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Trump and Biden Clash in Final Presidential Debate; Former Democratic Presidential Candidate Pete Buttigieg Interviewed on Joe Biden's Debate Performance; U.S. State Department Issues Security Alert Warning of Credible Terror Threat against Americans in Turkey. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired October 23, 2020 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: For all the talk about style, ultimately the question is who present a better vision for the future, essentially the new challenges facing the country with the pandemic getting worse by the day.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: They disagreed on how to fight the coronavirus pandemic. The president played down the coronavirus, insisting without proof that we are rounding the corner and that it will, quote, go away. Former Vice President Biden claims the Trump administration failed America in their response to the pandemic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: There's not another serious scientist in the world who thinks it's going to be over soon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Trump, your reaction.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I didn't say over soon. I saw we are learning to live with it. We have no choice. We can't lock ourselves up in a basement like Joe does.

BIDEN: He says we're learning to live with it. People are learning to die with it. You folks home will have an empty chair at the kitchen table this morning, that man or wife going to bed tonight and reaching over to try to touch their -- out of habit where their wife or husband was is gone. Learning to live with it? Come on. We're dying with it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Deaths are increasing in more than half the country, and more than 223,000 Americans have died. Biden says anyone responsible for that many deaths should not remain as president.

Overnight more than 71,000 new cases were reported, that is the fourth worst day since the pandemic began. More than 41,000 people are hospitalized, that's the most in two months. Eight states are reporting record hospitalizations. Joining us now to talk about this and so much more, we have former

democratic presidential candidate and former South Bend, Indiana, mayor, Pete Buttigieg. He is a can you remember gat for Biden-Harris campaign. Mayor, great to see you.

PETE BUTTIGIEG, (D) FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Same here. Nice to be here.

CAMEROTA: OK, scale of one to 10, 10 being the highest, what number do you give former V.P. Biden for last night?

BUTTIGIEG: Of course I will give him a 10 because he is my pick for president, but also because what he did last night I think shows who he is. You were just playing that clip where he showed that he has the emotional equipment as well as the competence to deal with something like the coronavirus. He actually knows what it's like to reach across out of habit for your spouse and they are not there anymore.

And over and over again, whether we were talking about family separation or what's at stake with dealing with the pandemic, or economic issues, he was very clearly just more in touch with the American people. There was that moment where he squared up and addressed America about kitchen table issues. And Donald Trump did something that was revealing, as well as, I think, bad politics, but more importantly revealed something about his character. He mocked Joe Biden for doing that because Donald Trump literally has no idea what it's like to sit at a kitchen table and try to do the bills.

So Donald Trump had to fundamentally change the trajectory of the race last night. That didn't happen, and it's why, you know, we continue to see the V.P. in the lead. But we also know not to take anything for granted, it all comes down to voting.

CAMEROTA: Is that the moment that the Biden team will seize on in these next days? Should we expect to see that in ads? Is that the moment that you all thought was the most winning?

BUTTIGIEG: Personally, I thought it was a very powerful moment. Also the V.P.'s closing argument when he said this is about character, and you know him and you know me. I think it was a powerful moment because it's so obviously true.

And, remember, part of what we have going for us is that the American people agree with Joe Biden on just about every major issue, whether it's what to do about health care, the fact that the pandemic response has been inexcusable, the need for wages to go up and not to just be cutting taxes for the wealthy and corporations, which is Donald Trump's only economic policy. On issue after issue after issue people are already with us. This was a chance to remind people of that. And yes, you didn't see the fireworks, and thank God you didn't see the chaos of the first debate, but I do think this debate served us well, too.

CAMEROTA: Debate watchers did think that President Trump scored some points, one of which was saying to Joe Biden, you had your chance. You've been in government for a long time. So here are some of those moments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Excuse, he was there for 47 years. He didn't do it.

It was just a little while ago, right, less than four years ago, he didn't do anything.

He had eight years he was vice president. He did nothing.

You guys did nothing. Joe, I ran because of you.

You are all talk and no action, Joe.

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We got a lot of it done.

TRUMP: You didn't get anything done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: At some point former V.P. Biden said, well, we had a Republican Congress. But not for all eight years they didn't. Would you have liked to have seen a different or stronger response to that?

BUTTIGIEG: Well, that's the amazing thing, right, even with a Congress fighting them at every step it's extraordinary what was achieved during the Obama-Biden administration. And again, look no further than the Affordable Care Act.

[08:04:55]

One of the things, one of the many things achieved while Joe Biden was vice president was that health care was expanded and made available to millions of Americans those same millions of Americans who are worried about what will happen if Donald Trump succeeds and the Republicans succeed in taking that health caraway, which they failed to do in the Senate, largely because of that big thumbs down from John McCain, and are now instead trying to do in the courts which is part of what's at stake in this Supreme Court nomination.

It is just one more piece of evidence of how out of touch Donald Trump is with American life, to have no clue what it meant in our actual lives out here in the Midwest, for example, when the Obama-Biden administration rescued the auto industry, brought us back from the great recession, and expanded health care coverage to millions of Americans.

CAMEROTA: Do you know how Joe Biden plans to spend the next 11 days? Should we expect to see him out more physically on the campaign trail as opposed to what was this week?

BUTTIGIEG: I think you will continue to see a mix of more traditional campaigning in a new form and virtual campaigning and media appearances. Look, both candidates are campaigning, but the difference is our side is doing it in a way that respects the health and safety of our voters and our supporters. And it's the same for me. I love hitting the campaign trail. It feels really different. I was in Wisconsin yesterday, Michigan the other day, and, of course, it's different with social distancing, masks, and other safety precautions. But this is a chance for Joe Biden to do what presidents ought to do, which is to model and lead by example as well as describing what they're going to do.

CAMEROTA: There was another moment last night that it seemed like the Biden campaign felt they had to clean up after the debate, this one about oil. So listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I would transition from the oil industry, yes.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Oh, that's a big statement.

BIDEN: That is a big statement.

TRUMP: That's a big statement.

BIDEN: Because I would stop --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why would you do that?

BIDEN: Because the oil industry pollutes significantly.

TRUMP: I see.

BIDEN: Here is the deal --

TRUMP: That's a big statement.

BIDEN: Well, if you let me finish the statement, because it has to be replaced by renewable energy over time. Over time. And I'd stop giving to the oil industry, I'd stop giving them federal subsidies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Was that answer a misstep somehow?

BUTTIGIEG: Look, I think he stated a simple and important truth, which is that America in order to continue job growth and in order for there to be a future needs to move to a renewable energy economy. And by the way, there's going to be more opportunity for workers in that renewable energy economy than ever.

Certainly if you are my age or any younger, it is blindingly obvious that we are going to need to make major transitions in American energy, and of course a lot of those are under way. Again, here in the Midwest you look at what's going on with wind energy, for example, but also even the major energy companies see this. So President Trump is trying to cling to this vision that nothing has to change, and then he makes really strange remarks like windmills killing all the birds and something about windows that I don't even understand, that show that he is literally incapable of even grasping the nature of the problem, and therefore will never be able to serve up a solution.

And remember, there is no do-over on climate. We are literally entering the event horizon. We have got a matter of just a few short years before these things become irreversible. And what I love about Joe Biden's way of talking about the climate is he makes clear that this is not a choice between doing what's right for the climate and doing what's right for the economy. The only way to have an economy continue to grow is to have an economy wired up to the benefits of the many transitions and improvements we have got to make.

CAMEROTA: Mayor Pete Buttigieg, thank you very much for coming on NEW DAY this morning.

BUTTIGIEG: Thank you. It's a pleasure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.

BERMAN: We do have breaking news just into CNN. The State Department just issued a security alert warning of a credible terror threat against Americans in Turkey. So let's get right to CNN's Nic Robertson with the breaking details. Nic, what do we know?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, this is a threat that could be kidnappings or direct attack on U.S. citizens. What the U.S. embassy is advising American citizens in Turkey to do at the moment is not to gather in places where foreigners and Americans might gather, in office buildings or in shopping malls, places like that. So that's number one. If you are an American citizen in Turkey you should be aware of this and you should take appropriate action and not loiter in those sorts of places.

What we also understand is because of this threat and it's being taken as being very credible, is that the embassy in Ankara, the capital of Turkey, will be closed, and the consulate general in Istanbul, in Adana and Izmir on the coast, they are also going to shut as well. There will be no services for American citizens at those facilities for the foreseeable future, they've been suspended.

[08:10:06]

Also visa services obviously for Turkish citizens, American visa services for Turkish citizens, that all has been put on hold. It's not clear how long this threat is active for, but this is coming to effect very quickly, very immediately.

I have to say this isn't the first time we have seen these threats against Americans in Turkey. Over the past decade or so I would say there's been at least two occasions on my recollection where, again, the embassy and the consulate generals have been shut down because of credible threats. The Turkish authorities work very closely with U.S. authorities in Turkey. There is generally speaking, certainly with these sorts of scenarios, a good sharing of information about current threats. One can think about the attack within the past couple of years on the Istanbul Airport, a major terrorist attack there. There was a terrorist attack at a New Year's Eve party in Istanbul just a few years ago. So the threats are very credible.

We know that ISIS is just across the border and Al Qaeda just across the border in the southern end of Turkey in Syria. We know, we understand, that there have been missions recently to take out high value Al Qaeda and ISIS targets by U.S. forces inside Syria. So it's not clear where the threat is coming from or how long it will last, but very clear advice, don't loiter in places where foreigners might gather.

BERMAN: Let me follow up on that last point you were making, because I am curious if there is any sense about where exactly this threat is coming from. You talk about the geographic proximity of ISIS in some Al Qaeda bases, and there are other terror groups over the decades, frankly, that have operated in and out of Turkey as well.

ROBERTSON: Well, the Turkish government designates the PUK a terrorist organization, a Kurdish group. Generally, they are not perceived as being a threat to U.S. citizens. The Kurds, generally speaking, rely very heavily for support from the United States. So it would seem at this stage that it would be unlikely to be them who are targeting the United States. But it really isn't -- to be targeting U.S. citizens -- but it really isn't clear at the moment.

I do think as we look at it right now knowing that Turkey, and it admits this, it knows that it has an ISIS threat close at hand, it knows there is a potential Al Qaeda threat close at hand. Those seem to be the most likely groups that could be involved. But, yes, Turkey has become a transit point and a hub for a myriad of different groups.

BERMAN: This alert just in, of course, unclear exactly how many Americans in general are traveling right now in any country given the pandemic, but certainly embassy and consulate personnel, they should be on alert today. Nic Robertson, thank you very much for this report, please keep us posted. I know information is still coming in.

All right, 11 days left to vote in the U.S. election, and we have now seen the final set piece, the final debate, the last best chance to change the trajectory of this race. What's different this morning? We will discuss next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:17:05]

BERMAN: For the final time, we saw President Trump and Joe Biden on a stage together before the election. It was the final debate, the last best chance to change the trajectory of this race, and what we want to play for you now is the actual end of this debate, which in some ways encapsulated the entire feel of the 90 minutes.

Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WELKER: Imagine this is your inauguration day, what will you say in your address to Americans who did not vote for you.

TRUMP: I'm cutting taxes and he wants to raise everybody's taxes and he wants to put new regulations on everything. He will kill it. If he gets in you will have a depression the likes of which you've never seen. Your 401Ks will go to hell and it'll be a very, very sad day for this country.

BIDEN: I will say I'm an American President, I represent all of you whether you voted for me or against me, and I'm going to make sure that you're represented. I'm going to give you hope. We're going to move, we're going to choose science over fiction, we're going to choose hope over fear, we're going to choose to move forward because we have enormous opportunities, enormous opportunities to make things better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Joining us now, Susan Page, she is the Washington bureau chief for "USA Today", and she recently moderated the vice presidential debate.

Also with us, CNN political commentator, Scott Jennings, a former special assistant to President George W. Bush, and CNN political commentator, Bakari Sellers, former Democratic state representative from South Carolina.

Susan, I want to start with you here with the end.

Let's begin at the end here from the debate last night. It was interesting to watch them answer that question about what you will say at the inauguration. Donald Trump chose to use that moment to attack Joe Biden. I doubt if he wins or maybe he will when he is inaugurated, he will attack Joe Biden during the inauguration. Joe Biden used that moment to talk about bringing the country together.

It may be that that's exactly what they wanted to both of them in this debate last night. What do you see?

SUSAN PAGE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, USA TODAY: Yes, absolutely. It was Mr. Attack versus Mr. Empathy. And for President Trump focusing on the issue that's good for him, the economy, but you did hear Vice President Biden swing right back to the cost of this COVID-19 pandemic and all it has meant to the country.

So, yes, I think the closing, as you say, encapsulated the message of each candidate and outlined the choice that voters face in just 11 days.

CAMEROTA: Scott, I know that you think that last night was the best night of President Trump's entire campaign. So what did you think was so effective?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, for one glorious moment we actually here in the Republican Party got a chance to see a real policy debate, Donald Trump let Joe Biden talk, just as we talked about yesterday on the show, and for the last, you know, 18 months, he let Joe Biden talk, he rebutted the points, he talked about the issues and the accomplishments that he has, he even talked about the negative consequences of the Biden agenda in the future. It was a normal debate.

[08:20:00]

Trump made solid conservative Republican points. The moderator, I think, handled it great, just as Susan did, by the way, on the vice presidential debate the other day.

It was -- it was like a normal night and in a normal environment where you're debating policy, Republicans will do just fine.

Now, a lot of folks have voted, a lot of folks have made up their mind, I don't know if it's going to change public opinion dramatically, but for one glorious night, we had a real policy debate and I think Donald Trump won it.

BERMAN: When Scott said I don't know that it will change things dramatically, Bakari Sellers smiled.

So, Bakari, how did you see things last night?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, we are a morning show. I've got to show off this smile this morning and brighten people's day up, Berman. I saw last night, and this is what we -- we suffer from the soft bigotry of low expectations when it comes to Donald Trump.

Donald Trump really cannot clearly articulate any talking points beyond that of the Fox News morning shows and what it shows is last night, and I pinpointed this as he was talking, Donald Trump literally cannot talk to anyone outside of his base, and that's the problem. Donald Trump has no ability to expand his base.

And what Joe Biden has done is understand that he has a base that is energized, is focused, but he's also reaching out to Middle America, he's also reaching out trying to expand his base, which is why he has this lead that is so large nationwide. You heard Donald Trump last night with talking points such as AOC plus three. He was talking about Black Lives Matter and using the language that resonates on Fox News.

You know, he cannot talk about issues or policy in a way that expands his base and, last but not least, and this is the number one issue outside of coronavirus and kind of intertwined with coronavirus, and I don't know if Scott can answer this question, but the Republican Party has no answer on health care -- just absolutely none. They can say Obamacare is bad, they can say they want to get rid of Obamacare, that's all good, whatever.

But they don't know -- they have no plan and they haven't had a plan for ten years and they get tripped up on this all the time and it's devastating to watch them not get out of their own way on health care.

CAMEROTA: Hold that thought, Scott, we want to take a quick look at Vice President Mike Pence, he is in Indiana right now and he has just voted along with Karen Pence there at his side. He just dropped his ballot into the ballot box. Gave a thumbs up, posed for a picture. He has just voted.

I will take this moment just to deviate for a second, Susan, because you moderated the vice presidential debate, just to get your thoughts on Kristen Welker and what she did last night.

PAGE: I thought Kristen did a fantastic job. I think she was in control from the start. She was very well-prepared. I thought could not have done a better job of moderating.

I also thought the mute button worked pretty well. I had been a little bit of a skeptic about how that would work, but I think it imposed a kind of order on the debate that was really -- that was really helpful in setting more constructive tone than we had at the first presidential debate. I think when the debate began and it seemed pretty normal I think all of America took a little sigh of relief.

BERMAN: I will note, Bakari Sellers, dropping the soft bigotry of low expectations the George W. Bush, quote, on a George W. Bush guy.

Scott Jennings there --

JENNINGS: That's my line. He's quoting my lines.

BERMAN: I saw what you did there. I saw what you did there, Bakari.

Scott, answer the health care question because that was something that was a part of the discussion last night and we talk about unforced errors, you know, Donald Trump released the "60 Minutes" interview yesterday in its totality and in that "60 Minutes" interview says I hope the Supreme Court throws out the entirety of Obamacare.

JENNINGS: Well, it's no surprise Republicans don't like Obamacare and Donald Trump has said that many times, most Republicans have said that is correct they've voted that way.

Bakari is not wrong, on health care Republicans have one thing going for them and one thing going against them. Going for them is most people don't like Obamacare, okay, I know this because I watched the Democratic presidential primary and everybody ran against it, even Joe Biden says we have to change Obamacare and the rest of them want to throw it out and replace it with something else. Sound familiar?

This is what Republicans have had going for them because it just hasn't worked out the way Obama and Biden said. What they have going against them is this word salad talking around what would you replace it with?

And the Republicans, as Bakari noted, have never put forward a comprehensive plan that has been satisfactory to the national debate on this and it's been used as a bludgeoning tool in all these campaigns, it manifested itself in the House races in 2018, it's one of the things they are using against obviously Donald Trump right now. So, there is an old saying where I come from. It's called you can't beat something with nothing. This is why Obamacare passed in the first place because Republicans

didn't have an alternative and it's an Achilles' heel. So Bakari is right about that on the forward-looking stuff, but looking backwards health care -- I mean, you know, a lot of people in this country don't like the way, it's all turned out and Trump got that part right.

[08:25:06]

CAMEROTA: I'm sure Bakari will be quoting you back to yourself in a few years from now.

BERMAN: Bakari got that right part.

JENNINGS: Do you think we are going to be running against each other or something?

CAMEROTA: Maybe.

(CROSSTALK)

SELLERS: Bakari is right and take a break.

CAMEROTA: Oh, no, we're not done. We're not done, Bakari.

OK. Let's do an interesting mental exercise and have you switch roles. Bakari, do you think that President Trump did anything effective last night?

SELLERS: Oh, I think so. I think that his temperament last night was what people wanted to see. He was more deliberate, part of it was the mute button, part of it was actually listening to Scott Jennings and other people just telling him that he has to shut up sometimes.

So I think that that temperament that we saw come out was way more refreshing because we got a chance to hear people, hear people talk, we got a chance to hear Joe Biden talk, we got a chance to hear Donald Trump talk.

So I just believe that Donald Trump is a much better -- and this is actually kind of counterintuitive -- he is a much better political figure and politician when he stays on message and when he is disciplined. The weird part about that statement, though, is I believe he got elected because the American public wanted someone who doesn't stay on message and is not disciplined.

And so, we'll see if that will win again, but I think the chaos has exhausted way too many people.

BERMAN: All right. We have ten seconds left for you, Scott and Susan.

Scott, what did Joe Biden do well?

JENNINGS: He tied up Donald Trump on taxes. He knew Donald Trump couldn't resist taking the bait and at one point Biden got a little, you know what eating grin on his face because he knew Trump was going down a rabbit hole on his personal taxes. And then, look, he's been running this empathy campaign, as Susan

said, and he nailed it again last night. It's empathy versus Donald Trump the person, that's the kind of campaign he's been running, that's how he closed it.

So, if you're the Biden people, that was mission accomplished on continuing with the theme of empathy.

BERMAN: And, Susan, next week at this time, what will stick from this debate? What will we be talking about from this debate?

PAGE: We won't be. You know, Trump had a pretty good night, but Biden had a pretty good night, too. Trump needed Biden to have a bad night to change the trajectory of the race we're seeing.

CAMEROTA: Friends, thank you very much. Great to get all of your takes this morning.

BERMAN: He's smiling again. Now Bakari is smiling because he's going to get breakfast.

CAMEROTA: He thinks --

(CROSSTALK)

SELLERS: I've got a haircut. I've got a new haircut, too. So I feel pretty good about myself.

CAMEROTA: He thinks he won that segment.

BERMAN: Exactly.

CAMEROTA: Thank you, guys, very much.

All right. How is the Trump campaign feeling this morning after the president's performance? We're gong to speak to a top Trump campaign official, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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