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Feds Say Russia And Iran Have Interfered With The Presidential Election; Obama Goes After Trump In Sharpest Attacks Yet With 13 Days Left In Election; CDC Revises Definition Of Close Contact With COVID- 19 Sufferers To Include Multiple, Brief Exposures. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired October 21, 2020 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: The news continues. Want to hand it over to Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME."

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TEXT: BREAKING NEWS.

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CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: All right, thank you, Anderson.

I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.

We have breaking news on our watch. Both Iran and Russia are actively interfering with our election right now. This comes from the Head of our Intelligence Community just tonight.

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JOHN RATCLIFFE, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: We would like to alert the public that we have identified that two foreign actors, Iran and Russia, have taken specific actions, to influence public opinion, relating to our elections. We have already seen Iran sending spoofed emails, designed to intimidate voters, incite social unrest and damage President Trump.

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CUOMO: Now, we reported last night on those emails from what looked like a Proud Boys account. They were sent to voters in Florida and elsewhere, threatening them to vote for Trump. Officials say those were not from the Proud Boys. The Proud Boys themselves have denied any involvement in this.

But our officials say they are from Iran. But then, the Director of National Intelligence also said there was an additional motive to hurt Trump. We've seen no evidence of that and none was offered.

The House Homeland Security Committee tweeted this in response. "DO NOT listen to Ratcliffe. Partisan hack," and followed up to say that Americans should listen to the FBI Director instead.

Now, about the emails we have seen, our government says, again, Iran is behind messages like this. I say it twice because a lot of you are getting them. And, yes, they are threatening, whether you are in Florida, or Alaska, or wherever they're going now. It is not from the Proud Boys, according to Iran, all right?

Now, you will see threats in these emails. "If you don't vote for Trump, we have your information. We know where you live. We will come after you." A lot of people who were getting these have already voted. But still, very scary to receive one, I'm sure.

The choice to use the Proud Boys is also relevant. It is proof that the President's influence, at home, and abroad, is real because he talked this group up, and he made them a target of opportunity for our enemies.

Remember his message to the hateful Proud Boys of "Stand back and Stand by," at the last debate. Now we know at least one foreign actor was listening.

These foreign efforts are expected, by the way. We saw them in 2016. We see them all the time. What's not expected is for their goal to be given a boost by our President. No word from him about these findings tonight.

And the timing, of these findings, also very interesting, they come as President Obama hit the trail today for Joe Biden. And he gave the most forceful case against Trump that we've heard in this campaign.

We have all the high points and analysis of what former President Obama said, but we have to see just how big a shadow he will cast over Trump's fate in this election. Certainly, Obama seemed more concerned, about our national security, from events like this tonight, before the revelations, than Trump has even after them.

So, let's discuss the threat level, involved in what we learned tonight, in this breaking news, and what can be done about it. Let's bring in Andrew McCabe and James Clapper.

Gentlemen, thank you very much.

So, we heard from the DNI and the FBI. They said Iran and Russia got their hands on voter information. Andrew, what does that mean, voter information? How invasive do we believe this can be? What can they do with this kind of information?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR, FBI: Well, that's a - that's a really good question, Chris. It's not clear from the statements we got at the press conference, tonight, exactly how the Iranians or the Russians accessed voter information.

There is some voter information that's pretty easily acquired online. That's very different from actually probing the voter registration databases of individual states and staging a cyber-intrusion into those systems and stealing information.

That's the sort of activity that we saw back in 2016. We know the Russians probed the voter registration databases of every state. If that's what's happening here - and, again, it's not clear that that's what - that's not how they described it.

Altering voter registration information can be a very serious threat because you could essentially eliminate many people from the voter rolls, and then when they show up on Election Day, they don't get to cast a vote.

CUOMO: Right.

MCCABE: But the statement was pretty vague.

CUOMO: Right.

MCCABE: Just simply said that they had acquired voter information.

CUOMO: Jim, first of all, great to see you. Thank you for being on the show tonight.

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And the idea of what Andrew is talking about that this was a little vague, does that mean they're still developing an understanding of this situation, or is this about also how much you tell the American public about the risk?

JAMES CLAPPER, FORMER DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, unfortunately, Chris, you have to wonder about what were the ulterior motives at work here. Why a sudden press conference, which evidence itself on the heels of President Obama's pretty historic speech. So--

CUOMO: Good.

CLAPPER: And I just wonder--

CUOMO: I'm glad you said it, Jim, because I didn't want to seem cynical about it.

But the timing is a little curious, right? They've known about these emails. They could have told us about this. They could have flushed more of it out, so that it wasn't so vague about what they were able to pass on. And yet it came tonight. It's interesting, Jim, that you see that as a little suspicious as well.

CLAPPER: Well, I do, just given the track record of DNI Ratcliffe, where he's used Intelligence for political purposes. So, unfortunately, I hate to say it, but you have to address what he says with some skepticism.

And just to add-on to what Andy said about what happened in 2016, the Russians, we saw reconnoitered, I'll put it that way, voter registration rolls, which weren't all that hard to penetrate. We saw, I think, well some 39 states, and they probably did it with

all 50. So, they know how to do it. And I remember our speculating about what the purpose was for some future use, so just a historical note here.

The other thing about the statement that the DNI made was that he just mentioned Russia, and then went on to Iran.

Well, Russia has been interfering in the run-up to the election all along, so that's not a startling revelation. And he didn't amplify that. And I would continue to believe that Russia poses far more of a threat. And I see - I think we're going to see more of this.

And as to the ascription that this somehow hurts President Trump, well, I can make the case that it helps him. So--

CUOMO: Well, certainly the Proud Boys stuff helps him because it's scaring people, who obviously were sent messages because they didn't vote for him.

What I found a little unusual, I'll bounce it back to Andy, and then obviously, Jim, whatever you want to add, please, we have the emails. I reported on them last night with one of our reporters about what we had learned so far.

No proof offered of the intentions to hurt Trump. Why not? You know that this is going to be something where people are only going to want to know what you can show.

You showed the emails. Why didn't you show what supposedly was being put out there that was bad for Trump? They had to know, if you don't put down any proof, it smacks of politics.

MCCABE: It really does.

And I'll tell you, from my own experience, having been through the process with Director Clapper, in 2016, the Intelligence Community doesn't come out with an official analytical judgment along the lines of, "You know, the Iranians were trying to hurt President Trump," without rock-solid evidence to prove that.

And we got none of that evidence tonight from DNI Ratcliffe, who has proven himself, to be a overtly political influence on the Intelligence process with the things that he's been involved in over the last couple weeks, releasing Intelligence for political purposes.

So, it's hard to imagine how the two instances he cited, in his comments, actually hurt President Trump. The Proud Boys issue that you mentioned and, also, he said that there was indications that Iran had a video that implied that people could cast fraudulent ballots from overseas.

That also supports a main line of President Trump's argument that the election could be replete with fraud. So, I am not buying it, at this point. I think we should all kind of have a skeptical eye at that until we see some proof. CUOMO: Right. And also, look, you guys are a blessing tonight, because you represent the two schools that were out there, tonight, the two different institutions.

And, Jim, not only did they not offer any proof, but there are two other suggestions.

One, Wray did not echo, the Head of the FBI, did not echo what Ratcliffe said. He did not talk about the threat posed by Iran. And he doubled down, because he had said this before, on "Don't believe internet reports about votes not counting or the election being messed with."

Now, here's the weird part about that. We don't need Iran or Russia to plant that idea in our head. The President bangs on it all the time. What's more menacing to people's state of mind than their own leader telling them that it's fraudulent?

CLAPPER: Yes. That's the unfortunate thing. Another unfortunate dimension of this is that the - unfortunately, these foreign narratives agree with the President and vice versa. That's really unfortunate.

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But the bigger point here, Chris, to me, is that it would really be nice if we could just take at face value, when the Director of National Intelligence, and the Director of FBI, come out at a special - quickly-called press conference.

And it would be so nice if we could just accept what they said, at face value, and not spend all this time parsing and trying to analyze what's really going on. And that, to me, is a sad commentary.

CUOMO: And then, some more sad commentary, "The Washington Post" has reporting, Andy, that the President is increasingly upset with Christopher Wray and thinking about replacing him as the Head of the FBI. This can't help because I'm sure he didn't like that he wasn't in line with the DNI tonight.

And he doesn't probably - again, this is just crazy world that we're living in. But, yes, these words are about to come out of my mouth. The President of the United States probably didn't like the Head of the FBI saying not to worry about our election being fraudulent, your votes will count.

That is a bizarro world, but that is Trump's disposition. He wants people not to trust the count. What does that mean if he were to get rid of Wray over something like this? You don't think he'd do it before the election?

MCCABE: Well I think it's unlikely he'll do it before the election. But you know he's - really, anything is possible with this President at any moment.

What do we know about this President? We know that he really doesn't like it when the people who work for him say things that he disagrees with or things that he finds to be uncomfortable.

Chris Wray went on national television, in this press conference, and made statements that directly contradict the President's false narrative about fraud in - voting fraud and electoral fraud. That is not going to be taken well by this President.

I can tell you from personal experience, he does not like it when people don't tow the political line that he prefers. So, even if the election doesn't go his way, it is possible that he comes in, after the election, and removes the Director simply out of spite.

CUOMO: Hey, Jim, last question, and I'll let you guys go. Thank you so much on such a busy night.

Do you think it makes it more or less likely that the President has been outspoken about wanting the Attorney General to investigate Biden even after the DoJ passed on its latest investigation in terms of bringing any charges about unmasking, and that him saying he wants Director Wray at the FBI, to investigate Biden, do you think that actually makes it less likely that it happens because it would look so overtly political?

CLAPPER: Well, exactly. And it seems to me it's sort of counter - from the President's perspective, it's sort of counterproductive for his purposes to say things like that, which I don't - you know, I just don't think are going to happen. In fact, the Attorney General says so.

So, I don't understand - well, like so many things, I don't understand about the President, why he's doing that, and how that helps his cause.

CUOMO: How could you have ever believed we would be having a conversation on national television about foreign adversaries doing things to interfere in the election that are less damaging than what our own President has been saying about our election process? That's where we are, Gentlemen.

CLAPPER: Yes.

CUOMO: But thank you for making sense of it for the audience tonight. I appreciate it. Andrew McCabe, James Clapper, the best to both families. God bless. All right.

CLAPPER: Thank you.

CUOMO: So, Joe Biden has a not-secret-at-all weapon, who hit the hustings today, with righteous fury, for the country, former President Barack Obama.

He hadn't been there a lot. He wasn't there early on, but, boy, did he make his presence felt today. He said things not just about this President, but about this country, in a way that we have never seen.

What will this mean for the outcome of this election? We haven't seen a bigger influence on Biden's fate, as we saw tonight, and maybe the President's as well.

Two of our sharpest minds will take us through what we saw today, all the highlights for you, and the implications, next.

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CUOMO: There are so many people around the country who are desperate for something to sway them in what is absolutely a binary choice. This country is going to move in one of two very different directions after this election.

And for those who are open, boy did they get a powerful solicitation tonight, former President Obama unplugged and unloading on Trump and the status quo.

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BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He hasn't shown any interest in doing the work, or helping anybody but himself, and his friends, or treating the presidency like a reality show that he can use to get attention. And, by the way, even then, his TV ratings are down. So you know that upsets him.

We know that he continues to do business with China because he's got a secret Chinese bank account. How is that possible? How is that possible, a secret Chinese bank account?

Listen, can you imagine if I had had a secret Chinese bank account when I was running for reelection? You think - you think - you think Fox News might have been a little concerned about that? They would've called me "Beijing Barry."

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CUOMO: And he was just getting warmed up. You got to hear what he said about the President's character and the pandemic, two very, very big issues for a lot of voters. But, look, he's not running, right? I'm sure, a lot of Democrats would be more happy, if he were.

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But Biden, Obama's case was, is the closest thing to him that you have certainly in this election. Biden is going to have to deliver the knock-out. I know they say he's getting ready for the debate, and it's a big night for him tomorrow night.

But eventually, he's going to have to make his own luck here. He's either going to have to win people over or get put on the mat himself, and a big part of it is going to happen tomorrow night.

Why? Come on! You don't have to be an analyst for this. It's the last best hope for both Biden and Trump to make an impact on you versus the other.

But remember the real enemy, especially for this President, is the pandemic. Will he be able to hide from it? Everybody thinks it's going to be about Biden and his son. I think it's just as likely to be about this President and the pandemic.

Dana Bash, Tim O'Brien, here tonight, thank you very much, lot of news breaking all over it.

Dana, fair assessment, that this was a different Obama than we've seen post-presidency?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. This is a different former president than I think any that we've seen, certainly in modern times. This is - is breaks the "Former President" code, and this is a former president, who clearly does not do that lightly.

I mean all of our reporting and everything that we've seen and heard from him, up until, I think, the Convention, but certainly, until today was that he didn't want to wade into the political pool too often, even though he felt that his successor poses an existential threat to democracy. I mean, they're nothing short of that.

But now it's different. Now it's time for him to make that argument, to get out there. It's time to get people to vote. So, it was a complete combination of getting people fired up, to use his term, to convince members of the Democratic base who just aren't sure.

I mean, he articulated this. "Am I going to make a difference? Yes, you are. Do I really think this is a guy - this is the guy? Yes, he is." And then just a total take-down, as you played, of President Trump, in a way that I don't think that we ever expected, in our lifetime, we would see and hear from a former president about his successor.

CUOMO: Well, let's be honest, it's necessary for Joe Biden.

BASH: Yes. I mean I'm not saying that it was a - it was a bad thing, making judgment on that. I think it's a sign of the times.

CUOMO: Yes.

BASH: We're exactly there.

CUOMO: Certainly a sign of the state of play. So, Tim, he hit him with a one-two punch today in very simple fighting parlance. He hit him on the man, and then he hit him on his main mission, which is the pandemic.

First, let me play what he said about Trump, the man.

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OBAMA: Why are folks making excuses for that? "Oh, well, that's just - that's just him." No, it's - no. There are consequences to these actions.

They embolden other people to be cruel, and divisive, and racist, and it frays the fabric of our society, and it affects how our children see things. And it affects the ways that our families get along. It affects how the world looks at America. That behavior matters. Character matters.

(AUDIENCE SHOUTS "YES!")

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CUOMO: I'll tell you what, systemic inequality, racism is not new. But having people run around the streets, the way they are right now, in righteous indignation, because of what this President does, on both sides, is certainly a fomenting that we never saw under any past president since the '60s.

What is the relevance of this kind of attack from Obama, about Trump, Tim?

TIMOTHY O'BRIEN, AUTHOR, "TRUMPNATION," SENIOR COLUMNIST, BLOOMBERG OPINION: Well I am, you know, I imagine that Barack Obama has been siting on these thoughts, and emotions, for quite some time.

Let's think back to the dignity and grace Obama displayed, during the transition, after Trump was elected and on Inauguration Day. He didn't go anywhere remotely close to where he went today.

And in the span of time since then, you had Donald Trump, in the Oval Office, openly embracing financial conflicts of interest, undermining a number of U.S. institutions, smearing our reputation abroad, and flagrantly embracing racism and bigotry.

I am - I have to suspect that this is almost therapeutic for Barack Obama to finally be able to speak about what's on his mind, that Donald Trump lacks the character, integrity, and composure to sit in the Oval Office.

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And you can say anything you want about ideological differences with Barack Obama, partisan differences with Barack Obama. He is an immensely sophisticated and dignified man, and couldn't be more of a polar opposite from Trump. And I think that's important to highlight right - and contrast, right now, for American voters.

CUOMO: I think he gave us a little bit of a window into what Biden is going to bring tomorrow night as his main--

BASH: Yes.

CUOMO: --missile against the President. It's going to be the pandemic. I still believe the big opposition for Trump is not Biden. It's the pandemic.

Here is what Obama said about the response.

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OBAMA: Look, I get that this President wants full credit for the economy he inherited, and zero blame for the pandemic that he ignored. But you know what? The job doesn't work that way.

Tweeting at the television doesn't fix things. Making stuff up doesn't make people's lives better. You've got to have a plan. You've got to put in the work, and along with the experience to get things done.

Joe Biden has concrete plans and policies that will turn our vision of a better, fairer, stronger country into a reality.

We literally left this White House a pandemic playbook that would have shown them how to respond before the virus reached our shores. They probably used it to, I don't know, prop up a wobbly table somewhere. We don' know where that playbook went.

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CUOMO: So, Trump is going to come long and strong on Hunter Biden tomorrow night. We know it.

And I don't know how Biden will deal with the irony that Trump wants to talk about sons, and how money is made, and what is abusive. But I don't know that Biden is better-served by going head-to-head about family and fiduciary responsibility or just keep going back to the pandemic.

What do you think, Dana?

BASH: From all of my reporting, the former Vice President has been extremely reluctant to do an eye for an eye, meaning, "Oh, yes, you're going to talk about my kids? Let's talk about your kids, who are working in the White House," and it could go on from there.

Having said that, I think President Obama did give us a little bit of a window into one potential line of attack or a retort, which is the story that we've seen this week about the allegations that President Obama has money in a Chinese bank account and pay taxes in China.

I mean, the fact that Obama brought that up is certainly a signal that his former Number Two is going to do that as well, and is going to try to pivot as much as possible every time Trump brings up - brings up his son's name.

Unclear if he can do that. I mean he was supposed to try to ignore the attacks on his son--

CUOMO: Right.

BASH: --at the first debate, and he couldn't do it. One other thing I would want to tell you because, right before coming on, I got, we all probably got, on our email a advisory from the Biden campaign.

President Obama is going to do another event, on Saturday, in Florida. So, he's going - he's kind of hopscotching to the key puzzle pieces that the Biden campaign have out there on their, you know, on their map where they need to win.

Trump needs to win Florida. He probably needs to win Pennsylvania, if he's going to - if he's going to defeat Donald Trump.

CUOMO: Yes. I think - I think Pennsylvania is the state to watch.

I'm out of time. Thank you very much, Dana. Tim O'Brien, as always, appreciate you being here on short notice. I'll see you both really soon.

Another important story tonight, so I got to keep it moving tonight, Coronavirus. The CDC just gave out new information, refining the risk of what kind of contact matters, OK, especially with somebody who's positive.

Now, this has been changing over time, and it's going to change once again, and I think it's important for us to kind of consider what they're telling us now, and how it will work in everyday life.

The Chief Doctor is here, Sanjay Gupta. We're going to have to change our habits. Let's talk about it, next.

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CUOMO: Cases are up more than the experts expected at this point in the fall and in more places. Hospitalization - hospitalization rates are on the rise, and that's a lagging indicator, so that means by the time we find that out, we know we have trouble. Now comes new information regarding how COVID-19 is being transmitted. The CDC's new guidelines redefine close contact with an infected person.

So, what does that mean, close contact with an infected person? It now includes multiple brief exposures that add up to 15 minutes, instead of only continuous contact for a long time.

Let's bring in Chief Doctor Sanjay Gupta for more on this guidance.

Now, first it was "Don't touch things. You can get it." We moved past that. This isn't so much a touch thing. It's aerosolized.

And then it was, "But you have to be around a person for a long time." And we had this scenario of "I'd rather give someone a hug, and walk on, than talk to somebody in close setting for several minutes."

Now they're saying that period of about 15 minutes is relevant, but you can get to it episodically, and not just in one contact. Is that right?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean that's basically it, Chris. And, in some ways, it's always been a bit arbitrary, I think, as you are sort of alluding to, right?

I mean, if you have 15-minute contact, what if the person sneezes in the middle of that, after a minute? Does that change anything? What if you are five feet away instead of six feet away? It always felt a bit arbitrary. And I think that that - this guidance now is sort of reflecting that.

I'll just show you quick. You just sort of talked about it, Chris, but I'll just show people.

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Again, what was close contact? Within six feet, for at least 15 minutes. Now, cumulative total of 15 minutes, or more, over a 24-hour period. So, it kind of better reflects, I think, what we have been told, which is that you should wear a mask.

This is really about masks ultimately. This whole guidance is about masks, basically saying wear a mask. Even if you think you're going to be around somebody for just a few minutes, wear a mask.

CUOMO: All right. And look, we know that masks have been politicized, and we know that people are very happy about that, especially on the Right. But it's about fatigue as much as it's about masks now, right, Sanjay? I mean people have had it. The President is right about that.

And we're coming up to the holidays. And people are not going to want to be wearing masks. They're going to say, "Look, I know all these people. Nobody here's been sick. I'm going to be OK. And we'll keep it smart while we're together."

And more and more, the clusters aren't community spread of massive populations. They're little micro clusters of exactly what we all do in the holidays. So, how big a deal is this changing guidance now?

GUPTA: Well I think it's a pretty big deal, Chris. And this isn't easy. I mean I've been going through this with my own family, trying to figure out the holidays. Maybe you have as well.

The issue is this. I mean if it's your own family cluster that you've been with the whole time, obviously that's not the concern, because you've been with folks within your own family, living in the same household, for months now.

If you start to bring in other people, parents, perhaps vulnerable, my parents are in their late 70s, I think that that's going to be a concern.

It's going to be very hard, certainly to maintain distance. It's going to be hard to be outside because it's cold. I think if you are doing dinner, you can't obviously mask. So, it's a challenging proposition.

People have asked me, "What is the best way to do it? I absolutely want to meet with my family over the holidays. How could I possibly do it?"

First of all, I tell them that I'm not, having gone through the iterations myself.

But if you wanted to do it, you'd probably want to get tested, then go into, essentially, a quarantine, for 14 days, possibly get tested again, after that, at the point where you visit. You want to be wearing masks as much as possible. Be outside as much as possible. Open windows to increase ventilation and try and keep distance.

Doesn't sound like a very fun holiday, is my point, and there is a lot of hurdles to jump through. Chris, I mean this year is going to be tough. I think this year is a wash.

Next year Thanksgiving, I mean I hope I can spend it with my family, and you can spend it with yours. I think it's just going to be tough this year, and it won't feel like a very good holiday, having gone through all those hoops.

CUOMO: Well, look, they changed it for a reason. They're changing it right before the holidays, just taking into consideration. It's not just one piece of contact. Little contacts can add up. It's just more - one more reason for us to fight the fatigue if we want to get better.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you very much.

GUPTA: Yes.

CUOMO: None of this is easy. Nobody is saying it is.

GUPTA: You got it, Chris.

CUOMO: Trump and Biden aren't the only ones focused on the last 13 days of this election. McConnell, Pelosi, Schumer, McCarthy, they are all wondering if we're about to see a massive shakeup in the control of Congress. What's the chance?

The Wizard of Odds has been looking at the down-ballot races, where they matter, and why they matter. He's got his special Data Goggles on, next.

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CUOMO: So, former VP Joe Biden is up an average of 11 percentage points in CNN's latest poll of polls. You know what that is, the major polls taking the average of all of them. Now, some will question that, especially seeing how the popular vote doesn't win the election. I'm with you.

I say we may appreciate the state of play in the presidential election better by looking down-ballot, meaning looking at the battles in different states, on the congressional level. What's going on in different areas and why?

Can Democrats keep and grow their majority in the House? What are their chances of flipping the Senate? The more seats flip, the more we get a suggestion of the electorate in the presidential race as well. So, to go through them, the Wizard of Odds, Harry Enten with his newest forecast.

It's good to see you, brother. Let's start with the Senate. The Democrats need a net gain of three, unless Trump is re-elected. And then they need four. What do you see?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER & ANALYST: Sure. So essentially, look, these are the polling averages and essentially, as you said, the Democrats need a net gain of three.

And if you look at the Republican pickups, we're going to give the Republicans, Alabama. So essentially, they're going to need at least four of the seats on the left side of your screen.

And look at that. They are leading in five, in fact five Republican- held seats right now, Arizona, Colorado, Iowa, Maine and North Carolina, but it's a race within the margin of error, because you can see Iowa and North Carolina specifically are close, they're two-point and three-point races. The question is why are Democrats in this position to pick up the

majority? And I think you see it really well when you look at those five pickup opportunities, and look at the presidential race in those states.

And what you see in those states, at this particular point is, look here, look, in all the states where the Democrats are leading right now, their pickup opportunities, Joe Biden is also leading, and the differences across those seats tend to be rather small.

So, to me, it's a pretty clear sign that President Trump is dragging down Republican senators with him.

CUOMO: All right. So, if we take a look, so we see that that kind of echoes what we see in the main race, fine.

[21:45:00]

Now, House races, Republicans, 197 House seats, they need 218 to win control. How are the Republicans looking at moving that House?

ENTEN: Yes. It ain't going to happen. I mean, if the Senate race is within the margin of error, and you might even argue that the presidential race is still within some version of the margin of error, on the House side, I'm just not seeing it, right?

The 2018 outcome was Democrats had 235. That's obviously dropped with some vacancies. But take a look at the forecast for this year, and you can see Democrats are, in fact, favored to win 240 seats.

So, if anything, if we're looking at, come November 3rd, I'm expecting that Democrats will in fact increase their majority in the House of Representatives.

CUOMO: You kind of slipped one past me there.

But when you said that on the Senate side, it could be that Trump is pulling them down, because you see an echo effect between his numbers in the states and theirs, flush that out a little bit better for us with this Trump connection slide number four.

ENTEN: Yes. So, look here, this is the House of Representatives.

And I think these are three districts that Trump won in 2016. They flipped from a GOP Representative to Democratic in 2018, although NJ- 02 that race is - excuse me, the incumbent there is actually flipped. Jeff Van Drew has become a Republican now.

But take a look here. Look at the poll. The 2020 House poll on the left side, and then you can see the 2020 Pres polling, and what do you see? You see the Democratic candidate, in all those races, are leading, and Joe Biden is leading in those same polls.

And here is the key nugget here. These are, remember, districts that Trump won in 2016. So, what we see here again is Biden is flipping these districts in the polls, and in doing so, it seems that the Democratic House Members are holding on to their leads.

CUOMO: Do you see any disconnect? Do you see any place that Republicans are doing well but Trump isn't or vice versa, Biden not doing well, but the Democrats doing well?

ENTEN: Yes. I think it's really important to point out that what we have seen historically, in the last few election cycles, is that there is an increasing correlation between the results, and the top of the ballot, and then the results further down on the ballot, both on the House and Senate levels.

What I will say is there are perhaps a few Republicans, who might have household names, specifically in Pennsylvania. One, Fitzpatrick seems to be holding on. That's a district that Hillary Clinton did well in, in 2016 and Joe Biden is probably going to win by double-digits.

But to be honest, those examples are few and far between. If anything, there are more Democrats who seem to be holding on to their seats despite Trump being popular in those districts than Republicans holding on to their seats, even as Joe Biden is leading in those particular districts.

CUOMO: Let me pull you away from the numbers one step, and see if your power of perspective holds.

Former President Barack Obama was atypically aggressive today with what he was saying about President Trump. I've never heard him talk about this President. In fact, I've never heard any former president talk about a current president the way he did today. Impact?

ENTEN: I mean, look, Barack Obama is a very popular figure still, and he's a particularly popular figure among African-Americans.

And obviously, Joe Biden wants African-American support, as close to the levels as Barack Obama had in 2012, and more than that, wants the turn-out, in places like Philadelphia, Milwaukee and Detroit, those three key swing states, and the Great Lakes that we know. If Joe Biden wins those states, it's going to be awfully difficult for President Trump to win re-election.

So, will there be an impact? I don't know. But it certainly doesn't hurt, when you have someone as popular as Barack Obama campaigning for you.

CUOMO: What does the past show us about the president - the former president's ability to sway African-American or Black men as voters?

ENTEN: Yes. Look, I tend to think endorsements don't really matter that much.

But you are hitting the nail right on the head. And that is, if you look at the polling, you see that African-American men, in particular, are not as strongly associated with the Joe Biden brand as they were with the Barack Obama brand.

And if there is one weakness in Joe Biden's armor, right now, it's voters of color, particularly young African-American men, who seem to be going more into Donald Trump's corner than they were four years ago.

At this point, it won't make a major difference because Biden is so far ahead. But if the election gets closer, and it very well could, those types of small differences could make a major impact.

CUOMO: How big a deal is the Hunter Biden stuff?

ENTEN: I don't think it's a particularly big impact, to be perfectly honest with you. Voters care more about the food on their table than the problems that Hunter Biden has.

CUOMO: How about debates?

ENTEN: Debates? Look, after that first debate, what did you see? You saw that Joe Biden's lead went up by a few points.

If - this final debate, Donald Trump needs a strong performance. There's no doubt about that, because if there isn't a game-changer, then Donald Trump is looking at a big deficit, heading into the final couple of weeks here.

And the fact is, as you see it up on your screen right now, that 11- point lead, if it's anything close to that on Election Day, even if you have a polling miss the same size, as you had in 2016, it's not going to be enough for Trump to win. He needs to close the deficit, and then we'll have a conversation that President Trump has a real shot of winning, not just a theoretical one.

CUOMO: Tomorrow night has a change to how it works that is a dream of yours, a mute button, so that when you speak, I am not able to. We'll see how that plays out on the debate stage.

[21:50:00]

Always a pleasure, Wiz, Harry Enten, thank you. Be well, brother.

ENTEN: Thank you, Sir.

CUOMO: We'll be right back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.

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CUOMO: Something happened today in Philadelphia, former President Barack Obama. I think the headline should be, "Obama Strikes Back."

The President, President Trump has been having his way with Obama, twisting his legacy, and almost compulsively oriented towards negating everything Obama does.

Now it seems very clear that the former President has been listening, and he came out today, guns blasting for Trump. He attacked his character. He called out the fact that he'd failed at the pandemic, and is looking to distract from that failure.

And he also pressed the urgency of this moment. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: What we do these next 13 days will matter for decades to come.

Now, last time I was in Philadelphia, I was at the Constitution Center. And I was delivering a speech for the Democratic National Convention this year. And I said, during that speech, I've sat in the Oval Office with both of the men who are running for president. And they are very different people.

[21:55:00]

I explained that I never thought Donald Trump would embrace my vision, or continue my policies, but I did hope, for the sake of the country, that he might show some interest in taking the job seriously.

But it hasn't happened. He hasn't shown any interest in doing the work, or helping anybody but himself, and his friends, or treating the presidency like a reality show that he can use to get attention. And, by the way, even then, his TV ratings are down. So you know that upsets him.

(HONKING SOUNDS)

OBAMA: But the thing is, this is not a reality show, this is reality. And the rest of us have had to live with the consequences of him proving himself incapable of taking the job seriously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: So, he went at the man, but he also went at this moment. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Our democracy is not going to work if the people who are supposed to be our leaders lie every day, and just make things up. I mean - and we've just become numb to it, we've just become immune to it, every single day. Fact-checkers can't keep up.

And, look, this notion of truthfulness, and democracy, and citizenship, and being responsible, these aren't Republican or Democratic principles, they're American principles. They're what we're - they're what we - most of us grew up learning

from our parents and our grandparents. They're not White or Black or Latino or Asian values. They're American values, human values, and we need to reclaim them.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: We have to get those values back at the center of our public life. And we can. But to do it, we've got to turn out like never before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: He talked so long, it got dark. No, seriously. He really went through a mission statement and a referendum on this Presidency, the likes I have never heard from a former president.

Now what impact will it have? How does it help Biden? How does it help turnout? Does it hurt Trump? Compelling questions, let's bring in a compelling figure, D. Lemon. He's about to take over anyway.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST, CNN TONIGHT WITH DON LEMON: Preach, brother. I felt like I was in church with the ladies shouting on Sunday.

I'm not kidding. I had a friend who texted me who said "Obama was an assassin. Did you watch that speech?" I just - I think people were sitting at home going "It is about time." That's what I think.

CUOMO: Which people though? Because you don't expect Trump supporters to say "I forgot how much I loved that Obama."

LEMON: No.

CUOMO: Most of the people who voted for Trump--

LEMON: No.

CUOMO: --probably did so in reaction formation to Obama.

LEMON: It was like balm on a wound - salve on a wound, right, that - because you don't hear that from a former President. This is unprecedented.

There is that sort of "Bro Code," so to speak, between presidents, where you don't really talk about it, and this President did. And what he said, every single word he said was the truth.

So, I don't think anyone is persuadable at this point. There are very few people who are persuadable. And if you are undecided, right now, listen, I got to, I don't know, it's not even "The Twilight Zone." I don't know where you're living. But I think most people are decided.

But what it will serve to do is make Democrats, I think, people who - Democrats who usually wet the bed, make them feel better about the election, right? It may galvanize actually some Trump supporters. But I think, in Philadelphia, in Pennsylvania, where there are - it's a swing state, and some independent-minded voters, it may help some of those independent-minded voters, and it may help the turnout, which is what Democrats really need.

CUOMO: White voters?

LEMON: Oh, yes, of course.

CUOMO: Black male voters?

LEMON: I do - I think so.

Listen, we talk about the fringe Black male vote, right, for Donald Trump, and let's see how many people actually show up at the polls. Because I don't really know any Black men, who are going to vote for Donald Trump, except for people who have a ton of money in the bank, and maybe they're looking at some taxes, and they have - they think - here's what they think.

Unlike Black women, who are the most educated, right, of the voting bloc, who know what it's like to be in a boardroom, or in a business meeting, and have - and be mansplained, when your idea is better, and you're smarter than the man in the room.

I think what these Black men think is that "Well if I just get the money, and I just get the capital, therefore I will be equal, and I will be treated equally," they're in for a rude awakening, because it doesn't work that way. That's not exactly how it works. And women know that, especially Black women, they know that.