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Cuomo Prime Time
Dr. Fauci: I'm Not Going To Walk Away From This Outbreak No Matter Who's President; SCOTUS Nominee Amy Coney Barrett Faces Grilling From Democrats; Massive Lines For Start Of In-Person Early Voting In Georgia. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired October 13, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
COOPER: Appreciate it, Randi. Thanks very much.
The news continues. Want to hand it over to Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME." Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: Thank you very much, Anderson. I appreciate it.
I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.
Literally, if this were a fight, this campaign, we are now in the last round. These three weeks, this is it. You're going to see both campaigns coming with everything they got. So, what do we see?
Biden is making sure he doesn't get put in a corner, right? He's moving around the ring. He's going to the places he needs to be. His hands are up, at all times, because he believes he's ahead on points.
Trump, on the other hand, knows he needs a knockout. He is going for broke. Every punch is a haymaker. He's swinging wildly. Every line is an insult. Every rally is likely to get someone sick. And you will not hear him say to put on masks, even though followers tell us they would do it, if he asked. Like I said, he's going for broke.
But here's Trump's problem. Here's his problem with the analogy. He's not fighting one opponent. He's fighting two. He's swinging at Biden, but he keeps getting hit by the pandemic.
America went from first to worst in terms of cases and deaths. And leadership has to be a reason why. Florida and, now, Pennsylvania, two places that Trump needs, Pennsylvania tonight, Florida last night, going back to Florida, why? They are crucial. He won them. Now, they're up for grabs, at best.
The pandemic, that he is saying is no big deal, that he actually caught, and needed to get two experimental treatments, in the hospital to beat, is not only not going away, it's in full effect in both of those states.
So, his rallies may have thousands cheering in his corner, but there are millions in those states who are feeling the beating from the virus and the failing economy as a consequence.
Now, the irony is if Trump actually took on the pandemic that is punching him in the face, he might win the election. We would surely be in better shape. Instead, he's running away from the opponent. He's pretending it's not even a real fight for us that Coronavirus will just magically leave the ring.
He says he's going to give you a big fat kiss, but he's not doing anything to get you the medicine that made him healthy again. Why isn't it for everybody? Why isn't he all-out on production of that? Why doesn't he have the wall mentality about getting us well?
He thinks he's past the test of leadership, but he's not getting us the testing we need, at work, in schools with our kids. It's a mess. We can't get back to business. We can't get our kids on the right track, because we can't protect the right people the right way.
But instead of throwing everything we got at the virus, he's throwing everything at the one man that you really trust when it comes to the pandemic, Fauci. He is actually once again - he didn't learn his lesson, right, that's Trump, double down on dumb - attacking Tony Fauci again for his prognostications.
The President literally told us it would disappear like a miracle that we'll be down to zero cases in February. You said it affects no one, ignoring the millions of us, who have died or lost someone or been sick.
It affects no one? You and your wife got it. The White House is a cluster. You're still telling us it's not worth attacking with everything we got?
Look at it in terms of the numbers. 68 percent believe in Fauci. And let's be honest. That number is low because Trump keeps giving him a beating, and so do his whole emissaries over on State TV.
The President's credibility has been like half that in the polls. What he should do is carry a picture of Fauci with him, show it to everybody, because saying you're with Fauci is a way better way to get votes than the flailing at everyone that you're doing.
Think of this. Think about it. This is the only time I can ever think of when the challenger in an election, Biden, right, is running in support of the policies that the President's own Task Force is proposing, and the President is running against his own people's recommendations. Think about how crazy that is.
Lucky for us, Fauci says, "Let him say what he wants. I'm in for the long haul."
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DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I'm not going to walk away from this outbreak no matter who's the President.
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CUOMO: Good!
False promises of disappearing pandemics, magical economic rebounds, pretending you can only trust him, when more of his people have been forced out or indicted than anybody, including Watergate, calling himself the greatest in the ring, when he can't float or fly. He can just lie and deny.
[21:05:00]
We are on the ropes, in this fight, thanks to pure Trumpery. No, I'm not making fun of the President's name. That's his game.
"Trumpery" is a real word from long before Trump. It means worthless nonsense, as in all flash, no cash, all show, no go. It derives from old English, trompery, deceit, French, tromper, to deceive. This President's name could not be a better fit.
He and his people like to play with mob references, right, especially when it comes to me. Well there's one that applies to him, and his desperate last round of antics.
When he says he wants to go out into that crowd and give everyone the kiss, remember "The Godfather?" He's giving you a kiss, all right? It's (FOREIGN LANGUAGE) the kiss of all kisses, the kiss of death.
You want to kiss people right after catching COVID, when not wearing masks and close quarters is making us sick, it's killing us? And his reaction, "I want to kiss all of you, as I dance the night away."
Look at him.
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(PRESIDENT TRUMP DANCES TO "YMCA" AT MAGA RALLY)
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CUOMO: "YMCA." Is he dancing or is that some of the long-haul COVID symptoms I haven't seen yet? Is he all right? He's all right.
215,000 dead, he's doing his whatever, happy dance, masquerading as if you don't need masks. Not once has he done a moment of silence for all of those who have been lost, all those families, at any of his rallies.
But soon enough, he's going to be done doing the talking. The fight is going to end, and soon, and he will listen to your decision because ultimately, you are the judge. So, the question for us tonight, as we begin, is what does the present tell us about where we're heading between now and this election?
We have Dr. Leana Wen and David Gregory. Thank you both.
Doctor, the idea that he is going to places like Florida and Pennsylvania, and saying, "We are turning the corner," not true.
DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST, FORMER BALTIMORE HEALTH COMMISSIONER, ER PHYSICIAN, PUBLIC HEALTH PROFESSOR, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: Not true at all because we are seeing surges all across the country. This is exactly not where we wanted to be heading into the colder months.
And I look at all these rallies. Any of these events could be the next super-spreader event. And it's not even what happens so much at the event. We all know it's not good for all these people to be gathering together, not wearing masks, flouting restrictions.
It's also what happens around the event, too, because these same individuals, attending the events, are probably also not following public health guidance. They're probably also going to indoor bars. And then, when they get home, they're probably not going to get quarantined and test themselves.
And I just really worry about this because you can make a decision for yourself. But I don't think you should get to commit others to a sacrifice that they did not make.
What about hospitals and healthcare systems and public health infrastructure? That's going to get overwhelmed and other people are not going to be able to get the medical care that they need.
CUOMO: Hospitalizations are on the rise. That's always the most important indicator.
Quick follow, many people have optimism because he's giving it to them. "Look at me, I beat it. I feel amazing. I'm immune, they say." Nobody's saying that. Nobody told him he's immune. But that's OK. He doesn't tell the truth.
But he's also not telling the truth about people being able to get access to the drugs that he got that apparently made him better, right? Is there any reason to believe that any time soon, anyone who gets sick is going to get either of the experimental treatments he had?
WEN: Look, Regeneron, the company that manufactured the antibody cocktail that he got, it's not even authorized for use by the FDA. And so, we are a long way off from people getting the same kind of treatments that the President got.
And, by the way, we still have to do the scientific research, because an anecdote of one is not science, it's not research.
CUOMO: Now David, good to see you, brother. Thank you for joining us on PRIME TIME tonight.
DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, AUTHOR, "HOW'S YOUR FAITH?": Good to see you.
CUOMO: The idea of him going for broke, and his main bet is, "I can beat the pandemic. I can keep people off of me of blaming me for how it is," why did he choose that as his strategy, when saying, "I'm going to take it on a 100 percent" would have been the more likely strategy?
GREGORY: Well you alluded to this in your "Fight" metaphor. I think he just fights. That's his one reaction. It's not a thoughtful reaction. It's just instinct for him. It's just fight whoever or whatever is coming at him.
But he didn't fight the pandemic, and the virus with anything he had. Now he's fighting the idea of it. And I think he's going for something else, and I frankly think it's more desperate, even though there is a real argument there.
[21:10:00]
He's basically saying Biden and other of his opponents are - want to overreact. They want to overreact to the virus. They want to shut the economy down. Today, we heard Pence say that on the stump today, that Joe Biden would shut down the economy again, and Donald Trump is opening things back up.
It's the same message he makes about, "You got to find some way to live with the virus that it can't overwhelm you, it can't defeat you." He gets in his own way, but there's still an argument to be made that I think a lot of Americans agree with.
CUOMO: That's a good argument, by the way.
GREGORY: Which we got to find a way to live with this.
CUOMO: Yes.
GREGORY: And follow the rules.
CUOMO: Yes. I mean here's the problem.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: I agree with you, David. Here's the next step I want you to take on it. I agree with you. I think there are a lot of people, who when they hear "Shut down again" they are like, "No way."
I know, Dr. Wen.
GREGORY: Right.
CUOMO: I'll get to you in a second because I know you see it through a different lens.
But they say, "I'm not doing that again." So, when they hear Biden say, "Yes, I'd be open to it," it frightens them. The problem is, is that that has to go hand-in-hand with seeing that the government is doing things to keep it from happening. See and that's--
GREGORY: Right.
CUOMO: --the President's problem is that where is his strategy to keep it from happening?
GREGORY: Right. And I don't think he has one, and I think that's the problem.
We spend a lot of time talking about things that Trump could be doing. Even Mike Pence, in the debate, could defend what the Administration did to combat the virus a lot better than Trump. He knows it better, and he can get out of his own way.
Trump only wants to fight. He wants to talk about personally overcoming it, how strong he feels, saying things that just don't make any sense and being a bad example, on top of it, and not using the bully pulpit to actually get people to change their behavior, and to simply follow the rules.
But again, but I do think there's a lot of people, who still have their kids at home, who don't see their schools, trying to figure out how to get to yes, how to get to re-opening.
You had Tony Fauci on last week. This is very confusing. I got to tell you. I follow this every day. The data are confusing about where cases are going up, where they're going down. I know that - I know that daily cases are too high, over 40,000, but there are parts of the country that are handling this virus much better than other parts.
And I know the fear of our healthcare professionals and our public health specialists is that if we continue to have people letting their guard down, as it gets colder, then you're in for real trouble.
CUOMO: Right.
GREGORY: But again, I think he's trying to exploit the idea that he'd say, "Look, we're doing the best we can. It's getting better, and the other guys are just going to shut everything down."
CUOMO: Right.
GREGORY: And that gets some people afraid.
CUOMO: See, the problem is, is that the roles are reversed, Dr. Wen.
Biden should be making the case that Trump is making, which is "He's going to screw it all up. Hey, look how bad it is. This is really, you know," and instead, you hear Trump saying, "No, no, everything - everything is, you know, it's fine. Biden is a panicker."
He's the one in charge. He's the one, who has to own the reality. He's trying to make Biden own the reality, in the eventuality. Now, what that gets us to is strategy.
And you and I talked the other night with somebody coming at the data from a different direction, which is this mode of selective protection. Some people need more protection than others. Certain areas are dealing with it better than others because of their population and how they're doing it. We don't have any central plan. So, how do we replicate what's working in some places in the places where it isn't working with no central planning?
WEN: Yes, that's a really good question, Chris. This is what happens when all along we know that we have not had a national strategy.
There have been pieces of a national strategy, as in there's actually a good plan around vaccines, so let's give the Trump Administration credit for Operation Warp Speed, although there have been some problems about politicizing that process. But still, there have been some good work around vaccine and therapeutics.
Some initial work now being done around testing, although, I will say that getting 150 million tests out, that sounds like a lot, but that's a press release. That's still not a national strategy.
And now we're seeing what happens when basically we're playing whack- a-mole across the country. We're seeing one part of the country do well, but then another part of the country becomes a problem. And then that does OK, then another part becomes a problem.
And so, I do think that having a national plan makes sense, but these principles, upon which the national strategy is based, we actually know what to do at this point. We need to stop talking about public health as somehow the enemy of the economy, or the enemy of school re- opening.
If we can just say something like, "Look, wearing a mask is what will allow us to keep our businesses open," or "Let's focus on restricting small gatherings, informal gatherings," that's what will allow our students to get back in school, if we don't also have play dates and birthday parties at the same time.
I mean, we can take sensible steps that other countries have taken, that do allow us, I think, to David's point, of getting life back to normal, as much as we can, and continue to socialize, not be isolated, reduce the burden on mental health, on the mental health system, and actually try to get back to normal, but with few of these public health strategies that we know are effective.
CUOMO: David, last word to you.
[21:15:00]
GREGORY: Well I just I agree with so much. I do think part of the problems with Trump not taking this seriously, and being in denial, and then being political, it was your point.
He should be holding Tony Fauci so tight so that they're shoulder-to- shoulder, because then the American public can see, "Well I may have my problems with Trump," but they have been shoulder-to-shoulder in fighting this virus.
That has not been the case. The President has denied, he's lied, and he's been inconsistent, and hasn't even followed his own advice. The strategy and the key for Biden, at this point, is to recognize how hard it's going to be, if he becomes President, and that he's got to really paint a picture of how he leads, and how it would be different, under his leadership.
Because the reality is that the reaction to Trump is also strong. And you see it with schools. There's a lot of schools who are in communities, like Washington D.C., that's doing a good job. And people are following the rules.
And they are still so risk-averse to opening schools, in large part because their teachers don't want to do it, and a lot of that is reaction to some of the politics. "So, if Trump says, "Reopen," then we should stay closed."
There's all of this that's coursing through the response to the virus that is a reflection of how it's been politicized, and it's - and it's really unfortunate.
CUOMO: Three weeks, and the pandemic will tell the story.
We've been doing this a long time. I'm actually older than David, but I look up to him as a journalist, because we have never seen a president whose fate hinges on a situation that he is refusing to confront. And this is the first time we've seen it. And we'll see how it plays out, and soon.
Dr. Wen, thank you. D. Gregory, as always, love you thank you.
GREGORY: Love you, you too.
CUOMO: Big day on the Hill. SCOTUS nominee Amy Coney Barrett just made it through an intense round of grilling by Democrats. How did she do? Look, she did the way they always do, OK?
We have one of the senators here who pressed her about one word that the Judge used more than once. Senator Hirono is here, next.
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[21:20:00]
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CUOMO: We're looking at the Supreme Court as if it's one seat either way. I don't think we're looking at it the right way. Here's a different perspective.
Today's Supreme Court decision to let the Trump Administration stop counting the census early, now that's the kind of decision that proves that what we're watching here with Amy Coney Barrett, it's not about her. It's not about one seat.
And look, she's doing what every nominee does, OK? They dodge everything. They get asked about abortion, they get asked about healthcare, the election, and they say, "Well I can't do hypothetical facts on to the law. I'd have to know the law and the facts. I can't do the case and hypothetical."
They all say that, all right? And then they oddly seem to follow, almost without exception, the Party's positions that placed them. So, this is about not seats, survival.
Republicans already established a generation of jurisprudence on the Supreme Court, right? They have the majority. It's going to be there for a long time. This confirmation is about ensuring the Party's future. The numbers show the strategy. This is real court-packing, OK?
McConnell blocked Obama's appointments on SCOTUS, but also federal courts below whenever and wherever he could. Now, he's packing courts all over the country with White conservative men, even though his Party represents a minority of this country, and the last two GOP POTUSes did not win a majority of your votes.
See, for the Republican Party, the end results go beyond abortion and healthcare. This is the Party's survival in a country that is growing beyond the confines of conservatism.
Two examples are playing out, as we speak, Texas and Georgia, both traditionally Republican-controlled, right? They're both facing really long lines of early voters. See, this is why governors try to make it harder to vote, because they don't like the prospects of this, because many of the people in those lines are not their people, OK?
That's why we just saw federal judges rule against making it easier to vote. What kinds of federal judges? Put there by Republicans, all of them appointed by Donald Trump.
The Republican Party holds power in the Senate, and the White House, not because the majority of you voted for them. I make that point twice because it matters. They hold power in spite of your will. The question is what are you going to do about it?
Let's start with the Democrats. We have three big names in the Democratic Party here tonight, all in the fight. The Senate, we have Senator Mazie Hirono, the polls, you got Stacey Abrams, and Pete Buttigieg, supporting, of course, former VP Biden, OK?
They're all going to tell you they got to win in November. And they're right. But they've done that twice in the last three presidential elections, so clearly telling you that ain't enough.
Let's bring all three in and have a good discussion here. Senator Mazie Hirono, thank you very much. I know it was a long day.
SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D-HI): Good evening, Chris.
CUOMO: What do you make of what you heard today?
HIRONO: I thought you described the situation so accurately.
It is about retaining power. And what the - what Mitch McConnell and the Republicans can't get through the legislative process, they are now packing the courts, so that they can get the courts to give them what they want.
And in this case, with Amy Barrett, the President has said, "I'm going to appoint some nominee, somebody who's going to overturn Roe v. Wade, and who will strike down the Affordable Care Act."
So, she can sit there and say all she wants that to tell us, "I'm just going to follow the law." But we know why the Republicans are rushing her through. ACA, Roe v. Wade, and a whole slew of other kinds of cases that protect our Civil Rights and environment, and you name it.
CUOMO: Does her faith create an issue for you more than you've seen with other judges? And if so, why?
HIRONO: No. Her faith is irrelevant. It's her positions on these issues that matter.
[21:25:00]
So, her position is one that certainly led the President to think that he's got a person, who's going to strike down the ACA, which, as you know, Chris, he's before the Supreme Court, right now, to totally strike down the ACA.
CUOMO: Senator, thank you. Stay with me.
Pete Buttigieg, it's good to see you. The - oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm going to bring him on.
So Senator, I'm confused, because I got two different lines of thought going on.
HIRONO: You got - yes.
CUOMO: And I'll give them - I'll give them both to you. And you help me suss it out.
So, this is what I don't understand, Mazie, in terms of what the goal is. So, you're questioning her. She does have an affiliation in a religious organization, which I think makes her different than most Catholics.
I think that her faith is by design more central to her value system and her behavior and thoughts than it would be for just an ordinary Catholic who doesn't belong to People of Praise. But let's put that to the side.
What can you do about any of this except expanding the size of the Supreme Court?
HIRONO: Well there are a lot of other things we can do, and I have been thinking about court reform for a while. So, if you really want to have a serious discussion about court reform, the Democrats need to take back the Senate.
Court reform is not something that you just toss out on a whim. You have to really discuss it, and think about the consequences of whatever you're doing. So, that's where I am.
So that's - increasing the size is only one. But I'd like to see some really strong ethics provisions, applied to the Supreme Court, which they currently do not.
So, there are a number of ways that we can try to balance the court so that they can truly be not the partisan political court that it's definitely turning out to be, but one that we can truly look at as being independent and objective so that--
CUOMO: Do you think Senator--
HIRONO: --people can get a fair shot.
CUOMO: --it would be less partisan, if you guys made more of the choices than the Republicans, or would it just be more partisan in your direction?
HIRONO: Well I don't call wanting to provide people with individual rights, expanding equal protections, I don't call that partisan. I call that what the Constitution requires, and what we should be doing.
But that is not where the Republicans are, by the way. And, in fact, the decision that you just mentioned that would shorten the census that is a case in point. They have OK-ed gerrymandering. They are OK- ing a lot of things that makes it harder for people to vote. And so, that's not where we are.
I expect our nominees - court nominees to not have written all kinds of things about how they don't want the Affordable Care Act, or they're against LGBTQ rights, or any number of things that the Trump nominees have weighed in on, and that is why they are being nominated.
So, he's ended up with one-fourth, or so of the entire federal judiciary. They will be there for their lives, decades.
CUOMO: Quickly, Senator, Senator McConnell said in a debate, the other night, when his opponent was saying, "Hey, look, they want Barrett on there, so they can get rid of the ACA. And the ACA has been good from Kentucky. It needs to be fixed, not eradicated," he said, "No, no, no, no, no. Nobody thinks Barrett being on the court will mean the end of the ACA."
Really? You think it. Don't most Democrats think if she gets on that court the ACA is done?
HIRONO: The President thinks it.
CUOMO: That's right. The President thinks it, right?
HIRONO: And the Republicans - the Republicans know it too, and they just don't want to admit it.
And they're hiding it from the people, their own people that they're about to rush this person on to the court so she can be there, November 10th, to hear the ACA case, which, by the way, was brought by 12 Republican Attorneys General and the President is right in there.
And so, yes, they want somebody who will - who will turn back the ACA, destroy it. They've been wanting to do that for at least 10 years. They voted 70 times in Congress to get rid of the ACA. So, to say, "Oh no, we're not doing that" is please, what? I just want to say, "Shut up."
CUOMO: There's a lot of that going around these days. Senator Mazie Hirono, really, thank you, after such a long day--
HIRONO: Sure, thanks.
CUOMO: --making the time to be with us on PRIME TIME. It's a benefit to the audience and to me. Thank you, and be well.
HIRONO: OK, you too.
CUOMO: All right.
While Republicans race to confirm a Justice, and we know why, if you want to have that case, about the ACA, on November 10th, the tradition is that if you weren't in to hear the case, you don't judge it, so, she's got to get in there to hear the arguments, all right?
But you know what's happening? Millions of you are already voting, waiting in these insane lines, in Georgia, for hours, like 11, loads of glitches. This is just like what happened in the troubled primary there.
Why is it happening again? How is it not going to impact the vote? Voting Rights Advocate Stacey Abrams makes the case next.
[21:30:00]
And also, we do have Mayor Pete Buttigieg. He's going to be here on what's at stake in this election. He's got a great new book.
Three weeks out, every second matters. Let's make the most of it.
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CUOMO: This is what early voting in Georgia looks like right now. Ridiculously long lines, more than 10 hours in some places. Think about it, would you wait 10 hours to vote?
It creates a big risk of de facto suppression, meaning, not technically by law, but we'll argue that part, but just the way it is, all right? Now, it's so hard that many may come and leave, or not come at all.
[21:35:00]
Now, just over three months ago, Georgia held its primary, and the scene looks a hell of a lot like it did then, long lines, technical problems. Once again, Blacks disproportionately having to work harder to vote. This is called systemic inequality. That's what it looks like.
Let's bring in former Georgia candidate for governor, Stacey Abrams.
Good to see you, Counselor.
STACEY ABRAMS, (D) FORMER GEORGIA GOVERNOR CANDIDATE, FOUNDER, FAIR FIGHT, AUTHOR, "OUR TIME IS NOW": Thank you so much, Sir.
CUOMO: Why is it happening?
ABRAMS: It's happening because we have two equal problems or so - not equal, two problems.
We have a Secretary of State who has refused to invest heavily in the areas where we need him to, to support elections, and we have, unfortunately, counties that are doing their best to scramble to fill in the gap, working organizations, and non-profits, but they cannot do the Secretary of State's job.
However, the most important piece is that we are also seeing voter enthusiasm to create change. And so, as angry as we should be, about the injustice, and the voter suppression, that is on display in Georgia, we should be extraordinarily pleased that people are willing to fight back, and to make their voices heard, despite the challenges they face.
CUOMO: Is there an end run? Are you allowed to approach people on those lines, and offer them an ability to mail in vote, or is that not available by law, or not allowed in terms of solicitation at the line?
ABRAMS: So, in Georgia, you have to apply for your absentee ballot, and you have to go through a certain process. You have to fill an affidavit, send it in, and receive the ballot, so it is not a possibility to do it in that way.
And because we are coming down the homestretch, Georgia is one of the states that requires that your absentee ballot be received by Election Day, not postmarked, which means you have to do it as quickly as possible, so that you can meet all of the requirements, and you don't get caught up in any challenges.
So, we're encouraging people, if they have an absentee ballot, to return it as quickly as possible. Take it to a drop box. Every time you have one, put it in the mail, if you want to, but make certain you get that absentee ballot in, as quickly as possible.
CUOMO: Now, you rang the alarm about this, in your election, and it seems as though nothing has changed. Is that the case?
ABRAMS: Well, it's not that nothing has changed. It's that Brad Raffensperger, the current Secretary of State has created new problems.
So, where we faced exact match, excessive purging, closure of polling places, in 2018, what he has decided to orchestrate are machines that are not - we don't have adequate number of machines. We have a bottleneck at the beginning of the process.
And, in fact, today, he said, well he's going to reach out to the state vendor for elections to make certain we have additional bandwidth, because one of the challenges is checking people in.
Now, mind you, there was a - there was an alarm raised about this that we needed to have a backup of paper poll books, because that's what's really causing part of the problem, and he sued to stop that from happening.
And so, not only has Brad Raffensperger created new problems, he's also refused to solve old problems. We have told him many times that they need to look at the resourcing of areas and look at the likelihood of turnout.
We know that this is going to be a high-volume election. All you have to do is look at the primary, and look at the absentee ballot results. So far, we have more people who've returned absentee ballots in 2020 than in the entire 2016 election.
And so, his failure to plan, his failure to resource and, once again, his failure to take responsibility is forcing Georgians to have to fight to vote.
But we're incredibly proud of not only their work, but the work of folks like Coach Lloyd Pierce, who has the Atlanta Arena - State Farm Arena, as a site, where people can go and vote in Fulton County, our single largest county, and we're so proud of those who've stepped up to fill the gap in leadership that has been left open by our Secretary of State.
CUOMO: The State matters anyway you look at it. And part of the job is staying on stories, not touching and never coming back. I promise you got this as a platform to tell us about what happens in this final round of this fight. As issues come up--
ABRAMS: Thank you.
CUOMO: --and you understand it, you will have a platform here to discuss it, OK?
ABRAMS: Thank you, Sir. I really appreciate it.
CUOMO: All right, Stacey Abrams, good to see you, good health to you and the family.
Another big-Party powerhouse ahead, because look, this is about whether or not the Democrats are going to get this done, OK? We talk about Trump all the time. You know what his game is. You know what the play is. You know what the numbers are.
What does Pete Buttigieg make of what this hearing today says about the future of the country? And he's got problems with this nominee, some of which I was talking about with Mazie Hirono. The Mayor has been paying a lot of attention to how her faith is applied, in ways that you may not know. Next.
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CUOMO: All right, we showed you, and we had one of the senators, Democrat, in their first chance to press Trump's Supreme Court nominee, Amy Coney Barrett.
They talked healthcare, abortion, same-sex marriage, and you know what they got? Nothing. Because you never get anything out of these nominees. And if they do say too much, that's the only thing that can get them nixed, as in Judge Bork.
Now, Amy Coney Barrett played the game. She insisted that she had not talked about specific cases with the President, or anybody else, like the upcoming challenge to the ACA.
Do you believe that? Would they pick her if they thought they didn't know how she was going to rule on that case? Now, she has said in the past that she doesn't think it's good law. Does that matter? How can it not?
Let's get some insight from former presidential candidate, the Author of "Trust: America's Best Chance," Pete Buttigieg.
Good to see you, Mr. Mayor.
PETE BUTTIGIEG, (D) FORMER MAYOR, SOUTH BEND, INDIANA, AUTHOR, "TRUST: AMERICA'S BEST CHANCE": Good to be with you.
CUOMO: One step sideways, Pete, then we'll go into it any way you want.
Faith, doesn't matter if you have faith, it matters about your positions. Fine. You're a Christian. I'm a Christian.
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She belongs to an organization called People of Praise. You know this. It is a devout organization. The people who sign up, especially the women, sign on to very specific behavioral covenants that, at a minimum, make a man a divinely-inspired ruler of a family.
This is more than just every Sunday. This is more than just a moral backstop in her life. This is a fundamentalist approach to her faith. Does that matter?
BUTTIGIEG: I'm sure that's an important part of her life, but I'm not interested in her faith, or her life, or her family, except in as much as it might affect all of us in terms of her decisions. And it's her judicial philosophy that I'm worried about. As a human being, I wish her well.
It's what she's going to do to all of us that I'm--
CUOMO: Oh! That's not good. Let's see if we can get Pete back.
No, it's never anything sinister. You guys always say, "Oh, you cut him off." Let's just take a quick break. We'll try to get his signal back. We'll continue the interview. We'll be right back.
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CUOMO: All right, we're back now with Mayor Pete Buttigieg.
Thanks, Mr. Mayor. Sorry about that. So, I get it. It's not about her faith. It's about the reasoning that
she's going to apply to the law.
However, you can argue that there is a conflation here, because her faith does shape how she sees certain things that are a function of the law. I don't know how it can't give in what she has signed onto with this organization.
So, it looks like she's going to get through. What are your concerns?
BUTTIGIEG: Well, my main concern is that they seem to be wanting to put marriage equality back on the table. This was a move that America made, a move-forward that we made five years ago, in the belief that there was no going back.
And yet, we saw two Justices, on the Conservative majority, that's already seated on the Court, just last week, write in ways that made it sound like they're ready to go back on that.
And just imagine, if this doesn't already affect you, and you're watching this at home, imagine how you would feel, watching this Committee proceeding, if you knew that your marriage only existed by a one-vote margin on this Court.
And, of course, you don't have to use your imagination to think about how this affects you, regardless of whether you're LGBTQ, because all of us, either ourselves, or somebody we know or love, has a pre- existing condition, something that's going to come before the Court, in a matter of days.
And it's very clear that part of the idea here is to take out the Affordable Care Act. They couldn't do it in Congress. They were going to try. And John McCain with that famous thumbs-down stopped them.
CUOMO: Right.
BUTTIGIEG: Now they're trying to do it in the courts. The very same people who said they're against judicial activism have now made it clear that the courts will be their rearguard action to undo healthcare protections. That's a life-and-death issue for so many of us.
And remember, this President promised. He said he would never nominate anybody unless he was sure that they would get rid of the ACA.
CUOMO: Right.
BUTTIGIEG: And this is a rare example of a promise that I would expect Donald Trump's pretty serious about keeping.
CUOMO: Well, on the Judge side. I mean that's why I don't get the reticence of the Democrats to talk about court-packing.
That's what McConnell has done brilliantly. He stopped Obama not just with SCOTUS, but with federal appointments. By the scores, he's stopped them. And now, he's packing them with very much the same kind of people, White, male conservatives, even though they don't represent a majority of the country. That's court-packing.
Why are Democrats treating it like it's the third rail? Nobody wants to answer the question--
BUTTIGIEG: Well--
CUOMO: --about whether or not they'd consider expanding the Supreme Court. Why not? Why not answer the question?
BUTTIGIEG: Because we know that the Republicans would love to talk about literally anything other than their effort to destroy American healthcare protections. And so, they would love for us to talk about this.
And as you know, Chris, this is a subject that I think is very interesting, in terms of bipartisan court reforms that we could come together, and look at, to reduce the politicization of the courts.
But we also know that the Republicans would do anything to get us talking about literally any issue. I think that's why we saw the President tonight, going back to his, kind of doubling-down on the "Crazy Uncle" strategy, in terms of trying to make some news with the stream of consciousness and the insults.
They don't want to talk about how this court appointment could affect all of our healthcare, again, not as some theoretical structural issue on the court, which is stuff I find very interesting, but something that could happen to us, in our lives, beginning in a matter of days.
And, of course, the other thing that they don't want to talk about is what's going on with the failed response to the pandemic.
And so, we're making sure with a level of discipline in the message that we have for the American people, in these next three weeks, to focus on the things that are most immediately at stake.
CUOMO: Pete, do you think that the President - the Vice President should debate again? The former VP? You think Biden should debate again or no?
BUTTIGIEG: I think that it was really unfortunate when Donald Trump pulled out of the proposed next debate.
I think it would have been great to see that Town Hall format. I think the President pulled out because he doesn't want to have that conversation, and especially in some format that he can't just shout over everybody, and distract us again. So, yes, I would have loved to see that.
But we also know that of course, millions of Americans are making their decision right now. And the most important thing on my mind is how do we reach those who are still thinking about whether to vote, even now, and how do we reach those, who are still thinking about how to vote even now? Because that's a lot of people, and that could make a huge difference. And yes, the polls look good. Yes, the President's falling behind, and you're seeing some flailing on his side, but let's learn the lesson of past elections, and not take anything for granted.
We have got to turn out every vote, especially with some of the efforts like what Stacey Abrams was just describing, to get in the way, or have longer lines, or make it harder.
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CUOMO: Now Pete, your book goes to the heart of this, which is - look, what is - Biden has, his best advantage, going into this race, is he's not seen as the kind of liar that Trump is. And look, you know what a precious commodity it was for you.
When people believe that you are not jazzing them, the way other politicians jazz them, it's a precious commodity. You're writing about it. You see it as a fundamental building block.
When I was looking through the book, here's my problem. Isn't it gone? You know what I mean? How do we bank on something that seems to be gone? Tell us about the book.
BUTTIGIEG: That's why I wrote the book. The big issues that we face right now are issues that we cannot solve without cooperation, whether we're talking about the pandemic, or climate change, or racial and economic justice, or even preserving our democracy itself.
We need cooperation, but cooperation depends on trust, and we don't have a whole lot of it as a country. There's less trust in institutions. Americans are less trusting of each other than a generation or two ago. And the world, of course, is less trusting in America itself right now.
But the question you raise, that's exactly why I wanted to write this book, and why I wanted it to come out before the election, so we could think not just about the problem, which I describe a lot of the sources that led to it, everything from the lies that this President tells to foreign efforts, to build and sew mistrust, here in the U.S., to a lot of other factors like how social media has been used.
But also, I'm looking for patterns that give us some insight on how trust can be built in a hurry. When I was deployed in the military, for example, I learned to trust my life to people I barely knew.
And that was because of a lot of factors, including the fact that we had been brought together to do something difficult, and we just had to trust each other, in order to get through it. That's where we are right now, as a country.
And I actually think as terrible as they are, the pandemic we're living through, and the climate crisis that's approaching, are opportunities, if we think about them in the right way, for us to build trust and credibility, here at home, and around the world, if and only if, we step up and actually deal with them. And I write about some ways I think we could do that. CUOMO: The book is "Trust: America's Best Chance." It's Author, Mayor Pete Buttigieg. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Good to see you.
BUTTIGIEG: Thanks for having me. Take care.
CUOMO: All right, now one of the reasons Pete has to write that book is because we're in tough shape. It's hard to see silver linings. It's hard to see how we come together. It's hard to see how this pandemic doesn't just stay here and just keep making everything bad, all right?
That's where our next guest comes in. You didn't see him on a Longboard guzzling juice, but he ain't drinking the Kool-Aid of Despair, either.
He wrote in "The New York Times" his reasons for why we should all have a dose of optimism, even as the pandemic rages on, and what role we, as Ameri-CANs, can have in shaping a better future.
Veteran Science & Health Reporter, Donald McNeil Jr., thank you for coming, Sir.
DONALD G. MCNEIL JR., SCIENCE & HEALTH REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Thank you for inviting me.
CUOMO: Convince me. It's all so grim. It's binary. It's us and them. It's opposition rewarded in a political culture where it's not about progress anymore. It's just keeping the other guy down. How do we get better? Why not despair?
MCNEIL JR.: I'm going to stay away from the political aspects of it.
I think part of the reason that times has shocked that I'm an optimist, is because I've been such a pessimist since I've been covering this epidemic from the beginning, where it's all been, "Hey, it is going to go, pandemic. Hey, a lot of us are going to die. Hey, we're not going to be able to lockdown anytime soon."
But now, although I'm a pessimist, about fall and winter, and I fear that many more people will die, if we don't do better, we have learned to do better.
Even seeing the scare in the White House has been a lesson to a lot of people that making a mask - wearing a mask may make more sense, so what happened in the White House doesn't happen in your house.
But then, beyond that, as soon as late December, early January, I expect that monoclonal antibodies will be deployed, at some point, and I expect that we will have two or three vaccines begin to roll out.
And then, we have six different vaccines in the works. And there may be as many as 800,000 doses by the middle of next year, which means that not only would all Americans be able to get them, but there'd be some for the beginning of the rest of the world getting them. And that - that will be it, one hopes, one hopes that nothing goes wrong and--
CUOMO: I got 30 - I got 40 seconds left. It's all yours. What do you want people to think about when they think about why we'll make it through this pandemic?
MCNEIL JR.: There's no question we were going to make it through this pandemic. The question is how many people were going die along the way.
And if you look back at the model that the White House used, back at the very beginning, it suggested the pandemic would be over by now, but 2.2 million Americans would be dead. Instead, 200,000-plus Americans are dead, which is terrible.
But we're doing better, relatively speaking, than we did in 1918, when we had no choice but to die. And there's going to be a way to stop it (ph). I can't say exactly by when, but as Tony Fauci has said, it's going to be probably about the middle of next year, some of the optimistic vaccine. Experts think it will be earlier than that.
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But you know, as Tony Fauci has said, you know, it's going to be probably by the middle of next year that some of the optimistic vaccine. Experts think it will be earlier than that. But you know, certainly by some time middle of the next year this should be fairly much over, then we've got to look to rebuilding the economy and helping the rst of the world.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: So, if we keep on the track, literally keep the faith, and you'll get in the right place. I encourage everybody to read your piece. It's very thoughtful. Donald McNeil Jr., New York Times, thank you very much.
MCNEIL: Thank you.
CUOMO: Thank all of you for watching. CNN Tonight with D. Lemon starts right now. That McNeil Jr. sounds like you.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Well, the optimism you mean?
