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President Trump Returns to White House from Walter Reed after Receiving Treatment for COVID-19; President Trump Compares COVID-19 with Seasonal Flu in Tweet; New Poll has Democratic Presidential Candidate Joe Biden with Large Lead over President Trump; Trump Continues to Downplay Coronavirus After Leaving Hospital. Aired 8- 8:30a ET

Aired October 06, 2020 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: NEW DAY continue right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Though he may not entirely be out of the woods yet, the team and I agree that all our evaluations support the president's safe return home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He writes this tweet and says you don't have to father COVID. We have to fear COVID. It is a contagious, deadly disease.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is this macho thing I'm not going to wear a mask? Big deal. Does it hurt you? Be patriotic for God's sake.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They live inside a different reality over at the White House because a deadly virus is circulating inside the West Wing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the 11th day in a row of increased hospitalizations week over week. This is not a good trend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All level of baseline number of cases per day is higher than I want to see it. It's stuck at 40,000.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

BERMAN: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. And 210,000 Americans are dead from coronavirus, and the average daily case rate is rising. Masks save lives. Masks save lives, and the president is taking his off. So this is what really happened in this grand theatrical gesture of whipping off his mask in this Sunset Boulevard episode on the White House balcony last night. He takes his mask off so the American people can see it. Masks save lives. Social distancing, isolating might help also, but after this, he

turned around and walked into the White House. He walked into this coronavirus hot zone. He walked into this building where we've seen people in hazmat suits cleaning up because so many people have been infected. It looks like Chernobyl inside now they're scrubbing it down so carefully.

Beyond that, there is so much that this White House is now withholding. They say don't be afraid of coronavirus, the president says. But they won't tell us if the president's lungs have been damaged, whether or not he has pneumonia. When was his last negative test? That matters not just for him, but dozens, maybe hundreds of others who came in contact with him. Now, these people are not being called in any kind of organized contact tracing effort. CNN has just learned from a federal health official the White House has declined, declined offers from the CDC to help investigate what looks like an outbreak at that announcement of Amy Coney Barrett as the Supreme Court nominee.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Also, more breaking news overnight. "The New York Times" reports that top White House officials are blocking new safety guidelines that would push the emergency release of a vaccine past Election Day. The scientists do not want to rush it before it's ready. Clearly the president wants an Election Day deadline. The FDA tells CNN those guidelines are under review.

We are just four weeks away today from the election, and CNN has new poll numbers showing how the past week has changed the race for President Trump. Former Vice President Joe Biden now leads President Trump by 16 points.

We're going to talk about all of this. We are joined by CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN political director David Chalian, CNN senior political reporter Nia-Malika Henderson. Great to see all of you. Sanjay, if I had a dime for every time your head exploded --

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: -- I'd have retired. But I think that you are about to tell us if you could choose the worst timing for the moment that the president proudly unmasked himself last night, it would be that date, because this is the moment that the country is gearing up for whatever the fall and winter that we've been warned about now for months is going to look like. And can you just give us a snapshot of where we are right now?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I've totally run out of adjectives, right, to describe what's been going on over the last several months. But this is one of those moments where we still have within our capability as a country to save tens of thousands if not 100,000 lives by just basically adopting a simple public health measure. Not even saying you need to shut things down again or even fundamentally change your life, just wear a mask when you go outside.

People have been so stuck on the idea, well, you didn't say it from the very beginning to wear a mask, therefore, we are not going to do it. In February there was still emerging science, there may have been shortages on masks. By March and certainly into April the advice was clear. Here we are in October, and people are still not wearing masks, and then the president does what he does, comes up there, takes off the mask in this symbolic way, and then follows up, couples it with this message, no need to fear the coronavirus.

My heart just sank. It's just, it's -- first of all, the masks alone could save lives. But then this idea that it's sort of endorsing herd immunity, just let the virus tear through the nation -- 2 million people could die. Hospitals would become overwhelmed. The country would come to a screeching halt.

[08:05:06]

It represents just the worst things about America. We're willing to eat ourselves to death and then go get a coronary bypass operation. We smoke and then we have lung surgery. It's amazing to me -- this is the same thing. We don't want to do the simple things. Instead I will go on monoclonal antibodies, remdesivir, and dexamethasone instead of just wearing a mask.

So yes, I guess head explode? Perhaps. There are lay ups that we could just have and have huge, huge benefit for the country, and we keep missing them.

BERMAN: Sanjay, I don't think you any longer have to wonder whether or not the president is implicitly or explicitly endorsing herd immunity. He just wrote about it on Twitter here. Let me read you what he just wrote moments ago. He says, "Flu season is coming up. Many people every year, sometimes more than 100,000 and despite the vaccine die from the flu. Are we going to close down the country? No. We've learned to live with it, just like we're learning to live with COVID. In most populations far less lethal."

So there you are. That is the Scott Atlas theory, one that doctors like you, Sanjay, point out could lead to a million deaths in the United States if we just let it rip. That's the president of the United States who is confined to the White House now on all kinds of drugs keeping him alive, says we need to let this virus rip, more or less.

Nia-Malika Henderson, presented with options that can save lives, including wearing masks, the president has often chosen the other direction. He chooses the opposite of what the doctors say will save lives. Contact tracing is one example of this. We're learning this morning that the White House has refused offers from the CDC to help contact trace whatever outbreak has happened inside the White House. "The New York Times" is reporting they are not even contact tracing the Amy Coney Barrett even where more than 10 people we now know -- more than 10 people were there, are infected now. So what does that tell us about how much this White House cares about saving lives?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: It tells us that they don't care very much. I think the message that Donald Trump sent when he ripped off the mask was he doesn't care about the lives of those people in that building. And he certainly doesn't want evidence that an event like the Amy Coney Barrett event actually was a super spreader event, and possibly he gave it to other people. If you remember early on, he tried to make it seem like Hope Hicks was patient zero and she was the one spreading and she apparently got it from some military guy who may have hugged her or some silly story like that. So that's where it seems like they want to keep this, basically confined to a couple people and no sense that this may have spread beyond the 10 or 12 people we already know about.

It also suggests that these big rallies that he's been holding, that those have likely been spreading the virus as well. We of course never necessarily really know that because there is no contact tracing there. But this is a frightening, frightening period in this country. The president, after having contracted the coronavirus and then developed COVID is right back where he started, talking about the flu, downplaying masks, talking about herd immunity as we go into the flu season. This is in some ways the worst thing that could have happened as the nation and the world tries to fight this pandemic.

The president has clearly gotten his talking points from FOX News. I imagine he spent a lot of time in the hospital watching FOX News and this talking point now that he is a kind of warrior that had to go out and get this to learn about it. It's clear that he hasn't really learned any lesson about it and he is going to be steering his followers in the exact way he was steering them before, which is not taking safety precautions, not taking -- not wearing masks.

CAMEROTA: David, ironically, I don't know that it's working. You have the actual numbers this morning that in terms of the polls. At this point most Americans, I would say, know somebody who has gotten sick from coronavirus. Many Americans know somebody who has died from coronavirus.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Right.

CAMEROTA: And so you can't take that knowledge away from people, and the numbers that you're seeing this morning just out this morning, a new CNN poll, reflect that.

CHALIAN: How could it possibly be working? There is the horse race, 57 percent to 41 percent, the biggest lead we've seen for Joe Biden. And this poll was taken after that widely panned horrific debate performance from the president. And then over the weekend his behavior that I don't know how anyone can feel anything other than unsettled in this moment. Coronavirus is the issue facing every American right now unlike any other, and Joe Biden in our poll is scoring well ahead of Donald Trump in who would be able to handle coronavirus better.

[08:10:05]

But what is so astonishing here, you see right there, 59 percent to 38 percent Biden versus Trump on coronavirus. On health care 59 percent to 39 percent. Only the economy is Donald Trump really competitive on the issue set with Joe Biden. But the front and center issue is coronavirus. And by the way, the president's own diagnosis and hospitalization made that fact even more so, and that will be true through the duration of this election no matter how much he has tried to distract.

And John, when you read that tweet about herd immunity this morning and the flu, it's not that long ago that he told Bob Woodward how much worse this is than the flu. So what exactly is that comparison serving him now? We know what he thinks about coronavirus being so much worse than the flu because he said it and he is on tape saying it.

BERMAN: Look, the president says he's gone to school on coronavirus. It's clear that school is Trump University. Sanjay, I don't know if you want to weigh in very quickly on his new statement this morning about the flu and learning to live with it.

GUPTA: Well, the idea that if the coronavirus was allowed to just sort of go through the nation, we know that about 10 percent of the country if you look at these studies have likely been exposed, infected to this. The actual number is obviously a lot lower because a lot of people can't get tested. But with roughly 10 percent, we have had 210,000 people who have died. To get to this herd immunity it's 60 percent, 70 percent of the nation, and that's why people say a million and a half people, up to 2 million people may die in order to get to it.

It's a terrible strategy. It's a terrible strategy. And as David points out, the president knows how deadly this is. He's known since February 7th, and I'm sure even in the hospital there were some tough conversations. He dropped his oxygen saturations. That was very concerning, I'm sure, for the doctors there. And anytime you are a patient and you have that brush with some severe illness, it does change you in some ways.

So, again, as David said, I think he knows the truth for himself, he knows the truth for the nation, and yet what he's projecting is totally different. And it breaks my heart because people will not abide by basic public health guidelines, and they will get sick, and they'll even die as a result of that. That just breaks my heart. We can prevent so many of these deaths, and yet we're still not doing this in October.

BERMAN: Sanjay, David, Nia, thank you all very much for this.

Obviously, this comes as we are seeing an uptick in cases, we are seeing hospitalizations flatten if not increase, and this is happening at the very beginning of flu season. So how do you distinguish between the symptoms between coronavirus and the flu? How can we stay safe, notwithstanding everything the president does?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:16:36]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK. Flu season is starting and doctors have been warning us for months that the double whammy of the flu and coronavirus could make for a particularly deadly year.

This morning, coronavirus cases are rising in 22 states. They're going down in four states. They're holding steady in 24 states. Joining us now is Dr. Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for

Infectious Disease, Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota.

Great to have you here, Doctor.

President Trump --

DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: Hi, good morning.

CAMEROTA: Good morning.

President Trump just dropped a disinformation bomb on Twitter and I want to go through it because I think almost every word is wrong, but you're the expert and you'll tell us how we should feel about the flu versus coronavirus.

He says: Flu season is coming up. OK. Many people every year, sometimes over 100,000 -- he doesn't say what happens -- and despite the vaccine die from the flu. Are we going to close down the country? No, we have learned to live like it just like we have learned to life with COVID, in most populations far less lethal.

Here are the numbers that I have, Doctor, in terms of the flu. This is from the CDC website. In 2017-2018 winter season, 61,000 people died from the flu; 2018-2019 season, 34,000 people died from the flu.

So far this year, 2019-2020, 22,000 people have died from the flu.

So, it's not more deadly than coronavirus, coronavirus is.

OSTERHOLM: It's not. And even those numbers are statistical models. They are not actually number of patients reported like we're seeing with COVID-19.

This is just a distraction. We don't want to minimize flu. We want you to get your flu shot. We don't want to have to try to deal with flu during the middle of a COVID pandemic.

But make no mistake about it, COVID is in a category all unto it's own. You know, we don't see entire states having large numbers of their intensive care units overrun with flu during a given flu season, like we have seen with COVID.

And so, yeah, we -- flu is important, but COVID, again, is in a category all unto its own.

CAMEROTA: Just so I'm clear, so the president can hear it as well as our viewers, you're saying COVID-19 is far more deadly than the flu?

OSTERHOLM: It is. And, in fact, there was a period of time in April and I fear we may be going back to somewhat that same number of deaths that occurred in this country and at that point, it was the number one cause of death in this country and we had not seen situation like that emerge since 1918 when swine flu came upon us. So, this is truly a different situation and I think it's very

important also to note that as you talked about, we're starting to see the uptick in cases. There are a number of us who fear that over the next six to 12 weeks, we could see a very substantial increase in COVID-19 cases that would far surpass even the peak that we saw earlier this summer.

So, there's just no comparison here right now at all.

CAMEROTA: So, this morning, for people who are wondering, what -- how it differs, when -- when they feel a symptom, do they have the flu or do they have coronavirus which obviously would require a different kind of treatment.

So, here are the symptoms, as far as we know it: they both have fever. They both have cough. They both have sore throat. They both have body aches. They both have headaches. They both have fatigue. They both have runny nose.

But here's where COVID-19 gets different as far as we know. The shortness of breath, that feeling that so many of the victims of coronavirus describe of having an elephant on your chest.

[08:20:00]

Then, the loss of taste or smell, is that -- I want to just zero in on that for a second, Doctor --

OSTERHOLM: Yeah.

CAMEROTA: -- because is that the defining feature of COVID-19? If you lose your sense of taste and smell, is that the one where you go, oh, I have coronavirus?

OSTERHOLM: Yeah, that's the number one symptom, absolutely. But I think the other one that you mentioned, feeling like you have an elephant on your chest is also another very important one.

And so, the two of those are hallmark characteristics of coronavirus infection, and can easily be used to distinguish not only against flu, but even during this winter season. Flu only may account for 20 percent of the some of the severe respiratory illnesses we have, so it's flu and everything else that's out there. But coronavirus infection can surely be distinguished by most just in those two symptoms that you just noted.

CAMEROTA: That's really good to know.

I mean, most of us historically when we have the flu, we tough it out at home. You know, that's what we've learned how to do. It's horrible for three days. You feel like hell, but you tough it out at home.

But should we be doing something different this year and what if we have those two characteristics, the hard -- the toughness of breathing and the loss of taste and smell, should we be going to the hospital? OSTERHOLM: Definitely you want to contact your health care provider

and find out what you should be doing because as we've already been talking about, even just in the past week, oftentimes, patients are not out of the -- you might say the danger zone, for seven to ten days after the onset of symptoms. So, you want to be followed very closely to know am I getting worse and many patients don't even realize they're getting worse in terms of what their oxygen levels are and even their mental acuity.

So how well do they know what is going on? So if you have that symptom, either one, the weight on the chest or the loss of taste, you know, definitely follow up with a health care provider.

CAMEROTA: Dr. Michael Osterholm, we always feel better after talking to you. Thank you very much for helping us sort through this. Great to see you.

OSTERHOLM: Thank you. Thanks a lot. Bye.

CAMEROTA: A woman from Texas just one of the 210,000 Americans who died from coronavirus. How does her family feel about President Trump's message that this is nothing to worry about? We'll talk to her.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:26:15]

BERMAN: This morning, the death toll from coronavirus in the United States has topped 210,000. Two hundred and ten thousand Americans have been killed. Think of all the families mourning a loved one this morning.

The president is downplaying the severity of it all. He's saying don't be afraid of the disease that has taken so many lives. Moments ago, he wrote: Learn to live with it.

Joining me now is Fiana Tulip. She lost her mother to coronavirus on July 24th.

Fiana, we are so sorry for your loss.

And I want to start with your mother, Isabelle. I want this to be about you. I don't want this to be defined by things the president is saying.

So tell us about your mother.

FIANA TULIP, LOST HER MOTHER TO CORONAVIRUS IN JULY: Thank you so much for having me. It's very hard not to define, you know, what the president is telling us and define my mother's death by that because it has become so political thanks to this administration.

But, you know, my mother was so kind, she was thoughtful, she was generous and she was probably the best grandmother out there. She was everyone's mom and down from the woman who sold her a car to

the woman who owned the doggie day care that she took her dogs to, they loved her and they have so many stories about her. And so, her loss is really felt with all of us.

BERMAN: Her smile just jumps through the screen there. She looks like your sister, not your mother. I mean, so young, so vibrant. Now, she was a respiratory nurse.

How did you lose her?

TULIP: Respiratory therapist.

BERMAN: How did you -- how did you lose her?

TULIP: Yeah, as a respiratory therapist, they're putting their lives on the line every day. They are the ones saving people from coronavirus. They are the ones helping people breathe. Unfortunately, she worked in a hospital in Texas and when the spike hit the spike hit their hospital, there was an overflow of COVID patients.

She tells me a story and this is her thinking of how she caught the virus. She told me a story of a woman who was visiting her dad and she refused to wear a mask because her president didn't wear one. That's what she said when my mom asked her to put on a mask.

And after that, many patients and many health care workers got sick. My mom started feeling symptoms on a Saturday and she died just one week later on July 4th.

BERMAN: I'm so sorry. That's a quick.

TULIP: Thank you.

BERMAN: It's so sudden.

TULIP: Yeah.

BERMAN: And your mother said she thought it was because she came in contact with someone who refused to wear a mask and put it on the president?

TULIP: Yeah. Yeah. It was, you know -- the hospital had done their best to try to keep their health care workers safe and, unfortunately, there wasn't a mask mandate in Texas at the time. So, you know, patients, visitors came into the hospital and they had the option to wear the mask and that should have never been the case.

So when this woman said, you know, I don't have to wear a mask if my president doesn't wear one, my mom knew that she was in great danger.

BERMAN: So given that, given the loss of your mother now, a couple months ago, what did it feel like last night to see the president walk on to the balcony of the White House and so proudly take the mask off?

TULIP: It was the cruelest visual yet. Yesterday's tweet was the cruelest tweet yet. And I truly do wonder how many people he killed with his actions yesterday.

He's been rejecting science for the past eight months, he hasn't been putting policies in place to protect anyone and today's bombshell of a tweet, I just -- I never thought I would be, you know, as surprised as I was yesterday, but I continue to be surprised.