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Thirteen Charged in Domestic Terror Plot to Kidnap Michigan Governor Whitmer; White House Signals Support for Bigger Stimulus After Trump Disrupts Talks. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired October 09, 2020 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Thirteen people now charged with trying to kidnap Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer as part of an alleged domestic terrorism plot. The FBI accuses them of planning to overthrow multiple state governments and of potentially targeting law enforcement as well. Governor Whitmer says President Trump is complicit. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): Hate groups heard the president's words not as a rebuke, but as a rallying cry. When our leaders meet with, encourage or fraternize with domestic terrorist, they legitimize their actions. And they are complicit. When they stoke and contribute to hate speech, they are complicit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Joining us now is Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell of Michigan. Congresswoman, good morning.

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): Morning, Alisyn, it's good to be with you.

CAMEROTA: It's good to have you. What an alarming story out of Michigan. Have you had the chance to talk to Governor Whitmer in the past 24 hours?

DINGELL: We've texted, but you know, the governor and I have been friends for years. I would like to say that yesterday surprised me. It disturbed me, and I hope it woke up everybody in Michigan. But governor and I have had regular conversations for the past six months about the increase in hatred and targeted activities.

And honestly, I, myself, know what it's like to be the target of some of this hate, and you don't understand what it is like until you are the person that is in the middle of all of this. I don't think anybody thought that there would be anything quite as dramatic as a kidnapping effort, as violent and as planned out as it was. But she and I have had more than one discussion. You know, I texted her at one point because she is my friend, when some things were happening. And when I defended her after the state capitol, another -- someone, one of her colleagues from another network did a rant and actually, that was worse -- the response to that -- to me, after that rant was worse than anything I had yet experienced. Words have consequences. I hope that this got a lot of people's attention, and we can all take a deep breath and really think about how fear and division is dividing this country and stop being pitted against each other.

[07:35:00]

CAMEROTA: And so just to be clear, congresswoman, you're saying that both you and Governor Whitmer have seen what, an increase in death threats?

DINGELL: Well, yes, but so have other people who aren't afraid to speak up and to speak out. And if you are the target of certain rants or certain tweets, it's a -- I have not had a kidnapping threat, let me be really clear on that. But I have had experience with kinds of groups.

And you -- it -- we ought to stop. We all have to stop. We have to take deep breaths. This isn't who we are as Americans. And this kind of hatred, the kind of venom that comes -- I can't wait to read my Facebook page after I do this, this morning, it's just unacceptable. And it's not who we are, Alisyn. It's time to take a deep breath. Stand up against it.

CAMEROTA: Is it your experience, congresswoman, that it's gotten worse over the past few years?

DINGELL: Decidedly. And my own personal experience, and I'm very grateful, I want to say this to you, I am. We all are very lucky. Law enforcement has been incredible. I probably haven't taken it as seriously as I should some days, because there are a lot of people who just want to get a lot of anger off their hearts and souls, too. But I'm very blessed with the capitol policing and I'm very blessed with local law enforcement that really do -- and we have taskforces here in Michigan that do an absolutely incredible job in trying to keep us safe.

CAMEROTA: Look, I guess what I'm getting at is, is it getting worse in Michigan? You know, our --

DINGELL: Yes --

CAMEROTA: It is? And so what form is that taking? What's going to happen in Michigan in the next few weeks before the election?

DINGELL: Well, I'm hoping that everybody is going to take a deep breath and stand up against it. I hope people are going to -- you know, when something like this happens, you also learn the number of people that care and support you. And, you know, maybe I'm going to go back to when the president or his most famous tweet against me though far from his only tweet last December. I said to people let's take a deep breath here.

You know, we ought to look at what we're doing to each other, and I think what happened to the governor, even the Republicans in the state legislature, who have been reluctant to ban assault weapons in the capitol have stood up and said, this isn't OK. So, let's talk about it. Let's not be blind to what's happening. And it's all of our responsibilities. It's not a Democratic or a Republican issue.

It is an American issue. And we need to denounce violence on the far- right and the far-left. So, let me be clear about that. But what is happening is not OK in this country. Hatred is not OK.

CAMEROTA: Gosh, I'm really sorry that you've been experiencing it as well. I know how frightening --

DINGELL: Well, I haven't had a kidnap threat -- well, I shouldn't say that --

CAMEROTA: OK, well --

DINGELL: I'm afraid to say that because I don't want to give people ideas either --

CAMEROTA: Right! I mean, that's the thing. Even talking about it, you know, gets -- produces an --

DINGELL: It does!

CAMEROTA: Anxiety. I understand. And if your bar is that high at this point, well, that we haven't had a kidnapping threat, that's too high! I mean, I hear you, and I think that, you know, you always -- you always approach these things from such a sort of magnanimous, level- headed way of just trying to bring down the rhetoric. You know, I mean, Governor Whitmer lays it at the feet of President Trump because she says that his rhetoric is ginning this up.

DINGELL: I think the rhetoric of a lot of people are ginning this up. And I don't think that anybody can afford to turn a blind eye. All of us have a responsibility. You know, stoking -- name-calling. Why do we have to name-call? It -- I mean, that's like we were children back in grade school. We're not, we're leaders, we're adults. And we're really talking about this country and the fundamental pillars of protecting our democracy.

CAMEROTA: Yes --

DINGELL: So we all have a responsibility. There may be some that contribute more, although that -- but all of us. We can't just blame it on one person or another. We all have to take some responsibility here for standing up against it.

CAMEROTA: Congresswoman, I'm running out of time, but I don't want to let you go before I ask you about the stimulus for all -- you know, the millions of Americans who are out of work right now. They need help, they need economic relief. Is anything going to happen in Congress before the election? DINGELL: So, we had a quick leadership meeting at the end of the day

yesterday. Yesterday morning, I said I'm done. This is never going to happen. I've been telling people for six months. We're going to get something, we have to get something, and then we got mixed signals from the White House again. There's one person that can determine whether we're going to get an economic stimulus package.

[07:40:00]

We all reaffirmed with Nancy, she should stay at the table, she should try to get this done. We've got too many people that need help. The president of the United States needs to send one clear signal. I want a package. Tell Mitch McConnell, he wants a package.

Tell his Republican followers, he wants a package, and we can get a package. Democrats passed a package almost five months ago. We passed one two weeks ago. We know people need it. The president of the United States is the person that can determine whether we get this done or not.

CAMEROTA: Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, always great to talk to you, take care of yourself. Thank you very much --

DINGELL: Thank you --

CAMEROTA: For being on NEW DAY as always --

DINGELL: Good to be with you.

CAMEROTA: Remember all of those Republicans who would not dare criticize President Trump? Well, it's possible that's beginning to change. The growing crafts next in our reality check.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:45:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, it was a pretty simple question. Are you proud of your support for President Trump? The answer, though, for many Republicans, not so simple at all. John Avlon with a reality check.

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: The fever may be starting to break. Badly trailing in the polls and wounded by self-sabotage, there are signs that some Republicans are starting to back away from Donald Trump. And the unlikely canary in the coal mine was Arizona Senator Martha McSally.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you proud of your support for President Trump?

SEN. MARTHA MCSALLY (R-AZ): Well, I am proud that I'm fighting for Arizonians.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you proud of your support for President Trump? MCSALLY: I'm proud to be fighting for Arizona every single day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: McSally's losing by 10 points to Mark Kelly. Turns out Trump's a liability in Arizona with his repeated insults to Hispanics and the state's favorite son, John McCain. Sure, the base loves Trump. But get this, independents make up 32 percent of registered voters in Arizona, and Trump has just a 37 percent approval among independents nationwide.

This isn't just an Arizona problem. In Texas, polls show a surprisingly tight race between Trump and Biden. And perhaps not coincidentally, GOP Senator John Cornyn is now speaking out about the confusion the president created with his chaotic COVID response.

And there are signs of a Donald drag all over the map. Take a look at the recent polls from six key swing states, and that's carrying over to key Senate races. In Iowa, a state that voted for Trump by almost 10 points, Senator Joni Ernst is down 5 points.

In Colorado, Republican Cory Gardner has been trailing former Governor John Hickenlooper, apparently running his pro-Trump ads in every state but his own. The Cook political report shows close races in Georgia, Maine, Montana, North Carolina and then there's Lindsey Graham, neck- and-neck against Jaime Harrison in South Carolina. Here's the deal. Donald Trump is a drag on the ticket.

He's been so focused on projecting strength to the base that it's obscured the fact that he's weak with the general electorate. Trump is the only president in the history of Gallup never to be above 50 percent approval. And remember the midterms? The GOP got decimated by a blue tsunami, losing 40 seats in the house.

Now, Clinton-Obama bounced back from brutal midterms to easily win re- election, but that's looking like a long shot for Trump. Republicans have shrugged off scandal after scandal and ignored warnings from people who have worked in this White House, and may have been afraid to back Trump unless they lose a primary due to an angry tweet or face the wrath of right-wing media.

But now, they're facing the full electorate and it's a very different picture. Look, anything can happen. It is 2020 after all. But as he threatens Democratic norms and insists on alternate realities, more Republicans may awaken from their hyper partisan stupor, facing defeat, they might realize their first impressions of Trump were right before they rationalized it all away for proximity to power at the expense of their principles. As Lindsey Graham tweeted in 2016, "if we nominate Trump, we will get destroyed and we will deserve it." And that's your reality check.

BERMAN: All right, John, certainly is. It has been two and a half years since the Parkland, Florida, school massacre. How has the country changed and what should we take away during this year of crisis? The father of one of the victims joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:50:00]

CAMEROTA: It was Valentine's Day 2018 when 17 students and teachers were gunned down at Marjory Stoneman Douglass High School in Parkland, Florida. One of those students was Jaime Guttenberg, the only daughter of Fred Guttenberg who even in his desperate grief has tried to find meaning from this tragedy. Thanks to what he says countless acts of generosity and support. His new book is called "Find the Helpers: What 9/11 and Parkland Taught Me About Recovery, Purpose and Hope".

And Fred Guttenberg joins me now from Florida. Fred, it's always great to see you, we always appreciate talking to you and we've -- look, we've followed your journey through the desperate grief for the past two and a half years, and the idea that you have written a book and come out at least this far on the other side is so remarkable, and it gives so many people strength. And so, when you say "what Parkland taught me", what is that?

FRED GUTTENBERG, LOST DAUGHTER IN PARKLAND SHOOTING: You know, and I'm glad you asked that. What it taught me is across this country, how amazing people are. We are living in this completely bizarre, surreal moment where, you know, I can't ignore what's going on. There is a group that is destructive, that is dangerous and that is trying to tear us apart, but that's not who is across the country.

And across the country, what I've met are amazing people, both in communities or running for office or in media or in other walks of life who are amazing, who want to do great things, who want this country to fulfill its promise and who believe in this country's democracy, and who are willing to do what they need to, to bring us back to a point of civility and decency. And my book is about the hope that they give me.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh, Fred, I mean, it just says so much about you that even in the darkest days, that you can see the goodness in other people. I just want to read a portion of your book.

GUTTENBERG: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: You say -- you say, it's true what they say, "grief is love with no place to go. When you lose someone or something, you have all these feelings that no longer have a destination. The feelings just seep out of you like air in a drafty house. To get by, you have to find people to help you, you have to find your helpers.

[07:55:00]

They will be the fuel to keep you going, the spark to get you started again." So who are those, Fred, who are the helpers?

GUTTENBERG: Well, you know, listen, and I'm glad you asked that question because in this time of COVID, I think this is important for everybody. And for me, it is those who are closest to me. It's the family and friends who were part of my life before February 14th, but this amazing community of people across the country who came into my life after. It's those who are fighting for gun safety because they want to save you.

They want to save your children, those you love. But let's face it, one of them and the person who gave me the most meaningful, helpful advice that has carried me forward is the person who I expect will be the next president of the United States, and that's Joe Biden.

CAMEROTA: What did he say, Fred? What did he say to you? What was that message?

GUTTENBERG: You know, he reached out to me 10 days or so after Jaime was killed, and he wanted to know about me, about my family, and he wanted to know what my plan was. And I really didn't have a plan other than to say to him, I want to break that f-ing gun lobby.

And from there, he started talking to me about mission and purpose and how that got him through grief. He also spoke to me about how families need to be aware of the fact that we all grieve differently. And he wanted me to understand how important it is to be aware of that, and to plan for it so that we can go forward together, grieving differently, but supporting one another.

He got to such deep places with me that to this day, it blows me away. However, in going across the country as I've told this story, it is amazing to me how many other people have said, he did that for me as well because that's who he is.

CAMEROTA: Fred, I mean, you're such a pillar of strength, my goodness, but it couldn't have been easy to write this book and to revisit all of that. And so, how have you gotten through the hardest days since then?

GUTTENBERG: You know, writing actually is cathartic for me, and writing this book and getting things off my chest has been probably one of the things that helped to save me over the past two and a half years. But it's in big ways and small. You know, listen, I talk about how on really bad days, how I get through it is with a helper who never even knew he was a helper to me, and it's my favorite musician -- I would get in the car, I would drive, I would turn on my Billy Joel music, I will clear my head.

But to get through every single day, it is with the love and support of people who come into my life. It is also knowing that I am part of a process that is going to culminate on November 3rd and lead us to a place where we're going to get to pass gun safety and finally be able to start taking the steps necessary to save lives.

We have failed at that for far too long. That's going to change on November 3rd. I know this country is going to turn out as helpers, they're going to show up, they're going to vote. If we vote, we move forward and we fix this.

CAMEROTA: Fred, it's wonderful to talk to you. You've given all of us strength through all of this, you've been such a beacon for so many people in the country. The book again is "Find the Helpers: What 9/11 and Parkland Taught Me About Recovery, Purpose and Hope". Fred, we'll talk to you soon. Great to see you. GUTTENBERG: Alisyn, as always, thank you so much. I really appreciate

you.

CAMEROTA: And you, thank you.

GUTTENBERG: Bye now.

CAMEROTA: NEW DAY continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirteen people are facing charges for allegedly plotting to kidnap and kill Gretchen Whitmer; the governor of Michigan.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators say the men planned to kidnap Whitmer from her vacation home and put her on trial for treason.

WHITMER: I'm not going to let anyone scare me from doing my job.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The next presidential debate now in doubt after President Trump rejected a move by organizers to make it virtual.

TRUMP: I'm not going to waste my time on a virtual debate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Claiming the president won't be contagious in a matter of days. The Trump campaign proposed postponing the debate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wouldn't be out of his contagious period yet by CDC guidelines.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world, this is NEW DAY, and this morning, new details in the plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan, Gretchen Whitmer. Let those words just sink in.

Thirteen men connected to extremist groups under arrest, we have disturbing new details about the preparations they made and the plans they allegedly had in place. Also the first public reaction from the president, instead of condemning the plot specifically or the alleged terrorists involved, he went after Governor Gretchen Whitmer.