Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Stark Contrast Between Biden and Trump Town Halls; Trump Evades Straight Answers in Combative Town Hall; Biden Goes Heavy on Policy at Town Hall in Philadelphia; Trump on QAnon: "I Know Nothing About It"; Biden Promises Clarity Before Election Day on Court Packing; U.S. Reports Nearly 60,000 New COVID-19 Cases; Washington Deadlocked on New Virus Relief Measures. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired October 16, 2020 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to you, our viewers joining us in the United States, Canada and all around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber and you're watching CNN NEWSROOM.

Just ahead, the candidates vying for the U.S. presidency appearing in separate town halls. Each setting a very different tone. So, we'll get you caught up on the key moments.

Also, this hour, a worrying glimpse into what the coming months could look like with COVID cases hit highs in states across the U.S.

And defiance as cases surge in Europe. Local leaders in one city are rejecting strict new measures by the Prime Minister.

On the night when Joe Biden and Donald Trump were supposed to share the same stage for their second debate, the two presidential candidates instead held competing town halls on rival television networks at the same time. You'll see the sharp contrast between them for yourself in just a moment.

For Biden, the format was familiar territory, to talk policy, although sometimes he avoided straight answers. When the event was over, he stayed to talk with voters off camera, and in contrast, that with the President.

President Trump was much more combative, his responses to pointed questions about the pandemic, white supremacy, conspiracy theories and other issues were largely defensive and peppered with falsehoods. Now if voters were hoping to find out what President Trump plans to do if he wins a second term, they were probably disappointed. We get more from CNN's Jim Acosta in Miami.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The voters did not get a lot of straight answers from President Trump during that town hall that took the place of a presidential debate with Joe Biden. Given multiple opportunities to denounce the false conspiracy theory QAnon, the President evaded the question and simply would not say what he thought about the group. Here is more of what he had to say.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE U.S.: I know nothing about it. I do know they are very much against pedophilia. They fight it very hard. But I know nothing about it.

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC ANCHOR: They believe it is a satanic cult run by the deep states.

TRUMP: If you like me to study the subject -- I tell you what I do know about. I know about Antifa, I know about the radical left. I know how violent they are and how vicious they are, and I know how they are burning down cities run by Democrats, not run by Republicans.

GUTHRIE: Republican Senator Ben Sasse said, quote, QAnon is nuts and real leaders call conspiracy theories, conspiracy theories.

TRUMP: He may be right.

GUTHRIE: Why not just say it's crazy and not true?

TRUMP: Can I be honest: He may be right. I just don't know about QAnon.

GUTHRIE: You do know.

TRUMP: I don't know. No, I don't know.

ACOSTA: And the President also gave evasive answers on health care, abortion, even his own personal income taxes.

But perhaps the biggest missed opportunity of the night for the voters was when the President would not say when his last negative coronavirus test was, leaving open the possibility that he walked into that last presidential debate with Joe Biden potentially symptomatic for COVID-19.

Jim Acosta, CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: Biden faced plenty of tough questions in Philadelphia in a town hall moderated by George Stephanopoulos of ABC News. As we mentioned, the former vice president stuck around after the event to keep talking with voters. And while his responses were heavy on policy, there were a few times he chose to dodge, rather than give a straight answer. CNN's Arlette Saenz reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Over the course of a 90- minute town hall here in Philadelphia, Joe Biden faced a range of questions, from how to handle the coronavirus pandemic to the economy and even his support for the 1994 Crime Bill. This was a heavily policy-focused discussion, as he faced questions from a mix of undecided voters and people who've already made up their minds about supporting Biden or Trump.

And one of the most noteworthy exchanges came during a discussion about the issue of court packing. Joe Biden has deflected when asked about adding more justices to the Supreme Court for weeks now. And he offered a bit more of a detailed answer in this town hall. Take a listen.

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not a fan. I then say it depends on how this turns out. I am open to considering what happens from that point on.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ANCHOR, ABC NEWS: You know, you said so many times during the campaign, all through the course of your career, it is important to level --

BIDEN: It is, but George, if I say -- no matter what answer I gave you, if I say it, that is the headline tomorrow. It won't be about what is going on now. The improper way they are proceeding.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But don't voters have a right to know where you stand?

BIDEN: They do have a right to know where I stand. They have a right to know where I stand before they vote.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So, you will come out with a clear position before Election Day?

BIDEN: Yes.

[04:05:00]

SAENZ: So Biden there not completely ruling out the possibility of adding more justices to the Supreme Court, saying he wants to see how the nomination with Amy Coney Barrett moves forward and will give voters a bit more of an answer, closer to Election Day.

Now Biden also criticized President Trump for his handling of the coronavirus pandemic. And he was asked about a coronavirus vaccine, whether it should be mandated. Biden said that there should be a discussion about making it mandatory but acknowledged that there could be legal issues with actually implementing that.

But overall, Biden stayed very policy focused as he was presenting his agenda for a Biden administration, offering a contrast to the President, without the President even being on that stage.

Now on Friday, Joe Biden is heading to Michigan, where he will have two stops in that critical battleground state as early voting is underway and he is trying to get people to head out and vote. Back to you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: After the town hall, Biden's running mate, California Senator Kamala Harris spoke with CNN. When asked about adding justices to the Supreme Court, she argued that Republicans have been packing the court for years under President Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA) U.S. VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I think that Joe Biden has been consistent on saying this is not the time right now to have this discussion.

I'm sorry but I can't have a conversation about court packing around something that has not even happened yet, which is who is going to be the next president without dealing with what they've been doing for the last few years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Harris cancelled travel plans after two people linked to the campaign tested positive for COVID-19. She and her husband both tested negative Thursday.

Well, at their town halls, both candidates were asked about their personal COVID testing regimens. Their answers Biden just showed how different the two men are. Biden confirmed daily testing and described the test he usually takes. Mr. Trump wouldn't give specific details and he refused to say whether he had taken a test before the first presidential debate days before he was hospitalized with the virus.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUTHRIE: Did you take a test on the day of the debate, I guess, is the bottom line.

TRUMP: Probably did and I took a test the day before and the before and I was always in great shape. And I was in great shape for the debate.

GUTHRIE: Do you take a test every single day?

TRUMP: No, no, but I take a lot of tests.

GUTHRIE: OK. And you don't know if you took a test the day of the debate?

TRUMP: Possibly I did, possibly I didn't.

BIDEN: By the way, before I came up here, I took another test. I've been taking it every day and the deep test. You know (INAUDIBLE) and because I wanted to be able -- if I had not passed that test, I didn't want to come here, and you know, expose anybody. And I just think it's just decency.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: So, as we heard in Jim Acosta's report, President Trump refused during his town hall in Miami to denounce the group QAnon, which the FBI calls a domestic terror threat. So last hour, I spoke with this about Leslie Vinjamuri of Chatham House in London. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LESLIE VINJAMURI, HEAD, U.S. AND THE AMERICAS PROGRAMME, CHATHAM HOUSE: The words of the president speak miles to those who are listening and for QAnon and for permission.

So, yes, it's certainly a distraction for him if he's trying to get that 5 percent of the electorate that hasn't fully decided who they intent to vote for. If he's trying to persuade them that this is a president who will ensure security and safety in America streets, then I think that that's a distraction.

But it's far more potentially damaging and destabilizing, because it sends a signal to certain groups that they -- that the President is granting them permission to remain active.

BRUNHUBER: All right, let's turn to Biden, now. Why this sort of waffly middle ground of not taking a firm position on court packing until later?

VINJAMURI: Yes, this has been very interesting. And we saw also the vice-presidential nominee, Kamala Harris, in the debates with Mike Pence, also deflect this question. They've clearly wanted to watch and see the hearings for Amy Coney Barrett to judge the public sentiment, to see how critically the Senate will move towards a confirmation. All of these are critical questions.

But you know, what we did hear last night is that there will be that Vice President Biden will make a decision before those debates -- before the election. So, there is a commitment. But it is true that they haven't wanted to very clearly say what their position yet, is.

And this is a very important, very important issue, obviously, for Democratic Party voters, very important issue for Trump's base. America is very polarized. They feel very passionately about social issues in very different ways. And the Supreme Court is the lightning rod for that social division in America.

BRUNHUBER: Absolutely. Well there's no question looking at them that of the two town halls, I guess, the president got the greater grilling from the moderator. We saw the Trump campaign tweet about it after. It's all they were talking about on Fox, that and Hunter Biden, I guess, so.

[04:10:00]

Will his supporters see this town hall as the real debate? The debate Trump is engaged with every day a debate, not against Biden, but against the left-wing press intent on destroying him. This, you know, watching this would just confirm everything that they knew, that the establishment is against him, and maybe it'll further encourage them to rally the wagons?

VINJAMURI: I -- you know, I think that that is beyond a shadow of a doubt. That is the narrative has really taken hold for several years now. It's not new that the President hasn't been given a fair platform, that he has been attacked by the media.

We've seen this -- I don't think it's going to change anything to do with the turnout or voting. It might drive more people to be sure that they vote for -- remember, that we are on track for a record turnout in the United States.

David Wassermann of the Cook Political Report is anticipating between 150 and 160 million Americans will turn out to vote. That's one up from 137 million in 2016. So, people are already passionate. They are passionate on both sides. But absolutely, his supporters will see him as being attacked again. It will drive turnout.

And a lot of what's happening right now on both sides of that aisle is about ensuring that people stand in those very, very long lines, that they mail-in their ballots, that they exercise their right to vote. It's incredibly important, but it's also important for the candidates to ensure that people do turn out and vote.

Because remember, as I said before, there's only about 5 percent of the electorate that haven't made up their minds. For most people, it's just about ensuring that they do actually vote.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: And our thanks to Leslie Vinjamuri for her analysis there.

U.S. coronavirus cases are definitely headed in the wrong direction. Since Sunday, 21 states have hit their peak 7-day average of the new cases since the pandemic began, and now an influential model predicts there could be more than 390,000 virus deaths in the country by February, and that's slightly lower than the previous forecast. But the harsh reality is in just over three months, as many as 170,000 more Americans could be dead.

CNN's Nick Watt has more from Los Angeles.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICARDO AGUIRRE, LOST BUSINESS AND SEVERAL FAMILY MEMBERS TO COVID-19: I feel very incompetent.

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This virus destroyed Ricardo Aguirre's business. It killed eight family members, including his father.

AGUIRRE: We did everything together.

WATT: And nearly 60,000 new COVID-19 infections across America yesterday, highest tally in a couple of months.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is now unconscionable, this late into the outbreak.

WATT: The Atlanta Falcons won't practice today after a positive test, and perhaps the biggest name in college sports is now COVID positive.

NICK SABAN, UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA HEAD FOOTBALL COACH: I'm feel fine. I felt fine. I was very surprised, you know, by this.

WATT: These are the nationwide daily case counts. Bad in the spring, worse in the summer, rising again, and rising fast, a call to arms in NYC, our one-time epicenter.

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D) NEW YORK CITY: Simple as this crucial week. This is the week to stop the second wave.

WATT: This week, 21 states logged their highest average daily case counts ever.

GOV. JARED POLIS (D) COLORADO: We've got get these numbers down. And if this trend continues, our hospital capacity will be in jeopardy.

WATT: In just a week, the number of COVID-19 patients in the hospitals in Indiana jumped 25 percent, in Ohio, 28 percent, in Delaware, 30 percent, in Minnesota, 32 percent, in Wisconsin, more COVID-19 patients in the hospital now than ever.

DR. ASHOK RAI, PRESIDENT AND CEO, PREVEA HEALTH: If there is a major car accident today in Green Bay, between all of the hospitals, we wouldn't be able to take care of it.

WATT: But advisers to our president reportedly promoting herd immunity AKA let it rip.

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I think that we just got to that square in the eye and say it's nonsense.

MARIA VAN KERKHOVE, W.H.O. HEALTH EMERGENCIES PROGRAM: It leads to unnecessary cases and at least to unnecessary deaths.

WATT: What might have been? New Zealand, a small island nation, granted, but 25 deaths total. Why? Quick action, real border closures, and nationwide lockdown, strong test and trace, this, according to a new study, in the Lancet.

Here, cases are rising, temperatures are falling. Some say the first wave never ended. Here comes the second. So, Thanksgiving?

FAUCI: You may have to bite the bullet and sacrifice that social gathering.

WATT (on camera): Before the Thanksgiving holiday here in the U.S., of course, it is Halloween.

[04:15:00]

And Beverly Hills now one of the first cities in the country to ban trick or treating. And they say they will not be out there hunting for kids wearing costumes. But if you are caught trick or treating or caught giving candy to a stranger, you may get a 100-dollar fine.

Nick Watt, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: Former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie is revealing just how seriously ill he was with coronavirus, and he's warning people to take the virus very seriously. In a statement released on Thursday, Christie said he was in intensive care for seven days. His statement referred to the Supreme Court nominating event he attended last month at the White House.

It read in part, I believed that when I entered the White House grounds that I had entered a safe zone due to the testing that I and many others underwent every day. I was wrong. I hope my experience shows my fellow citizens that you should follow CDC guidelines and wear a mask to protect yourself and others.

A second coronavirus waver is bringing infection rates not seen before in this pandemic. Coming up, we'll go live to several cities in Europe to find out how severe it's getting, and new restrictions taken to fight it.

And Washington is split on an economic stimulus plan even as millions of Americans struggle during the pandemic. We'll look at what the government is doing to help them and what's standing in the way. Stay with us.

[04:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRUNHUBER: Families across America are in urgent need of help during this coronavirus pandemic but the economic relief that could help them is facing a deadlock in Washington. Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell says he has no plans to bring to the floor a $1.8 trillion stimulus package. The White House is floating and instead intends to hold a vote on the $500 billion one that the White House and Democrats reject. Last night Joe Biden said help hasn't been given to the right people and ordinary Americans are paying the price.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The President had an opportunity to open and allow schools and businesses to stay open if they got the kind of help, they needed. So, the Congress passed a couple trillion dollars worth of help and what happened was most of that money, a significant portion of that money went to the very wealthiest corporations in the country. Didn't get to the mom and pop stores. So, you had one in five, one in six minority businesses closing, many of them permanently.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: In turn, Donald Trump has blamed House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and China for the current situation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And you know who I'm negotiating against, Nancy Pelosi, because she doesn't want to give the money. We should have stimulus. This was not our people's fault. This was China's fault, and she's penalizing our people. I'm ready to sign a big beautiful stimulus. You saw the other day, I said go big or go home. Right? I want it to be big. I want it to be bold. I want the money to go directly to the people.

GUTHRIE: OK, but so far ...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: An economic proposal of this scale has ramifications not just in the U.S. but globally too. John Defterios is following the story from Abu Dhabi.

John, the White House wants to blame this log jam on Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats. I'm sure Pelosi is taking some heat from some within in her own party for turning her back on the latest offer. But the reverse is true as well. Eight that the President can't get enough support from Republicans.

JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN BUSINESS EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Yes, it is a bit of both, Kim, but the Senate Republicans are the roadblock to getting a much bigger stimulus package out, and they're doing so traditionally as they are now because of budget prudence, if you will. They're very concerned that the U.S. is going to climb above 100 percent of debt for GDP for the first time ever, and they say this is the time to reign that in.

So, Senator Mitch McConnell is having difficult building any support beyond -- as you heard from him -- beyond a half trillion dollars as opposed to now. Look at what's on the table, 1.8 trillion from the White House, 2.2 from the House. You can close the gap but can't get it through the Senate. Here's the difficulty for President Trump. And the other side of it is even because we have the debt to GDP that's so high, the U.S. Federal Reserve Board Chairman and regional bank president said you need the stimulus before we get the vaccines on to the market or we're going to see the economy sputter.

And this is the number one challenge going forward into the polls on November 3rd. The U.S. President opened up the swing states very early to get them growing again, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin. They're getting hit with a huge case load and their economies are starting to stall.

So, the big question mark going into the polls on November 3rd, Kim, I think, does the President get blamed for mismanagement of the front end of COVID-19. He spent a lot to get the unemployment rate from 14.7 down to 7.8. But did he reopen the economies too early. And people are going to say, look, you did mismanage COVID-19, and they link it to the economy. So far that hasn't happened, but it's a very tight poll right now in the swing states. And right now, Vice President Biden's up by very marginal ways. But he's getting credit for health management for the future. The President getting credit for the economic recovery so far. That's why it's such a fierce battle.

BRUNHUBER: Yes, as you say, so much rides on that question for the election. Thank you so much, John Defterios in Abu Dhabi. Appreciate it. President Trump once again sent conflicting signals about whether he'd

agree to a peaceful transfer of power if he loses the election. This town hall on NBC he said he would as long as the vote is, quote, honest. But as our Pam Brown reports, he's also been repeating debunked voting claims casting doubt on the election process.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: They always talk about the friendly transition.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The President is doubling down on his refusal to commit to a peaceful transfer of power if he loses to Joe Biden.

TRUMP: I'm not saying anything. I'm saying this, I think everybody says it, you have to have a fair election.

[04:25:00]

BROWN: With the outcome of the election possibly not known on election day, the President is trying to sow doubt in the election, also falsely claiming the ballots are being thrown out only because they're votes for them.

TRUMP: They don't want to send in the ballots and have the ballots thrown away into a dumpster. Who are you for? Trump. Get rid of that one. Get rid -- this is the craziest thing. And we will check in every one of them. We're watching very closely, where they come from. Where they went. How did they get there, right? All this stuff that's going on.

BROWN: At this point, there isn't any evidence that ballots with votes for Trump are intentionally being tossed, but most states taking extra steps to assure voters they are doing everything they can to protect the integrity of the election.

But a new court ruling is causing election officials in North Carolina to scramble as early voting there is now underway. A federal judge handed Democrats a win, upholding a policy allowing ballots that arrive through November 12 to be counted if they were mailed on or before election day.

The same judge also is handing Republicans a win in a ruling that makes it harder for voters to fix absentee ballots with missing signatures. Both rulings may be appealed.

Nearly 18 million Americans have already voted. This according to data from 46 states. So far, the states with the most ballot returns, Florida, Texas and California.

Pamela Brown, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: After impeachment proceedings against the U.S. President began last year, President Trump was reported warned that his personal attorney was being used to transmit Russian misinformation. According to "The Washington Post," the President was told by U.S. intelligence that Rudy Giuliani was targeted by Russia while in Ukraine. The apparent intent was to get Giuliani to pass that misinformation directly to Mr. Trump. But after the President was warned, one former official recalls Mr. Trump shrugging and saying that's Rudy.

Europe seeing a troubling rise in COVID cases. Health experts and governments are scrambling to contain the surge, and some are facing criticism. So, we'll go live to the U.K., France and Italy to get the latest on the fight against the virus.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[04:30:00]