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U.S. Reports Nearly 60,000 New Cases, Highest Level in Two Months; Europe Triggers Tighter Restrictions, Paris under Curfew; Obama Says, GOP has Allowed Trump to Politicize Justice System. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired October 15, 2020 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[07:00:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN NEW DAY: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is New Day.

Happy New Day to you, John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: Happy New Day. Are the stockings up or something?

CAMEROTA: No, but you have set the tone by playing music throughout this. And I hope you will for the rest of the program, because we need some levity, because hospitals in Wisconsin are running out of beds this morning. They're quickly filling up with coronavirus patients.

Wisconsin is having a particularly hard time getting their arms around this outbreak, but four other states are also seeing record hospitalizations.

Now, overnight, the U.S. reported nearly 60,000 new cases. That's the highest daily total since early August. Dr. Anthony Fauci is now warning all of us that we may need to steer clear of family gatherings on Thanksgiving.

Of course, that's not stopping President Trump from holding very large gatherings and defying the White House coronavirus task force. He held this rally in Iowa in front of thousands of people, a largely unmasked crowd. In Iowa, one in five people tested are now testing positive for the virus.

BERMAN: Just think about that for a second though. Dr. Fauci is basically telling us we might have to cancel Thanksgiving, but the president is appearing with thousands of people in a packed rally. Just think about that.

More than 14 million Americans have already cast their ballots. We saw another day of very long lines for early voting across the country.

Former President Barack Obama speaking out in a new interview about President Trump and Joe Biden. The former president expected to hit the campaign trail for Biden next week. Let's begin though with the pandemic. CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins me now. And, Sanjay, maybe it's because you trained me, it's the hospitalization numbers that we have seen every morning that have so troubled me over the last week. If you look at the national chart, and you can see, it has bottomed out and it is now going up and is going up more steeply by the day.

We have five states that are seeing record hospitalizations, including Wisconsin. We're going to talk to a Wisconsin doc next hour who says he's been working at several hospitals that are already running out of beds. So why does this trouble you?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, you know, hospitalizations are, I think, a truer assessment of what's going on here. We've always sort of used testing, you know, as an idea of what's happening. But, you know, even now, you know, if you look at the numbers on the right side of the screen, you can probably multiply them times five to get a better sense of how many people out there have been infected over the last several months.

So we still undertest, but when people then become hospitalized with COVID, that's going to be a much truer assessment of what's going on.

The big question is, and this is the same question, the same dialogue we were having back in March and April, which is, are we ready for what is potentially going to come? And seems increasingly likely is going to come in terms of patients needing hospital bed.

So I think we have this graphic looking around the country and sort of saying, okay, what is the capacity, what can we deal with right now in terms of overall hospital beds? And what you find is that more states than not are already, the darker the color here, are already beyond 70 percent full.

Now, what is normal around this time of year, maybe closer to 60 percent. So it's not that much dramatically different, but it's not even really in the flu season as of yet. You add into that coronavirus, this twindemic that people talk about, it's a concern.

Where I'm living in Georgia, we're 89 percent full already. So you can imagine as you start to get a lot more patients here, what are you going to do? Similar situation as to what they're talking about in Wisconsin, trying to build that surge capacity.

And one other thing, John, you say we bottomed out with regards to hospitalizations. Of course, we didn't bottom out, we just came to the lowest level that we have come in the last couple of months.

I just want to show you, to that point, 1918 again, I have shown this graphic a couple times over the last several of months. But when we look at 1918 and look at these waves, that where the idea of waves came from, they really did bottom out in terms of cases and I know that they really came low in terms of hospitalizations and overall deaths as well.

But look at what happened there in the second wave. That was the concerning one. That was October. And they had close to 200,000 people die in a single month during that time, 195,000 people. So that's why going into the fall, historically, looking at what could happen, hopefully doesn't, that's what they're trying to avoid.

CAMEROTA: Sanjay, I want to ask you about Thanksgiving. Because Dr. Fauci weighed in on this and he basically said that his family has already made the decision. Already, his three adult children will not be coming home, as they normally do. They have already decided not to.

So let me just play for you what he said about the rest of our families.

[07:05:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: It is unfortunate, because that's such a sacred part of American tradition, the family gathering around Thanksgiving. But that is a risk.

You may have to bite the bullet and sacrifice that social gathering, unless you are pretty certain that the people that you're dealing with are not infected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Aha, he gave me an opening. Because I'm in denial, as John can tell you. So isn't there a way to do it safely, where if everybody gets tested right before they're all going to get together, they could maybe still do it?

GUPTA: Possibly, yes. I mean, I don't want to be absolutist about this. And, by the way, we're having the same conversation in our family as well. My parents are in their mid to late 70s, they live in Florida, they would love to come see the grandkids. Can't we just get tested? And we know that testing is not the solution to everything, because people can have false negatives and testing doesn't prevent you from getting the illness, but, Alisyn, yes.

And we could have been in a very different spot in this country by this point if we had widespread easily available testing to a point where, you know, the NBA had it, you know, the White House has it, where you could do even daily testing as needed. So we're not there.

But is it possible that people could get tested, you know, what is it now, middle of October, 14 days at least before Thanksgiving, get tested again right beforehand, then potentially spend Thanksgiving with their family? Yes. It's a lot of steps to go through. And if you're living in an area where you have a lot of viral dynamics, you might be exposed in the interim.

So it's possible. It's going to take a lot of work this year in order to make it happen. If you can do it outside, if you live in a warmer weather state, great. if you live somewhere cooler and you can really open up windows and allow a lot of ventilation. Again, visualizing this virus like clouds of smoke, wafting that smoke away, making it a lot less likely for people to become infected. Yes, it's possible.

But we could have been in a very different position right now had we done testing, had we been able to bring the viral loads way down in this country.

CAMEROTA: Yes. I mean, it's like the constant testing -- sorry to interrupt, but it's not like the constant testing at the White House prevented an outbreak.

GUPTA: Right, it doesn't prevent the outbreak. But in a situation like this, if you can be really diligent about it, like they did, again, with the NBA, they tested people 14 days before they came into the bubble, tested them again when they arrived there and then started testing, as soon as somebody tested positive, they got isolated, all the things that we talk about.

BERMAN: Look, I appreciate your both being glass half full about this. I don't think that's the thrust of what Dr. Fauci was talking about. I think Dr. Fauci was trying to gently tell us that this isn't safe to get together with our families, extended families, on Thanksgiving. I think he's trying to ease us into it and will be saying it more and more, I think, forcefully over the next few days.

But, Alisyn, you're in here with me every day. I mean, you can get tested every day, but what about me? I mean, what about everyone in here? It's not -- I don't think we should be sending the signal to people that --

CAMEROTA: That I don't care about you?

BERMAN: -- that there are all of these ways to do it, when, in fact, I think what Dr. Fauci saying is this is dangerous. It's dangerous.

CAMEROTA: And you're not thinking about other people?

BERMAN: And you're not the NBA. If you're going testing now, you've got to go into --

CAMEROTA: What do you mean, I'm not the NBA?

BERMAN: -- a 14-day bubble, you're going to go into 14-day bubble before Thanksgiving?

CAMEROTA: No. I mean, I appreciate Sanjay telling me all of the steps, because when you hear all of those steps, it becomes actually a little too onerous to do it. It's just easier to say, okay, so this year, we're not going to do it.

BERMAN: Anyway, it's tough.

CAMEROTA: Sanjay, thanks for witnessing this family squabble that John and I are having. Thanks for being here and trying to mediate it.

GUPTA: I know.

CAMEROTA: Great to see you. GUPTA: You got it. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: The pandemic is also getting worse overseas. The United Kingdom's health secretary telling parliament moments ago that the spike in cases there are grave and serious. The mayor of London just announced that the city is preparing to ban people from mixing with other households indoors.

Germany also reporting a record increase in new coronavirus cases. Chancellor Angela Merkel restricted to social gatherings to just ten people in public and in private.

And in France, a 9:00 P.M. curfew will go into effect this Saturday in Paris and a number of other cities.

So, joining us now is Maria Van Kerkhove. She is the World Health Organization's Technical Lead on this pandemic and an infectious disease epidemiologist. Ms. Van Kerkhove, thank you very much for being here.

Can you just explain what's happening in Europe? Because so many countries there felt that they had licked the problem, they had flattened the curve, which would suggest that the virus was not kind of circulating around as much. And now that so many are having to go into these lockdown measures, what happened?

MARIA VAN KERKHOVE, CORONAVIRUS TECHNICAL LEAD, WHO HEALTH EMERGENCIES PROGRAMME: Well, thanks, Alisyn, for having me on again. Yes, we are certainly seeing a very concerning situation across Europe, where we're seeing a resurgence, we're seeing an increase in transmission and a large number of countries across the region.

[07:10:03]

In fact, about 80 percent of countries across the European regions are seeing a growth right now.

But the thing that we need to really understand is, as you've pointed out, many of the countries have brought these pandemics, these outbreaks under control and they can do it again. Now is the time. We must come together and use the tools that we have at hand.

We are in a completely different situation than we were in a few months ago. We know so much more about this virus, how to control the virus. We need to stay focused, we need to have unity across the region, across the world, in fact, to be able to apply the tools that we have at hand where we can bring these outbreaks under control.

And as you pointed out earlier in your show, it's not just the cases that we're worried about. We're seeing a large increase in hospitalizations, we're seeing an increase in ICU rates across a number of countries. But it's not uniform across every country and every city. There are hot spots. And so what we need to do is target the interventions to where they are needed most and we can do this.

And I think that's the message, is that even though people are really becoming tired of this and wanting to get back to, quote, unquote, normal, our new normal means we are going to have to be living with this for some time and make some sacrifices, but put the work in to be able to bring these outbreaks under control.

CAMEROTA: Ms. Van Kerkhove, I don't know if you can this graphic, if we put it up on the screen, but I'd still like to show it because it jumped out at me. This is the deaths in Europe, the past week versus the previous week. Let me show you. Those are the cases. Here we go. It's hard not to see that there is country in green, which means the deaths have gone down, and that's Sweden.

Then, of course, Sweden has gotten a lot of attention because they did things a little differently, I think. They still had restrictions, it wasn't a total free-for-all there, but they kept restaurants and, I think, stores and stuff open. Is there any reason that you can explain why Sweden would be having fewer deaths right now?

VAN KERKHOVE: No. What I can say is, in terms of mortality, we have definitely seen a reduction in mortality over time, and that's for a number of reasons. I mean, first of all, surveillance has increased, so we're picking up people on the more mild end of the spectrum. We're also preventing outbreaks from happening in long-term living facilities.

And many countries have seen, unfortunately, the virus entering long- term living facilities with devastating effects. We're doing better on this end, but although we still need to make sure that the virus doesn't enter those situations. We're also much better at treating patients.

So with finding cases earlier with rapid detection, they enter the clinical pathway much sooner. They have their oxygen saturation checked very quickly, they're administered oxygen if necessary, they're given dexamethasone if they have severe or critical disease. All of that saves lives.

Our frontline workers, our doctors are better trained, better experienced with this virus. And so we're doing much better at actually preventing people from advancing to severe disease and preventing people from dying. So I think there're a number of reasons.

But make no mistake --

CAMEROTA: Yes. But I guess my question is --

VAN KERKHOVE: -- if we don't prevent the cases, then those can lead to further deaths down the road.

CAMEROTA: Understood. I guess my question is about the different approaches that different -- it wasn't one-size-fits-all. There were different approaches. And I'm wondering if one worked better than the other. And part of the reason I asked is because, this week, there has been information here in the U.S. that the White House is leaning towards a so-called herd immunity approach, which is more of a let her rip approach, and that's something that President Trump seems to have approached. And so I was wondering if you have been able to tell which approach has worked best.

VAN KERKHOVE: With this idea of herd immunity, this is a phrase that's used when you use vaccination, when you vaccinate a certain amount of the population to be able to protect the rest of the population that isn't able to get that vaccine.

Herd immunity, as an approach, by letting the virus circulate, is dangerous. It leads to unnecessary cases and it leads to unnecessary deaths. Our director general and many of us have been speaking about this, that this is not a strategy for this virus, because there is so much that we can do.

What I think countries are doing, and you pointed this out, there is no one-size-fits-all on how the actions and the interventions need to be used, but there are a series of tools that we have that everyone is using, even Sweden is using in terms of physical distancing, across Europe, across the United States.

What we need to make sure is that not only do governments have clear, strong approaches, but that individuals know, are empowered, are educated and enabled to actually carry out many of these actions. If there are stay-at-home orders or if somebody is asked to work from home, they need to be supported in doing so. If people cannot be -- if cases cannot be isolated in medical facilities and they need to be isolated at home, they need to be cared for and checked up on and make sure that they don't infect their families.

[07:15:01]

There's so much that can be done. But the way that they are tailored, the way that they are used and targeted needs to be specific to the country, needs to be specific to look at the demographics of the country, the way that people live. If you live in a single-family home, which many people in Sweden do, versus multi-generational homes, there's lots of considerations that need to be taken into account when you talk about the approach that's used. But there are so many tools that have to be used.

And even the alarming situations that we're seeing across much of Europe, in the United States as well, it can be turned around. We need to think about what we need to do as individuals and how each of the decisions that we make can actually contribute to bringing this pandemic to an end.

CAMEROTA: Thank you for all of those reminders and all of the information. Maria Van Kerkhove, we appreciate having you on New Day.

VAN KERKHOVE: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Former President Barack Obama preparing to hit the road to campaign for Joe Biden. Hear what he has to say about the Republican Party and President Trump in this very new interview. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:20:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I think a very important question after the election, even if it goes well with Joe Biden, is whether you start seeing the Republican Party restore some sense of norms that we can't breach, because he's breached all of them. And they have not said to him, this is too far.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: That's a brand-new interview with former President Barack Obama on the podcast, Pod Save America, blasting Republicans for allowing the president to politicize the justice system. The former president expected to campaign for Joe Biden next week.

Joining us now, CNN Political Commentator Scott Jennings, he was a special assistant to President George W. Bush. And also with us is David Litt, former speechwriter for President Obama, and the author of Democracy in One Book or Less.

So, David, I want to start with you. Because one of the things that I think has been a little bit accepted in our political history is that Barack Obama is an incredible campaigner for himself. He has won his elections that he has run for himself very big, hasn't always been as successful campaigning for others, whether it be in midterm elections or for Hillary Clinton last time. So where do you think and how do you think the former president will be most effective and did you hear that at all in this interview last night?

DAVID LITT, FORMER SPEECHWRITER FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, first of all, thank you for having me on this morning. And let me say, we're in a pretty remarkable situation where the most trusted figure in American politics is Michelle Obama and the second-most trusted figure in American politics is Michelle Obama's husband, Barack Obama.

And so both have a really unique authority to speak to the American people, not just Democrats at this point, but also independents and Republicans, about what this job takes, about what the kind of character of someone who should be having this job ought to be, and then also about who Joe Biden is. All of that makes them particularly good surrogates this year in the next couple of weeks in particular.

And one of the things I noticed, you mentioned that President Obama was on a podcast, my former speechwriting colleagues, Pod Save America. And he's speaking directly to some of the most engaged, active, most likely volunteers in the Democratic Party. So he's able to reach Democrats directly and it's not just about sending a message, it's also about moving up engagement, getting that extra volunteer shift, getting people to call up their friend in a swing state and get them to vote early.

So you're seeing all of these avenues that President Obama can use, combined with that unique credibility and trust, combined with a year that if the polls are right, is starting to break Democrats' way pretty heavily. I think you add all of those things together and you can see why both of the Obamas make such a good pair of closers.

CAMEROTA: Scott, I know, as a Republican, you're not in the business of giving Joe Biden advice or political strategy, but do you think there is a way for the Biden campaign to deploy President Obama, in a way, to a demographic that Joe Biden isn't hitting?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, I'll give anybody advice. I mean -- and it's worth what you paid for it, so just keep that in mind. Number two, yes, of course, I mean, Barack Obama, Michelle Obama, the Obamas, popular people, very articulate in laying out the stakes of an election. I mean, they're far more articulate in some ways than Joe Biden is in laying out what they want to see for the future of country. So anytime you have popular, powerful, well-known, popular surrogates, it's better than a sharp stick in the eye. And so I think Biden needs those kinds of people.

I'm not sure how much of an impact he'll have. I mean, Barack Obama has been a feature of every federal election since 2004. He's done well for himself, as John pointed out, he has not done very well for others. I would say if I were the Democratic president that had created the conditions in this country that led to Donald Trump becoming the president, I would probably be campaigning 24 hours a day too. Heck, I would probably be in therapy. And so I'm not surprised to see them out on the campaign trail.

And I think turnout and enthusiasm in both party's bases is pretty jacked already. So I think it's a great thing to have to drive news cycles. Will it cause a single person to turn out that wasn't already going to turn out, I'm not so sure about that.

BERMAN: Speaking of jacked, let's talk about money. Scott was excited there for a second.

CAMEROTA: Yes, I saw that.

BERMAN: It's about money, neither of us. Look at the fundraising haul that was announced by the Biden campaign last night, $383 million in September. And it's the number on the right that really matters, which is $423 million cash on hand at the beginning of October.

[07:25:01]

David, that is an enormous sum of money, one that actually it will be challenging to figure out how to spend it all effectively.

What does that tell you when you have a challenger -- and we don't know President Trump's fundraising number yet, but based on the last month, it may be a safe assumption, it's not as high as the Biden team. What does that tell you?

LITT: Well, John, if you remember, the Trump campaign was supposed to be the Death Star. They called it the Death Star. And, apparently, the Rebel Alliance has arrived and they brought reinforcements. I mean, what we're seeing is an enormous amount of support.

And one of the most important numbers within that number is the percentage of those donations that come from small donor donors, who can give again before the end of this election cycle and also from people who represent not just a couple of big names writing a couple of checks, but represent enthusiasm for the candidate.

So I think what you are seeing is an incredible eagerness. You're seeing the same thing with early voting where Democrats are -- they have been waiting for four very long years to do something to turn the page on President Trump, and they're jumping at the chance. And I think that coupled, by the way, with the fact that Joe Biden, lots of people, including on this network, will say, well, he's not a great campaigner. Look at those fundraising numbers, he's running a very impressive campaign

CAMEROTA: Scott, feel free to comment on fundraising. And also I just wanted to touch that Republican governor of Massachusetts, Charlie Baker, has announced through a statement that he will not be voting for President Trump. No surprise, but just wondering your thoughts on that.

JENNINGS: Yes. Well, the fundraising story is far more important than Governor Baker, who is obviously not a fan of Donald Trump. I'm old enough to remember, by the way, when Democrats were the party that said, money and politics was evil. Now, I mean, look, at the presidential level, at the Senate level, congressional campaigns, Democrats have all the money. They have unlimited money. You look at what's happening for Biden and for Jaime Harrison in South Carolina, for Mark Kelly, all of these Senate races and congressional races, unlimited amount of money. You'll never be able to spend it all, and so all the voices that told us that money is evil in politics have suddenly gone very quiet.

Now, I celebrate money in politics and I think it's perfectly fine for people to spend money in politics. And I think if there's a message in all of this, it's to Republican and conservative donors, and that is, when you get mad about something and you're upset about policy, don't run to Facebook and post some ornery message. Pull out your wallet and give money, because that's what the Democrats have figured out how to do, and God bless them. They have absolutely figured out the small dollar fundraising game in a way the Republicans haven't. And I suspect it's going to make a big difference in all of the federal elections this fall.

BERMAN: All right. Scott Jennings, David Litt, thank you both so much for being with us. I appreciate it.

So the pandemic has hit small businesses so hard, particularly restaurants and hotels. What do the workers there need now with so much pain on the horizon?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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