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Final Presidential Debate Tonight Has New Rules; CDC Revises COVID-19 Close Contact Definition; FBI Election Interference Announcement Raises Questions. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired October 22, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:06]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: It is the top of the hour, I'm Brianna Keilar. And in just hours, President Trump and Democratic presidential nominee, former Vice President Joe Biden, will share a stage one last time in these closing days of the election, and the stakes couldn't be higher for both men.

The president needs to convince Americans that he deserves another four years in the Oval Office. Biden needs to maintain his campaign's momentum going into these final 12 days.

The Presidential Debate Commission is desperately trying to turn the page from the first match-up, with new rules in place including a mute button for opening remarks. CNN's Arlette Saenz is in Nashville ahead of tonight's debate.

And you know, Arlette, we're wondering what we can expect from each candidate when they take the stage, and if things are going to be different from the first debate.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, the moderator and the Debate Commission are certainly hoping that the debate might play out a little bit less chaotically than that first debate. But for President Trump, he is hoping that this debate can help him change the trajectory of the race, while Joe Biden is simply trying to protect his lead against President Trump.

Now, for the format of this debate, the Debate Commission changed the way that the microphones are working at the start of each segment. The candidates will each have two minutes where they can speak without the other candidate's microphone on. This is to try to help avoid some of those interruptions that we saw play out in Cleveland just a few weeks ago.

After each of the candidates gets their opening segment during those -- two-minute segment during each section, then they can move on to an open period of discussion, where they can both have their microphones on and proceed with their talking.

Now, there will be six segments over the course of this debate. I want to run you through those topics. It's fighting COVID-19, American families, race in America, climate change, national security and leadership. This will be a 90-minute debate covering those six different topics.

Now, something that will be different from that first debate is that there will be plexiglass barriers erected between the two candidates on stage. That's something that we saw during the vice presidential debate between Kamala Harris and Mike Pence, but today they are instituting that once again here at the presidential debate, after the Debate Commission consulted with their medical advisors.

Now, we've learned that Joe Biden tested negative for coronavirus this morning. We haven't heard if President Trump has undergone a similar test before he proceeds to this debate.

But this debate is essentially going to be voters' last chance to size up the two candidates on that stage, one on one, face to face together. We're just 12 days out and there's still a number of undecided voters who will be tuning into this debate to see if it can help them make up their minds about who should be the nest president -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, we'll be watching with you, Arlette Saenz, thank you so much, live for us from Nashville.

And ahead of tonight's match-up, we are seeing the president return to one of his go-to lies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LESLIE STAHL, CBS HOST, "60 MINUTES": Let me ask you what you think your -- the biggest domestic priority is for you right now or next year?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, ultimately, let me -- and I'll tell you, it was happening, we created the greatest economy in the history of our country, and the other side was coming in --

STAHL: You know that's not true.

TRUMP: It is totally true.

STAHL: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: That is not true.

One topic that Biden will likely answer for is expanding the Supreme Court. Here's how Biden is now addressing that question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If elected, what I will do is I'll put together a national commission -- bipartisan commission -- of scholars, constitutional scholars, Democrats, Republicans, liberal conservative. And I will ask them to, over 180 days, come back to me with recommendations as to how to reform the court system, because it's getting out of whack, the way in which it's being handled.

And it's not about court-packing, there's a number of other things that our constitutional scholars have debated, and I'd look to see what recommendations that commission might make.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: CNN political director David Chalian is joining me now to discuss.

All right, I mean, this is the last match-up. What are you watching for going into tonight, David?

DAVIS CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes, the second and final match-up. Well, the first thing I'm looking for is Donald Trump's approach tonight. Now, we know, Brianna, we've observed him long enough, we don't expect Donald Trump to change all of a sudden and be someone he isn't, but what version of himself does he bring to this debate stage tonight? Is it much like the first performance where he was constantly interrupting and creating chaos on the stage?

None of his advisors want it to be that because that did not go very well for him. In a remarkably stable race, Brianna, there is a noticeable dip for Trump after that first debate, so they don't want him to re-create that. And yet some signals are that may be exactly the road that he is going down here.

[14:05:01]

Or does he lean into more his advantages in this race on the economy, where voters see him better than they see Joe Biden on that score? Does he try and seize this opportunity, as Arlette was saying, to actually change the dynamic in these final 12 days? Or is it more of his grievance politics? I think that is one key thing to watch.

For Biden's part, Brianna, his defense. That, I think, is going to define his performance tonight, because we know Biden would like to stay above the fray as much as possible, talk directly to the American people. Of course, like any frontrunner, do no harm.

But if Donald Trump is throwing things at him about Hunter Biden, his son and his business dealings, how Joe Biden responds to that. Does he get rattled? Does it get under his skin? Is he able to simply ignore it and move ahead with his own strategy and execute on it? I think is going to be sort of the defining aspect, in many ways, to how Biden's performance is perceived tonight.

And my final thing I'm watching is that muted moment, right? I mean, Arlette just took you through the rules and there's this new enforcement mechanism that they have where, at the beginning of each topic section, if you're not speaking in that first chunk where you have two minutes to address it, if you're the opponent not speaking, your microphone's muted. Is Donald Trump going to obey that or is he going to try to interrupt

and speak over his muted microphone and still try to throw Joe Biden off his game? Or does it actually -- does that enforcement mechanism actually bring more order to the debate stage tonight than existed in Cleveland last month? That's the third item I'm on the lookout for tonight.

KEILAR: Yes, I am very curious about that mute function. We'll see how that goes. David, we'll be watching, thank you so much. David Chalian.

CHALIAN: Thanks, Brianna.

KEILAR: And in just one day, the U.S. recorded more than 1,000 coronavirus deaths, we hit that grim milestone yesterday. This is the highest daily toll that was recorded in more than a month, and the recent trends are similar to previous surges but this time, experts say the worst is yet to come.

There are 31 states that are recording more COVID-19 cases this week than they did last week. There is only one, Hawaii, that is moving in the right direction.

The average of new cases per day has climbed to just under 60,000, and we haven't seen that level since the first week of August. There were more than 40,000 hospitalizations reported on Wednesday, several states hitting record highs on that including Iowa, Kentucky, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota as well as Utah.

You can take a look at the U.S. coronavirus death toll on the right side of your screen there, more than 222,000 lives lost. A new study investigated why that number was so high, and it found that most of those deaths were avoidable.

CNN's senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is joining me now. I mean, this is -- it is tragic to look at these numbers, that these analysts estimate the death toll could be somewhere between 20 and 90,000, not 222,577, if there had been an adequate government response -- Elizabeth.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Brianna. And just to try to describe how inadequate the government response has been is tough. We're going to try to boil it down to a couple of points, but again, the support from Columbia University, saying there could have been tens of thousands fewer deaths if different things had been done by the federal government.

So let's take a look at those. They said there was insufficient testing, there was lack of national mask guidance. The Trump administration downplayed the pandemic and mocked masks. Masks save lives, so mocking them does not help. It is so bad that countries, developing countries such as Pakistan, Honduras, Malaysia, they had more successful responses.

And, Brianna, to add to that list, Columbia also pointed out, look, Trump spent a lot of time advocating for solutions that didn't work. For example, hydroxychloroquine. So that also added to the death toll -- Brianna.

KEILAR: And tell us about this CDC revision on what is considered close contact with someone infected with coronavirus. What is the change here and why is the change?

COHEN: Right, so the CDC has been saying for months, a contact means -- or if you've had -- when we say you've had "close contact" with someone with COVID, we mean have you been within six feet of them for 15 minutes or more. And now, the CDC making it clear it doesn't have to be 15 minutes consecutively, like from 3:00 to 3:15. It could be five minutes here, five minutes there, five minutes later on. It can be cumulative, all put together.

And one of the reasons why they did this is that the state of Vermont noticed for their corrections officers, that they were at risk for getting COVID even when they weren't within 15 minutes of someone all at one time, it could be just little bits and pieces put together. And it makes sense. It's the amount of time, put together, that you are near someone with COVID, the chances that they're going to get you sick.

[14:10:00]

KEILAR: No, it's a very good point, a very good change. And the CDC is also investigating ways to shorten the quarantine time for schoolkids. What are the options here?

COHEN: Right, this is something that they're looking into, that they haven't actually done yet. But I asked, actually, about this, I asked Dr. Robert Redfield of the CDC about this yesterday. And he said, look, we're looking at the science. This pandemic is relatively new.

We were saying people need to be quarantined for 14 days if they've had close contact with someone with COVID or if they've had COVID themselves, they need to be isolated for 14 days. Maybe it doesn't need to be 14, maybe 12 is OK. There are various studies on that, and Dr. Redfield said they're looking at the studies.

KEILAR: All right, Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much, great to see you.

COHEN: Thanks so much.

KEILAR: There have been nearly 300,000 more deaths than expected in the U.S. during the pandemic. The CDC reports that about two thirds of those deaths were from COVID-19, so what about the other third? CNN health reporter Jacqueline Howard has more -- Jacqueline.

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Brianna, some experts say those other deaths, which represent about 100,000 lives lost, might be deaths of despair. The term "deaths of despair" refers to deaths caused by suicide, alcohol or drug use.

Here's what former FDA commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb has said about this, especially when it comes to younger adults. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT GOTTLIEB, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: I would suspect that a good portion of the deaths in that younger cohort were deaths due to despair, due to other reasons. We've seen a spike in overdose --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD: And one of the biggest jumps in excess deaths has been among adults ages 25 to 44 -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Jacqueline, thank you so much.

Still ahead, we're going to hear from the top health official in Mississippi, who says the spread in his state can be traced to white people not wearing masks. First though, the FBI shares new evidence about how Iran and Russia are trying to interfere in the U.S. election including sending intimidating e-mails to voters.

And one topic that should come up tonight? Health care. We will roll the tape on all the promises the president has made about his nonexistent plan to replace Obamacare.

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[14:16:31]

KEILAR: Tonight in his final debate with Joe Biden before the election, the president will likely be asked about his plan to replace Obamacare, the law that he's trying to kill and for which he does not have a replacement.

With 12 days to go and millions of Americans having already voted, still, no comprehensive plan to protect Americans with pre-existing conditions, no plan that could actually be sent to Congress to become a law, no plan despite countless promises, countless timetables and countless missed deadlines.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I will ask Congress to convene a special session so we can repeal and replace. And it will be such an honor for me, for you and for everybody in this country.

As soon as our secretary is approved and gets into the office, we'll be filing a plan.

We have a really terrific, I believe, health care plan coming out.

We're going to have a health care plan that's going to be second to none, it's going to be great.

We have two plans coming out.

Coming out in a very short period of time.

We're going to come up with a health care plan, we're not going to vote on it until after the election.

The plan is coming out over the next four weeks.

We're going to produce phenomenal health care, and we already have the concept of the plan and it'll be much better health care.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC HOST: Don't (ph) you (ph) have to tell people what the plan is?

TRUMP: Yes, well we'll be announcing that in about two months, maybe less.

Have a great plan coming out, it's going to be -- if we can take back the House.

We're signing a health care plan within two weeks, a full and complete health care plan .

Well, we're going to be doing a health care plan, we're going to be doing a very inclusive health care plan. I'll be signing it sometime very soon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said two weeks when you spoke to Chris Wallace.

TRUMP: It might be Sunday, but it's going to be very soon.

We're going to be introducing a tremendous health care plan sometime prior -- hopefully prior to the end of the month, it's just about completed now.

We're going to be doing a health care plan very strongly.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You've been promising a new health care plan. We -- I interviewed you in June of last year, you said the health care plan would come in two weeks. You told Chris Wallace this summer it would come in three weeks. You promised an executive order on pre-existing --

TRUMP: I have it already, I have it already.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: So as Americans vote, tonight would be a good nice to reveal details of this long-promised, mysterious plan that would impact tens of millions of Americans. Because if he waits another two weeks, polls will be closed, right?

Still ahead, we're going to break down the electoral map to see what each candidate has to do to win, and what could trigger a death match scenario.

[14:19:04]

Plus, e-mails sent to voters warning them to vote for Trump or else? Now the nation's top national security officials say Iran and Russia are behind these schemes. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: With just 12 days to go until the election, we are learning from the country's top national security officials that Iran and Russia are actively interfering in the 2020 election. Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe says both countries have obtained U.S. voter registration information, with Iran posing as the far-right group Proud Boys and sending intimidating e-mails to voters.

One of those e-mails reads in part, quote, "You will vote for Trump on Election Day, or we will come after you." And it concludes with this, "I would take this seriously if I were you."

Now, the timing of this announcement has raised questions. The briefing was hastily arranged and delivered just minutes after former President Obama delivered a strong rebuke of President Trump. Anthony Ferrante is a senior law enforcement analyst, he's a former FBI special agent and he's joining us now to talk about this.

And, Anthony, there was a source who told CNN that the government assesses some of the data that the Iranians obtained came from vendor and state systems. It's not just that this was publicly available voter registration information, so that's very alarming. How did they get this information and does that mean that this information is vulnerable to other attacks?

[14:25:05]

ANTHONY FERRANTE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Of course, right? I think this is just the tip of the iceberg here, Brianna. I mean, let's take a step back. A month ago, no one -- many Americans hadn't even heard of the Proud Boys. As of yesterday, many Americans across the country actually received a threatening e-mail from this group, telling them they had to vote for Donald Trump or else.

This is clearly escalatory behavior, and we really need to take this seriously because, I mean, as our intelligence officials briefed yesterday, Iran and Russia have now taken this bullying tactic and they brought it into the homes of Americans.

This is no longer just targeting state infrastructure like they did in 2016. They have escalated the fight, they have now brought it into the kitchens of Americans across the country. And we really need to appreciate what that means.

KEILAR: I want to listen to something that the DNI said last night. Let's roll this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN RATCLIFFE, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: We have already seen Iran sending spoofed e-mails designed to intimidate voters, incite social unrest and damage President Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KEILAR: OK, what do you make of that? Because the e-mails make it clear they want people voting for President Trump. He's saying that this was a coordinated effort to hurt Trump. What do you say to that?

FERRANTE: Yes, Brianna, I mean, as a former FBI special agent, it's very troubling for me to see that. You know, I watched the press briefing last night, I looked on stage and I saw no special agent investigators up on stage. I saw all Trump political appointees, and it broke my heart to see them stand before the FBI seal and make that statement.

Now, look, you can interpret that statement or the e-mail any way you want, really. Let's put that aside. That statement that the DNI made, it just wasn't necessary. It wasn't necessary, and it took a very important message, right? A very important message about Americans being targeted, Americans now facing this fight in their homes, in their kitchens, and it put a political spin on it, and it just wasn't necessary, right?

And it's super-frustrating that it happened in the FBI building in front of an FBI seal with no investigators up on stage, just these political appointees.

And there's more to be done here, right? OK, so you're saying, the e- mail is a threatening e-mail saying, you know, you must vote for Donald Trump or else. But what are we going to do about it, right? The only thing we got last night is the U.S. government telling us they're aware of this. They didn't tell us what they're going to do about it, so what's next, right?

I hope we can expect more from our government, more than just a monitoring squad. I would really like to see some action come out of this.

KEILAR: I wonder if the DNI has clearly been co-opted here by the political apparatus of the administration. Because the DNI also offered specifics about Iranian interference, but then didn't provide the same level of detail when it came to Russian interference. What did you think of that?

FERRANTE: I mean, I had the same reaction to the briefing. I think there's no other way to interpret these activities other than escalatory, OK? We certainly saw them targeting the 50 states in 2016, but they were doing it at the state level, they were doing state infrastructure, right?

The fact that now they pulled this data, whether they stole it illegally from compromised infrastructure, or they obtained it legally through paying for it, right? Where it's publicly available. They still took these steps, and they did in the public's eye, they did it in plain sight. They weren't secretive about it at all. It's my understanding they also used foreign infrastructure in which to launch these e-mails that landed in the homes of American citizens.

And I just think that this is clearly escalatory behavior, and I would really like to see some sort of response activities coming out of this. Remember, in 2016 when this happened, it was a difficult subject, it was a very sensitive subject. Yes, the administration was slow.

I am very happy to see the press briefing last night, that the administration is moving quickly to inform American citizens, right? But what are they doing about it? Christopher Wray getting on stage and saying you should have confidence in voting, that's not the problem.

The problem is not the infrastructure, it's not a tactical problem, OK? We really need to help Americans understand that this is massive, real -- right? -- misinformation campaign being facilitated by nation- state actors. Russia and Iran are behind this.

KEILAR: Anthony, thank you so much for taking us through this. Anthony Ferrante, we appreciate it.

[14:30:00]

FERRANTE: Thank you.

KEILAR: Next, former President Obama slams President Trump for everything from COVID response to spreading conspiracy theories. But can he move the needle for Joe Biden?