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Coronavirus Cases Surge as 2020 Race Enters Home Stretch; Trump Campaigns in Arizona Today as Biden Preps for Final Debate. Aired 7- 7:30a ET

Aired October 19, 2020 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: By the way, it just means the cases are steady, and in some cases, steady at a very dangerous level.

[07:00:06]

Some of these states that are in most trouble right now is exactly where the president is choosing to hold large rallies with no social distancing, few masks, exactly the kind of events that the coronavirus task force is warning against.

And in a new interview, Dr. Fauci says that given events like this, he's not surprised that the president got coronavirus.

ERICA HILL, CNN NEW DAY: 15 days now to go until Election Day, and three days before the final presidential debate. President Trump meantime, as John pointed out, is opting for more rallies. It's an effort to rev up his base rather than prepping for the critical debate or trying to grow his support. All of this as Joe Biden is now emphasizing unity, zeroing in on the battleground states, and despite leading in some of the latest polls, his campaign out with a message to supporters that they not become complacent.

This weekend, more long lines in early voting states, more than 27 million ballots have already been cast. That's nearly 20 percent of the total ballots cast in 2016.

BERMAN: Joining us now, CNN Medical Analyst, Dr. Leana Wen, she is an emergency room physician and the former a Baltimore City Health Commissioner. Dr. Wen it is great to have you with us.

Although I have to say when you listen to Scott Gottlieb, former FDA commissioner, when you listen to Michael Osterholm saying that we're on the precipice of the worst 6 to 12 weeks of the pandemic, it's deeply concerning why. Why are we hearing these alarms?

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Because we are in for a very, very difficult winter ahead. This is exactly where we did not want to be headed into the winter. The hope all along is that we would have suppressed the level of infection enough, John, that headed into the winter. We would have a much lower baseline. But that's not where we are. And now, we're headed into the winter months when it's going to be harder for people to do outdoors rather than indoors. We also know that winter is when coronaviruses and the virus that causes COVID-19 is a coronavirus, when coronaviruses are more active. The winter air, the cold air also is less humid and viruses can spread more in that colder environment as well.

And I think the other part of this too is quarantine fatigue, pandemic fatigue is very real. We've asked people to do some very hard things, but then there are contradictory messages. It gets very confusing for us as physicians and public health experts to be asking our patients to avoid crowds, to not even see their loved ones, and that we see the president holding large rallies where people are not physical distancing or wearing masks. That kind of contradictory, misleading message can actually kill.

HILL: Yes. And it's a message that I think, frankly, you've been fighting for, I mean, how many months have we been at this now? Seven months more? It isn't changing at all, even as we see this virus spread, as we see these horrific numbers, nearly 70,000 new cases on Friday.

I guess, you know, on this Monday morning, is there anything you see, Dr. Wen, that could change that trajectory given all the headwinds that you just mentioned?

WEN: There is. Look, I wish the federal government did their part, because the whole point is that the American people would put forth these sacrifices. We would miss school and not go to work and stay home and not see our loved ones in order to buy us time to ramp up our testing, contact tracing, all of these other capabilities. That hasn't happened as it should have.

But there are still things that we as individuals can do. Now that we know, for example, that informal settings, these gatherings of family and friends, are what's leading to this latest surge in infection, we can be really on our guard. And I realize this is going to be really hard for many people to not see their loved ones over the holidays or to only see them outdoors rather than indoors, to continue to keep physical distancing rather than having large gatherings. It's going to be really hard. But we can do this.

And it's not for forever. We need to get through this winter ahead until, ideally, we can get a vaccine and therapeutics that will make a difference for the next winter.

BERMAN: And it will take consistent messaging from the top, which we're just not getting. There's a fascinating article in The Washington Post which crossed minutes ago which talks about how the coronavirus task force at this point is broken because of Scott Atlas, the radiologist who now has the president's ear, sort of a medical Rasputin, whispering in the president's ear, in some cases, shouting in the president's ear, that surveillance testing is not necessary. He's pushing back on mass testing. He's pushing back on wearing masks, Twitter.

Twitter took a post down that he made over the weekend which questioned, really attacked mask-wearing. And you can hear it in the president's rhetoric. The president, from the stump, in a campaign event, actually criticized Joe Biden for listening to science. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: If you vote for Biden, he will surrender your jobs to China.

[07:05:04]

He will surrender your future to the virus. He's going to lock down. This guy wants to lock down. He'll listen to the scientists. If I listened totally to the scientists, we would right now have a country that would be in a massive depression instead of we're like a rocket ship. Take a look at the numbers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: The science here, I have to believe, as you were saying, Dr. Wen, is probably the most important thing.

WEN: Right. And, actually, if we listen to the scientists all along, we wouldn't be in this position. We wouldn't have out of control surging infections all over the country. We would have saved tens of thousands, if not more than a hundred thousand lives if we let public health lead this public health response.

President Trump has the top scientists and public health experts working with him. If he listened to Dr. Fauci, if he listened to the CDC, we would be in a very different place right now. And instead, I'm very concerned that he's -- that he's listening to Dr. Atlas, who holds views that are completely out of step with the rest of the medical and scientific community.

We need to speak the truth, that masks do work, that testing and contact tracing, that's how we're going to get the virus under control. And it is really important for the American people to have a consistent message where we're not pitting public health versus the economy, but rather we're seeing that public health is the pathway back to economic recovery.

HILL: It seems like that's such a simple message. And yet, as John points out, it's not the one we're getting. Something else that really struck me in this interview with Dr. Fauci last night on 60 Minutes, the president has gone after Dr. Fauci repeatedly when he talks about masking. Well, Dr. Fauci didn't want them in the beginning, and Dr. Fauci has made it very clear why he said that early on.

Here is how he addressed it last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Contrary to what we thought, masks really do work in preventing infection.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No doubt?

FAUCI: No doubt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So when you find out that you were wrong, you don't double down?

FAUCI: No, when you find out you're wrong, it's a manifestation of your honesty to say, hey, I was wrong, I did subsequent experiments and now it's this way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: I have to say, in watching that moment, the first thought I had was, he used the word honesty, that that was really a leader who we were seeing there. And the upside, I will say, for the country at this point is that so many people do look to Dr. Fauci as a leader on what needs to be done. It's just a matter of us being able to hear from him.

WEN: It's honesty, it's humility. It's also recognition that science changes. I mean, constantly reevaluation is actually the bedrock of a good public health response. At the beginning of this pandemic, I and many others, including Dr. Fauci, didn't know about the importance of mask-wearing to control this coronavirus, because we didn't know at that time about asymptomatic spread. We didn't know about aerosol transmission. We thought that it was people who were sneezing and coughing, who looked like they were symptomatic who were transmitting this virus.

Now we know that you don't have to look sick, that you can just expel this virus through these droplets just by breathing and speaking. That's why the recommendation around masks has changed. I think the American people, just like people all over the world, understand that when science changes, you change your recommendations. But that kind of communication has to be direct. We always have to explain to people what we know, what we don't know and what we're going to do about it. And that type of communication is what breeds trust. And trust is bedrock too of a public health response.

BERMAN: Can we put the map up again so people can see this. They can see how the country is doing. And I think it's somewhat instructive about where we are now as compared to where we've been in different points in this pandemic. You can see a lot of orange and red there. Those are the states where the number of cases are rising, by a substantial amount, beige is where it's static and green, which I just think is Vermont and Hawaii at this point, the only two states which are headed in the right direction.

But what's notable about this, Dr. Wen, is it's everywhere, right? It's spread across the country where you are seeing a rising in new cases. You are seeing it headed in the wrong direction. And it's the everywhereness of it, which I know isn't a scientific term, which is what is concerning public health experts this morning. This is a broad increase in cases. This is a broad increase in hospitalizations. What you unique challenges will that pose over the next 6 to 12 weeks? WEN: Well, in the beginning, when we had outbreaks that were located to certain parts of the country, you could focus your resources and your attention there. And, unfortunately, we did not suppress the level of infection enough when it was just in the northeast or just in the south and southwest and Sun Belt. And now it really is diffusely across the country. And we still don't have a national response.

We're also in a situation too where our public health system is so strained.

[07:10:00]

We have no ability to do the kind of surveillance testing that we need. We have test positivity in over a dozen states that's in the double digits, which means that we're not doing nearly enough testing with no ability to ramp up that testing. And we could get to a point where our hospital systems all over the country become strained and overburdened and patients are unable to get the care that they need.

I mean, that is the worst-case scenario that we could be facing. But I think it's important for us to note that that doesn't have to happen, that there are things that each of us can do today, that does involve wearing masks, continue to practice physical distancing, avoiding crowded gatherings, and being really careful in our daily lives. Those who we love and trust may very well have the virus too. There's no face of someone who looks like they have coronavirus. We can all do our part.

BERMAN: Great point. Anyone can get it and I think, anecdotally, people know now that their friends, their family, everyone is vulnerable to this. Dr. Wen, thanks so much for being with us this morning.

WEN: Thank you.

BERMAN: So 15 days left to vote. We have new information, fresh reporting on what the campaigns are doing, what will matter most and what has insiders the most nervous. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:15:00]

BERMAN: 15 days left to vote in America and we have new reporting on what the campaigns are doing and what might change the trajectory of this race.

Joining me now, CNN Political Commentators Paul Begala and Scott Jennings. Also with us, CNN Political Analyst Alex Burns, he's a National Political Correspondent for The New York Times.

And, Alex, we woke you up. We got you out of bed for this this morning. Why? Because you have new reporting on what President Trump is doing in these closing days and the concerns in some cases that it's raising. So tell us your report. ALEX BURNS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, John, my colleague, Maggie Haberman, and I have a story describing the sense in the Trump campaign, and I think especially in the broader Republican Party establishment that the president is simply not driving a real focused message at this stage in the race, that he's not doing debate prep in any formal sense ahead of his last debate with Joe Biden, which most Republicans, I think, see as the last real chance to affect a major shift in the race.

And there's deepening concern on Capitol Hill that because the president seems to be spending his time on the equivalent of a kind of political joy ride around the country, holding these rallies, just kind of riffing and entertaining and revving up his core supporters without even making, you know, a nominal effort to reach out to new voters, that that could really harm Republicans down ballot, and that the president doesn't seem particularly concerned about the possibility that if the race stays as it is today, he is not just likely to lose himself, but he is likely to drag down a whole lot of other folks in winnable races with him.

BERMAN: We just happen to have a Republican with us who talks to people up and down ballot. There you go. Scott Jennings, what are you hearing? So you hear Alex's reporting here. You're talking to people. What do you hear?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, there is concern, obviously. I mean, anybody can read a poll. The national polls don't look good. State polls are closer, but they don't look good either. And there's also a concern, of course, about the president's television spending, which has eclipsed by Vice President Biden's campaign.

So, yes, I mean, there's a lot of concern out there on the tactical front. There's also a lot of concern on the messaging front. The president spends a lot of time talking about things that aren't Joe Biden's record and plans, vis-a-vis his own. And the way you try to run a race where your job approval is under 50 percent is to frame it up as a choice about the future, my policies versus the other person's policies.

And right now, the president is talking about anything other than that. It's all sort of collapsing as a referendum on him, which is the frame that the Biden campaign always wanted. So you put all of these things together and, yes, there's a lot nervousness in the party.

Now, I think Trump people would tell you that they're driving enthusiasm and interest among people who didn't vote in 2016. They've had success doing voter registration in a lot of the swing states, and I do think that is true. But the question is, is that enough to overcome a polling gap like we're seeing today.

BERMAN: Paul, I have to say, as much as I love reading Alex's reporting every morning, when I look at The Times and I see the number of new cases of coronavirus in the country and the trend lines on hospitalizations in the country, and that nearly 220,000 Americans have died, you know, if we were at 70,000 cases on Friday, we could be at 85,000 cases by November 3rd. What on earth else will matter on Election Day?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, right, that's the challenge for the president. He has been unable to get his arms around COVID. And worse than that, he has persuaded seniors, for example, which is one of his most reliable cohorts in the electorate, he's persuaded them that he's doing a terrible job, maybe because he is. And so he's lost his advantage with seniors. He's losing voters he already had.

Scott is right. He seems to be drive his base. He's losing. He's losing his base, he's losing those seniors, he's losing women in the latest CNN poll by 34 points. Not that he has 34, he's losing them by 34. And COVID is driving all of that.

And so as he continues this denialism, as he mocks us for wearing masks to protect ourselves and our neighbors, he's just going to continue, I think, to fall.

BERMAN: Yes. I mean, Scott Atlas, who apparently is the one guy the president is listening to on coronavirus, medical Rasputin, you might want to call him at this point. Over the weekend, he put out a tweet criticizing masks. There is a report out that he is criticizing the idea of increasing testing. And this morning, Alex, he is quoting George Orwell in a tweet. Scott atlas is quoting George Orwell. He goes, the party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears, it was your final and most essential command.

I don't know whether this is irony, I don't know whether it's a little bit too on the nose when Scott Atlas is quoting George Orwell, but it's emblematic, I think, of the president in some cases leaning into the very things that will hurt him politically.

[07:20:11]

BURNS: Absolutely. And that is really the story of this campaign in a lot of ways and of the administration's response to the coronavirus.

John, I was talking to a Republican lawmaker last week about exactly this subject, who was saying that, look, the president's hospitalization was handled terribly by the White House, terribly by government medical officials, terribly by the White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, who according to our reporting is really on the rocks right now.

But it was an opportunity for the president himself, if he had been so inclined, to show just this much empathy and self-awareness about what had happened to him and what is happening to the rest of the country and, you know, not necessarily transform the race as a result, but maybe give at least a couple of people out there an opportunity to say, maybe I misjudged this guy, maybe he just didn't get it and it sure seems like he gets it now.

But you know what? If based on what the president was saying a month ago, you didn't think he got it on the coronavirus, I don't hear anything from him today. I don't think anybody hears anything from him today that suggest that he has suddenly reached some -- a new level of sensitivity and awareness about this disease.

BERMAN: Yes. He literally, we played in the last segment, attacked Joe Biden for following science, as if science is somehow a bad thing here.

Paul, there's other stuff that's being said on the campaign trail, and I don't want to play it, because he's attaching Gretchen Whitmer and there were lock her up chants at his rally last night, and Governor Whitmer was concerned, I think, about this, given that there was an alleged plot to kidnap her and maybe execute her, she was concerned. So listen to her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): You know, it's incredibly disturbing that the president of the United States ten days after a plot to kidnap, put me on trial and execute me, ten days after that was uncovered, the president is at it again and inspiring and incentivizing and inciting this kind of domestic terrorism. It is wrong. It's got to end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: The impact of those words, Paul?

BEGALA: Well, she's exactly right. That's simply factual. Right-wing terrorism, right-wing domestic terrorism focused on -- committed by right-wing actors is a real threat. The Trump administration's domestic threat assessment, not his domestic, his homeland threat assessment, 2020, says this. Domestic violent extremists present the most persistent and lethal threat.

Now, I used to work in the White House. Scott used to work in the White House. The president is briefed on those threats. His staff is briefed on those threats. And yet he is fanning those flames. It is absolutely reprehensible. I mean, I live in Virginia here. Our governor, Ralph Northam, was also reportedly targeted by those alleged terrorists. This is not playing around.

And I saw a spokesperson for his campaign say, oh, he was just having fun at a rally. It's not fun. He is -- he is feeding terrorists. He is encouraging terrorists. And I just, it's certainly reprehensible as a president. I have to say, it's pretty stupid as a political strategy. There are not a lot of pro-terrorist voters in the Republican Party or the Democratic Party. And so it's a terrible political strategy, but even worse than that, he's endangering his fellow Americans, which is violating the first principle of being president.

BERMAN: Scott, what do you think of it as a closing message?

JENNINGS: Well, I mean, I wanted to pick up on Paul's political strategy point. Everything Donald Trump says that is not casting his future plans versus those of Joe Biden's, I'll cut your taxes, Joe Biden will raise them. I'll do this, Joe Biden will do that. Every time he's focused on anything other than that, he is losing. He needs to frame and cast this race as a choice about the future and who can get the economy back to where it was pre-COVID. That's it, period. That's what he has to do.

So whether you're talking about the governor of Michigan or you're attacking Ben Sasse or whatever you're doing out there that is not focused on that framing, it's a lost hour, a lost moment, a lost day, a lost news cycle and it's going to hurt the president.

So I would humbly suggest, focus on Joe Biden, focus on your policies and lay out a second-term agenda and cast it against the radical, liberal ideas and you might have a chance.

BERMAN: You keep saying, focus on Joe Biden, which makes it all the more interesting, Alex, on what the former vice president is choosing to do over the next few days, which is what exactly?

BURNS: Well, it's really to dig in on debate prep. I think that Democrats and the Biden campaign feel that they are comfortably ahead in this race, not as comfortably, they say, as media polls suggest, but that they are sort of in control right now. And so the best thing that they can do to bring this home is to deny the president the chance to retake control. And the last really big opportunity he has to do that is the debate on Thursday.

[07:25:04]

You know, to Scott's point though about focusing on Joe Biden, it also matters how he focuses on Joe Biden. And the Republicans I talked to, and I think based on what he just said, Scott would probably agree with this, that the president going out there and taunting Joe Biden about his son and waving around these stories in The New York Post that have not been substantiated to make personal attacks on Biden and the Biden family.

You know, I don't know a whole lot of folks outside the Trump inner circle who believe that that is a winning message. And even some folks in the Trump inner circle would really rather that he focus on the economy. When you talk to Republicans in the states, people who are directing these close Senate races and close House races, they look at the Hunter Biden story and they say, you know, that is red meat for people who are already for you. We would love it if you would talk to some people who aren't already for you about issues like economic recovery.

BERMAN: Alex, Scott, Paul, we appreciate you being with us this morning. Alex, thanks for waking up, making a special parachute appearance. Thank you.

Hospitalizations on the rise in Texas, so where are things headed in that state? The mayor of Austin joins us next.

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[07:30:00]