going to spread this virus to the others who are going to be in there with him?
GUPTA: You can't guarantee that, Wolf. That's the issue.
I mean, you can't -- he should be isolated. That's why you get isolated if you have a contagious disease that's been diagnosed. He has a symptomatic, contagious disease. He should be in isolation. He's gone around on a car ride. He's going to go around on two helicopter rides.
Apparently, he's walking around the hospital, he said, saying hello to soldiers. I don't know, were they in personal protective equipment when he was doing so?
So you can't guarantee safety. I hope what they're doing is that they're at least putting everyone who's going to be on that -- on that helicopter in personal protective equipment, so N95, masks, goggles, gowns, things like that.
That's really the best you can do. I hope that they increase the ventilation somehow within Marine One. Dr. Phillips was saying yesterday that the presidential limousine does not have ventilation. It's hermetically sealed, I think he wrote, which would obviously make it a dangerous situation.
I don't know if that's the case with the helicopter as well. But, to directly answer your question, you can't make it safe. That's why he should be in isolation.
BLITZER: And, Sanjay, Marine One, once it takes off from the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center in Bethesda to the South Lawn of the White House, that's a flight of about 10, 12 minutes or so.
[18:20:01]
If he were to drive in an SUV in a presidential motorcade, the streets cleared for him, it would probably take at least 25 or 30 minutes to get to the White House.
What would have been safer, given the fact the president is still contagious with COVID-19?
GUPTA: Well, look, again, neither would be safe.
He has -- I just don't want to minimize this. He has a contagious -- he's symptomatic with a contagious, potentially deadly disease.
I think it needs to be spelled out in those stark terms. He should be in isolation, very clearly. I mean, people who are even worried about this are quarantining themselves and shouldn't be doing this.
But shorter duration would be better, because close contact is typically defined as 10, 15 minutes. So you're sort of at that point, I guess, is what you're saying for the helicopter ride.
But I don't want to in any way give the impression that this is OK to do, because, again, he's potentially putting people at risk doing this.
BLITZER: Stand by, Sanjay.
Jeremy Diamond is our correspondent. He's there at the Walter Reed Hospital for us.
You're getting some new information. What are you picking up, Jeremy?
DIAMOND: Well, Wolf, it appears that the president is preparing to stage some kind of a dramatic exit.
We know that the pool reporters who are on scene at the front steps of Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, they have seen some lights already being erected there. So, it appears that perhaps the president is going to make some kind of dramatic exit, as he is often wont to do.
And I also just want to point out here, we're in -- at the front gates of Walter Reed, and this is where we were when the president arrived here on Friday as well. But there's a major difference, Wolf, and that is that they have entirely shut down the road in front of Walter Reed. I don't know exactly what that means, Wolf, but, certainly, when the
president arrived here, also arriving on Marine One on Friday, there was not this kind of security perimeter.
We know yesterday already the president made a drive-by to wave to some of his supporters who were assembled here. So, listen, we're prepared for anything, Wolf. But, as of now, we are just waiting to see what kind of exit the president is going to make and whether he's going to try and make one last attempt to see his supporters who have been out here for several days, wishing him a speedy recovery.
BLITZER: Just a personal question, Jeremy.
Is not Rockville Pike behind you, which is a main street out there?
DIAMOND: Yes, this is Rockville Pike, so one of the main thoroughfares here, and it's shut down for a good two, three blocks, Wolf, so a pretty wide perimeter.
And it is very similar to what we saw yesterday before the president's motorcade rolled through the street moments before the police began to shut things down. They started moving protesters. So, obviously, there is a significant security perimeter here.
We don't know yet exactly what that means, but obviously something to keep in mind, as we await the president. And, again, we know this is the optics president. He likes to make a show things. He likes to project strength.
That is something that he is trying to do at this moment, is to show that he is not the president who's the 74-year-old man, who has been laid up in the hospital for several days now. So, obviously, that is all playing into this image-making, as the president prepares to leave the hospital in a few moments -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Very interesting, indeed.
CNN law enforcement analyst Jonathan Wackrow is with us right now. He's a former Secret Service agent.
How worried are you, Jonathan, about your former colleagues who are going to be protecting -- that's their job, to protect the president of the United States. But they're going to be in very close contact with him as he makes this Marine One flight from the hospital back to the White House?
JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, Wolf, thank you. Listen, I'm very worried about him.
But they are professionals. They are mission-driven. They are going to focus on ensuring that the president of the United States is safe, and that the environment is secure for him to go from the hospital to Marine One back to the White House.
I mean, I think it really speaks to their level of professionalism, where they're willing to put their own safety and security aside, knowing full well that they could be exposed to this virus. They're putting that aside to focus on the protection of the president.
And it's not just at this moment. They do that on a continuous basis. Every single day, they're out there putting their own safety concerns aside to focus on the protectee.
But, in this instance, listen, I said this before, Wolf. There are consequences -- and there's a ripple effect of those consequences that goes beyond that individual agent. Those agents have families. They have friends that they interact with. So the second-order effects to a potential exposure could be significant. That's what I worry about. That's what's keeping me up at night.
BLITZER: Yes, that's what I worry about as well. I spent seven years as a White House correspondent, worked closely with the Secret Service.
[18:25:00]
I know what's going on as they try to protect the president of the United States.
Jamie, you have worked closely with the Secret Service over the years as well. What are you seeing? What are you hearing?
GANGEL: Look, these are dedicated, just remarkable people.
And I have been speaking to several veteran Secret Service sources in the last couple of days. And they're genuinely worried. They have been putting themselves on the line. They have been exposed over and over for the last seven months.
There was a group from the East Coast that had to quarantine in Phoenix at a hotel. And I spoke to one Secret Service veteran who said to me that there was a real dismay at the lack of consideration.
The source said, it's very hard to say no to the president. It's very hard to be on his detail and wear a mask, when you know that he really doesn't want people around him wearing masks.
And the source also said to me, we signed up to take a bullet for the president, but we didn't sign up for this kind of reckless situation where we would get sick or get our families sick as a result.
So I think there's a real just sense of just disappointment and concern on the part of these people, who have been willing to put their lives on the line -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Interesting, indeed.
Jim Acosta is still with us.
Jim, as we await the departure of the president from the Walter Reed Medical Center, I take it he's spending a little time tweeting once again. What's the latest?
ACOSTA: That's right, Wolf. In just the last couple of minutes, he tweeted: "We will be back on
the campaign trail soon."
That is, I think, a pretty clear indication as to where his head is right now. I have been talking to a number of sources inside and outside the White House, inside the campaign, people who advise the president.
And, I mean, I think this is a pretty clear illustration of where his mind is at the moment. He wants to get back out on the campaign trail. He wants to go back to having rallies. He wants to go back to having events, which is just sort of a staggering, astonishing thought, given the fact that he is, as Sanjay was just saying a few moments ago, recovering from the coronavirus and still potentially contagious with a deadly disease, potentially deadly disease.
Now, I will tell you, Wolf, when the president was at Walter Reed yesterday, according to our sources, clamoring to get out of Walter Reed, clamoring to get out of the hospital, he was essentially telling some of the people there who were listening to him that he feels as though he looks weak being inside the hospital, being hospitalized, that this doesn't look good, when you contrast the way he looks in the hospital with Joe Biden out on the campaign trail, holding events and so on.
And then this is part of the motivating reason for the president to get out of the hospital and get back to the White House, so he can portray an image of -- that this -- that he's been able to conquer this, he's been able to beat this.
But if you talk to any medical expert, I mean, he -- and, as Dr. Conley was saying just a short while ago, he is not out of the woods yet.
Now, I talked to a Trump campaign adviser earlier this afternoon about whether or not this is a good idea for the president to come back to the White House. And keep in mind, they're trying to rearrange some of the facilities here, so he can essentially work out of the Executive Mansion in the residence, disregarding the very high likelihood that he will probably, at some point, try to make his way over to the Oval Office.
But just getting to this issue of whether or not this is at all a good idea, this adviser said, "We're beyond thinking right now."
And so I think that's a pretty clear reflection, Wolf, of the fact that this is all being driven by the president. We saw the White House medical team essentially releasing the kind of information that the president wanted out there.
We saw it. We know from our sources the president's been clamoring to get out of the hospital and come back to the White House. And that's about that's it -- that's what's going to take place next.
And I suppose, Wolf, if he's pushing his team to go back out on the campaign trail and have rallies and so on, he will be doing that too. It's an astonishing thought, but I think that's what's coming next.
BLITZER: Yes, it is astonishing.
Dana is still with us as well.
Dana, he flew from the South Lawn of the White House to the hospital Friday night. So, it's Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday. Four days, he's been in the hospital right there. He's obviously anxious to get out of the hospital.
I wonder if, when he leaves the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, he will actually stop and speak to that pool of reporters or simply walk out, wave and board Marine One.
BASH: It's going to be fascinating to see what he does.
[18:30:00]
You know, hopefully if he does stop and speak, he is wearing a mask and stays far her way. There was, I think, maybe an iconic image of his opponent, Joe Biden, speaking to reporters today, and his wife, walked up behind him and physically pulled him back, which was, I think, really symbolic in a lot of ways. We'll see what happens with the president.
But just to kind of piggyback off what Jim Acosta was just talking about, I spoke to a source today who is familiar with the president's phone calls from the hospital today. And what the president was saying was, and this is according to a source, I need to get out of here. But the response, and this is from an ally, was, you know, just be careful, Mr. President.
Not just because this is about your health, but if you want to get out of there because you think that this is bad for you politically, it might be even worse if you go too soon and then you end up back either in the hospital or just in worse shape because you're pushing it too hard, bad politically, bad for his re-election prospects if that happens, again, never mind his health prospects. So, you know, it is a gamble. And he obviously feels extremely strong. He is jacked up on a lot of medications and treatments right now. So, in some ways, it's understandable.
And Wolf, if I may, I just want to also talk about the Secret Service, because every single one of us who are on right now has had the benefit of being protected by the Secret Service as part of the presidential bubble, either inside the White House or on presidential trips. We know how hard they work. We know the kind of dedication that they have and the oath they take when they go in for training, as Jamie says, to take a bullet for the president. But they did not go in with the understanding they would take a bullet from the president, and in this case, the bullet being a deadly virus.
And that's why we are, as reporters, hearing so much from people around the Secret Service how concerned they are for their brethren who were with the president.
BLITZER: Yes. Sanjay, I want you to weigh in on the Secret Service as well, because they are amazing, they do such wonderful work.
GUPTA: They obviously do, Wolf. And, you know, it is tough to, I guess, balance this part of the job with the idea that the president has this contagious virus again, you know, and potentially putting them at risk.
I do want to follow-up on something Dana said as well about the medications, you know? Again, we know that he is on a five-day course of this remdesivir medication. He got a dose today, they said, after the doctor's press conference, but before he is leaving, and then he's going to get another dose at the White House.
But the steroids, dexamethasone, any kind of steroid, prednisone, people have heard the names of these various steroids before, one thing that - if you've ever taken them, if you've heard about them, you know that people generally do feel good on these medications.
They're strong anti-inflammatories, people feel like they've got a lot of energy. They don't even want to sleep, they're ravenously hungry all the time, sometimes they can feel agitated even with that from a mental standpoint, even manic.
But the concern, Wolf, is that it's not -- the steroids don't treat the underlying illness. They basically are decreasing inflammation in the body, which is not something that people will stay on these medications for a very long time.
So, I think, the real question again is, are his symptoms being masked more so than being treated by steroids. And it's part of the reason he suddenly is wanting to leave, talking about going on the campaign trail having just been, you know, pretty serious ill a couple days ago -- serious illness a couple of days ago. Is that because of the steroids more than the improvement in his overall course of his disease?
Anybody who has taken steroids know they're going to feel well for awhile, but, you know, eventually, you taper off the steroids and you have to still deal with the underlying illness.
BLITZER: And, you know, and we don't know, Sanjay, how these various drugs that he is taking, whether the monoclonal antibody cocktail, which is experimental, totally remdesivir, dexamethasone, whenever you go for a physical checkup, the doctor always says, what are you taking, what kind of vitamins, what kind of drugs, they want to know how they interact with each other, and the impact and side effects and all that. We have no idea how these drugs interact in a patient with COVID-19, do we?
GUPTA: No, we don't, Wolf. And if you look at monoclonal antibodies, specifically the trial that we heard about, we didn't get to see all of the data was just down 275 patients. There's a lot of enthusiasm around monoclonal antibodies, and understandably so, you're giving antibodies to help someone fight the infection.
But in conjunction with remdesivir, in conjunction with dexamethasone, we don't know about the interactions really at all. [18:35:04]
And I would say President Trump is probably one of the only people in the world right now who has probably taken this particular combination of drugs. I mean, maybe there were a few others. But it is very, very uncommon.
And I think Dr. Conley was sort of hinting at this today during his press conference. We always have to sort of read between the lines, but he was saying, look, we are in uncharted territory here. You know, some of what is unfolding right now with the president's health has not -- we have not seen the sort of treatment protocol in anybody. And I thought he was making the case that the president should stay in the hospital and be monitored for longer periods of time.
But despite saying that, he said, we're going home, he will have 24/7 sort of care there at the White House. And they're going to -- they're taking a risk, Wolf, every step of the way here, the transportation, the type of care that he will get at the White House versus the hospital. It's a risk.
BLITZER: Yes. And we're told momentarily the president will be walking out the door. I'm sure he will be surrounded by Secret Service and others as well.
Dr. David Shulkin is watching all of this together with us. He's the former Secretary of Veterans Affairs.
Dr. Shulkin, what do you think when you see what's going on, what the president is saying, what the doctors are saying, the information they're not providing to the American public? You've been to that hospital many times.
DR. DAVID SHULKIN, FORMER SECRETARY OF VETERANS AFFAIRS: Yes, Wolf. Walter Reed is a terrific place to get care. And, certainly, the president has a great unit in which he is cared for, but, boy, is this a missed opportunity.
You know, people look up to the president and you want the president to model the type of behavior that you want other people to have. We certainly don't want others who have been diagnosed with COVID or under quarantine to be going outside and exposing others to risk. We certainly don't want to expose people like our Secret Service agents. As Secretary, I had a big security detail, and they've become family. And you -- these are high risk jobs. You don't want to put them at higher risk than that.
But I think most importantly, this is so disappointing, because this is a great moment of teaching for the country. We have a president who not only has gotten this illness but so many of his staff and other members of government.
And to be able to make the point that this is a very contagious illness, this is serious, it should be treated seriously, and people have to respect it, we're really missing this as an opportunity to come together under a common understanding for the country to develop a national strategy, something as you know that's been missing since the beginning of the pandemic.
BLITZER: You see some people beginning to walk through doors, look at the White House photographer there going to take some of the pictures of the president walking out.
William Cohen is with us as well, the former Defense Secretary.
There's a lot of national security implications that are at risk right now, given the fact that the president of the United States, Mr. Secretary, has COVID-19, he's contagious, he's leaving this hospital after four days, now heading back to the White House.
WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: Wolf, he has said that he is a wartime president. He's the commander in chief. Under these circumstances, he ought to be relieved of his duty. He has placed thousands, hundreds of thousands of people at risk by his --
BLITZER: He's walking out now, Mr. Secretary. He's making his way. Let's pause for a moment, see if he speaks or if he is just going to wave and head to Marine One. I'm going to see if we can hear this. Let's pause a moment.
REPORTER: Mr. President, how many staff are sick? How many of your staff are sick?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you very much. Thanks.
REPORTER: Do you think you might be a super-spreader Mr. President?
BLITZER: All right, so there you saw it. The president basically said, thank you. You're looking at an aerial shot now of that little motorcade. We assume that that motorcade is going to take the president over to Marine One.
Mr. Secretary, Secretary Cohen, I want you to stand by. I want Sanjay Gupta to get analysis of how the president looked, how he sounded as he walked out and the potential danger to all those individuals who were surrounding him and were as close to him as they were.
GUPTA: Right, Wolf. Well, it is hard to read too much into the walking out of the hospital. And think he just said thank you. I think that's all I heard. I think --
BLITZER: That's all he said, yes.
[18:40:00]
GUPTA: Yes. I just don't think you can read into that.
Obviously, it's good to see that he's not requiring any assistance. He doesn't seem frail at all. That's good. There was nothing sort of that particularly struck me about that. I'll look at that video a bit more later.
But I still go back to this idea that you're still -- regardless of what you see, what doctors look at is what's happening inside of his body. And what we know is that he has a contagious virus, this coronavirus, and he has been symptomatic from this, and pretty considerably symptomatic from this.
There's a concern now, he is in a vehicle, where you're in close quarters with somebody. Obviously, I don't know what ventilation is like. It's probably a short little ride there to the helicopter. But then, every step of the way, there are people who are potentially at risk.
And, you know, I mean you've seen many people at the White House sort of becoming infected. I think people there know how contagious this virus can be and what situations it is most contagious. Walking outside, not as contagious. In those vehicles, much more contagious.
So I will look to see if the helicopter pilots and drivers are wearing personal protective equipment. I imagine they will be, because that's what they have to do to best protect themselves.
BLITZER: And they certainly do. And you see that little motorcade arriving there. The president will get out of that SUV, walk up the stairs on Marine One. We'll see how many other people board Marine One now and head back for that 10, 12-minute flight to the south lawn of the White House.
Brian Stelter is with us, our Media Correspondent. Brian, what did you think of that little photo-op, the president walking out of the Walter Reed National Military Center getting -- without saying anything, just basically thank you, ignored reporters' questions, gave a thumbs up and got in the SUV.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Right, one reporter asked if he believes Trump -- if the President believes he could be a super- spreader himself. That question was ignored.
You know, Wolf, I think all of it makes sense when you view it through the prism of the following idea. The president views every day as a television show. He produces the show, and he wants to be the star of the show. He's not making two days ahead, or two weeks ahead, he's not thinking about how he's going to be feeling at the White House next week. He's just trying to win today, make today's T.V. show the best he can, were he wins, he's a star of the show. I think that's what we are seeing on the screen now.
It is cynical, it is performative and it is dangerous given his own health and condition that he is off producing the show on his own. I think that's the logical -- well, not logical, but that's the illogical strategy to all of this when we see it on live television. He knows the nightly newscasts are on right now. He knows all the candidates are watching.
BLITZER: All right there he is, there's the president, Brian. He's obviously stopping again, giving another thumbs up. He's going to get aboard Marine One, make that brief flight to the south lawn of the White House. We're going to try to watch as much of this as we can.
Brian, go ahead.
STELTER: It's not a real show of strength but it's a performative show of strength. This is what strong men do in autocratic regimes. Of course, thankfully, we are in a democracy, but this is the kind of thing you see from strong men, who want to appear to be leading. It's a dear leader sort of approach. And I think that is what we're seeing on our television screens.
Meanwhile, there are big questions about the cover-up. You know, why won't they tell us about his testing history, when he was tested. We have moved from possibly being a cover-up to actually being a cover- up. And whether the president is at Walter Reed or back at the White House, reporters are going to keep demanding answers to those questions.
BLITZER: Yes. And I want to bring back the former defense secretary, William Cohen, interrupted as he was walking out of the hospital there, Mr. Secretary.
Just pick up the thought you were making that the president basically should transfer power right now to the vice president. Is that what I'm hearing?
COHEN: When I look at what has happened on this battlefield, the notion that he would have a commander in chief suffer as many as 200,000 deaths in this country and not be relieved of his command is really quite astonishing.
And the fact is that you had Bob Woodward on earlier this evening, this afternoon. And I go back to the Nixon days and Watergate days when the question was, what did you know, when did you know it. And the answer is I knew everything from the beginning and he did nothing to put together a strategic plan in which to keep American people safe. And he has gone out of his way to brag about not having to wear a mask, don't be afraid. I think we have to be afraid, very afraid of the COVID, but also afraid of him.
And I was following Dr. Gupta, what he said about not the physicality of it but the mental aspect of it when you are, quote, jacked up on various drugs to make you feel better. That also affects your mental capacity as well.
And, again, it goes back to Nixon days when Jim Schlesinger, the Secretary of Defense said, by the way, if you get any kind of commands dealing with nuclear or other weapons, make sure you check with me or the secretary of state.
[18:45:02]
Now, I think this is a situation in which we have to be careful, very careful during the next four days and beyond. They say he is not out of the woods yet. When do we get out of the woods from comments that he's making, putting the American people in jeopardy by suggesting to them, look at me, I am strong, I feel more youthful than ever before, so you don't have to wear a mask. Again, as commander-in-chief, I would say to my soldiers spread out.
You're making it too easy for the enemy to attack you in clusters, spread out. Make sure that we don't give them that kind of concentrated target to hit.
And yet, he's done none of that. He hasn't spread them out. He's not had them wear masks.
The only weapon we have to protect ourselves, the only armor is a mask until such time as we have a vaccine. So, I would say as commander in chief he has failed, I think his leadership has failed, and I think that we're in danger as a result of it. And so I hope that the election comes soon because we need to be out of the woods that we have been in for the past four years.
You know that I said this on your program right before the election, I thought he was unfit to be commander in chief, I feel that today, and he demonstrates it day after day when he tells people don't worry, this is not serious.
Look, if I can beat it, you can beat it. And, by the way, at the same time he is getting extraordinary medical care, he is trying to take away medical care from millions of American people.
BLITZER: Yeah.
COHEN: So, how does that jive with the commander in chief saying --
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: All right. You can see Marine One, Mr. Secretary, Marine One now lifting off, taking off. His supporters are out there. They're supporting him even as he is leaving, they're on the street there, surrounding the Bethesda, the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center in Maryland.
It's going to be about a ten-minute flight. We'll see as much of it as we can as marine one continues. You hear some cheering in the background as it is going through Bethesda, make it to District of Columbia, and then land on the South Lawn of the White House.
So, David Gergen, like William Cohen, you remember the Nixon administration. You remember Watergate. You can make some comparison.
Give us a sense of the history that's unfolding as we speak right now.
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's one of the most consequential moments in our political lives. Bill Cohen, wow, he was on fire. I think it is representative, Wolf, of what's happening behind the scenes, with many people of stature had honorable careers, long careers on both sides of the aisle are just fed up, fed up. They see this as a direct danger not only to the republic but they see their own legacies being challenged and crumbling in many ways.
A lot of this, I don't think it started with Nixon, we had big scandals before, but I think the Nixon cloud hangs over this. And that, you know, John Dean to have a continuing voice in public affairs, because we need to keep remembering that when you start going down a path of cover-up and illegality and criminality, the pillars of the republican begin to crumble themselves.
That was what -- Bob Woodward and I used to talk about this when he was at "The Post" and I was at the White House, saying we really wondered whether the pillars would survive the Nixon administration. They did. But I think now we are in another moment which is very defining. It's going to have a big impact for a long time.
I did feel, Wolf, if I am permitted one more point, I did feel tonight that the president was returning from the world of medicine to the world of politics, and people have been on the Democratic side, have generally been pretty quiet last few days. You know, Biden pulled negative ads, for example. He is going to get in the thick of it now, it will be a fight. One of the things you'll hear again and again, we have millions of people going to vote early. They deserve to know the health outlook for their -- for one of their both nominees, both nominees need to tell us and tell us in detail what their health situations are.
I think that the Trump people are going to resist that. They clearly are trying to cover things from us. But I think there's going to be an all-out war about getting and having the public see before the country goes to the polls, having a chance to look at the health records of both candidates.
BLITZER: You heard Bob Woodward, you know, David, say he was pretty surprised, stunned to hear you describe the president of the United States as a madman. Coming from you, he thought that was so significant, just for viewers who didn't hear you. Give us context of what you were suggesting.
GERGEN: Well, you were asking for an overall view, I appreciate what Bob said. You were asking for an overall sense of the landscape, where are we now. And I said that I wake up in the mornings often feeling like we're in the grips of a madman.
It just seems to me so much is irrational, so many things you and I believe in, the values we share with a lot of other Americans, the sense we have that our institutions are important, that we have to have trust in our government.
[18:50:10]
And along and along come Trump and sort of tries to knock all that over.
You do wonder who he's really working for at the end of the day because there's a madness to this that most people are just, again, they're fed up, they want to see something new. These next weeks are going to be incredibly important in American history.
BLITZER: You see Marine One making its way through Bethesda, on its way to the District of Columbia, then heading over to the South Lawn of the White House. Dana Bash is watching all of this unfold as well. Dana, these are incredibly, incredibly risky moments.
First of all, the president does have COVID-19. But when the president of the United States makes a statement about COVID-19 and he tells his supporters, tells the American people, don't be afraid of COVID, don't let it dominate your life, after 210,000 Americans have died, after so many millions have suffered from COVID-19, the worst public health crisis in America in more than a century, what is he thinking?
BASH: He's thinking that he's going to try to turn his virus, the fact that he has coronavirus, into a political plus, because that is the way Donald Trump has operated his whole life. And to be fair to him in terms of his perspective, it's worked for him, both in his private life and then now in his political life up until now.
But he's also never contracted a deadly virus, a virus that has taken the lives of 210,000 Americans, and as we watch this helicopter, what a scene. What a scene to watch Marine One go back from Walter Reed in Rockville, Maryland, down -- basically down the Potomac toward the White House.
And to think about the fact, Wolf, that the president of the United States is heading back to a White House that is a COVID hot spot, that is a place teeming with the deadly that this country has been trying to avoid getting for so long, and that this president is being blamed for not --
BLITZER: I interrupt for a moment, you know, Dana.
BASH: Sure.
BLITZER: You see the Marine One flying over the Jefferson Memorial, Washington monument over there. We just a minute or so flying over the Pentagon, then flying over Reagan national airport, now making its way, you see the White House making its way to the South Lawn, that's the way it comes in, make sort of a U-turn as it heads to the South Lawn of the White House.
Brian Stelter, this is really a pretty amazing photo op that we've been seeing over these past 10 minutes, this brief flight of Marine One.
STELTER: A photo-op and a power trip, Wolf, a literal power trip. Think about what we're seeing, the Pentagon in the distance, we are seeing the president exerting his power, right, the leader of the executive branch, showing off all of the tools at his disposals.
And it reminds me a little bit of the night the Republican National Convention when the president there on that same South Lawn held his acceptance speech. It was just a few short weeks ago, and he used that same stage that he's now using to portray a victory from the coronavirus, when he's so quick sick, when every indication is that he is not out of the woods but he wants us all to see and believe he's out of the woods. It is a contradiction in front of our eyes. And it's hard for folks to
wrap their heads around. So I hope that doctors and experts on all the channels, including on the president's favorite channel, are putting this in context and explaining that the president is trying to portray himself as the winner against a deadly virus but it is the virus that is in charge.
BLITZER: Jim Acosta's over at the White House for us.
Jim, Marine One about to land on the South Lawn of the White House. The president will walk down those stairs, head toward the entrance of the White House. I guess there's a pool of reporters, photojournalists already stationed there, Jim, and will ask the president questions. We'll see if he answers any questions or if he just says "thank you" and gives a thumbs up.
ACOSTA: That's right, Wolf. They'll try to ask him some questions as he comes into the White House. But keep in mind, this is not just the president returning to the White House. This may be patient zero. This is the virus coming back to the White House.
And I will tell you, Wolf, having been here all day, it is eerily quiet and empty inside the corridors of the West Wing, with Kayleigh McEnany, the White House press secretary, testing positive for the virus. Two press assistants testing positive for the virus. They evacuated much of the West Wing earlier today. All of those staffers have gone home. Just about all of those staffers have gone home.
So, forget about the emperor has no clothes.
[18:55:01]
The emperor has no staff tonight. And they're going to have to ramp that back up, Wolf, to get this White House up to speed for the return of the president. I mean, it is -- it is sort of extraordinary to think about.
And I will tell you, there are members of the press corps who are concerned about this. I was just talking with a print photographer not too long ago who was asking me, Jim, would you mind not asking the president any questions when he returns to the White House? Because I don't want the president to come over and breathe on me when he answers his questions.
Wolf, that is not an exaggeration. These are the kinds of conversations going on at the White House right now because people are petrified, they are frightened that this virus is just working its way through the grounds of the White House and infecting people left and right. And the president may think he's flexing his muscles right now and he's about to go out on the campaign trail and go back to the way things were.
But just about everybody else, not just in the press but among his staff, people are just petrified that this is getting out of control.
BLITZER: Yeah, it's a really nerve-wracking -- and some members of the White House press corps have already come down with COVID-19, right?
ACOSTA: That's right, that's right.
BLITZER: Do we know how many?
ACOSTA: We believe three right now. And Michael Shear of "The New York Times" is one of them. And as he has been explaining over the last couple of days, nobody from the White House reached out to him to let him know they were doing contact tracing. So it appears they are not doing the kind of contact tracing you would expect after a super spreader event inside the white house. And so yes, Wolf, reporters are getting infected.
I just got another COVID test back yesterday. We're all getting tested repeatedly because we're concerned about contracting this virus. And it is just a very serious, dangerous situation for anybody on the grounds here.
And I'll tell you, I have my mask in my ear -- or in my pocket right now, because as soon as I'm done with this live shot I put my mask back on. That is the way life is over here, wolf. We have to take every precaution every waking moment as we're on the grounds here. It is just that dangerous and risky being here on the grounds right now.
BLITZER: And you can see the door over there with the American flags on the balcony at the White House. We're looking at it from the South Lawn of the White House. The president may go up there, either wave or has another little photo opportunity up there.
Jamie Gangel is watching all of this unfold. We're not going to see -- we'll get the video of the president walking down the stairs of Marine One making his way toward the residence there, the back of the White House, as we all know, Jamie, and we'll have to get that videotape and show it to our viewers. We're not going to -- I don't think we're going to be able to show it live. But we will at some point see the president I believe, given the fact that those flags are out there, the door is open, the lights are there, the president at some point will walk up to that balcony and at least show himself and wave to the American people.
GANGEL: No question, Wolf. And I just want to underscore something that Brian Stelter said about the president showing off. We have for the last ten minutes been showing --
BLITZER: There you see him. Hold on a minute, Jamie. You can see the president. Clearly he didn't stop and talk to reporters. But he's walking up those stairs.
And let's see what he does. I assume he'll pause and wave. Let me pause for a second.
Well, clearly the photo op there. You saw the president walk up. He's standing there. And he did -- he did take off his mask, put it in his pocket.
I don't know what kind of statement he's trying to make by showing off that he can take off his mask. Gives a thumbs up over there. But it's clearly all about the photo op. The president wants to show he's back in action. And that's why he took off his mask, trying to give some sort of symbolic gesture there. And it's not necessarily the right gesture to give at this point.
You see one photographer, a White House photographer, there up on the balcony with him. I hope he knows what he's doing, that White House photographer. Could be pretty dangerous. Because the president clearly, Sanjay, very quickly to you, Sanjay, the president clearly is very contagious, right? We don't have Sanjay right now. But clearly, the president is contagious right now.
He's saluting -- he's standing there. He's going to go inside. And it's really, I dare to say, a rather reckless development that the president is doing. As contagious as he is with COVID-19, he took off his mask, is saluting.
And he clearly is more interested in the photo op right now than getting inside. You see Marine One now leaving the South Lawn of the White House, but the president still there, trying to show that things are getting back to normal. I guess that's his message. That's what he's trying to show.
But clearly the fact that he took off his mask is rather reckless, I will say that.
I want to turn over our coverage right now to Erin Burnett. She's watching all of this unfold.
Erin?
