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New Day

Pence and Harris Clash over Coronavirus as Pandemic Worsens; Pence and Harris Dodge Key Questions in V.P. Debate. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired October 08, 2020 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: This is New Day.

915 new deaths reported from coronavirus, 50,000 new cases, 50,000 reported yesterday. That's why the pandemic was the first and absolute with the most important issue discussed at the vice presidential debate, the first such debate ever separated by a Plexiglass.

Senator Kamala Harris called the pandemic the greatest failure of any presidential administration in history. Mike Pence fought back and fought past the debate time limits. What mattered most in this debate and what did voters think about it all?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN NEW DAY: Also this morning, President Trump has returned to the Oval Office and CNN has new details about his desire to return to the campaign trail with rallies, even as he is being treated for coronavirus.

BERMAN: Let's bring in CNN White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins and CNN Political Analyst Maggie Haberman, she's a White House correspondent for The New York Times.

And the pandemic, as it should have been, was the first question at this debate last night. And Mike Pence, obviously, is the leader of the coronavirus task force, so it took on even added importance. And this is where, I think, perhaps, Senator Harris got in some of her cleanest hits. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The American people have witnessed what is the greatest failure of any presidential administration in the history of our country.

And here is the thing, on January 28th, the vice president and the president were informed about the nature of this pandemic. They were informed that it is lethal in consequence, that it is airborne, that it will affect young people and that it would be contracted because it is airborne. And they knew what was happening and they didn't tell you.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: All right. Maggie Haberman, it was interesting to hear that. That was a choice of a way to go after the pandemic and the leader of the coronavirus task force. She didn't talk about the outbreak inside the White House. She talked about the administration not leveling with the American people. How do you think it landed?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: So I think Kamala Harris' goal for the night was to not rock the boat, John. All polls show that she and Biden are well ahead. So, once you're winning, you don't want to do anything that's going to change that. I think she was trying to deliver lines and lines of attack without appearing overly aggressive, or appearing as if she was taking advantage of a situation in the White House that involves the president of the United States' health. So I think that she probably had her most effective moments in the debate at that point.

There were a couple of times, John, where she didn't go after Pence on the coronavirus, as the evening wore on. And I was somewhat surprised by it. She did not mention the president's video yesterday, where he talked about how he had discovered a clinical cure in an experimental antibody cocktail, how he described getting the virus as a blessing in disguise because he had learned of this cocktail and what he believes it could do. So there were moments where she clearly took it up to the line of what she has been saying, but she did not choose to go further than that.

CAMEROTA: We will get to that video in a second, but, Kaitlan, first, let's watch a moment where Mike Pence turned the tables.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: You continue to undermine public confidence in a vaccine, if the vaccine emerges during the Trump administration, I think is unconscionable. And, Senator, I just ask you, stop playing politics with people's lives. The reality is that we will have a vaccine, we believe, before the end of this year. And it will have the capacity to save countless American lives and your continuous undermining of confidence in a vaccine is just -- it's just unacceptable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Okay. Well, what Kamala Harris then went on to say, Kaitlan, was, I trust the scientists. I'll take the vaccine if the scientists say so. I don't trust President Trump. Your thoughts?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I thought it was interesting that she didn't bring up what the president has said about the FDA in recent days, where he has said that it's a political hit job that they've instituted this mandate where, basically, that any vaccine going through a trial has to wait two months until they give their last dose to participants to make sure there aren't any harmful side effects.

And that's something the president has been complaining about, the White House was initially holding up before approving it finally and that's not something the senator brought up during that moment with the vice president, as he was talking about how she's talked about, she didn't bring up that the president himself has claimed that the FDA is doing a political hit job on him by delaying a vaccine, in his opinion, which they say is out of safety standards. The president believes it's retribution against himself.

And so she didn't take that opportunity. Though I do think her other hits on coronavirus against the vice president had him on defense at the beginning of this debate. But she did not continuously hit him over it, like her aides were expecting her to do. So I think, actually, he had been preparing for much worse and much more sustained attacks on their coronavirus response, and we did not see that play out much longer than at the beginning of the debate.

[07:05:06]

CAMEROTA: So, Maggie, let's talk about the video. Let's talk about what's happening at the White House today. You mentioned the president spoke to this video. He called getting coronavirus a blessing from God. He credited his recovery, insofar as we know, about it, to this Regeneron monoclonal antibody cocktail. We don't know if that's the one thing that has helped him get better. It could be the steroids. But why this video, and if we can show people pictures of it? I do also want to note, and some people will take this as superficial, as a dude who wears makeup, this guy is wearing a lot of makeup right now. So it has a strange look to it, to be sure. So what should we take away from this?

HABERMAN: So, look, the president wants people to see him, you know, up and about. He wants people see him in a presidential setting. It was interesting to me that they chose to shoot this video in the Rose Garden as opposed to in the Oval Office, which he had been itching to get to Monday and Tuesday. So I think what we're supposed to take from this video is that he feels okay, but also we're supposed to take from this that he is still pushing for some kind of miracle cure for this virus, as he has been since March.

I mean, hydroxychloroquine is what he had settled on for a while now. Now, he's settling on something that's more medically-based, but it's an unproven drug, it is still in clinical trials. He was given an experimental drug and that doesn't get talked about very much and, obviously, everyone hopes the president is feeling better and gets better. But the course of medicine that he was taking was heavy duty and it's impossible to tell what was what.

This video was interesting to me for another reason, John. There had been talk about this video coming really 24 hours earlier. Initially, there was discussion about him doing some kind of live address to the nation. That was scrapped in favor of a videotape. That videotape was supposed to come out around 6:00 on Monday. It came and when, and never came out. Yesterday it came out just in time to potentially be disruptive to Mike Pence at his debate.

But I expect we will see more of this kind of thing in the coming days. In terms of how his advisers viewed it, many of them thought he went too far with what he said about a cure. CAMEROTA: I mean, we should also just point out, Kaitlan, I feel, President Trump's treatment was paid for by U.S. taxpayers. It costs to be in the hospital for four days, and to get that monoclonal antibody treatment, upwards of $100,000. And it was all paid for by taxpayers. At the same time, President Trump is trying to, you know, take away the Affordable Care Act.

And so the idea that everybody should follow my lead, I go outside maskless, you shouldn't be afraid of it, and then just take the Regeneron monoclonal antibody treatment, it's just -- it's in a different world. He's treated in a different stratosphere than other human beings.

COLLINS: Yes. I don't think that irony was lost on some people inside the White House either. But, specifically, what the president is saying, even about this antibody cocktail that he took, which John is right, we don't know if that's what had such an effect on the president, it's not accessible to people. Fewer than ten people outside of these clinical trials that Maggie is talking about have actually had this drug that the president was administered, this treatment. So it's notable that this isn't something that people can get.

But in this video, the president is talking about making it free to people. They're not even close to that yet. They haven't gotten an emergency use authorization for this. So it's just not realistic. And that's the problem, because if the president goes out and portrays this idea that if you get COVID-19, you too will be okay, it's just not going to be the same case.

And no one expects the president of the United States to get anything less than stellar treatment when it comes to his health, but to give off this idea that it's accessible to everyone and you can get the exact same treat with your own suite at Walter Reed and a fleet of doctors, it just isn't realistic. And so when he is talking about it being a cure, not just a treatment, talking about what he's received, that's just not on the level that everyone else is talking about.

And another thing I've noticed since the president has been back, he has been downplaying coronavirus and minimizing it and not talking about the people who have gotten it, who have died from it. And that's something you saw the vice president do last night and expressed sympathy for the people affected by it in a way that the president has just refused to do time and time again.

CAMEROTA: Kaitlan, Maggie, thank you both very much for all of your reporting.

President Trump is apparently back at work in the Oval Office despite the fact that he's supposed to be isolating from coronavirus.

Here to discuss the latest on the president's condition, CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, great to see you, there you are, this morning.

So, I mean, the president, we've all heard the CDC guidelines. They're strict. All Americans are supposed to be following them. If you have a coronavirus diagnosis, you're supposed to isolate, not be around anybody else for ten days.

[07:10:01]

It was only less than a week ago that President Trump went to the hospital with coronavirus and now he's back in the Oval Office.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, these guidelines exist for a reason. I mean, we understand that when someone is sick with this disease, they can be essentially shedding virus for a while. And we can't see this virus. I wish we could sometimes, as I've said before, because I think we would pay a lot more attention to it. But even if someone is feeling better, and we hope that he is, you can -- as you see on the screen, you can be shedding virus for some time.

And these guidelines are always written to be sort of as encompassing as possible, to be as safe as possible. So they say at least ten days since people first develop symptoms, at least 24 hours off of fever- reducing medicines. And one thing about the president still, we don't know what medicines he's on, because the doctors haven't been that forthright on it. But if he's still on the steroids, those can reduce the fever. So that may be artificially masking some of the symptoms that he has. So it's very concerning.

I mean, we tell people even within their own homes, isolate to one room, use your own bathroom, use your own utensils, stay away from all family members. So the idea that you're walking around the residence of the White House going into the office, people are coming in to brief you, that's concerning.

And also I'll say one more thing. Just -- when we go to the hospital, if we're going to see a COVID patient, we do put on the personal protective equipment, as was described and was shown earlier today. but it does go through some training to properly fit-test N95 masks, I know that that's something people become more familiar with, and to do it properly, to put the gear on properly and to take it off properly.

Because after you've now been around someone with COVID, you have to assume that your personal protective equipment is contaminated. You have to take it off a specific way, otherwise it defeats the purpose to some extent. So that's why you basically say, stay in isolation otherwise you're putting too many other people at risk.

BERMAN: Sanjay, as we sit here this morning, there is no cure for coronavirus, pure and simple. The president in that video called the Regeneron monoclonal antibody cocktail a cure. What do we know about it and what do we know about how much it has affected the president's recovery, insofar as we think he's recovered?

GUPTA: I've been following the story of the monoclonal antibodies almost since the start. And there's been a lot of enthusiasm around monoclonal antibodies, because the idea is simple. Someone who's gotten the infection, the types of proteins in their body that could help fight that infection are called antibodies. You can get them through a vaccine that teaches your body to make the antibodies or become infected, or you could actually receive an injection of the antibodies.

It makes a lot of sense, right? People sort of fundamentally get that and I think there was a lot of enthusiasm. These monoclonal antibodies, it is actually a combination of two different antibodies. The expectation was that it would work well, but there just isn't a lot of data right now. In fact, there's only been some 275 patients that have really been part of any sort of trial, as Kaitlan was talking about. And we haven't even seen that data yet. It's probably going to be encouraging, but it's very, very early.

So what we'll see -- it's a very expensive therapy. It takes a while to develop. It could be something that people get earlier on in their infection to try and prevent them from developing the most serious symptoms. But we don't know. What exactly are the side effects going to be? How does it work in conjunction with other medications? Does it work better for some people versus other people? For example, in the trial, the average age of people was 45 years old. So, is that who's going to be the most likely to benefit? That's why you do these trials.

And you know, even figuring out the right dosing, he got a massive dose of these antibodies, which certainly led to the fact that his blood test reveals he has antibodies now. It's not because his body is producing antibodies, it's because he got this massive dose of these synthetic antibodies. So there's a lot to learn about it. Enthusiasm, yes, but that's why you study it and do trials.

CAMEROTA: That's really interesting, Sanjay. And it would also be very important to hear how President Trump plans to make it free for everyone. It's great pie in the sky to say, I want it to be free for everyone, like it was for him, since taxpayers paid for it, but it would be great to hear how that could ever work, since, as I understand, it's liked is $100,000 a treatment.

GUPTA: Yes. I mean, So there're so many things about this. First of all, the company, Regeneron, we understand, has either already applied or is now applying for emergency use authorization, I believe, just over the last day or so, again, with very limited data. So this is surprising. It's an emergency use authorization, not an approval. But still -- and then, yes, the cost, these are very expensive treatments.

When you make antibodies in response to a vaccine, the expectation is that those antibodies are going to last a while.

[07:15:05]

We still don't know. We're still learning about this. But with the monoclonal antibody injection, how long does it actually offer protection? Do people have to get several of these, monthly, every two months, three months? I don't think that they know the answer yet. So, not only, Alisyn, is it expensive, but it may be a recurring expense for people if they keep doing this sort of thing.

CAMEROTA: So helpful, Sanjay, as always. Thank you very much. GUPTA: You got it.

CAMEROTA: The one and only V.P, debate had its own fireworks despite strict new rules. So what was it like for the moderator? Well, Susan Page of USA Today is going to be here live and she's going to tell us, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN PAGE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, USA TODAY: We want a debate that is lively, but Americans also deserve a discussion that is civil.

PENCE: The American people deserve to know --

PAGE: I did not --

PENCE: Susan, the American deserve to know Joe Biden --

PAGE: I did not create the rules for tonight.

[07:20:00]

Your campaigns agreed to the rules for tonight's debate with the Commission on Presidential Debates. I'm here to enforce them, which involves moving from one topic to another, giving roughly equal time to both of you, which is what I'm trying very hard to do.

PENCE: Go right ahead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, that was Susan Page, the moderator at last night's debate, trying to enforce the rules agreed upon by both campaigns. And Susan Page joins me now, USA Today's Washington Bureau Chief. Susan, thanks so much for being with us.

So how was your night?

PAGE: Well, John, you are accustomed to speaking to millions of people on T.V. I'm just a print reporter. This is a new experience for me. It was quite the night and quite the honor to participate in that debate.

BERMAN: The reviews this morning, you asked terrific questions, questions that were often, maybe perhaps more often than not, completely avoided and evaded. Let me play just one example here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAGE: If Roe v. Wade is overturned, what would you want Indiana to do? Would you want your home state to ban all abortions? You have two minutes, uninterrupted.

PENCE: Well, thank you for the question, but I'll use a little bit of my time to respond to that very important issue before. The American people deserve to know Qasem Soleimani, the Iranian general, was responsible for the death of hundreds of American service members.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, to be clear, Qasem Soleimani has nothing to do with Indiana abortion laws at all. And that was just one example when your questions weren't answered. So what did that feel like in the moment?

PAGE: Well, you know, this was -- what I usually do are interviews or news conferences. This was a different kind of form. In those cases, I think would have been pretty aggressive at trying to follow up to press him on the question I asked. In this case, I was really there just to help voters get some illumination about these candidates. And when they answered the questions I asked, I thought that was illuminating. And when they refused to answer the questions I asked, that was also illuminating.

BERMAN: How is it illuminating when they refuse to answer? Because that question, it's an important one. Voters deserve to know what will happen in the states if Roe is overturned or modified by the Supreme Court.

PAGE: You're absolutely right. And I think is an even better example is when I asked if they had ever discussed with Joe Biden and Donald Trump the issue of presidential disability, since one of these candidates will be the vice president to the oldest president in American history. And neither of them would address that question, which says to me that this is an issue that ought to be discussed, particularly since the president has been diagnosed with COVID-19, and one that neither campaign was willing to talk about. I think that is illuminating.

BERMAN: So because it was a debate, it's on the candidates, you think, to follow up if they choose to?

PAGE: I think it's hard -- I think the goal of the moderator is to try -- in my view -- ask a narrow question in the hope of getting an answer. That was often less successful than I hoped and then let the candidates take it over and debate among themselves. It is a debate among them that I was trying to facilitate.

I know some people have criticized me for that, and, clear enough, different approaches, I guess. But that was the approach I took.

BERMAN: How surprised were you by the level of non-answers at some point?

PAGE: I was surprised. I thought if I asked a question about abortion, the response would be something about abortion, but that was not the case.

BERMAN: Now, the Chris Wallace experience, which is either the name of a bad band or what happened in the first presidential debate, what lessons did you take away from watching that? PAGE: It made me a little more aggressive at the beginning. You know, I actually spoke longer than I ordinarily would have at the introduction, laying out exactly what the rules were that the two campaigns had agreed to. And it made me -- there was one point.

Actually, I showed it at the beginning, where I ended up raising my hands saying, I didn't make these rules, I'm just trying to enforce them. I was more prepared to do that than I might have been if I hadn't seen Chris' debate.

BERMAN: Now, it turns out that they spoke roughly at equal time depending on how you measure it, but it's also true, everyone who watched just notices, that the vice president ran over his allotted time for individual questions almost every time.

Again, was there any way to stop him there?

PAGE: Well, you know, it was interesting, just before there were two clocks that show the accumulated time for each candidate so I could keep an eye on that. And in the first 15 minutes or so, Mike Pence spoke much more. He was really racking up more minutes than Kamala Harris. And, again, in that case, I tried to adjust things to make sure that she had equal time. And that required a little more activity on my part than I had anticipated taking.

BERMAN: Next time you do this, anything you wish you had done differently, anything you learned from this experience, which is unique?

[07:25:04]

And there's almost, by the way, no way to win being a moderator of a debate, and you're not there to win, but what lessons do you take away?

PAGE: I disagree. I feel like it was a huge, valuable experience. Criticism, grace, whatever comes, I've learned a lot in doing it. And -- but I'll tell you what I tried to do. My number one goal, it's about the voters, it's not about me. It wasn't even really about the campaigns. It was, what do voters need to see or hear to help them make their big decision in this coming week.

BERMAN: Susan Page, thank you for your work, thanks for getting up this morning. Please, be well, be safe going forward. Look, which isn't a small thing, either, given what we've learned about perhaps the health conditions in some of the past debates. So we appreciate everything you've done. Thank you.

PAGE: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: With the country's top military leaders under quarantine following a White House event, were gold star families put at risk?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:30:00]