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Trump Attacks Dr. Fauci Repeatedly With 15 Days Left In Election; Trump Jab At Biden: "He'll Listen To The Scientists"; Supreme Court Rejects GOP Attempt To Require Mail-In Ballots Be Received By Election Day In Pennsylvania. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired October 19, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Perhaps both Trumps should heed the words of their own Christmas message last year. "Together, we must strive to foster a culture of deeper understanding and respect traits that exemplify the teachings of Christ."
The news continues. Let's hand it over to Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME." Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: Little parenting pro tip for you there, Coop.
Don't give Wyatt that instruction about Christmas, that, you know, let the first lady speak for herself. I'd go another way with him about the significance of Christmas, just as a parenting point, when you're teaching him about Christmas. Tell him it's something that matters, something to look forward to, and it's going to be safe.
Thank you very much for the questions and for laying it out there for people.
I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.
Absolutely, tonight, this is a call to action. It is time to get after it. COVID is making its biggest move against us since we started fighting it. We need more and better from the federal government, period. Experts across the spectrum, and globe, say this is a pivotal moment.
Now, with all this, where is our President's head? Here.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: People are tired of COVID. I have the biggest rallies I've ever had and we have COVID. People are saying, "Whatever, just leave us alone." They're tired of it.
People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots, these people, these people that have gotten it wrong. Fauci, he's a nice guy, he's been here for 500 years. He called every one of them wrong. And he's like this wonderful guy, a wonderful sage, telling us how, he
said, "Do not wear face masks." That's a number of months ago. He said, "Do not close it up to China." And yet, we keep him.
Every time he goes on television, there's always a bomb. But there's a bigger bomb if you fire him. But Fauci is a disaster, I mean this guy's, if I listened to him, we'd have 500,000 deaths.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Look, most of that is a bunch of poppycock.
Fauci was wrong about masks early on. So, you know what he did? He changed his guidance, when he figured that out.
Mr. President said that COVID would magically disappear. Mr. President told you the virus affects, no one that it was a hoax, not to worry.
Then, he got sick, had to be Medevaced over - not Medevac, taken in a helicopter over to the hospital, for experimental treatments. He made the White House a cluster. He did nothing for his friends, who got sick, while he got himself experimental treatments.
And now that we need the President to change course, he is insistent on doubling down on dumb. Literally he wants to drive us all off a cliff, hoping that those who survive, what is sure to be a fiery crash, will be enough for him to win the election.
By this afternoon, instead of saying that he will do more or better for us, he has been insistent, more than ever, on being his worst. People are starving in this country. They are waiting on line for food. That is our reality. The best deal-maker in history has gotten them nothing.
He blames the Speaker of the House? What about the Senate? What about your power, what, your ability to negotiate? You said, "We're negotiating." Where is it getting these people? They're starving, Mr. President.
We need tests. The more we count, the more we find trouble. You said you'd get more. Where are they? States need help. They need guidance. They're going to you. Where is it?
The help that can be offered is being frozen by him. People are afraid to do things they could because he doesn't want them to. Why? You have to ask yourself that now. Why isn't he attacking this virus the way he did people, who want, to enter the country illegally?
His best plan, in the face of the pandemic moving, by any metric, is to attack the man that you trust most, at the federal level, to fight back.
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D. TRUMP: You know Biden wants to lock it down. He wants to listen to Dr. Fauci. (CROWD BOOING)
D. TRUMP: He wants to listen to Dr. Fauci.
And don't forget, Dr. Fauci, what he said is, "No, no. Don't close it to China." I said, "I'm sorry, Doctor. You're a wonderful man," and he is a nice man. "You're a wonderful man. I'm closing it." I saved thousands of lives. He admitted that two months later. Two months later.
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And Dr. Fauci said, "Don't put on masks. Don't put" - you see the thing. And now, he says "Put on masks," and they say, you know, he's a wonderful guy, and he is a wonderful guy. I like him. He just happens to have a very bad arm.
(CROWD LAUGHTER)
D. TRUMP: He has a bad arm, but he's a good guy. He is a good guy. A lot of our people don't like him. I like him. You have to understand him. He's a promoter.
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CUOMO: Project much? He is a promoter? Let's be fair. You're both promoters.
What does Mr. President promote? Anger, division, ignorance, even toward a man that he needs.
Fauci is a promoter, too. What does he promote? Well, when asked about the venom that the President sends his way, because with all the "He's a nice guy," the guy gets death threats, and threats against his family, on a regular basis, here is how he handles it.
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DR. JONATHAN LAPOOK, CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT, CBS NEWS (voice- over): Once an avid runner, at 79, Dr. Fauci now power walks, flanked by federal agents.
LAPOOK (on camera): What's that all about?
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: That's sad. The very fact that a public health message, to save lives, triggers, such venom and animosity to me that it results in real and credible threats to my life and my safety. But it bothers me less than the hassling of my wife and my children.
LAPOOK (on camera): They've been threatened?
FAUCI: Yes. I mean, like, give me a break.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: That's from "60 minutes."
So, I called Tony Fauci today. I call him on a regular basis.
He went right into, as soon as he knew it was me, into the progress that's being made with the vaccine, and the need to do something about the frightening numbers that are coming around in the country, that it's happening too fast, that we weren't as good as we needed to be over the summer, and that's why we're seeing what we're seeing, because it didn't make sense to me.
So, I bring up the President's attacks to Tony Fauci. His response, he never even paused, "I'll leave the politics to you guys," he said, just waived it away. Then he says, "Just please, don't stop telling people how to help themselves. Remind we have to be there for one another."
I said, "You got nothing else to say about what's going on than that?" And he laughed and he said, "Yes, buy a new suit."
No. I'm not going to buy another new suit.
But it tells you what you need to know about Tony Fauci. Thank god he can keep a clear head and stay straight on what he needs to do, for us, while Captain COVID spreads toxic talk.
Listen to the difference between what's on Fauci's mind and what's on the man who was elected to protect us against something like exactly the thing he's ignoring right now.
Here is what he wanted you to know.
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D. TRUMP: He'll listen to the scientists. If I listen totally to the scientists, we would, right now, have a country that would be in a massive depression, instead of, we're like a rocket ship. Take a look at the numbers.
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CUOMO: He's lying to you, OK? We lost 22 million jobs. He's saying, "Yes, but we got 11 million back." What does that tell you? We're still down 11 million.
The unemployment rate hasn't been like this since the Depression. And he can't even cut a deal. Sure, the Democrats can be held to fault, if you want. Maybe they should take something, get something done for somebody. I say fair criticism.
He thinks listening to scientists is a weakness, and that it's a good debate point for him? Let's look at it differently. He'll get this. Assessing the pandemic is not like assessing if Trump is a great businessman.
He's great, why, because he knows how to borrow a lot on his daddy's back. Me? I like my great businessmen without a lot of bankruptcies that their father had to bail out with his millions.
Now, with the pandemic, we don't have to play that kind of subjective game. We have actual numbers. The numbers show he is as wrong about this pandemic as he is about his net worth.
Hospitalizations are up more than 5 percent in 42 states. And they're a lagging indicator. Remember, you get sick. You try to deal with it. Hopefully, the case is mild. If isn't, then you have to go to the hospital. We are in crisis. We need the President to focus on it.
And, again, another example, faced with a crisis, this is where his head is.
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D. TRUMP: He is lucky that we have, in our country, and they don't appreciate, a wonderful human being, and the most fair Attorney General of the United States.
(CROWD SHOUTS "YES!")
D. TRUMP: Because I know people that would've had him locked up five weeks ago.
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CUOMO: Had who locked up? Barr? For front-running a BS investigation just to make you happy in the middle of a pandemic? Well, ladies and gentlemen, here is the truth. And I ask the Attorney General to come out, and say otherwise.
They looked. Was Obama spying on Trump's campaign, even though he wasn't running? No. No proof, because there was no spying. Even the President's boy, Mr. Barr, could not come up with anything to charge.
The best he could do was not put out a report negating their poison premise. Remember Barr? "Yes, they were spying. I call it spying. Spying! Spying! I'm going to look for the spying."
No spying! Where is it? And now, no report, right? God forbid you say you were wrong.
Listen, the President has to wake up and open his eyes. 8 million Americans are infected. Many are your supporters. Some, you made sick on purpose. 220,000 are dead in this country, and all you can say is, "Oh, if it weren't for me, there'd be more." Well maybe if it weren't for you, there would be less, a lot less.
You cannot hide. We will not let you hide. You cannot lie your way out of a pandemic that you will be in charge of, whether you win or lose, for weeks, at the time that the experts say we need leadership most. This is how you will be remembered. It is your last chance to do something, other than pretend you need to do nothing. All you have to do is be like Fauci. Tell the places with case spread,
tell your audience, "Wear masks." You got half of it. You said "Fauci said don't wear masks. Now he says wear masks." OK, so you say it, too, because now it's the right thing to do, and you know it.
Instead, what do we get? Scott Atlas, the guy has never managed a pandemic response, tweeting something so stupid, "Masks work? No." Twitter pulled it down. Think about how pathetic that is. So wrong that Dr. Deborah Birx, remember her, she was in for a minute, she told friends, over the weekend, there was relief when it was removed.
"The Washington Post" says Dr. Birx recently confronted the Vice President's office saying she doesn't trust Atlas, wants him off the Task Force. But Trump says he's great because he says the BS that Trump wants him to say.
But here is where the President is right, and I'll leave you with this. We're all tired of COVID. Hell yes, we are. Seven months. But this President is clearly part of the problem.
And, again, we must all implore him, let people help us. Let the people in the government do what they can. Stop attacking the scientists and the science, please. Stop telling your people to expose themselves to the virus, please.
I'm sure you do want me to get sick again. But all I wanted was for you to get well, and I want others to suffer, because I take no joy in other people's pain, and neither should you. So many can still be spared. So many will listen to you, if you give them the right advice.
At the end of the day, Mr. President, there is only one way forward, and it has to be together. It's all that's worked in this country. It is all that will beat this pandemic.
Your attacks will lose out to the simple intelligence of science and the sweet instruction of being there for one other in America. We are interconnected and interdependent.
Please listen to these words. I know you don't like to read. I'll read them for you. It's a poem called "Outwitted" by Edwin Markham.
"HE DREW a circle that shut me out Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout. But Love and I had the wit to win: We drew a circle that took him in!"
Mr. President, you can say what you want, but I know that people in this country can never stop hoping that you will do something with the time you have to make things better for them.
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And we're going to do that right now by giving people straight information about what is happening, and what can be done, and why we're dealing with what we're dealing with this President politically. People need to see it for what it is. Dr. Michael Osterholm, and Anthony Scaramucci, thank you both, gentlemen, for being patient, while I was doing what I do.
Doctor, the reality of the hospitalizations, as a lagging indicator, is a very frightening metric, because there is no subjectivity to it. If you are in the hospital, you've got a problem, unless you are the President, who was there getting experimental treatments.
What do you know about the numbers and what do they tell you about what's happening with the pandemic, right now?
MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH & POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: Well, in fact, you're right, the hospitalizations are going up, and they're going up in many states, not just a few states, like we saw this summer.
But you can actually also glean a great deal of information from the testing results. People can say "We're testing more. That's why we're finding more."
But when you actually look at the rate of positivity, meaning how frequently is someone found to be infected, there, if you are just testing more, then the rate of positivity is going to go down, meaning if I sample twice as much, for the same number of infections, it will be half the rate of positivity. Our rates of positivity--
CUOMO: Well hold on a second, Doc?
OSTERHOLM: --are going up and in some locations--
CUOMO: Doc?
OSTERHOLM: Yes?
CUOMO: Say it again. I didn't get it.
OSTERHOLM: OK. So yes--
CUOMO: People think if you test more, you are only getting more positives because you test a lot, so don't test so much, and you're actually better off that way. Say again what you're saying.
OSTERHOLM: Right and - and what I'm saying is, if you test more, but the percentage of people who are positive continues to go up, that means that the size of the pool of people, who are infected, is actually also going up, so that if it was just the same number of people, in the community, and you are testing twice as much, then your rate will be half as much.
But if you are testing twice as much, and the rate goes up four times, that tells you there is a lot of new transmission in your community. And that's what we're seeing right now.
Even ahead of the hospitalizations, we're seeing an ever-increasing number of people who are infected. And even more problematic than that, in many of our locations, up to half of these people have no known source of exposure, because that's how much virus is floating around, in our communities, right now.
CUOMO: So, Anthony, what Osterholm is saying is being told to the President. You and I both know it.
He is making a political decision. "Well I'm not going there. I'm not running with that narrative. I'm going to run that they get the science wrong all the time. I did the right things. We're OK." Why?
ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, FOUNDER, SKYBRIDGE CAPITAL: Very insecure guy. He doesn't like experts. He's a reflexive guy.
Interviewed H. R. McMaster on Friday "You bring the President something, he'll do the exact opposite, because he's so insecure." He's also got this reality distortion field around him, and he's got sycophants now that are feeding that.
So, he wants people to believe that he's Captain Courageous out there, fighting the virus with no mask, and having rallies that are super- spreader events, and that's the right way to go. And we all know that it's the wrong way to go.
And then he gets super upset that Dr. Fauci is a leader among men, and it's just really telling people what's going on with the science, and just trying to protect them.
My heart goes out to the Fauci family. It upsets me to see that on "60 Minutes." You know I'm upset when he goes after you, Chris, when he goes after Governor Cuomo.
I'm OK when he goes after me because I can handle the guy. But I'm looking at Anthony Fauci as a scientist, and somebody that's just a dispassionate objective leader, trying to help the American people.
But the good news is this is the worst thing that he could possibly do. So, he's disturbing everybody, especially White ethnics, when he goes after somebody like Anthony Fauci. And so, he's going to lose the election.
Just look at the parallel lines in the polling. They don't move. They didn't move for Mandel and Reagan. They didn't move for Nixon in 1971, when he beat McGovern. And they're not moving now. And Joe Biden is going to be the next President.
And what you said, in your monologue, is something that we have to hope and pray that over the 12 weeks that Mr. Trump, President Trump has the office, he will listen to these experts, to try to save American lives.
CUOMO: It's the best play for him, by the way, to win the election, even now, is to say, OK, there's new data, here's what we're going to do. Even now, he could do it.
SCARAMUCCI: No chance!
CUOMO: Dr. Osterholm? I'll get back to you about why there's no chance.
Dr. Osterholm, you, obviously as the Director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research & Policy, at the University of Minnesota, you know people who are involved with the governmental efforts.
I keep being told, I'll make these off-the-record phone calls, "Why aren't you trying this? Why aren't you trying that?" They say, "No, no, no, we got - we would like to do more. We can't," because they are afraid of the political pushback that the motivator is "Keep it as it is. Keep it as it is."
Have you heard anything like that? And what kind of danger is it from a policy perspective, if we don't start doing more things and different things to fight this pandemic?
OSTERHOLM: Well, first of all, let me just say that my whole career has been spent just calling balls and strikes.
[21:20:00]
I have served roles in the last five Presidential administrations, including as a Science Envoy for the State Department in this Administration. I served two Democratic governors, two Republican governors, one Independent Governor in Minnesota, and no one could tell my partisan politics. I'm a private in the public health army.
So, when I say, right now, that I've never seen the federal government in the public health side of the house, in such dysfunction, that is just a balls and strikes call.
The CDC has all but been eliminated, as a critical force, in the public health response. FDA has had its challenges. I give Commissioner Hahn great credit. Recently, I think he's really stood up the whole issue around vaccines.
But generally speaking, we're not counting on our federal partners for leadership anymore. It's coming from the 50 states, which in and of itself is a problem because some states are doing it quite well. Others are doing it very poorly, and we don't have a unified national response.
CUOMO: 10 key battleground states, none of which the President is leading in right now, cases are going in the wrong direction. You don't think the people there, who are Republicans, as they start having this touch their families, it's not going to affect their vote? I mean, come on, Anthony, and yet.
Look, I don't care if he says he wants me to get sick again. That tells you everything you need to know about him. I'll tell you what. I'd gladly get sick again, in a second, if it would make a difference for anybody else. The only upside to getting sick is that maybe you can help people know that they should be worried about it.
But he is convinced that if he attacks enough people who oppose him it will work. Why? SCARAMUCCI: The Roy Cohn strategy goes back 45 years, "If you hit me, I'm going to hit you 10 times harder. This way, you'll be deterred to hit me again. But it also will scare people." And that has worked for him.
He had 52 Republican senators vote to acquit him, and he was a full-on criminal. Just look at the evidence of the case. I mean, he basically was bribing a Ukrainian President, I mean so.
But he uses those tactics, those Roy Cohn intimidation tactics. He spittles out all that hate and bullying, and it has worked for him, Chris.
But the weird thing about Mother Nature, it can't work in a scientific situation. And this is the reason why he's going to lose the election. It's almost like Mother Nature has come down to settle the score with Mr. Trump. "Sorry. You can't yell fake science. The people know," and a result of which he's going to get voted out of office.
CUOMO: Look, I just wish that he would see the opportunity in saying he will do something about this pandemic. I mean, forget about politics of it.
SCARAMUCCI: There is no chance.
CUOMO: I just - I'm just saying there is so many people who need that message.
Dr. Michael Osterholm, thank you very much. Anthony Scaramucci, as always--
OSTERHOLM: Thank you.
CUOMO: --I appreciate the insight. Be well. Bless the family.
SCARAMUCCI: Same, Chris.
CUOMO: Bless your family, too, Doc.
All right, the President questioned science, questioned scientists, unless they are saying something he wants in the moment. But cases are ticking up. And they're not supposed to be. Not like this.
Let's get the perspective of somebody who is in the position to fight back, and is doing so, New Jersey's Governor Phil Murphy. What's the reality in the State? Why is it happening? How are his resources and his ability to respond? Next.
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CUOMO: Everything for the President is extreme. "They're great people" or "Lock them up." "Agree with me," like this Atlas, Dr. Atlas or "Get attacked by me" like Dr. Fauci. "Shut the country down" or "Completely open it up."
Extremes are an indicator of a lack of intelligence. We need measured response that deals with the situation.
Let's talk to somebody who has that job, to find the balance of keeping the virus in check, while allowing society to continue to survive, Democratic Governor, from New Jersey, Phil Murphy.
Gov., good to have you. The climate obviously affects everything. There is an election going on, two weeks away. The President is insistent on attacking anybody who wants to say that this pandemic is a problem, and he needs to do something, attacking Fauci, saying that following the scientists is stupid.
What effect does this have, on you, in terms of this political climate? What do you want people to know about what they're hearing?
GOV. PHIL MURPHY (D-NJ): Well, it doesn't make our job any easier, Chris, I can tell you. It is - it makes it more complicated and, I think, it puts lives at risk.
Dr. Fauci, I have to say, has been there at every step of the way, for New Jersey, both privately, in public fora, and everything in between.
And, to me, he's the role model of that responsible leadership that we need, making decisions based on science, data, facts, presenting the case, as tough as it might be, and giving us a path forward, a realistic path that includes, frankly, some hopeful elements, whether it's therapeutics or vaccines.
We're in the mix again here. We've come a long way, but our numbers are up, over the past several weeks, and we're battling this, and we need everybody.
We need role models for folks to look to and say, "You know what? That makes sense to socially distance, wear our face covering, wash your hands with soap and water, take yourself off the field, if you don't feel well, or if you have been exposed." That's the sort of leadership we need right now.
CUOMO: Do you think the President knows what you are dealing with, knows how desperate the situation is?
[21:30:00] MURPHY: I mean I have to believe he does, Chris. I have spoken to him on a number of occasions. We've met face-to-face. You'd have to be under a rock, right now, not to look at the numbers.
And, by the way, as I say, New Jersey has come a long way. But our numbers are up. But our prayers are with those states that are literally at the edge of their bed capacity, which we were in the spring, as you - as you well remember.
This is not just a Northeast thing. It's not just a Blue state thing. It's an American challenge, at the moment, and it's real.
And I speak to family, survivors of folks, who have been taken by this virus, literally all the time. I spoke to three families today, in fact. These are lives - lived lives lost, real suffering, real loss. I would hope to god he does.
CUOMO: You've said plenty of times, "You know, the real opponent for this President is not Joe Biden," I have never taken it as you disrespecting Biden, but that "He's running against COVID-19."
I mean, how, you know, imagine if you were to run in your reelection by saying, "Yes, it was no big deal. We really didn't need to do anything. Masks, if you like them, you like them. If you don't, you don't." I mean just think about how devastating that would be for you in an election.
Why do you think this President is making that play?
MURPHY: It would be devastating.
And, by the way, there would be a minority, in our State, and there certainly is a bloc in the country that would be happy with that point of view. But the vast majority of New Jerseyans and, I believe, Americans, get this, understand it.
I can't get inside the President's head. I think if you are anyone, who is sort of on the fence right now, I think you are looking for competent, professional, responsible leadership, up against a clear pandemic, and a clear economic meltdown, as a result of it. It's not the playbook I would be running.
CUOMO: The election, how is it going for you with early mail-in? Have you had any problems? The President is suggesting that mail-in voting is going to be rife with fraud. What is your reaction to that, based on what you are seeing?
MURPHY: Yes. We don't see it. I mean, we've had - we had a local election, in May, in Paterson, which the President has cited. I think it showed that the system works. Some local guys there tried to jam up the system, and they got caught.
So far so good in the general. We have over 1.75 million votes received at our County Clerks'. That's 45 percent, Chris, of the entire vote, in 2016, which was 3.9 million. Folks have the choice, in New Jersey, to mail in, drop in a secure
box, hand to a clerk, or a poll worker, on Election Day, or vote in person, so far so good. In fact, that understates the case, so far so really good.
CUOMO: In terms of "So far so good," what we have in front of us is bad. As you know, the experts are saying this is a critical period. Why? We're trying to get people back in schools. We're trying to get people back indoors. These were the easier months during the summer.
Virus doesn't take the summer off, but people are going back inside, people are tired of it. The President is right. You know that.
MURPHY: Absolutely.
CUOMO: How scared are you that this is going to go the wrong way?
MURPHY: Listen, I'm not sure I'd use the word "Scared," but "Concerned."
I do think, Chris, we're far better-prepared now than we were eight months ago. And you know this, but it's worth repeating the science, and the medical understanding is dramatically different and better. Our capacities, whether it's bed, PPE, ventilators, healthcare workers, is meaningfully better.
The virus feels like it's infecting a younger demographic, which we don't - we don't wish this on anybody, but it's not like that awful early days when the seniors and folks with comorbidities got crushed. So, I'm concerned.
The experts, I speak to, are less concerned, and our evidence backs this up so far, less concern in the public square, as they say, less concern with the stuff we can regulate and ensure compliance than we are with letting their - people letting their hair down inside their own homes or in congregate living--
CUOMO: Yes.
MURPHY: --or with holidays coming up. That fatigue we think is showing itself in that reality, and we just got to ask folks to hang in there, fight through this.
CUOMO: Right. That's the right message. Left, Right, that's just reasonable. Governor Phil Murphy?
MURPHY: Amen!
CUOMO: Thank you. God bless. Let us know how to help.
MURPHY: Thank you very much, Chris, for having me.
CUOMO: All right, we'll be right back. We have news on the other side.
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CUOMO: All right, breaking news tonight, impacting a critical state in the presidential race.
The United States Supreme Court rejects Republican efforts to require that all mail-in ballots be received by Election Day and counted that night in Pennsylvania. Now, votes will be counted, if they are received within three days of Election Day.
Four of the eight Justices dissented. Think about this. The court was split 4-4, OK? Chief Justice Roberts sided with the Court's three liberals. Trump and Republicans already said this is why they are rushing to get Judge Amy Coney Barrett confirmed.
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D. TRUMP: So, you're going to need nine Justices up there. I think it's going to be very important.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Now, we may have litigation about who won the election, but the Court will decide. And if the Republicans lose, we will accept that result. But we need a full court.
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SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): We need a full Court, on Election Day, given the very high likelihood that we're going to see litigation that goes to the court.
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CUOMO: When they say full court, they mean stacked court, right? There are two big parts of this conversation. You got law and politics. Let's bring in Ben Ginsberg, and Harry Enten, the Wizard of Odds.
It's good to have you both.
Counselor Ginsberg, if Judge Barrett had been on that panel, she does not have cases on point, but given her assumed predisposition, you would have people in Pennsylvania not getting their votes counted, if they came in postmarked after Election Day.
BEN GINSBERG, REPUBLICAN ELECTION LAWYER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, that's probably right, although, these cases are all over the map, Chris. This was a 4-4 split, so it goes back to upholding what the Pennsylvania Supreme Court did.
Michigan, and Wisconsin and North Carolina, all have cases that go a different way, at the Appellate level. They're likely to be heard before Judge - Justice Barrett is sworn in. And so, it isn't clear that these are outright victories for the Democrats.
CUOMO: Well but should this be partisan? I mean, the idea of limiting when votes can be counted, who does that help?
GINSBERG: Well, it's going to help different people in different states is the reality of it.
And, look, state legislatures are empowered to make laws for when - for the casting and counting of ballots, the time, place and manner of their elections. And what you do have is different states making different policy judgments about that.
CUOMO: Right. Look, obviously, it's up to the states. I'm just saying I don't know how counting things sooner helps people exercise the franchise. That's all I'm saying. But there is obviously law here and then politics.
GINSBERG: Yes, right.
CUOMO: And the politics, the suspicion would be, Harry, the reason they want to limit how many can be counted is because this early voting isn't exactly a boon to the President's hopes. What are we seeing?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER & ANALYST: Yes. I mean I think your thesis is borne out in the numbers. I mean take a look at the Pennsylvania poll numbers, by those who say they're going to vote absentee versus vote on Election Day.
This is an ABC News/Washington Post poll. Among those who say they're going to vote absentee, look at this margin for Joe Biden. It's nearly 75 percentage points versus those voting on Election Day, Trump is, in fact, leading in that poll by 21 points.
So, there is this huge spread in Pennsylvania, larger than the national average, though we do see it nationally as well, where Democrats, specifically Joe Biden supporters say they're going to vote absentee versus those Republicans who say they're more likely to vote on Election Day.
CUOMO: Let me throw to a piece of sound from the President about how he says he's doing in the polls, Harry. I want your take on how what he says - oh, we don't have it? All right.
So, he says "We're winning in Arizona, in Florida, by three, maybe even four. If you had Election Day - if you had the election today, we win North Carolina. We win Pennsylvania. It was a sleeper last time. We win. And Ohio, too."
So Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, if it happened today, and Pennsylvania, Harry, you agree with that? ENTEN: No, I don't agree with that. In fact, I'll tell you this much. Joe Biden has a significant lead in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. In fact, he is leading by more than 5 points, in all three of those states.
And, in fact, if you look at this electoral map, what you see is Joe Biden has a significant lead. He has over 270 electoral votes in states. He has over 270 electoral votes in states where he has a lead of at least 5 points in both September and October.
CUOMO: Oh man! Oh man!
ENTEN: So, even if there was a polling miss, he would still be the winner today, if of course the election were held today. But of course, the election isn't being held today. It's being held in two weeks and a day.
CUOMO: We lost Counselor Ginsberg, but a point that I think he would validate, we've discussed it before, but it will work for you, Harry, is this. The thing that makes no sense about this political strategy, you know, legally it's a state's call what you want your rules to be.
You have this odd conflation here that we saw in Texas. Federal court says, "Yes, the Governor wants less boxes because he says it will help them keep track better. OK." And the state says, "No, we do the rules here. And" - oh, good, Ginsberg's back.
So, let me ask you this, Counselor. The - Texas, federal court says, "Yes, yes, the Governor can do it." State court says, "No, he can't." What does that tell us about how litigation is going to go here?
GINSBERG: Well, it tells you that it is, as you said before, all partisan. I mean, look, there is also a long-term problem the Republican Party has, getting case after case, not facilitating people's ability to vote.
CUOMO: Right.
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GINSBERG: So yes, you're going to see a lot of elected officials doing things that they think is helping them in the short-term will actually cause problems in the long-term.
CUOMO: A point that you would have made, Harry, we got to go, I'm out of time, is the weird thing about this as a political strategy is that Republicans traditionally vote by mail more than Democrats.
So, the President has been sending a chilling message to his own people. He's tried to reverse, in Florida and North Carolina. But he's been saying "Don't do it" for many weeks.
Ben Ginsberg, thank you. Thank you for fighting through the IT problems.
GINSBERG: Thank you. CUOMO: Harry Enten, there is no problem for you in any realm of life. Nice haircut!
ENTEN: Thank you.
CUOMO: If you're looking for hope, right now, I've got you a segment right here. I hear you. I know it's tough. I know it matters, but it's tough. Two teens, two Ameri-CANs, wait until you see, why whatever we're messing up, it's not over yet. In these faces, I see us getting to better places. Ameri-CANs, next.
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CUOMO: These days, it feels like we all suck. Nobody can get it right. President doesn't put out the right message. Nobody's getting it done. The pandemic's getting worse. Everything is getting worse. Wrong!
There is hope among us in the faces of the young. I call these two Ameri-CANs anyway you look at it.
You have Anika Chebrolu, there she is, won top prize, 25 grand, at this year's 3M Young Scientist Challenge. But why? On her own, she decided to research and develop a molecule that may hopefully lead to a potential cure to COVID. I kid you not.
The other one, Taft Foley, this guy created a mobile medical lab that offers rapid tests and results in 15 minutes.
Anika and Taft join us now on PRIME TIME. God bless you both, and thank you, and thank your parents for giving you the incentive, and the pressure, to try to do something even at your young ages.
Anika, I'll start with you. 14, genius, but how did you come up with the idea of this path towards a potential cure?
ANIKA CHEBROLU, 14-YEAR-OLD WINNER OF 3M YOUNG SCIENTIST CHALLENGE: Thank you, Chris, for having me.
It actually started with a school project. I was researching about the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic. And I was crazed at how many deaths and infections it caused across the world. And so, after further research, I realized that even with the current
vaccinations, and the antivirals in the market, there is almost 60,000 deaths in the U.S. alone, in spite of all the vaccinations, all the therapies, last couple years ago.
So, that started my research and drug discovery, vaccinations, and pandemics, and I came across a methodology for drug discovery, which used computational methods, to identify potential antivirals.
So, after further research, and more extensive examination of the influenza virus, and the methodology, which I used, I combined my knowledge to find a potential antiviral against the influenza virus. But then--
CUOMO: So, you were crunching numbers? You started off with a database of like what, 600 million potential molecules that could work together, in some permutation, to create a cure?
CHEBROLU: Yes. 698 million molecules, and selectively narrowed it down.
CUOMO: This is amazing. Now, what kind of shot do they say your research has?
CHEBROLU: So, my research is actually just a drop in the ocean of research being done, by numerous scientists and individuals, across the country. But, at this point, every research, and every effort matters to help end the pandemic, and control its aftermath.
CUOMO: What do you want to do with your life? Seeing how you're 14, you should decide today.
CHEBROLU: I do plan on going in to a career related to biology and the medical field, so maybe a medical researcher.
CUOMO: Well, let me tell you, it's not just what you developed, it's that you are trying, and that means everything in an environment where seem some people don't want to help themselves.
And you, is that a gaming chair that you're sitting in there, Taft?
TAFT FOLEY III, CO-FOUNDER, TEXAS MOBILE MEDICAL LABS, 18-YEAR-OLD EMERGENCY MEDICAL TECHNICIAN: Yes, Sir, it is.
CUOMO: Man, now my son is going to want one of those. But I'm OK with it. You know why, because the more he wants to be like you, the better.
So, you come at it from a different perspective of the practicality. He is only 18 by the way, Taft. So, high school senior, Houston area, he is an EMT already, in Texas, OK? So, we're dealing with a kid, who's on the ball, he wants it.
What did you discover about testing? And why did you decide to do what you did?
FOLEY III: Mr. Cuomo, thank you for inviting on this show. Anika, what an amazing achievement! I'm surely honored to be in your company.
CHEBROLU: Thank you so much.
FOLEY III: During the clinical portion, I, EMT course, I treated COVID patients in the ER and on an ambulance.
When I got back to Houston, I took a test, and I self-quarantined when I got back. When I got to the building, there were really long lines, and had to wait two hours, just to get in, and had to wait two weeks, to get my results back.
While I was self-quarantining, I thought there's got to be a better way. And that's when I came up with the idea of a mobile lab. We specialize in testing at businesses, events, and people's home.
CUOMO: How do you get the tests back so fast?
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FOLEY III: The tests are so quick because of the types of tests we're using. We're using Quidel's Sofia 2 machines to get these tests out to people.
CUOMO: What is that? Look at it, Anika is nodding her head.
I don't know what you people know. Why are they good?
FOLEY III: So--
CUOMO: Why are they fast?
FOLEY III: So, we are using Sofia - Quidel's Sofia 2 antigen tests. So, what it's doing is it is looking at the virus - it is looking at the virus itself, because the virus is what's causing an immune response in the body.
CUOMO: So, I'm going to put information out about how can - how people can help you get more trucks. I know that you raised 60 grand yourself, and your father, to - your parents to incentivize you. They said we'll match whatever you raise, so now you got them on the hook. But I'll put information out.
Anika, thank you so much for what you're doing. I want to stay in touch.
And you, Mr. Foley, I got news for you. You may know a lot of things that I don't know. But I know something you don't. You want to know a secret?
FOLEY III: Sure.
CUOMO: Your SATs--
FOLEY III: Please tell me.
CUOMO: Your SATs came back. Guess what percentage your results were in.
FOLEY III: I--
CUOMO: Wrong! 98th percentile in SAT scores in the country.
FOLEY III: Oh--
CUOMO: That's right. Lucky you are sitting in that--
FOLEY III: Thank--
CUOMO: --high-back chair, so you don't fall on your heinie!
FOLEY III: Thanks.
CUOMO: Congratulations. You see that flag behind your head? You can go anywhere you want, my young friend. Congratulations!
Thank your parents for putting it into both of your heads and hearts to do something with your life. And thank God for both of you. Thank you for giving us hope. Anika, Taft, congratulations and be well.
We'll be right back.
CHEBROLU: Thank you.
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CUOMO: "CNN TONIGHT" with the star, D. Lemon, right now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST, CNN TONIGHT WITH DON LEMON: How - how bad do you feel about yourself after those--
