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New Day

13 Charged in Domestic Terror Plot to Kidnap Gov. Gretchen Whitmer (D-MI); 56,000 New Cases Reported, 28 States Reporting Spikes. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired October 09, 2020 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN NEW DAY: Of the alleged domestic terror plot to kidnap the Democratic governor of Michigan and spark another civil war.

[07:00:07]

13 people connected to extremist and far-right groups have been charged. We have new information about the actions they were in the middle of to pull off this plan.

President Trump reacted overnight. He tried to claim that he does not tolerate any, quote, extreme violence. But why then has extremism increased on his watch?

President Trump also, again, attacked Governor Gretchen Whitmer, the victim of the alleged plot. If you remember in April, the president called on his Twitter followers to, quote, liberate Michigan, after Whitmer imposed coronavirus restrictions. That tweet coincided with armed protesters taking to the state capitol in Lansing. I mean, just look at how armed to the teeth those folks were. We have more pictures to show you.

Governor Whitmer also told CNN that she asked the White House to tamp down its inflammatory rhetoric after she started receiving threats. But Attorney General Bill Barr claimed to Congress that he had not heard anything about that.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: This development in Michigan comes during a dangerous increase in coronavirus cases across the country. 56,000 new cases confirmed overnight, 56,000. Look at that graph. That's the highest daily total in nearly two months.

This morning, nine states are reporting record hospitalizations. Look at that map. Nearly 1,000 new deaths reported overnight, as well.

In the midst of this, the president's doctor claims, although he's not produced any evidence, that the president's recovery is going well. He also says, without explaining why he believes so, that the president can return to public events as soon as tomorrow.

During a telephone interview, the president said he hopes to hold a rally in Florida tomorrow and one in Pennsylvania also this weekend. In that same interview, the president had to stop twice, clear his throat, sounded like he was coughing. The president will not say if he has been tested since his diagnosis or received a negative test at all. More on that in just a moment.

First, though, this alleged domestic terror plot to kidnap a sitting U.S. governor. Our Sara Sidner live in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Sara, that is quite a headline.

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's a stunning development when you consider it, authorities saying that they have thwarted this domestic terror plot that involved targeting members of law enforcement for violence, storming the capitol in Lansing, even kidnapping legislators. But the main focus was to try to kidnap Governor Gretchen Whitmer. There was even talk of killing her, according to the FBI. But the governor is standing strong and defiant.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: 13 men stand accused of a domestic terrorist plot to overthrow state governments. Some of the suspects CNN found online, ranting against the government. One saying --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By you participating in the government, you know, you are participating in slavery, dude.

SIDNER: The FBI said Michigan was to be ground zero.

ANDREW BIRGE, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN: Through confidential sources, undercover agents and clandestine recordings, law enforcement learned particular individuals were planning to kidnap the governor.

SIDNER: Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer has drawn angry reactions from armed groups opposed to her restriction to slow the spread of the coronavirus. And investigators say those measures may be why the men targeted Whitmer, wanting to try her for treason.

According to the complaint, the suspects did surveillance on her vacation home and talked of blowing up a bridge to divert police if they attack that location. The complaint also indicates suspect Adam Fox was leading the charge and was recorded saying, grab the f'ing governor, just grab the B, because at that point, we do that, dude, it's over.

BIRGE: The complaint further alleges that Fox purchased a taser for use in the kidnapping and that the group successfully detonated an improvised explosive device wrapped with shrapnel to test its anti- personnel capabilities.

SIDNER: The federal government charged six men with conspiracy to kidnap Whitmer. The state charged seven others with firearm and terror charges.

GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): I knew this job would be hard. But I'll be honest, I never could have imagined anything like this.

SIDNER: But in April, national security officials warned that extremist groups are exploiting the coronavirus pandemic to incite violence and bolster racist and anti-government narratives. In this case, authorities said men associated with an anti-government group called the Wolverine Watchmen were involved in the alleged kidnap plot. A law enforcement source also telling CNN, authorities believe some of the suspects support the extremist Boogaloo Movement.

JONATHAN GREENBLATT, CEO, ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE: The Boogaloo Movement is a loosely affiliated network of individuals and groups that actively believe in the prospect and want to expedite violent unrest in the streets, what we might describe as civil war.

[07:05:14]

FRANK MEEINK, FORMER NEO-NAZI: Right now, we are in for the fight of our life. It's on.

SIDNER: Frank Meeink, a former neo-Nazi who went to prison in the '90s for kidnapping a member of a leftist group, says these kind of plots are being hatched now more than ever. I spoke with him days before the kidnap plot was known to the public.

What's the scenario in this election that would create what you're calling the potential of a race war?

MEEINK: I'm telling you, this is going to happen. States like Michigan, states like Wisconsin, the northern states that have some wilderness area, there have been militias from other states training up there. They are waiting and hoping that something does go wrong, because they want to hold up in them hills and they want to say, we don't want the federal government up here no more, we don't want to let black people or anybody else -- this is going to be our homeland.

SIDNER: He says President Trump's rhetoric has emboldened extremists. Governor Whitmer said the same, mentioning the president's words to a far-right group during the debate.

WHITMER: Stand back and stand by. Hate groups heard the president's words not as a rebuke but as a rallying cry, as a call to action.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: So the White House has responded to Whitmer's words saying in part that Governor Whitmer is the one that is sowing division by making these outlandish allegations and then went on to say that America stands united against hate and in support of our federal law enforcement, who stop this plot.

We should also mention that here in Grand Rapids, the six men facing federal charges were in court on Thursday and they asked for a court- appointed attorney.

CAMEROTA: Sara, your reporting is so revealing. I mean, the idea that you were already talking to that former neo-Nazi and he has seen it, he's predicting what's about to happen and then it's happening. Thank you, Sara, so much for all of that reporting. Joining us now is CNN Political Correspondent Abby Phillip and CNN Contributor Miles Taylor. He served as chief of staff at the Department of Homeland Security under the Trump administration. He has since endorsed Joe Biden.

Miles, I want to start with you. You know, the president and the press secretary often say, we're against violent extremism. But in your experience, Miles, the description that Sara just gave us of all of the things that this group was doing, alleged to have been doing, it sounds like the same things when we report ISIS or Al Qaeda, the practicing the explosives, the doing combat drills, all of that stuff. In your experience, did you see more of that activity or was it growing during your time during the Trump administration?

MILES TAYLOR, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, Alisyn, it's a great question. And I think that reporting that we just heard this morning is chilling. It raises two red flags in my view. One, clearly, the domestic terrorism threat is on the rise. The Department of Homeland Security just released the first ever homeland threat assessment, which said that domestic terrorist groups are really starting to surge in this country. It's a big concern.

But this shouldn't be news to us, Alisyn. This is something that for years we flagged for the White House. But the White House was really disinterested. In fact, I would go as far as to say that the White House buried its head in the sand, when, for the first few years of this administration, we flagged the severity of the threat. And they were worried and the president was worried that by talking about this issue, we would alienate people that he saw as his supporters. So that's red flag number one, obviously.

Red flag number two, and as you all have covered this morning, the president's rhetoric is being hijacked by these groups and is being weaponized by these groups to justify their activity. We, of course, have seen him frequently talk about fellow public officials as traitors and as potentially treasonous. And then, of course, the president actively tweeted that supporters should help liberate Michigan from his -- liberate Michigan from, you know, this governor. So what you're seeing is the president arming these volatile groups with justification for violence.

And I would go even further, Alisyn, and say that the president's tweets are helping to fuel terror. And I can't believe we have to say that about the commander in chief, but, really, his tweets are helping to fuel terror. And as evidence to buttress that, I spoke to a senior FBI official this week who indicated that they believe their case loads are growing, in large part, because of the president's rhetoric and the volatile rhetoric in our political process right now.

So that's an alarming data point and certainly this type of case wouldn't have happened, in my view, if we hadn't seen this rhetoric over the past few years.

BERMAN: Miles, talk to me more about what you just said there, that you spoke to someone who's still on the inside, a senior FBI official, who says that things are bad and getting worse. [07:10:03]

And talk more about it given that we're, what, 26 days, 25 days now before an election? What are you hearing about the concerns for the next two, three weeks?

TAYLOR: That's a great question, John. And I want to jump back to what Alisyn said about ISIS. I remember this all too well. I started off as a counterterrorism analyst post-9/11. And, certainly, the rise of ISIS from 2015 onward was one of the bigger concerns we have seen in the social media age of terrorism spreading virally.

Now, we're seeing very similar things happening here in the United States where domestic terrorism seems to be starting to spread virally in the way that we saw that happen overseas with ISIS.

Now, how does that impact us here at home? Well, this FBI official that I spoke to this week indicated that, right now, in the lead up to the election, they are having to stand up robust task forces to track the growing case loads in this space and they are concerned about the post-election period, and they are concerned that if the president doesn't check his words, that they may be put in a very difficult position of having to take down more cases like I we just saw in Michigan.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh, Abby. I wish we could do an entire segment on the good police work, the outstanding police work that brought this down. And this is what obviously the FBI has been doing for years, quietly doing these investigations, infiltrating these groups. They do it quietly despite the fact that the morale is down and all of that stuff in this, you know, very hot environment that we're having, but they did it. And they, you know, broke up what was this impending, it sounds like, alleged attack. They were planning it. They were doing things this Wednesday. They were planning to -- they were scouting bridges to plant explosives under.

And, you know, Abby, I mean, the president often says that he, you know, stands against extremism. But they hear a dog whistle. It's impossible to know what the president really means, because he says so many different things at all times. But they hear a dog whistle and they've said as much.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And, you know, the president says that he condemns, you know, all kinds of violence and then he proceeds to say, but it's really the far-left that is responsible for all of the problems that we're seeing and it's not on the right. He often says things like that. And I think that that really gives away the game here.

The president is not fully aware of what is really going on, what his own FBI says is going on, which is that these extremist groups -- and I think that we should really start to take them out of this sort of left/right paradigm, but these extremist groups are growing in strength. They are feeding off of his rhetoric on issues like the coronavirus and on issues like the election, and they need to be dealt with in a serious manner, and not viewed as some kind of -- part of some kind of political battle that he is waging against his opponents.

For President Trump, this is always about who supports him and who doesn't. It is a problem that the president believes that he can't full-throatedly condemn certain groups of people because they might support him. That in and of itself is an indication that he is in the wrong place on this issue, and it needs to be taken out of politics, because as you can see from what happened in Michigan, this is a life- or-death situation.

It's not just about Gretchen Whitmer individually, it's also about the people in the Michigan -- you know, state capitol, the people who live in that state who might have been put in danger by these kinds of threats. And, clearly, President Trump doesn't take it seriously, because he wants to make the case against Antifa and against the left and doesn't want to deal with a serious domestic terror problem that is growing in this country.

BERMAN: I want to turn completely now to other developments taking place in Washington, namely, some of the words and actions the president has taken over the last 24 hours. He pulled out of the presidential debate that was scheduled for next week.

And then now he's trying to get back in to a debate. The Biden team has since rescheduled and is doing something else. He pulled out of stimulus talks. He's trying to get back in. He's saying that he's cleared to go speak in public to rallies tomorrow night, but he hasn't received a negative test yet for coronavirus.

So I'm not a doctor, you know, I am a political reporter. Let me play you what one doctor told our Jake Tapper, Dr. Rick Bright, who had been a government doctor until last week, who had been a whistleblower about the administration's pandemic response. This is how he assesses things.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. RICK BRIGHT, FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE BIOMEDICAL ADVANCED RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY: You know, what we're missing in this whole situation is transparency about really how sick the president is. We don't really have the truth about when he was infected, what stage of infection he's in.

[07:15:02]

I don't think we know all of the various treatments he was given and what combination and what dosage.

It's very dangerous. He's in charge of a lot of things and makes a lot of important decisions for our country and for the world, actually. If he's not in the right sound mind to make those decisions rationally, then he can be very reckless for our country and for the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right. So, Miles, as I said, I'm not a doctor, but I have been a political reporter for years, and the decisions and the things the president has done yesterday and today are just politically bizarre. They're just bizarre and counterproductive and you would think politically destructive. Again, you still talk to people on the inside. What are you hearing about what's going on? What are you hearing about this bizarre debate strategy?

TAYLOR: John, there are people in the White House to tell me they feel like the president is absolutely flailing. And I hate to go too far, but, I mean, I'm quoting people around him who said they feel like he's got roid rage, because it's believed he was on steroids for a while to beat back the virus. And he's, in their eyes, few other ways to explain this sort of erratic behavior the president is undertaking.

Now, I think what we're seeing, especially, with the debates, is that the president is under the surface, if you can call it this, he's embarrassed. His administration's failure to put the coronavirus pandemic back in the box is the reason that the Commission on Presidential Debates had to propose -- and very smartly, I would say, had to propose a virtual head-to-head debate format. In fact, more specifically, the president's failure to directly protect his own people at the center of government is the reason this decision had to be made.

I mean, think about it right now, John. The Joint Chiefs of the United States of America are quarantined because of this president's failure to protect his own people in government. And I think history will record this as a pivotal moment when a storied Democratic tradition couldn't be continued per usual because of that failure of the administration to address the challenge.

You know, when we saw the president at Walter Reed, of course, do his victory lap the other day with supporters, the Secret Service agents in the car, I mean, that was a stunning demonstration of his disregard for the security and safety of his own people. In fact, if I had been secretary of Homeland Security, I would have called the president of the United States after that episode and said, you cannot do this to my people, I will not accept this happening to my workforce, because, of course, the Secret Service reports to the secretary of Homeland Security.

Those types of things should be happening and the people around him, John, should be holding him accountable. I'm concerned that they're not.

BERMAN: No evidence that they are. That's for sure. Miles Taylor, Abby Phillip, thank you both for being with us this morning.

There are signs, new signs overnight that the pandemic is getting worse. Nine states are now reporting a record number of hospitalizations. That's next.

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[07:20:00]

BERMAN: So this morning, we have new signs that point to a worsening coronavirus pandemic in the United States. Another 56,000 new cases reported, that's the highest in nearly two months. Nine states reporting record high hospitalizations, nearly a thousand new deaths reported.

So President Trump says he's recovered from the virus and he wants to be out on the campaign trail tomorrow. He wants to do a rally in Florida tomorrow. But during a telephone interview overnight, he had to stop, twice. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I mean, the last time I had a big problem, they oscillated my mics when I had the one debate, with three debates with Hillary. And I think the first debate, they -- excuse me. On the first debate, they oscillated the mic. well, I want them to vote, but I will say this. Absentee is okay. Because absentee ballots -- excuse me -- absentee ballots are fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Look, there's nothing wrong when you're sick to be coughing, you know, when you're recovering from a serious sickness. That's just what happens here. But it does point to the fact that maybe he's not completely recovered yet, which, again, would be totally natural.

Joining us now, Dr. Richard Besser, former acting Director of the CDC, president and CEO of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. Rich, thanks so much for being with us this morning.

The president says that he's going back to the campaign trail tomorrow night and his doctor says it's okay for him to do it. Yet he doesn't have a negative test yet and they won't tell us whether or not how he's being tested. So how can they know if it's safe for him to be back on the campaign trail in 24 hours?

DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, CDC: Yes. John, when Rick Bright was talking before, one of the things he talked about was transparency and the critical role of transparency and trust. If you look at the CDC guidelines in terms of when someone can leave isolation, ten days after first symptoms, no fever, but off all medications that could reduce fever.

So that includes things like acetaminophen or ibuprofen, but also things like steroids, and symptoms improving. So your symptoms don't have to have gone away but they need to be improving. And then in some circumstances, your doctor will request that you have a test. But not all people need a test before they leave isolation.

CAMEROTA: Okay. I mean, so what would you say, Dr. Besser? I mean, should the president go back on the campaign trail this weekend?

BESSER: Well, you know, I'm a real believer in transparency. And so, you know, I would like to know when symptoms first started, when he last had a positive test. I would like to know that he's not on any medications, like steroids, that could be reducing fever. And then I would like to know what kind of precautions would be taken on the road.

You know, he interacts with a lot of people in settings where those people don't have a choice but to be there. When you think about the White House, it's a complex building and there are a lot of people, military personnel, Secret Service, White House staff, cooks and cleaners and maintenance staff, who don't have a choice but to be there.

[07:25:03]

A large percentage of the staff who keep the White House going are people of color, and we've talked before about the higher rate of disease, the higher rate of severe disease among people of color. And these are civil servants who are doing their jobs and we want to make sure they have the protections they need when they go to work.

BERMAN: Rich, there are some statistics that have been alarming me for several days now, which is that the hospitalization rate in the country, which had been dropping, stopped dropping and has now started to bend upwards again. And this map, you're looking at nine states which are now seeing record hospitalizations. The number of daily cases increased to 56,000. 56,000 new cases reported overnight. These are bad signs. This is a bad direction to be going in, Rich. What do you see?

BESSER: Yes. This is really something we need to pay attention to. Over the summer, we saw case numbers, but a lot of case numbers that are with young people and young people will do better than older people, the fact that hospitalizations are going up in many places. I'm in the northeast and the northeast has done relatively well, but the numbers are creeping up.

And so for each of these, you have to rely on public health and support public health to investigate it, how much is due to a change of the weather and more indoor activity, how much is due to children going back to school. There were outbreaks in a number of states and increased spread due to religious activities among Jewish communities. You have to look at all of these factors if you want to take the right approach.

And what you're going to see and you are seeing in a number of northeast states is some of the rollback of restrictions is being put on hold and some restrictions are likely to be put in place, and that's a good thing. You want to see public health reacting to what's going on. And to do that, you need to support them to do the testing, to do the investigation. It requires total transparency.

So that when you're saying to people, okay, we're no longer going to allow indoor dining or no longer going to allow people to congregate in parks, they'll understand why that's taking place and they'll support it. You'll be much more successful when your political leaders are on the same page and say, listen to public health.

BERMAN: Dr. Richard Besser, always a pleasure to have you, great to see you. Thanks so much for being with us. And Dr. Besser will join Anderson Cooper, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, and four other former CDC directors for a new CNN global town hall. Watch Coronavirus, Facts and Fears, tomorrow night at 9:00 P.M. on CNN.

CAMEROTA: We want to take some time now to remember some of the nearly 213,000 Americans lost to coronavirus.

Sharon Bascom was a kindergarten teacher in Brooklyn, who especially loved teaching math and seeing the, quote, light bulb go off, as kids solved their problem. Her union leader said she had a fine understanding for problematic kids who she treated calmly and with respect. She was 61 years old.

The family of 72-year-old Steve Forester remembers him as a caregiver at heart, looking after his elderly mother, working with developmentally disabled adults and volunteering as a meals on wheels driver in his hometown of McKenzie, Tennessee. He's survived by his mother, three brothers and a large extended family.

74-year-old Supee Pojjananuvat was an O.R. nurse at Montefiore Hospital in New Rochelle, New York. The state's Nurses Association says she emigrated from Thailand to the U.S. in the 1970s. Coworkers remember her as hard-working and generous.

We'll be right back.

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[07:30:00]