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GOP Senator Ben Sasse Unloads on President Trump in Campaign Call; Trump and Biden Spar in Dueling Distant Town Halls; CNN: More Than 17 Million Americans have Already Voted. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired October 16, 2020 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[07:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, this is sort of remarkable. We are hearing it out loud. We've heard whispers about this, you hear people say these are the types of discussions that are happening. This was out loud from a Republican Senator Ben Sasse, blasting President Trump. It was in a phone call that was leaked with a lot of constituents.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SEN. BEN SASSE (R-NE): The way he kisses dictators' butts. I mean, the way he ignores that the Uyghurs are in literal concentration camps in Xinjiang right now. He hasn't lifted a finger on behalf of the Hong Kongers.

The United States now regularly sells out our allies under his leadership. The way he treats women and spends like a drunken sailor, the ways I criticized President Obama for that kind of spending, I criticized President Trump for as well. He mocks evangelicals behind closed doors. His family has treated the presidency like a business opportunity. He's flirted with white supremacists.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BERMAN: And that wasn't even all of it. Joining us now, CNN political commentators, Bakari Sellers and Scott Jennings. Scott, this was Senator Ben Sasse, who's up for re-election, by the way, of Nebraska. This was not a phone call to three people that I think he never wanted to go public. Allegedly, the campaign says there were some 17,000 people on this call. So, clearly, he's OK with a lot of people knowing these feelings.

And the gist of what he was saying, Scott, was, he was warning Republicans that he thinks they are in danger of losing the Senate largely because of President Trump. How common now is this feeling as we're nearly, you know, two weeks left to go in voting. How common is this feeling among Republicans connected to the Senate?

SCOTT JENNINGS, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, I think that there is a view that in a lot of these close Senate races where you've got an extremely tight race for the U.S. Senate, if Trump is not winning that state that, yes, I mean, he's making it difficult to communicate with certain kinds of voters.

And those are the kinds of voters that Ben Sasse, I think really closely identifies with, right? It's the kinds of suburban, you know, upper income, college-educated moderate to center-right-moderate-type voters, that's a Ben Sasse kind of a voter, and those are the ones who went away from the Republicans in the mid-term, and that Republicans are trying to get back, but they don't -- they don't have a lot of love for Donald Trump.

So I think for Ben Sasse, I mean, it couldn't be two more different kinds of Republicans than Ben Sasse and Donald Trump. And they do agree on some issues. But he pretty concisely laid out the push-and- pull and the tension within the party, between the people who prefer the more pugilistic style of Donald Trump and people who prefer, you know, sort of the more classical conservatism of a Ben Sasse.

BERMAN: It was pretty remarkable to hear that said out loud, to hear that tape, you've got to admit, Scott, yes?

JENNINGS: It is remarkable. By the way, it's not uncommon for U.S. senators. A lot of politicians use these things called tele-town halls, so they dial out to tens of thousands of people, and then it's really remarkable, you can get thousands of people on the telephone.

In fact, you could speak to more people on one of these kinds of calls, and you'd speak it if you threw a campaign rally in the middle of your hometown. So, these are some of the largest audiences that politicians get. It's really on these tele-town halls. So, it does make it pretty remarkable that he said those things to that many folks because that's probably the biggest crowd he's going to talk to during the election.

BERMAN: Let me put -- especially Nebraska, right? Let me play a little bit more, Bakari.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SASSE: If young people become permanent Democrats because they've just been repulsed by the obsessive nature of our politics, or if women who were willing to still vote with the Republican Party on 2016 decide that they need to turn away from this party permanently in the future, the debate is not going to be -- you know, Ben Sasse, why were you so mean to Donald Trump? It's going to be, what the heck were any of us thinking that selling a TV-obsessed narcissistic individual to the American people was a good idea? It is not a good idea.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BERMAN: Just to be clear, Bakari, this guy is not in your party, right? This guy is in the other party. But he sounds not unlike what former President Barack Obama was saying the other day to "Pod Save America", that the Republican Party might have a reckoning in about two and a half weeks. Your major takeaway, Bakari? BAKARI SELLERS, CNN COMMENTATOR: Yes, I mean, I agree with Ben Sasse.

I know that's not a stretch and I'm going to push back on your framing that this was leaked. I mean, anytime you speak to 17,000 people, that's not -- it doesn't get leaked.

I mean, you want people to hear this, more so to Scott's point. But look, this is Ben Sasse having a moment of honesty. And this is what many of us have been trying to get our friends on the right to recognize, or even if they recognize it, to have the audacity and the fortitude to say it aloud. Ben Sasse finally said aloud what everyone outside of probably Tom Cotton has been thinking.

[07:35:00]

I mean, you have people who parade around as if Donald Trump is the best thing since manna for the Republican Party or this country. And he simply is not -- you take away the policy prescriptions which are truly anti-conservative, there's nothing really Republican about Donald Trump's policy prescriptions outside of the conservative jurists that he appoints to the court.

But his spending, the debt, those type of things are out of control. And then we -- Donald Trump has done something in 2020, which, you know, is pretty remarkable. Character no longer matters in elected officials. I mean, you can't have someone who was grabbing women by the you-know-what and, you know, and speaks with that tone and debases the White House and then want to run on character.

That is -- you know where that's playing out most in a Senate race? In North Carolina. Cal Cunningham(ph) would be losing any other race but in Donald Trump's America. So, Republicans are going to have a reckoning. They made their bed, and so now they have to sleep in it.

BERMAN: Can I -- I want to play one bit of sound from last night's town hall. This is Joe Biden who answered a pretty tough question from an African-American voter, and I want both of yours, like ten seconds take on it. So listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Besides you ain't black, what do you have to say to young black voters who see voting for you as further participation in a system that continually fails to protect them?

JOE BIDEN, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE FOR 2020: Well, I'd say, first of all, as my buddy John Lewis said, it's a sacred opportunity, the right to vote, you can make a difference. If young black women and men vote, you can determine the outcome of this election. Not a joke. You can do that. And the next question is, am I worthy of your vote?

Can I earn your vote? And the answer is there are two things that I think I care, and I've demonstrated that I care about my whole career. One is in addition to dealing with the criminal justice system to make it fair and make it more decent, we have to be able to put black Americans in a position they'll be able to gain wealth, generate wealth. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: And the vice president went on for five minutes after that in that answer. Again, we don't have much time left, so Bakari, in 15 seconds or less, just focusing on former Vice President Joe Biden, how do you think he performed last night?

SELLERS: Very well. And let me tell you why that answer was good. The answer was brilliant because for a long period of time, my colleagues, peers, young black Americans are sick and tired of people saying, oh, my God, we have a plan for African-Americans and it only stems around criminal justice reform.

You know, wealth and accumulating wealth, things that African- Americans have not been able to attain in this country for a very long period of time is something we've been trying to get Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, and anybody who will listen to focus on. So, that's why I'm glad he started with that.

And actually, let me just complement on national TV that young man for having the audacity to frame a question and ask a question that was so heartfelt and framed correctly. So the president was challenged, forced to answer, and he rose to the occasion.

BERMAN: Scott, ten seconds.

JENNINGS: Yes, I think a lot of Republicans would argue that Joe Biden has been taking African-American voters for granted for years. He's got a terrible record, and if you're looking for a better economy, Donald Trump built an economy that works for African- Americans and Hispanics and other minority groups, and Joe Biden never did that in his 47 years in office, that would be the retort.

BERMAN: OK, Scott, Bakari, thank you both for being with us, appreciate it.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, John, more than 17 million Americans have already cast their ballots. We saw long lines yesterday in North Carolina for the first day of early voting there. State election officials say more than 272,000 votes were cast in North Carolina yesterday. That is the -- you know, just the first day of early voting. That far surpasses what we saw in 2016. Two more states begin early voting today. And CNN's Kristen Holmes is live with more -- wow. I mean, we just continue to see this flood of voters to the polls.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Alisyn. I mean, these numbers are extraordinary. And I'm talking to election officials across the country who say they've never seen anything like this. So, let's get right into the numbers, particularly in these battleground states.

Take a look at Georgia here. More than 918 ballots have already been cast. Not a huge surprise. We saw those enormous lines, and in fact, in some areas, they're now posting the wait time online so that people can check before they show up. In Wisconsin, you see it's been more than 592,000. Michigan, more than 1.1 million ballots. And then North Carolina, as

you mentioned, more than 826,000 ballots cast total, and Florida, already over 2 million ballots cast. Now, in the last two states, the Democrats are leading in pre-election voting, but as we know, this is not indicative of who is going to win.

Republicans are more likely to show up on election day. And Alisyn and John, I want to show you these videos of the lines in North Carolina. We have reporters on the ground in every state, with early voting, who are talking to these voters, asking, why are you waiting for hours? And part of it is certainly enthusiasm. But the other part of it is that they don't trust the postal system.

[07:40:00]

They don't trust mail-in voting. So, it gives you an idea that some of this rhetoric against mail-in voting is actually been successful. So let's take a look at what is next. You mentioned that Louisiana and Washington will begin their early voting today. We also have Massachusetts and Nevada, obviously a key swing state beginning tomorrow.

But one thing that's not on this calendar, we cannot stress this enough to our viewers, is that next week, for millions of Americans, in multiple states, will be the deadline to request an absentee or mail-in ballot. They need to be paying attention. If that is how they want to vote, that is exactly what they need to do to meet that deadline.

CAMEROTA: Kristen, thank you very much. OK, so are you actually immune after being sick with coronavirus? And why do doctors think the strategy of herd immunity is so dangerous? Dr. Sanjay Gupta sorts out facts from fiction, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:45:00]

BERMAN: This is a crucial moment in the pandemic, as we clearly enter a new dire wave. The decisions we make now could save or cost tens of thousands of lives. That is why the truth is so important. So our Dr. Sanjay Gupta explores some common misconceptions.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I went through it. Now they say I'm immune, I can feel -- I feel so powerful. I'll walk into that audience!

(CHEERS)

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Misconception number one. Once you get COVID-19, you're forever immune. One study has shown that neutralizing antibodies are produced for at least five months after someone's been infected, but we don't know just how that translates to how long someone will be protected or immunized after an infection.

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY & INFECTIOUS DISEASES: We're starting to see a number of cases that are being reported of people who get re-infected, well-documented cases of people who were infected, after a relatively brief period of time. So you really have to be careful that you're not completely, quote, "immune".

GUPTA: Misconception two. We should try to mitigate this virus by naturally achieving herd immunity.

SCOTT ATLAS, NEURORADIOLOGIST: It's important for people to understand medical science, to know that natural human immunity of populations that is sometimes called herd immunity, it's very important that, that develops. That's how viruses are eradicated

GUPTA: Let me clarify something. Herd immunity is not necessarily a bad thing. It's just a question of how you get there. One way is a vaccine, which many people are hopeful for. But what Dr. Scott Atlas seems to be describing is just letting the infection run free. And now this idea has gained more traction with a controversial declaration written by some scientists who seem to be encouraging those who are not vulnerable to go ahead and get exposed to COVID-19, to resume normal life in order to reach herd immunity.

ROBERT REDFIELD, DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL & PREVENTION: A majority of our nation, more than 90 percent of the population remains susceptible.

GUPTA: What CDC Director Dr. Robert Redfield is talking about is a study that shows fewer than 10 percent of the people in the United States have likely been infected. And keep in mind, to achieve herd immunity, that number would need to be around 60 to 70 percent of the population. Now, Considering more than 217,000 people have already died from COVID-19 with 10 percent infected, look at what 60 percent infection could mean. IHME calculates, this could mean more than 1.2 million deaths.

TEDROS ADHANOM, DIRECTOR-GENERAL, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: It's scientifically and ethically problematic.

GUPTA: Misconception three. Early travel restrictions helped prevent millions of deaths.

TRUMP: The country would have been left wide open. Millions of people would have died, not 200,000.

GUPTA: On February 2nd, the Trump administration began to implement travel restrictions for mainland China. Restrictions, but not a complete ban, since U.S. citizens and permanent residents were still able to travel into the country from China.

PAUL SAX, CLINICAL DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES AT BRIGHAM & WOMEN'S HOSPITAL: Travel bans could potentially prevent this infection in a country, but not if they're instituted solely for the people who are traveling as citizens of the foreign countries. GUPTA: And an analysis by the CDC found that the restrictions on

travel from Europe came too late. Since by March 15th, there was already widespread infection in New York City, an early epicenter of the U.S. outbreak. Back then, we had fewer than 100 deaths, now we have more than 200,000.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: And Alisyn, I've got to point out that, you know, we're still obviously learning a lot about this virus, with regard to re- infections, it's clear that they can happen. It's clear that people can get very sick even, being infected the second time.

But it still seems to be relatively uncommon. You know, we measure antibodies, you say, you don't have antibodies, therefore you can be re-infected. It could be that there's something else going on in the body that still makes them able to protect themselves better, otherwise, we probably would have been seeing much higher re-infection rates.

So, that's going to be worthy of more study, but you can see, there's some misconceptions out there, still Alisyn, but still, a lot that we're learning.

CAMEROTA: It's amazing how little we still know, and how much we know about coronavirus. I mean, doctors have just done obviously, you know, yeoman's duty learning about this because it's so new. And yet --

GUPTA: Yes --

CAMEROTA: There -- it's still so mysterious. Sanjay, thank you very much for separating fact from fiction for us.

GUPTA: Got it.

CAMEROTA: We want to remember some of the nearly 218,000 Americans lost to coronavirus. Dolly Wishon suffered from dementia and had been living at a care facility in Rutherford County, North Carolina, since 2017. Her daughter told CNN affiliate "WLOS", the family had not been able to visit her since the pandemic started, aside from one window visit. She said her mom was, quote, "a very happy, caring, giving lady."

[07:50:00]

Sixty-six-year-old Gail Brusseau drove school buses in Clay County, Florida, for 26 years. When the pandemic started, her husband of 41 years, Bill, begged her to retire, but she decided, just one more year. CNN affiliate "WJXT" reports her bus had been turned -- has been turned into a makeshift memorial with flowers and balloons inside.

Sally Fontanilla was a veteran nurse working on the front lines of the pandemic at a hospital in Apple Valley, California. Her friends told CNN affiliate "KCBS", she was dedicated to always, and always willing to help, there with a smile. She was just 51 years old. We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Two networks. Two presidential town halls. "NBC" --

BERMAN: Like cabaret. Like two ladies, just one man. That's one of the great songs in cabaret. Is that where you're going? Where you're going with this?

CAMEROTA: Yes, that's where I'm going with this --

BERMAN: OK, sorry --

[07:55:00]

CAMEROTA: Exactly. You read my mind. You finished my sentences. "NBC" was taking heat for scheduling the one with President Trump at the very same time as "ABC's" town hall with Joe Biden. But then, the president faced a lot of tough questions from Savannah Guthrie, so did that vindicate them?

Joining us now is CNN chief media correspondent Brian Stelter, host of "RELIABLE SOURCES". Brian, Savannah Guthrie did what no moderator as far as we can tell to this point or host has been able to do with President Trump, and that is get him to answer some questions. Stick wit. Be as persistent as it takes until he answers some questions. Your thoughts?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's why -- it's because he rarely ventures off the "Fox" reservation. He frequently just stays within those safe spaces, calls into his friends radio shows and TV shows. It's rare to see him on a network like "NBC" which he constantly deride. Think about the last four years.

This president has never given an interview to CNN. That is astonishing. That is outrageous. Trump rarely goes on "NBC". So this opportunity for a town hall did double as an opportunity for an interview by Savannah Guthrie. And I think it will probably be the last real substantive interview that this president does before election day.

Because when he is questioned, he doesn't have very straight answers. We -- you were talking earlier about his answers or lack of answers about his lack of -- his testing of coronavirus, his outrageous answers about QAnon, downright dangerous. You know, he struggles in these environments where he actually is questioned, but kudos to Savannah Guthrie for asking those quick questions, those quick follow- up she poked, she prodded, she did her job as a journalist. And you know, in some ways she did what every journalist in this country has been wanting to do with Trump for a long time.

BERMAN: Look, we don't have the ratings yet, so we don't know which town hall got more viewers, and I'm not even sure that will tell us overly much because it isn't totally clear that if you watched one, it made you more likely to vote for a certain candidate --

STELTER: Right -- BERMAN: But really, the important question here, Brian, is what do

the viewers get from this? What did the viewers take away from this hour and a half of television last night? And perhaps what would have been different had there been a debate.

STELTER: I think it was a very visible reminder that Trump walked away from the debate. And that really is a shame. And I'm glad it's not getting lost in all the coverage this morning. You know, this was a poor substitute for having a real debate. But part of the blame for a lack of a debate is on the Debate Commission. And part of the blame is on Trump of course for walking away last week.

But part of the blame is on the commission for having botched this entire season of presidential debates. Now, there is one more, next Thursday, hopefully, it will go off without a hitch. But it's been a really rough season for the commission. And I think this dueling town hall format, this split-screen, all of this attention about the candidates talking past each other, it remind us about why we actually do need real debates in this country.

CAMEROTA: But why? Brian, I mean, the first one is not like people got substantive answers. There was -- you know, as you know, President Trump interrupted a lot, Joe Biden called President Trump names. I mean, why do you think this was -- why do you think a town hall is a poor substitute for that.

STELTER: Well, certainly there were some helpful answers. There are useful exchanges at these town halls. I don't mean to totally diminish them. I thought "ABC's" town hall with Trump last month was also useful, and Biden's town hall on "NBC" last week, these are useful.

But you know, there is a reason why -- there is a tradition in this country of having real debates in the Fall for the last 40, 50-plus years. And in fact, that Trump walked away and the commission made it so easy for him to walk away. I just think it speaks to what's broken about this debate model. This commission also chose Steve Scully of "C-Span" who yesterday admitted to lying, and now he's been suspended by "C-Span".

Now, you can look at that and say, hey, it's great to see someone being held accountable for fessing up to wrongdoing. We don't see that often in politics, at least, in the media, we do. Scully had tweeted Anthony Scaramucci, then he lied and said he was hacked, and finally, a week later, Scully admitted, actually no, it was his tweet all along and he's apologizing now.

But you know, that was going to be the moderator for this debate. I just think it points to the structural problems with the Debate Commission and perhaps in 2024, it's time for a redo, it's time for a make-over of this process to get the candidates involved, to make sure they're willing to debate and then actually talk to each other and not pass each other on separate channels.

BERMAN: Yes, just to be assertive. The Debate Commission just needs to step up and be assertive about things and make decisions. That would be I think a big change. Brian Stelter, thanks so much for being with us --

STELTER: Thanks.

BERMAN: NEW DAY continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No second presidential debate, instead dueling town halls.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The voters did not get a lot of straight answers from President Trump.

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC NEWS: Did you take a test on the day of the debate?

TRUMP: Probably did.

BIDEN: It's just decency to be able to determine whether or not you are clear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nearly 60,000 new COVID-19 infections across America yesterday --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As we enter the cooler season of the Fall, you don't want to be in that compromised position.

(END VIDEO CLIP)