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America's Fall Wave Builds Fast as Infections Surge; Backlash Over Dueling Trump-Biden Town Halls Tonight; Bar Owner Battling Coronavirus Slams Trump's Response. Aired 1-1:30p ET
Aired October 15, 2020 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:03]
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The government is going to see how things go over the next ten days or so and see if these measures can help to flatten the curve of new infections. If not, well, the chancellor says she is prepared to bring in more stringent ones.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN INSIDE POLITICS: I hope to see you back here tomorrow.
Brianna Keilar picks up our coverage right now. Have a good day.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN RIGHT NOW: Hello. I'm Brianna Keilar, and I want to welcome viewers here in the United States and around the world.
The U.S. is far from where it needs to be on coronavirus infections as we are heading for colder weather that will force Americans indoors. Americans are dying of COVID-19 at an average rate of 700 people per day. More than 51,000 new cases are being recorded each day.
And just last hour, the CDC released a dire new forecast, projecting a death toll of 240,000 by the first week of November.
And yet, President Trump is set to hold a crowded rally this hour, the reality of the fatal pandemic absent from his messaging less than three weeks from Election Day. He and his advisers continue to embrace herd immunity, which would require at least 60 percent of Americans to contract the virus. And, currently, only an estimated 10 percent have antibodies despite the death toll.
And now, the nation's top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, is sounding the alarm.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: There will be so many people in the community that you can't shelter, that you can't protect, who are going to get sick and get serious consequences. So this idea that we have the power to protect the vulnerable is total nonsense. You will wind up with many more infections of vulnerable people which will lead to hospitalizations and deaths. So I think that we just got to look at that square in the eye and say it's nonsense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: More than a dozen a public health organizations are echoing Dr. Fauci, condemning this herd immunity approach, which, to be clear, is not a public health strategy despite the White House selling it at such. That includes the World Health Organization, which is also now shedding light on a vaccine timeline. One of the organization's chief scientists said this in part, quote, there will be a lot of guidance coming out that I think an average person, a healthy young person might have to wait until 2022 to get a vaccine.
The coronavirus numbers that we are seeing reveal the fall wave of this pandemic is officially upon us. I want to bring in our CNN Senior Medical Correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen. And I think, Elizabeth, we all expected first wave, second wave, but it kind of feels like we never even got out of the first wave, that it is like two waves with barely a trough between them. So, what does that mean for the months ahead?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, I think that's a perfect way to put it. You can think of it as sort of surge after surge. What it means for the coming months is really not good. There was a lot of hope over the summer. Let's try to get these numbers down so that we go into the winter with the lowest possible case load, but that's not what's happened.
If you take a look at cases across the United States, most states are seeing an uptick. There is a 16 percent increase in cases nationwide from the previous week with more than 50,000 cases, new cases every day.
And, Brianna, the reason why we want it to be in a good position for winter, which we're not, but the reason why we wanted to be in a good position is really two reasons. One, once it starts getting cold, you can't have those nice, socially distanced picnics or barbecues. It's too cold to be outside, so people are going to head inside. They will be in closer contact with one another.
Also, the flu season is upon us. It is going to start sort of November, December, January. Those numbers, you know, could get high. And then you're overloading hospitals, not just with COVID cases but also flu cases. Brianna?
KEILAR: Yes, we have many challenges ahead here. Elizabeth, thank you so much.
Instead of watching the originally scheduled presidential debate tonight, there will be dueling town halls with the president and Joe Biden. Here is how we get to this point 19 days before the Election Day.
The president refused to do a virtual debate after he was infected with coronavirus, so that debate was canceled. Biden scheduled a town hall with ABC and NBC decided to hold one with the president at the exact same time. So, in short, the president forfeits the game and instead of it counts as a loss, he is given another game to play but without an opponent.
When the commission offered a virtual debate following the president's positive coronavirus diagnosis, he bailed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I'm not going to waste my time on a virtual debate. That's not what debating is all about. You sit behind a computer and do a debate. It's ridiculous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: He doesn't like interviewing remotely unless, of course, it is with his pals. The president doesn't mind at all, calling into Fox or appearing remotely with Fox, even though that's exactly what he'd do during a virtual debate.
[13:05:00]
But this is hardly the only excuse that he has peddled over the years in regards to debates.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I heard that the commission a little while ago changed the debate style, and that's not acceptable to us. I beat him easily in the first debate.
They want to change the rules. That's what they want to do and allow the moderator to cutoff the microphone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: The format and rules have pretty much remained the same for the last 30-plus years, through eight elections. The only reason they're contemplating a change now is because of the president's behavior, interrupting his opponent at a feverish and unproductive pace.
But, of course, it is not just the format.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: This is a commission that's a very left-leaning commission. I frankly wouldn't have even used it, and I could have done that except it's been used for years. But this is a Clinton/Obama-type commission.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: No. The commission is, and has long been, made up of both Republicans and Democrats. And the commission's current chairman was chairman of the RNC for six years. But even then, the blame always seems to turn to the moderator. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting animals.
TRUMP: I don't have a lot of respect for Megyn Kelly. She's a lightweight.
She gets out and she starts asking me all sorts of ridiculous questions. And you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever.
I'd like to know, Anderson, why aren't you bringing up the emails.
It's nice to one on three.
Well, first of all, I guess I'm debating you, not him. But that's okay. I'm not surprised.
I end up with Chris Wallace. Chris was terrible. He was protecting Biden the whole night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Two of those moderators were actually from his favorite channel. But the excuses can also be much shallower.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Last time, I had a big problem. They oscillated my mics when I had the one debate, three debate with Hillary. And on the first debate, they oscillated the mic and they oscillated it very, very seriously.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: He baselessly insists audio issues were because of sabotage.
To lower expectations, there is even a pattern of the president baselessly accusing his opponents of juicing before debates.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We should take a drug test prior, because I don't know what's going on with her, but at the beginning of her last debate, she was all pumped up at the beginning. And at the end it was like, oh, take me down. She could barely reach her car.
Well, he's on some kind of an enhancement, in my opinion. And I say, we should both. I should take drug test, so should he. Because we don't want to have a situation where a guy is taking some kind of a --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's like athletes --
TRUMP: No, no. I want to take one. I'll take one. He'll take one. We should both take a drug test. (END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Of course, that is not fact-based, and it's absurd, but it's also par for his course.
And before the first debate, President Trump and his favorite channel even pushed the old earpiece myth.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Trump team asked to inspect the ears of each debater for electronic devices or transmitters. The Biden team has not consented to that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Things going back and forth over issues like earpieces.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the earpiece, what's the truth? Does the Trump campaign standby the fact that you believe that the Biden campaign refused an ear check?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is correct.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The president wants everyone to look in the ears to see if there is a device in there. Joe Biden says, no way.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bathroom breaks, transmitters and drugs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: It is a cynical, cynical strategy. The president and his allies push and push conspiracy theories and misinformation. They repeat them ad nauseam so that millions of viewers just end up adopting it as fact.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Now, he is already saying that he can't do the debates because of COVID. Do you believe it?
TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: Imagine Biden spending six hours on stage with Donald Trump trading jabs on live television? He can't do that, so he's not going to do that.
GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS HOST: Trump needs to have an alternative if Joe backs out. And I put it at 90 percent he's not going to debate.
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: Normally, a candidate challenging an incumbent pushes for as many debates as possible, not Joe Biden and not his supporters. They want him to stay hiding, and that's for good reason.
JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: Now, it's -- we're going to debate President Trump. Actually, Trump cheats. I don't think that's going to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: But what's funny about the president and his enabling propagandists at Fox, when it's time to pay up, when they are proven to be wrong, there is no accountability, there is no apology. They just drop it, like their absurd predictions never even happened. And then they move on to the next bogus B.S. that they cycle on repeat.
The irony here though is, it is not Biden who refused to show up to a debate.
[13:10:02]
It is Trump.
With me now is Carl Bernstein, our CNN Political Analyst, journalist and author. And, Carl, NBC says that if they move the event to a different time slot, they would be violating their agreement to give both candidates the same platform. I know you see it differently, so explain to us how you see it.
CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, first of all, it's nonsense. The idea of the debates and the town halls going back to John Kennedy, Richard Nixon, first presidential debates, is to give the people of the America, the voters, the largest possible audience to see these two candidates and what they have to say and to serve the democratic electoral process. And what NBC has done here is indefensible.
It could easily show this debate and schedule it for later in the evening. It could re-run it later in the evening. It could tape it, delay it, but what they have chosen to do, NBC, is to be conned by Donald Trump, and that is what has really raised the most serious journalistic questions and the reason that so many people who work at NBC and MSNBC are so upset by what NBC has done here, capitulating to Donald Trump's demands that will allow him to cut into Joe Biden's audience, essentially, because MSNBC, CNBC, these cable channels, ABC which is broadcasting Biden, has no similar cable channels. So, obviously, Trump will get the larger audience.
But the real thing is that NBC has capitulated to an absolutely unacceptable demand that serves the interest of one of the two candidates. there is absolutely no defense for this.
KEILAR: Does this stack the deck in favor of President Trump, in your view, or would you not go that far to say that?
BERNSTEIN: No, it stacks the deck against the American people by not giving all of us the opportunity to watch both debates at separate times. That's the problem with it. We can -- sure, we can watch reruns of it and all the rest, but there is no reason, whatsoever, going back to the purpose that these debates were founded on and the town halls that this can't be accommodated in a fair way.
No, I would think, in fact, that because NBC is so under the gun now that Savannah Guthrie, who is going to be the town hall moderator, I would hope and expect that she is going to be even tougher with Donald Trump because NBC is under a microscope now. And that also suggests --
KEILAR: Well, Carl, let me -- can I ask you about that. Because Savannah Guthrie is - -she is a good interviewer and she is a --
BERNSTEIN: That's what I said.
KEILAR: Yes. Like you said, she is a sharp lawyer. So, you know, in that way, you know, she's very -- she's talented in that way with asking questions and following up.
Do you expect that actually, you know, the president, this isn't going to be a cake walk for him and he could get some very tough questions?
BERNSTEIN: Of course, I expect that. But we got to go back to a basic question here. NBC News, one of the premier networks, has aggregated the public trust and for reasons that are absolutely inexplicable except commercial ones has allowed this presentation to go forward on this schedule, which serves the interests of one of the two candidates instead of the interest of the people of the United States.
I was the ABC bureau chief in Washington in 1980 and '81. And at the time, myself and the two other bureau chiefs from CBS and NBC established a rule that we would not take on our air events from the president of the United States, Carter and then Reagan, that had a political -- a sly political tinge. And the idea was that we would not be manipulated by the president into giving air time on the president's demands instead of journalistic principles.
And that precedent that we established back in 1980 with NBC News has now been aggregated by NBC News in such a way that they're going to be hurt by this. It's a shame, and they ought to take some actions over there and say, look, we're going to reschedule this thing even at this late hour. If Donald Trump walks and doesn't want to come on the air at a later time, then the hell with it.
But there is no journalistic reason, whatsoever, to undermine the interest of the people of the United States by favoring one candidate, which is what's happening here.
[13:15:18]
This is really going to enable Donald Trump to crow, oh, I got the better ratings and all the rest. This isn't about a rating contest. That's not what these debates and town halls are about. So, NBC ought to be really reconsidering their decision, even at this late hour because they have been conned and manipulated.
And let me add here, all of us in journalism, all the networks have been conned at one time or another by Donald Trump, but we've gotten smarter and we've gotten better at it.
And one other suggestion for both NBC, ABC, CNN, all of us, I think going forward in terms of fact-checking, maybe we need, and especially tonight, some kind of simultaneous fact checking, whether it's a crawl at the bottom of a screen when one of the candidates presents outrageous lies and falsehoods, we need to be calling it as quickly as we can in real-time. We're going to make up some new rules that serve the best attainable version of the truth instead of the interests of the candidates.
And Donald Trump has run roughshod over the truth, as we all know. That's his basic M.O., his basic methodology. And in the interest of journalistic principle, we need to alter the way we're covering these debates and town halls in the next couple weeks and all the appearances that we put on the air of both presidential candidates.
KEILAR: Carl Bernstein, thank you so much. It is always so good to see you.
BERNSTEIN: Good to be with you.
KEILAR: A bar owner who hosted a Donald Trump Jr. event is now suffering from a severe case of COVID and he says he wants to punch President Trump over his response to it. He's going to join me live next.
Plus, former President Obama emerges and responds to President Trump accusing him of treason.
And a super-spreading event and now dozens of men are refusing to cooperate, telling public officials they, quote, work for Satan.
This is CNN special live coverage.
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[13:20:00]
KEILAR: As the country continues to battle the coronavirus pandemic, there are stories about people's health as they battle this deadly virus, and there are stories about the economic and financial hardships.
Mark Schultz has been hit on both sides. He is the co-owner of Oblio's, which is a bar and restaurant in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, and he's been battling to keep his business afloat. Now, he's been battling for his life.
Schultz started feeling sick the same day that President Trump revealed he tested positive for coronavirus. Shortly after, he was hospitalized, he was struggling to breathe in a negative pressure ICU room and he started documenting his time in the hospital with a video diary.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK SCHULTZ, RESTAURANT OWNER BATTLING CORONAVIRUS: This really sucks. T.T. (ph), I love you so much. I don't know if I'm going to make it. I can't breathe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Mark Schultz is joining me now. Mark, you have been released from the hospital. Tell us how you are feeling now.
SCHULTZ: I'm feeling pretty good today. I've got an appointment to see my doctor later this afternoon. My oxygen levels, that's what they worry about before they release you, your oxygen level has got to be above 93 percent. And I was stable that way for eight hours before they released me. I just wanted to get the heck out of the hospital.
You got to fight this thing. You just can't lay there. One of your hosts, Chris Cuomo had the best remedy that I followed, fight. Lay on your stomach. You've got to fight this. This thing wants you to be lazy. It wants -- it gives you fatigue. That's the oxygen level. You got to fight. And I'm fighting.
Yesterday, I had a bad day. I couldn't catch my breath, and that's one of the reasons why I'm going to the doctor today, but I feel better today. It comes and it goes. This virus, it is smart. It attacks weakness. And we all got to take this thing very seriously. That's why I'm putting this out there.
I want -- it's an ugly virus. I have an ugly face. I want this -- the American public, this is real. This is not a hoax.
KEILAR: And, Mark, you, I know, have or had, I should say, three rules at your bar. You don't talk about politics. Don't talk about religion. Don't talk about someone's wife. But it seems like maybe it's time to add a fourth rule, which is that rules are meant to be broken because here you are talking about politics. What is your message to the president as you have a message as well to the American people? What do you want the president to know?
SCHULTZ: Well, whatever I say to the president, it's going to go in one ear and out the other. He doesn't want to hear from me. I'm doing this for the American people. This is what it's all about. He's a narcissist. Donald Trump is all about himself. He is not about for us.
[13:25:00]
He is about Donald Trump. So let's just move passed that. Let's concentrate on this virus.
We got to listen to Dr. Fauci. We got to listen to Dr. Richard Besser and Dr. Birx, science. Science is what's going to get us out of this. We don't have a plan. We haven't had a plan from day one. Basically, all 50 states were on their own, and that's wrong. We've got to step up as a team. We're the United States of America, not the divided states of America.
And we got to do this on all levels, local, state, federal. And the federal response has just been terrible. You know, these states have been on their own for PPE. You know, the state of Wisconsin is a hot spot right now. And we -- you know, they're inundated. I had a nurse from Texas. I had a nurse from Milwaukee in my room. You know, Oshkosh is a hot spot. There is not many beds left. Milwaukee, they set up a field hospital.
We have to do a better job, people. And that's -- and that comes from with us, masks, wear your masks, socially distance, wash your hands, sanitize. Please, people. These are simple things. You can't make it anymore simple than that. We'll get through this, but we've got to do it together. We can't have some people do it and some people not. It isn't going to work.
KEILAR: Mark, I just -- thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story. I really appreciate it.
SCHULTZ: You're very welcome, Brianna. Everybody be safe. Please, like I said, wear your masks.
KEILAR: Very important to hear from you, Mark. Thank you.
It is not just the U.S., there is a resurgence of the coronavirus that's happening all over the world now.
Plus, one of the men who led the Bin Laden raid will join me live to the president pushing a ridiculous QAnon conspiracy about it.
And the president, again, refuses to pledge to a peaceful transfer of power. We'll have that next.
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[13:30:00]
