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Cuomo Prime Time

Melania Trump Reveals Son Barron Had Coronavirus; DoJ Sues Former Melania Trump Aide Over Tell-All Book; Osama Bin Laden Raid Veteran Rob O'Neill Dismantles Trump's Baseless Conspiracy Boost. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired October 14, 2020 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[21:00:00]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: News continues. Want to hand it over to Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME." Chris?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: All right, Coop, thank you very much.

I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.

We learned today that Trump's teenage son had COVID. Good news! They say he was asymptomatic, and is now negative.

But here's why I bring it up. How can Trump keep holding potential super-spreader events that will sicken other folks, and maybe their kids, after what his own family has been through?

I can relate to very little, when it comes to Trump's motivations. We may have grown up in the same place, but we are very different people. But this, I can relate to. I got my wife and son sick, just like he did. But with me, it crushed me. It left me ashamed and super- sensitive to keeping people safe.

Now, with Trump, not only does he not really talk about either of them that much, but he's parading around like Superman, and saying he understands COVID better now.

Well, if he does, why is he only doing things that will make it worse for others? Not only did he keep to - fail to keep his own family safe, like I did, but it's what you do, after you make that mistake.

It kills me that the shame and the fear and what might have happened, the way it - the way it plagues me to this day. And yet, he doesn't seem to give a damn. That's why I'm floored that after what he has lived, he's insisting on making more people sick.

Listen to him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Barron Trump, you know, he had - he had the Corona-19, the China virus. He had it for such a short period of time. I don't even think he knew he had it because they're young, and their immune systems are strong, and they fight it off, 99.9 percent. And Barron is beautiful.

(CROWD CHEERS)

D. TRUMP: And he's free, free.

(CROWD CHEERS)

D. TRUMP: Get the kids back to school. We got to get the kids back to school.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: None of this makes sense to me, as a father. I got to be honest.

He doesn't think his kid knew that he had it? Yes, yes, he did. Wouldn't you know? Weren't you talking to him about it? Weren't you in constant contact the way I was, and every other parent, because you're scared to death, even when they're asymptomatic, God forbid what will happen?

Where does this nonchalance come from? And they've got to go back to school? No kidding. Everybody has been saying that for months.

And every time you've said it, I have asked you the same damn question, and I know you've heard it. And I know people have come to you, to talk about letting them do more, and you say "No." How? How do they get back to school?

I got three kids with three different schedules. And my family is lucky. I got money. I can pay. I can have people help us. I can have tutors. I can have the - they don't even have internet in some of these places.

Where is the better testing strategy? Where is the protection for the people who need it? Where are the better ideas? Instead, he's at his third maskless masquerade of the week, in Iowa. The positivity rate is 20 percent there. Cases are up 37 percent, just from last week. This is what we want?

Did you see this sign? Over here, this way, to the "TRUMP COVID SUPERSPREADER EVENT." It's mocking, but it's also the truth, directly across from tonight's MAGA rally in Des Moines.

And people are still going. Why? Well, a big reason is they believe that COVID is nothing to fear because he keeps saying it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can't live your life in fear. And I'm not really scared of this virus. There is all kinds of other viruses out there that could jeopardize your health as well. So, can't stop living. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a 99.9 percent survival rate, and I am going to continue to live my life.

Trump getting the virus shows that we are all human, and anyone can get the virus. And you can be cautious, and you can get the virus.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I'm going to get sick and die, I guess it's my turn. But I trust God, and I'm not scared.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But if you don't put yourself at risk, you might not die.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If - I put myself at risk every time I go to the grocery store, I go to McDonald's, I go to work, I do anything. I'm not going to stop living.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: If you would just tell them to wear masks, they would do it. It can't hurt them. It can't hurt you. Can you really care this little about anyone else? You know what they're saying doesn't make sense. You know that their confidence in it is so largely founded on you having said it first.

[21:05:00]

Look, to the reasonable out there, just look what the lack of leadership is doing to us, to all of us. Just look at a map. Just show them the map. There is no green. There is no COVID-good zones. You see the green? 10 percent to 50 percent?

I know I say it every night. I know it's repetitive. How can I stop getting this message out when the pandemic is getting worse and worse than the spread of the virus is our inaction? Can you not notice that our federal government is bringing nothing new to the task? No better ideas? Ignoring it is not a plan.

No state is trending in the right direction. There is a sea of red on that map, 36 states with COVID exploding. That is on you, Mr. President. Where is your wall mentality to keep us well? Where are the better ideas? Where are the better ideas for testing and tracing?

Hey look, if you want to mimic this idea about herd immunity, and selective protection, then let's have the discussion. Bring us the ideas. How would you change things so that we can be safer, so that our kids can go to school, because right now, they can't?

Because for every Barron, for every Mario, my son, who gets sick, but they're OK, there is a teacher. There is somebody pushing a broom. There is someone making lunch. There is someone driving a bus.

And they're not those kids. And they're not as blessed and as lucky as these kids, with the infrastructure around them, to make everything OK. And not all kids get lucky. How can you say to send them to school when you know it's not safe? And look, I read the same research that you get talked to about. I know that kids are in better shape. But everyone around them, they live in a community, not a silo. You're barely making better something to give lip service to.

Why don't you do something that isn't just making it worse? It may be not just the best way to lead, but it may be your only way to win. And obviously that's all you care about. It has to be, because you're willing to lure people into these lured MAGA madness masquerades.

But I guess the fact that you're doing these rallies, the fact that you do them at all, knowing what you know, from your own family, and from all the research, and the experts who tell you, you are doing the wrong thing, I guess you holding these rallies kind of gives me my answer, that making a positive difference, surrendering the "Me" to the "We," it's not what you are about.

You are about a war of attrition. You are about scorched earth. You are about everything and everyone else loses, so you can win. Anybody who voices opposition, every institution, every truth, all of it, you will tear it down, if you think it elevates you in your own mind.

"Sure, I'm a liar, but they all lie. Sure, I'm bad, but he's bad, too. You can't trust anybody, so you might as well trust me." Sad! Maybe sick! But it may also be successful, at least in your mind.

How else can I explain to this audience that you decided to spit on our Navy SEAL heroes who took out bin Laden, the lunatic responsible for 9/11, the only closure so many in this nation got? For what? To prove to your base that you alone can be trusted?

You pass around this BS from a conspiracy group that the FBI labels a potential domestic terror threat, a group that claims that you're going to save us from some cabal of Satan-worshipping pedophiles and cannibals? I guess that's enough for you, right? "They can't be all bad," if they think that about you.

This group claims bin Laden is still alive, our government used a body double, and then you retweet that insanity, that insult to all the men, all the women, all the treasure, all the blood, to find that fiend, and take him out, to salvage the dignity of this country, and the strong message that if you mess with us, you lose, you spit on that?

[21:10:00]

Tonight, we have one of the SEAL team heroes. He's going to remind us of what heroism is. He's going to remind us of the reality because he lived it. He took the shots, and they landed. And he knows who he took down, no matter what Trump has to say about it.

Retired Navy SEAL Rob O'Neill is here. And, look, he's no Biden supporter. And I don't care. I'm happy for him to support the President. My problem is why doesn't the President support him? And I told you yesterday, trumpery is not a joke. It's a word in the

dictionary that means worthless nonsense. Look it up. It derives from old English and French from a word meaning "To deceive." You cannot make it up. This is the truth.

And the only remedy to this kind of deception is reality. So, let's get after it. We got Dr. Ashish Jha, and David Axelrod. We're going to talk pandemic, and its cleaving into and conflating with the politics of the moment.

Dr. Ashish Jha, you know the map better than I. You give us guidance on how to understand it. How big a problem is a lack of new and adaptive strategies to deal with the continuing spread of the virus?

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: So, Chris, thank you for having me on.

We have two sets of problems. The federal government has largely given up. They have decided that this feels like there is nothing useful coming out of the White House, at this point, on the pandemic, and every state is on its own.

And the problem is lot of states are getting tired, and they don't - they are not implementing the kind of plans that they need to. So, I am getting more and more worried that we are heading into a fall and winter without a national plan, and without the level of sort of state result.

Now, some states are doing it. I think New York is right up there, as a state that's very focused. But too many states are letting their guard down.

CUOMO: Yes, but even if they're on their game, OK, and again, I'm happy to get the call from my brother, after this, they've got problems in zip codes in New York. He does not have the data the CDC has.

He does not have the pocket that the federal government has, to be throwing testing into different communities. It's up. It's up. They're doing more testing. I get it. But it's not always the right kind of testing for the right situation.

And there seems to have been no increase in our intelligence, despite the months of additional experience. How should I understand that?

JHA: Yes, look, no doubt about it. Even the best states, and I do think Governor Cuomo, and the State of New York, right now, is a model for how we should be doing this.

But our country wasn't designed for 50 different pandemic responses. It was designed with a single federal response, with states being a central part of that.

So, I agree, like, at the end of the day, states cannot do this alone. This is why we're at 215,000 deaths. But states can do a lot. And my general feeling is if the federal government is going to be absent, let's help states do as good of a job as they can.

CUOMO: Axe, the operative theory has to be that the President believes that this strategy is working for him. Look at the size of the rallies. Look at the numbers in the states that matter.

People are resonating with the idea that, "Yes, F COVID, you know? Look, he beat it. You know, these Lefties, these Democrats, these mushy-heads in the media, they're afraid of all this stuff. Not him! Live through it, baby."

Can that win him the election?

DAVID AXELROD, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT OBAMA, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I don't think so. I think he's responding to being in a big hole by digging deeper here, Chris. And this is really a microcosm of what we've seen throughout this whole ordeal from the very beginning.

He thinks that he can impose his version of events, his version of the truth, his version of fact on this virus, just as he has imposed his version of the truth and facts on every problem that he's encountered in his life.

But the fact is the virus is the virus. It is unimpressed by his effort to spin. And now people are paying a tremendous price for it.

It was striking to hear all these people, as they have night after night say "I don't - I'm not afraid. I don't care. God will take care of me." But they're not just speaking about themselves here.

They are - they become a threat to others, who may not want to make that same decision, and don't know that they're exposing themselves, that these people are exposing themselves to this virus.

But, no, I think that he looks at those crowds, and he does think they're a reflection of enthusiasm.

But the reality is, if you look at the data, he is digging himself into a deeper and deeper hole, and it seems like he is spiraling into sort of a mad finale here that's going to end badly for him. Sadly, it's going to end badly for many Americans, too, who are impacted by this virus.

CUOMO: Suffolk County, where I live in New York, you know, somebody has a Sweet 16 party, 40 people get sick. Now they're getting fined. But obviously, the confidence to do something like that, it's going to have some kind of connection to the dialog and the dynamic in this country, Doc.

[21:15:00]

And then a study comes out that we're dying more, and not just of COVID. What do you make of this story? Why are we dying more across the board?

JHA: Yes, so two things, Chris. I mean, first on the issue of that Sweet 16 party that you mentioned,

there is this sort of narrative settling in that if you have a gathering at your house, if you have a party at your house, if you know everybody who's coming to visit, it's safe.

It's not. It's not. And that's where we're seeing a lot of spread happening across America, is those house gatherings and parties. So, people really do have to be far more careful than they're being.

In terms of the deaths, what we're seeing is now more and more data that the COVID deaths, that we have counted is surely an underestimate, that there are a lot of people who've died in the last six months, who probably, almost surely died of COVID. They died at home. They didn't get tested.

And so the excess mortality we're seeing in our population is really striking, and says that we have actually underestimated how bad this has been.

CUOMO: This is like the same BS that we dealt with in Puerto Rico actually. You remember that? I got to go right now.

AXELROD: Yes.

CUOMO: But, you know, so they were like, "Oh, only, you know, a handful of people died." Yes, until you start taking into consideration, who couldn't get to the hospital, who couldn't get their medicine--

JHA: Exactly.

CUOMO: --who's medicine went bad, who didn't get their treatments, who couldn't go to dialysis, and like those deaths don't count. We're going to deal with the same thing here.

AXELROD: Right.

CUOMO: We just never freaking learn. But we're in an election, so the people get to decide what path is going to make sense.

AXELROD: Indeed.

CUOMO: Dr. Ashish Jha, Axe, you're the best.

AXELROD: Good to see you.

CUOMO: Thank you for being with me, fellas.

JHA: Thank you.

CUOMO: Barron Trump, the President's youngest child, his son, tested positive as well. Now he is fine, they say. Melania Trump says she's encouraging everyone to live their healthiest life. How can she even say that with what her husband is doing?

I don't care about, "Oh, well, she has to do her own thing." If you can't get your husband to do what you are telling everybody else to do, why would they listen to you?

Now, is this really about her? No. It's about him. And I want to bring in his niece. Not only is she a pedigreed psychologist, but she knows the guy, and she knows the people who made him. And I want her to help us understand how his head can arrive at where he has all of us right now.

Mary Trump, next.

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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.

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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.

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CUOMO: I told you, at the top of the show, President Trump's youngest son, 14-year-old Barron Trump also got Coronavirus, we are told.

The first lady wrote in an essay, posted today, "Luckily he is a strong teenager and exhibited no symptoms. In one way I was glad the three of us went through this at the same time so we could take care of one another and spend time together. He has since tested negative."

Thank god for the kid, that's got to be a relief to his mother.

Now let's be clear, though. The President wasn't with them. He was in the hospital getting experimental treatment and care that almost no one else can get.

Trump's wife goes on. "I was very fortunate as my diagnosis came with minimal symptoms, though they hit me all at once and it seemed to be a roller coaster of symptoms in the days after. I experienced body aches, a cough and headaches, and felt extremely tired most of the time.

It was an unfamiliar feeling for me to be the patient instead of a person trying to encourage our nation to stay healthy and safe."

Two things. One, god willing, it says that way. A lot of people had cases like that and then wind up getting long-haul symptoms. God willing that doesn't happen.

But Mrs. Trump, you should keep an eye on yourself, stay in close contact with the doctor. If anything that doesn't feel right, just stay in touch with them, so you can somewhat track what's happening. There don't have a lot of good answers yet to make it better. But hopefully, you don't have to deal with it. But if you do, just be aware.

Now, the second problem is what she says doesn't add up. She wants to encourage other people to be healthy, start with your husband, OK? Start at home with the "Be Better," all right?

These maskless displays, these super-spreader events, that's how you got sick. That's how your kid got sick, and that's how your husband is making other people sick. And if you are going to speak up, then you've got to speak out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

D. TRUMP: So, thank you all very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: And you should start with him. And there is no indication that that happens. He's holding these masked rallies, and you know it's wrong. So why does she say it? But more importantly, why does he do it? We didn't elect her.

I want to bring in someone who knows personally where his mind takes him, and his motivations, his niece, Mary Trump, Author of "Too Much and Never Enough." And just as much as the niece, she's a highly- trained psychologist, and that's a nice combination to have, in understanding anybody's family, let alone this one.

Mary, it's good to have you once again.

MARY TRUMP, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S NIECE, AUTHOR, "TOO MUCH AND NEVER ENOUGH": Thanks, Chris. It's great to be here.

CUOMO: So, the normal mind says "Well, listen, if I want to lead these people, I can't be, not telling them to do the right things, and then having them do the wrong things, just because I want to feel good about myself."

He comes to a different conclusion, even after having COVID because?

M. TRUMP: First of all, we can't apply logic or rational thought to anything Donald does. That's not going to get us any answers.

Secondly, when I learned that he was ill, I was worried that he would get a mild case and/or recover quickly, not because I thought he needed to be sicker, but I think it would have been better if he hadn't gotten sick at all.

[21:25:00]

Because this way, this worst-case scenario would allow him to emerge triumphant against this virus, because he's such a tough guy, and he would then go on to tell other people that they don't need to worry about it, they don't need to be dominated by it, they don't need to be afraid of it.

And interestingly, Melania kind of echoed this in saying that luckily Barron is a strong teenager.

First of all, I am inexpressibly relieved that my cousin is OK. But let's be honest, he was put into a dangerous situation by his parents who have not been taking adequate precautions. And secondly, children are dying from this very deadly virus.

So, the only thing I can say, really about how Donald is handling this, is in order for him to course-correct, when he realized that his initial way of dealing with it wasn't working, would have been to admit that he was wrong.

So, he needed to double-down by saying it wasn't that big a deal and it was just going to go away. And we see the results of that, and it's pretty devastating.

CUOMO: Is it odd that he didn't mention that his son had it? I mean ordinarily, parents worry more about their kids, you know? And it's not like he's been that private about his personal life. Is there anything to that for you?

M. TRUMP: Yes. Unfortunately, in my family, and this started with my grandfather, illness of any kind, whether it was a physical ailment, or an addiction, was seen as weakness.

And being weak, certainly in terms of, as my grandfather understood it, was unacceptable. So, Donald, one he - he doesn't want to be associated with COVID at all, even if it's somebody else having it.

So, there is no way that he would admit willingly that anybody in his family had it. And I continue to believe that if he had been asymptomatic, we probably would never have known that he had tested positive for it either.

CUOMO: It's just interesting to hear how he said it. "Barron Trump - Barron Trump had the Coronavirus," he didn't even know what to call it, instead of "My son." I thought that was weird.

M. TRUMP: Yes.

CUOMO: I gave it to my wife and my son. And I would have gladly put an icepick through my eye to have spared them either of it. Thank god, they didn't have it anywhere the near I did. I'm the weak link in my family. But it changed me forever in terms of--

M. TRUMP: Yes.

CUOMO: --how I felt about myself in that moment and I can't conceive of ever putting people at risk--

M. TRUMP: Right.

CUOMO: --the way this President is doing, so nonchalantly, after what he learned from his own.

Why doesn't that natural kind of shame reflex take hold and be like, "I got to learn this. You know, I can't - I can't risk this, after what just happened with me and my own."

M. TRUMP: Because he doesn't have that reflex. He would deny it as long as he could.

And, as you mentioned, he was lucky enough to have at his disposal world-class medical care, and experimental drugs that are not available to practically anybody else on the planet.

So the idea that he would have shame or that he would learn from the experience is, you know, it's not going to happen. And that's why we continue to be in the situation we're in, because partially, for Donald, it's kind of a power play too.

He's getting all of these people to show up, to these rallies, these super-spreader events, and that makes him feel powerful. It makes him feel invincible that he's out there, on the stump again, after having been ill.

And putting people at risk doesn't matter to him, if - I think you said this earlier, the crowds are still showing up, because he thinks that that's the metric that matters, in terms of the election.

As for the people who are showing up, some of them may be are just taking a risk, because they're irresponsible, but a lot of these people--

CUOMO: They believe him.

M. TRUMP: Right. I mean he--

CUOMO: They believe it's OK because he's saying it's OK.

M. TRUMP: Right.

CUOMO: They parrot his own words. We had a woman--

M. TRUMP: That's right.

CUOMO: --at the rally last night, say, "Hey look, if he told me to wear the mask, I would." I don't know how he lives with that.

M. TRUMP: That's right.

CUOMO: And here's the last question for you. If he is willing to do something that he knows is dangerous, for these people's health, there is no way he believes that everybody will handle it the way he did. He knows better than that because he's on tape saying that--

M. TRUMP: Right.

CUOMO: --people get sick and people die. So, he knows. What does that tell us about what he is willing to do in the next three weeks?

M. TRUMP: I think that tells us everything we need to know. But I will add one caveat.

[21:30:00]

COVID-19 is a very tricky deadly disease about which we don't know that much still. So, there is no way to know if that - if he's over - over it, right? We don't know what the course of his illness may continue to be, but that aside, he'll do anything.

If he feels that it will help him out, in the election, to continue putting people at risk, continue to downplay the virus, continue in- person, to get people infected, he is going to do that.

And my advice would be for people to stay away from him, whenever possible. Don't listen to him. Listen to your doctors. Listen to actual epidemiological experts and just keep your heads down, because it's going to get really, really bad, if things continue to trend as badly for him, as they are right now.

CUOMO: Mary Trump, thanks for the memories. Appreciate your insight into what's going on. I mean, I honestly don't know what to say anymore, you know?

M. TRUMP: I know.

CUOMO: I mean I know where you come from. I know your family. We grew up around some of the same people. You've got a great reputation. It's just family is crazy enough until you have to then see it lived out on a national stage like this.

So, thank you for your insights. I'm sure there are other conversations you'd rather have. Be well.

M. TRUMP: Thanks so much, Chris. You too.

CUOMO: All right.

I mean, seriously, what kind of mess are we in? And in terms of what they're willing to do, well, we know what he did to his niece, right, his own family?

Now we're going to turn to an estranged friend of the first lady. It's one thing that you have a falling out between friends, OK? The friend is volunteering to help her friend, Melania, things get sideways. That happens.

But now, Trump is having the Department of Justice sue that friend, the Author of a Melania Trump tell-all, federal suit. Why? Because they say "You were supposed to keep quiet, and now that you didn't, it's a national concern."

She's planning to fight back. How? Why? Next.

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CUOMO: As the President puts on a show of strength, we have yet to see first lady Melania Trump back in the public eye. Look, we wish her well. It's been two weeks now, since the two of them tested positive, and apparently, their son, their youngest son, their only son, Barron Trump as well.

We know this because Melania Trump now put out an essay on her experience with COVID, and told us that her son, Barron, teenager, had it as well. Makes you wonder the timing of this, and what exactly is happening.

Now, somebody who used to know very well is Stephanie Winston Wolkoff, former Senior Aide to the first lady, Author of "Melania and Me."

Welcome back to PRIME TIME.

STEPHANIE WINSTON WOLKOFF, AUTHOR, "MELANIA AND ME": Thank you for having me, Chris.

CUOMO: You're a parent. I'm a parent. I would expect to hear about your kids, long before you, no matter what was going on with you. That's how most of us work. How am I supposed to understand that I didn't hear anything about their son being sick until now?

WOLKOFF: Well, I'm glad that they're feeling better, obviously.

I have to say, the way that you handled your experience, and that you shared with all of us, I think, helped everyone understand how catastrophic this is, and it touches all lives.

Melania's first instinct is to always keep a distance and to keep that steel wall barrier around her. I think this was an opportunity for her to show that empathetic side, to connect to the American people, to share her experience because no one has been able to connect in any way with her, or Donald, and this was a missed opportunity of our reality.

So, again, as much as they have incredible healthcare, unlike the rest of us, there is over 215,000 people dead because of this. And unfortunately, they did not learn a thing from this.

CUOMO: Now, she says in this essay, "Hey, you know, I'm glad we could take care of one another. That's an important message right now. And I'm not used to being the patient. I'm used to telling people you got to be healthy. You got to take care of one another."

How does she separate the power of that message and the need for it with the fact that her husband is a constant counterbalance?

I mean, why does she think that she has the position to tell other people the right way to be, when she can't even get her husband to do it the right way? In fact, he is actively doing it the wrong way.

WOLKOFF: Because she doesn't do it the right way either. I mean she can do a PSA, and wear a mask, and tell you that everyone should wear a mask. But the next day, she's visiting a school without a mask on. I mean, it's the same contradiction. They're hypocritical. They're - it doesn't make any sense.

CUOMO: So, the way she said in that tape, that you had, who cares about the Christmas-blank, you could fill in that with who cares about the COVID-blank?

WOLKOFF: You know what, Chris? I think it's a juxtaposition right? We are supposed to look at the two of them, and feel that Melania is the softer side of Donald. The reality and the fact is, is that she's not. She's just like Donald.

And it's unfortunate because we are in the middle of a crisis, where we do need a voice of a first lady to come out, and to help, children and women. And, again, as Mary was saying, mental health issues are of utmost importance.

And again, it's the first lady can say a lot, but it's the actions that speak louder than words. And right now, there are none, except Donald dancing in the middle of the crowd, making a fool of himself, and the rest of the country, when people around him are dying.

[21:40:00]

CUOMO: Now, not to get ahead of the audience. You have to read Stephanie's book, and you'll understand why she's on TV right now.

I know Stephanie. This is not somebody that is looked at, as a disloyal friend, unless she's been thrown under the bus. And if you read the book, you'll understand that that's exactly what put her in the position. You would never see her on TV talking about anybody else. I promise you that.

But now, not only is it about who did who wrong, and how it exposed you to scrutiny, you have the Department of Justice saying that your decision to write the book betrayed secrecy in a way that creates a national interest for the Department of Justice to sue you. What do you make of that?

WOLKOFF: Look, the Department of Justice has turned into the Trumps' own police force, unfortunately. I expected nothing less from them. I didn't expect for them to waste taxpayers' money, coming after me, in regards to my personal relationship with Melania, over 15 years.

Little - I think that they've opened up Pandora's Box, in reference to this contract, and so there is a lot still to be discovered. But it's just - it's so unfortunate that this is, again, law and order - again, according to Donald Trump, which is actually a racist term, is something that he should not be doing right now.

CUOMO: Why aren't you concerned about legal exposure? You did sign documents when you decided to volunteer, and help out, and be an adviser. Why do you feel that you didn't breach any contract?

WOLKOFF: So, here's the thing.

When I worked, starting November 8th, for Melania, and the President's Inauguration Committee, I signed an NDA for the President's Inauguration Committee. I didn't sign an NDA with Melania, from November 8th, 2016 until August 22nd, 2017. And in that time period, a lot of what is in the book is what's exposed.

Now, in addition to that, the things that I did talk about, I worked with a First Amendment lawyer, and a pre-publishing lawyer, very carefully, to make sure that I wasn't breaking any of my confidentiality agreements, which ended, by the way, Chris, when my contract was terminated, when I was severed from the White House.

So, in addition to that, the lawsuit has so many claims in it that are false, that weren't covered by the NDA. So, we'll see what happens.

CUOMO: We'll be watching it.

WOLKOFF: But I'm coming full speed ahead.

CUOMO: I hear you. And as I've promised from the beginning, when I start a story, I don't stop covering it, until it's over. You will have opportunities here to discuss it every step along the way. You deserve that because certainly the Trumps will have a big platform to make their own case.

Stephanie Winston Wolkoff, thank you very much for joining us.

WOLKOFF: Thank you so much.

CUOMO: Be well. All right.

WOLKOFF: Thank you.

CUOMO: Now, this is heavy, OK? This is not joking around. This is not Left and Right. This is reasonable. This is all of us. OK?

We know what bin Laden meant to this country. We know how much pain, there was, how much fear and how much hurt. And we know how hard it was, to get him, and how many men and women put their lives on the line, and bled for that.

Imagine being part of that raid, putting your life on the line, seeing your brothers do the same, and then seeing the President decides to circulate a conspiracy theory that you're BS that the raid was a hoax, it was a body double.

Retired Navy SEAL Rob O'Neill, hero by any definition, is here. He knows the reality, and he knows that we know the reality. But I want to talk to him about what this means to him, and the men who put their lives on the line, and are right now, for us and our freedom, next.

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CUOMO: The Commander-in-Chief is attacking the heroism of the men and women that he leads. This conspiracy theory garbage that he decided to retweet is not me showing you, why? Because the facts are not in doubt.

Osama bin Laden was killed May 1st, 2011 by U.S. Special Forces, in an early morning raid, in Abbottabad, Pakistan. One person who knows firsthand is someone who was there, former Navy SEAL, Rob O'Neill.

Senior Chief, welcome to PRIME TIME. Thank you for your service.

ROBERT O'NEILL, FORMER NAVY SEAL & OSAMA BIN LADEN RAID VETERAN: Thank you for having me, Chris. It's great to be on your show.

CUOMO: Please understand, Sir, I do not have you here to question the events of that night, or the planning that led up to it.

But let the American people know the sacrifice that that mission could have gone sideways easy and almost did. What is the reality about what the men, who protect us, made sure happen that night?

O'NEILL: Well, the first thing I want to say is that every man that was on that mission, to include the aircrew and the pilots, are all alive. We all went in there. We all kissed our kids goodbye, expecting death, because of what happened on 9/11, and we were going to do it.

And then, just right now, to see it being these conspiracist theories thrown around, due to politics, it's almost like - it's an insult to real people, who - because they bring in another event from part of our brothers at SEAL Team Six with their Gold Squadron that were shot down in August.

But despite doing this stuff on the internet, and making such light of something like this, you're really trampling on graves of some of the best heroes I've ever personally worked with. And it's just a shame that we've gotten there because of politics.

CUOMO: Is it OK that you have to take one for the President to help him make the case that "You really can't trust anything these days. You can just trust me. Even that SEAL team stuff with bin Laden, who knows, if that happened?"

O'NEILL: Well I mean the thing is he can go over to the CIA, any time, where there is a file cabinet, with a picture of bin Laden's head, and my hands are in the picture.

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And then, we took a bunch of pictures of him, not only in his own bedroom, but also in Jalalabad, the first place we stopped, when we crossed the border, and realized we were going to live.

And then, when we took him up to Bagram, so that the three-letter agencies that people smarter than me could do all the DNA tests. And that's what took so long for us to confirm it that night, because President Obama was waiting for the confirmation on how many people were left in the house.

And for them - for people to say that we flew, on the way back, we realized the DNA was wrong, we flew him into the mountains, or speaking of conspiracies, my favorite is someone decided that Hillary Clinton sent some missiles, through Qatar, to shoot down SEAL Team Six to keep us quiet.

If there was a conspiracy with a body double, then they would have shot us down, as we were flying out. They didn't even - none of the guys that were killed were on the bin Laden raid.

And just the way that it spins politically, and then for Twitter, of all places, I mean I personally like to use Twitter for entertainment a lot. This is not the time for it.

CUOMO: By the way, what you put out was funny. Obama--

O'NEILL: I felt so (ph).

CUOMO: --Osama bin Johnson, funny, it was funny.

And you get to joke about it, absolutely. You are a hero. You put yourself out there. And you did something that a lot of people thought would never get done, especially the way they were hiding him. But the President knows the truth. This isn't about going over to the CIA.

It's about a campaign, where he wants people to feel confident that the only confidence they can have is in him, and everything else they think they know they should doubt, even if it means making you guys look bad. And that's what he did, Chief. Left, Right, that's reasonable.

O'NEILL: A lot of the people who reached out to me today, and they said, "I hope you're doing OK," and I said this is actually comical because if you have the truth, you're going to be fine. And I've never lied about this mission once.

But I started getting texts from guys, on the bin Laden mission, going "Holy crap! I didn't know we were dead. What did you do in there?" and all the stuff. I talked to a number of guys that were on the ground in Abbottabad that night.

And again, turning this political, this is a - this is a mission. It's been brought up before by the President--

CUOMO: Right.

O'NEILL: --to the - that there are other people like Abu Bakr al- Baghdadi more important than bin Laden. 95 percent of the people couldn't pick out Abu Bakr - of our people couldn't pick out Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi in a lineup. Show anyone in the world a picture of Osama bin Laden, they know who he is.

CUOMO: Right.

O'NEILL: And it was I mean - to make it political - any time to release the photos is now.

CUOMO: Well look, again, the truth isn't in dispute. You're no Biden fan. You believe this President has done good things, and that's your right to believe it. I'd never keep you off this show because of any political opinion you have. You're always welcome here because you're a hero.

But do you want the President to know this is not something to play with, leave you guys, and the deeds that you do for this country, and its democracy, out of the politics?

O'NEILL: No. I appreciate you saying that. Thank you. And I'll come back any time.

But it's one thing for a wacko to be a conspiracy theorist and claim he has all these NDAs, but just to get it retweeted by the highest- ranking person of the country.

And again, maybe I'm a Biden fan, maybe I'm a Trump fan, but I tell everyone I am an American. And this isn't America that it's a worldwide thing. We lost people from more than 80 countries in the Twin Towers alone.

And then we had - I mean we had the people on Flight 93, the first Americans to fight al-Qaeda, and what was so awesome about that is they took a vote. We're going to vote to fly, and they won. And they saved lives in the Capital were aboard to take it (ph). So, there's a lot more American, and just our entire Western ideology here.

CUOMO: Right.

O'NEILL: And I think it's bigger than a retweet.

CUOMO: Well Chief Rob O'Neill, the President often watches, and he's almost always told about what's on the show. I hope he hears, and knows that some things have to be kept clean.

And what you guys do for us, in keeping us free, and going after the people, who want to take our freedom, has to be appreciated, and it is certainly appreciated here, and always will be. Sir, thank you for your service.

O'NEILL: Thank you for having me. Appreciate it.

CUOMO: God bless and be well.

All right, nothing's sacred. When nothing is sacred, things get scary fast, OK? A Trump DoJ investigation just reported it yielded nothing. OK, so that's good, right? No. It's bad.

Why? Because what they were investigating was set up on a false premise that you heard this President, and his Attorney General say, over and over, as if it were true, and that they were going to root it out.

Well, aren't you owed an explanation now that the investigation came out the opposite way? You are. And I'll give it to you, next.

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CUOMO: When "The Washington Post" reports that Bill Barr's big investigation into the unmasking of Michael Flynn turned up nothing, it matters. Why? Because of how we got here.

This President sold hard that Obamagate was going to shake you to the core.

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D. TRUMP: Well, the unmasking is a massive - it's a massive thing.

And you see that the Obama administration, and perhaps longer than that, was doing all of this unmasking.

The unmasking and the spying, and to me, that's the big story right now.

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CUOMO: Of course, it's the big story.

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D. TRUMP: That's a very, very big story.

LESTER HOLT, ANCHOR, NBC NIGHTLY NEWS AND DATELINE NBC: You didn't take--

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CUOMO: Of course, it's the big story, because it's not about you, and it's about you making everybody else look as bad as you are, and plenty of Republi-CAN'Ts were willing to invest their credibility in the same.

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SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Unmasking of American system - citizens, I am actually concerned about that.

REP. DEVIN NUNES (R-CA): There is the issue of unmasking, additional unmasking, and that's, I think, of most concern to me.

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): This Committee should be concerned about is the unmasking that took place at the end of the Obama administration.

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CUOMO: Yes, yes, now what? The lapdogs at State TV also, willingly devoted hours to it.

This President threw the full weight of the Department of Justice into a search for anything that proves the Obama administration was out to get him. Do you know how easy it is to find something?

This unmasking probe is just the latest. Barr's much-hyped Durham report doesn't have anything they plan on sharing before the election. Wonder why? Actually, I don't wonder at all.