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Barbara Res is Interviewed about her Trump Book; Trump's Dishonesty in the Campaign; Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired October 21, 2020 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

BARBARA RES, FORMER EXECUTIVE VP FOR THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION AND AUTHOR OF "TOWER OF LIES": I had a young man waiting for me in the lobby, I was across at the building, and after I interviewed him, I saw Donald, where he grabbed someone, told me, he needs to see you. And he said, don't ever let that happen again. I don't want black kids sitting in my lobby where millionaires are coming into my apartments. So don't let it happen.

And that really, really took me aback, I have to be honest with you. And I think, to this day, and I'm not sure, I didn't choose this man because I had a better candidate that I liked that was more interesting in following up on construction, but I -- would I have hired him, you know, I probably would have.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And so when -- when Donald Trump, at the time, said things like that, I mean I know it was the '80s, did anybody ever say to him, call him on it and say, how dare you speak like that?

RES: Well, I did. I did. I said you're being ridiculous. You know, see, you had to pick your spots with Donald. And I tried to, you know, be honest about it but, you know, enrage him because what was the point of that?

I wasn't happy about it, to be honest with you, but it's also -- it's a long time ago. It was a very different time. And, you know, people say, well, why did you still work for him? You know, there was that. There weren't a lot of choices at the time, especially for a girl engineer. So I figured being there I could do more than letting him hire another racist like himself to do my job.

CAMEROTA: Yes. You also say he cannot stand the working class people who make up his base. You write, his world is personal drivers, exclusive clubs, private planes and parties, but without the MAGA hat wearing white male, he has no political career. So he created this charade, friend to the common man.

RES: Absolutely.

CAMEROTA: Give me a break. Trump can't stand the common man.

How do you -- how do you know that? RES: Well, I mean, there's a story in my book, which is very telling.

After a project structure is completed, the concrete or the steel, you have a big party celebrating that and -- and thanking the men for the work. And it's always men (INAUDIBLE). So we were planning a party and I went to see Donald with the project manager from the contractor and we talked about it and Donald was all excited about it. He said, this is great. I'm going to have this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to have this politician. Blah, blah, blah.

And we were talking about the logistics and how there were so many men working on the job, it's going to be not easy to put together. And he says, what? What? Men? What men? You're not going to have the workers here. And we said, Donald, it's for the workers. And he was like, he didn't want -- well, OK, how about just the foremen. I mean I'm going to have champagne here. I mean this is not for workers, not for the construction workers.

And, you know, that, to me, was indicative of the fact that here were these, I don't know, couple hundred maybe more people that are working very hard for him to build him a building and he -- he had no -- absolutely no feeling for them. He totally disregarded them. He had no respect for them.

CAMEROTA: And so -- so, Barbara, you worked for him for 18 years. Is the Donald Trump that you see today on your TV screen the same as the man that you worked for? Is there something that is surprising you now today?

RES: Well, that's sort of the essence of my book. I go back and talk about the seeds of what we see today being there when I was working for him way back when and because I had this very unusual relationship with him and so much access there really is no one that can speak to the Donald of that time probably better than I.

Yes, he has changed, but, again, like I said, you could always see it coming. There were some things about him that did surprise me and maybe because he's sort of protected me from this side of him. But like that -- that remark -- that Billy Bush remark back, what, way back when, in 2016, about women and, you know, that shocked me. I didn't think that, you know, he would go on TV and admit to assaulting women.

So there are things that do surprise me but things that don't surprise me. You know, they're all in the pattern. They follow the, you know, the patterns that he set.

CAMEROTA: I mean, quickly, what about all of the revelations about his taxes, that he hasn't paid taxes for many years, that he recently paid $750 taxes while he was in office. You say that he thinks that laws and things like that are for stupid people. What are -- meaning what?

RES: Yes, I absolutely agree with that. He -- you know, he thinks that every law can be skirted one way or another and he has been doing that and he's sort of gotten away with it. The taxes didn't surprise me at all. I would have -- I would have expected just that. What surprised me was a year ago, over a year ago, "The Times" did an

article about how his family set up this scam corporation to do all the repairs and stuff at the Trump buildings and they were able to take all this money out of -- out of the company and not pay, you know, estate taxes on it and stuff like that. And I was shocked to see that there were people like Maryanne and Elizabeth that -- his two sisters, who I knew pretty -- pretty well, I was so disappointed in seeing that, that they were involved in something like that.

CAMEROTA: I just want to read from the Trump side, what his communications director for the Trump campaign says about your book.

[08:35:04]

This is, quote, this is transparently a disgruntled former employee packaging a bunch of lies in a book to make money.

We only have a few seconds, Barbara, your response.

RES: My response, not disgruntled. We left on very good terms. I got a couple letters of recommendations -- wonderful letters of recommendation from Donald.

I didn't know what this was going to be like and I feel that, you know, everyone here has to do what they can to stop him from getting re-elected. And what I can do is write a book. And that's what I did.

CAMEROTA: The book, again, is called "Tower of Lies." It is out now.

Barbara Res, thank you very much for being on NEW DAY.

RES: Thank you. It was a pleasure.

CAMEROTA: A woman whose husband died of coronavirus says she has just one plea to make as Americans get ready to vote and you'll hear from her, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:40:26]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, the wife of a New Jersey police officer who died of coronavirus in May is speaking out. Police Officer Charles Roberts, known as Rob by friends and family, served on the force for 20 years. He passed away at the age of 45, leaving behind his wife Alice and three children, Shay, Natalie and Gavin.

Alice just published an op-ed in "The New Jersey Star Ledger" titled "My Husband Died Of COVID-19 And I Have Just One Plea To Make Of You."

Alice Roberts joins us now.

Alice, your piece is incredibly moving and, frankly, heartbreaking. It's about loss and it's also about love. If we can, I want to start with the love.

You met Rob 20 years ago at a charity basketball game, cops, which he was, versus teachers, which you were. Just tell me about him.

ALICE ROBERTS, HUSBAND DIED OF CORONAVIRUS: I mean, I guess the message out of that is you can meet someone when you least expect to. So I teach in the town where I grew up and it was just a charity basketball game. And we had had some practices before the big night in the high school gym and apparently on the night of the game he told his mom, that's the woman I'm going to marry. And I guess that's what happened.

BERMAN: He got exactly what he wanted. And I'm so glad that he did and the family that you were able to build together.

You wrote this piece in some ways as a message to voters and also as a message to President Trump. And you say in your mind the only thing he understands is winners and losers. So tell us, if you can, what you personally have lost.

ROBERTS: I mean, I think that's hard to put into words or even conceptualize it. I still think I'm learning. Every day I guess it hits me differently as to what I've lost. I don't think that's really measurable.

I don't think it's just what I've lost, either. I think it's what this world has lost. This world has lost a really excellent police officer, especially during a time when that's sort of important to have.

I have lost a partner. I've lost a cook. I've lost the guy who made me laugh all the time. You know, we were always joking. You know, you go into the supermarket and I saw Halloween chips and it made me laugh just because there was just so many good memories that we spent together just on ordinary things and on, you know, trips and just everyday life. You know, it went by -- it went by too fast. Everyone always says that, but it really did.

BERMAN: And, obviously, your children have lost a father and that loss is immeasurable. But also, like so many others in this country now, their lives have been upended. How?

ROBERTS: Right. I think part of my point of my article is -- is that I don't feel that Trump has lost anything, you know? And he says how sick we are of the virus. I mean, yes, we are all really sick of the virus. I can't say anyone is more sick of it than people who have lost loved ones.

So, you know, we've lost an incredible amount and I think we just stand to lose so much more in the next four years if he is re-elected. I don't think most people can say their lives have been made better during these past four years, especially not during this past year. I certainly can say my life has turned at least 90 degrees, but it's hard to tell how much more -- I hate to question that because that's a scary question, how much more can we really take?

BERMAN: You tell your story when your husband got sick and ended up in the hospital. You were only able to see him twice, just twice, once he was in the hospital, which I know has got to be incredibly painful. And you say you've only made a few pleas in your life. Up until this point, what have some of those pleas been?

ROBERTS: I mean, I think, for the most part, we had a really great life together. We were both in jobs that we enjoyed and they were socially rewarding. We got a lot of positive feedback living and working in the town.

You know, I don't -- I don't hope for a lot in life. You know, we prayed and hoped he would get better and that didn't happen. But, you know what, now I pray and hope that his death can have some meaning and greater purpose.

[08:45:02]

We had hoped to donate his organs. He had signed up for the organ registry. And we weren't able to because of the virus. So now I just hope that his death can bring about some positive change in this country. And I want people to know we're a real family and we're really grieving and this isn't fake news and it's not exaggerated. So I plead with people to vote and to vote their conscious.

BERMAN: Yes, as you say -- you say this year the one plea you made was pleading for his life and now you're pleading for people to vote against President Trump.

What was it like for you to watch the president's battle with coronavirus when he got sick?

ROBERTS: That's hard to say. I mean, I know a lot of people feel that he speaks for them and that he's just one of them, but he's not one of us. You know, he got top notch medical care. Not everyone who gets sick is going to get that. He was able to get tested multiple times in a week. My husband's tests were mixed up and they took weeks to return.

I'm sorry, can you repeat the question?

BERMAN: I was just going to ask you how it felt to watch the president go through his battle with coronavirus.

ROBERTS: Yes, so -- so then he miraculously recovered and I thought then at that point, wow, he could really show a human side. Well, I didn't really think that. I would be silly to think that.

But then when he -- when he went up those steps and unveiled his mask and then since then has had, you know, super spreader rallies, it's really like he's -- he's really spitting on all these loved ones' graves.

I had a fellow high school classmate whose father also died of COVID and she said -- she spoke for CNN and wrote some articles saying Trump is spitting on my father's grave, and that's exactly how I feel. He had a choice to be more human and to show empathy, but I don't think he's possible -- he's not -- he's not possible -- it's not possible for him to show empathy because I don't think he can feel that emotion. I think he thinks of one person and that's himself and he likes to

grandstand. You know, he hasn't called me to wish me his sympathies, you know. I've heard from the governor of New Jersey. I've heard from Joe Biden last night. They show empathy and caring and kindness and that's really lacking in the president.

BERMAN: I'm sorry, I didn't realize you heard from Joe Biden last night. What did the former vice president say to you?

ROBERTS: He -- it was just -- I mean it was incredible. He called me and he told me about his tragedies in his life, which I had already known about, and basically that no words that he could say would make a difference. He understood that. It was honestly just like talking to a friend. And, you know, it was late. It was like 11:30. And he -- and we just chatted for probably about 20 minutes. It was -- there's not a lot of highlights in my days recently, and that was definitely a highlight. He's a -- he's a kind, caring guy and that's, to me, a huge piece of what we need right now in the White House.

BERMAN: If the president did call you, what would you say to him?

ROBERTS: I think I would hang up. I'm sorry. I don't think I could say the words I would want to say to him. But I know his words wouldn't really be genuine, so they wouldn't -- they wouldn't really mean anything at all. I don't want to hear from him. He's spoken in his actions and, you know, as they say, actions speak louder than words.

BERMAN: Alice Roberts, we appreciate you being with us. We really do. We are so sorry for your loss and we wish the best to you and your family going forward.

Thank you.

ROBERTS: Thanks for having me. Thank you.

BERMAN: Thank you for being with us.

CAMEROTA: What a woman, John. What a strong woman who obviously represents her husband, a police officer's memory so well. And is just as plain spoken as they get, but still the powerful message of their real, they're a real family, and she -- she is allowing her family to serve as, you know, a warning to so many others.

BERMAN: Yes, the piece, which everyone should go read, she just talks about the loss. And it -- obviously, the loss of her soulmate is just huge. She says, the hole will never be filled. But she also talks about the loss that her family has suffered over the last few months. She hasn't been able to work because she's been taking care of her family full-time. Her kids, two of them, are doing remote learning completely. One of her sons desperately wanted to go back to the classroom. So she has him back in the classroom, but she's terrified of that, like so many parents are, too. And it's just -- it's a struggle for her family like it is -- well, worse than so many others.

[08:50:00]

And we're just so sorry for her pain and sorry for her loss.

I have to say, I also didn't know that the former vice president called last night and to hear that he called at like 11:30 at night is interesting as well.

CAMEROTA: It is. OK.

We are 13 days away from Election Day. It's crunch time for our CNN fact checker Daniel Dale. But it's always crunch time, I think, for Daniel Dale. He just tweeted this week, I fact checked Trump for more than four years. He has rarely before, if ever, had a period as comprehensively dishonest as this period right now.

And Daniel Dale joins us now.

Daniel, I don't know -- I don't know when you sleep either, to be honest.

So -- so you have seen it get worse? You have seen the amount of misleading or down right false things increase?

DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: Yes, the quantity has increased and the breadth of the false claims has increased. So what was notable to me about this Friday to Sunday period was that he made 66 separate, false claims. So that's not even counting the repeats of these same false claims, like sometimes he'd say the same thing at five different rallies. It was 66 entirely different, false things at minimum. That's the minimum count.

And the other striking thing to me was that a lot of these false claims were written into his texts. So through the course of Trump's presidency, most of his lying has been ad-libbed. It's just kind of Trump being Trump.

But in campaign season, what I find is that his staff, his team, puts a lot of the dishonesty in his prepared text. It's dishonesty as a deliberate campaign strategy.

BERMAN: I have to say, only Daniel Dale would do like an Excel spreadsheet of the types of lies you get from the president and the breakdown there.

I want to go through some of them here.

On the pandemic, the president said last night, as he has tended to say, that we're turning the corner.

Listen.

Or not.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're rounding the turn on the pandemic.

Safe vaccines that quickly end the pandemic. It's ending. Normal life, that's all we want. Do you know what we want? Normal life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Rounding the corner fact checks itself, Daniel.

DALE: It does. I mean it's a vague phrase, but it's just the opposite of reality. Cases are spiking. We now have a seven day average above 58,000 new confirmed cases per day, the highest since early August. And it's not only, you know, mild cases being caught by testing, like Trump keeps suggesting. Hospitalizations are also spiking. Fourteen states set hospitalization records in the past week as of -- as of Monday. So this is just getting worse around the country. It's not ending.

And I did an analysis we published yesterday on cnn.com. I found that Trump had said at least 38 times since February that this pandemic was disappearing or would disappear. He said it again at that rally and it's just wrong.

CAMEROTA: He also seems to make things up out of whole cloth and these are kind of incredible fabrications that should be easy -- well, I would think -- easy to fact check. Here's one about mail-in ballots, tens of thousands of them, being found in a river.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Did you see they found 50,000 ballots in like a river? They found ballots in an ash can. They happened to have the word Trump on them, you know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK, is that one easy for you to fact check or hard for you to fact check? How do you get to the bottom of that?

DALE: Well, it's -- it was actually a challenge at first because when he seems to make something up whole cloth, it's hard to prove a negative like proving that something did not happen.

But, anyway, this -- this one did not happen.

What's notable to me about this one, in addition to the fact that it's just a total fabrication, was that this is an example of what I think of as Tramp-flation. So at first he was telling a story about some ballots being found in a river. Couldn't name the river. Even that didn't happen. But now it's gone from some ballots in a river to 50,000 ballots in a river. So, as usual, this story just keeps getting more and more dramatic even though it's completely invented.

BERMAN: And, you know, and these stories like this are so trite that you lie about the small things but then you also lie about the big things, like the policies that matter most to Americans, and that includes health care.

So listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Biden plan would destroy Social Security and destroy protections for pre-existing conditions.

We will strongly protect Medicare and Social Security and we will always protect patients with pre-existing conditions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: The facts, Daniel Dale.

DALE: This is, again, the opposite of reality. So these protections for people with pre-existing conditions were created by Obama when, of course, Joe Biden was vice president. Biden is running on preserving and strengthening Obamacare. So, of course, not proposing to kill those protections.

Trump, conversely, has repeatedly tried to get Republican bills passed that would have significantly weakened the protections and he is now in court right now at president -- at present supporting a Republican lawsuit that would get Obamacare killed in its entirety, including those protections, if the courts agree.

[08:55:02]

So, again, up is down, just complete inversion of what's true.

CAMEROTA: Right, and he says that one with a straight face. I mean that one is really remarkable.

And then there's the one about fracking. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If Biden's elected, he will wipe out your energy industry.

Only by voting for me can you save your fracking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: All right, what's the fracking truth?

DALE: So the fracking truth is that Biden is running on a proposal to end new leases for oil and gas on public lands. So it is not a complete ban, it's only on public lands and waters, and it's a ban on new permits, so not existing fracking or other drilling.

Now, I do give Trump a little bit of the benefit of the doubt on this one because during the Democratic primary, Biden made a bunch of vague comments that did indeed suggest that he wanted to ban tracking. So I think, in this case, there is at least something for Trump to point to and say, hey, he said it, but that's not Biden's actual proposal, no matter how vague or imprecise he was during the primary.

BERMAN: No fracking way. Daniel, we have -- we have 20 seconds left. But in closing, you say he is -- he is lying more now than he has almost ever.

DALE: He is. The only other comparable period, I think, was the 2018 midterms. And, again, that's when lies started being written into his speeches more often. He was lying about a whole variety of topics. But this is at least one of the most dishonest periods for this president.

BERMAN: Daniel Dale --

CAMEROTA: Daniel Dale, that was Trump-tastic. Thank you very much for all of that reporting.

DALE: Thank you.

BERMAN: We've got a lot of news this morning. Our coverage continues next.

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