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Trump and Biden Battle for 270 Electoral Votes; White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows Says White House will No Longer Try to Contain Spread of Coronavirus, Instead Concentrating on Treatment and Vaccine Development; Members of Vice President Mike Pence's Inner Orbit Test Positive for Coronavirus. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired October 26, 2020 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Joining us now is the dean of the Brown University School of Public Health Dr. Ashish Jha as well as Andy Slavitt, he's the former acting administrator for Medicare and Medicaid Services.

Gentlemen, thank you so much for being with us. Let me set the stage by playing the sound once again from the White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows in his conversation with Jake Tapper where the chief of staff said we're just not going to stop the pandemic at this point. He declared with nine days to go left for Americans to vote, we're not going to stop the spread. So listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: We're not going to control the pandemic. We are going to control the fact that we get vaccines, therapeutics, and other mitigation.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Why aren't we going to get control of the pandemic?

MEADOWS: Because it is a contagious virus, just like the flu.

TAPPER: Yes, but why not make efforts to contain it?

MEADOWS: We are making efforts to contain it.

TAPPER: By running all over the country not wearing a mask?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: We're not going to control the pandemic, Dr. Jha. I should say, the White House communications director over the last few minutes has been trying to say we're not giving up, we're not giving up. But when you hear the chief of staff say we're not going to control the pandemic coupled with the actions, the actual actions we're seeing from the White House, where Mike Pence isn't trying to prevent people from getting it, what do you see, what do you hear? DR. ASHISH JHA, DIRECTOR, HARVARD GLOBAL HEALTH INSTITUTE: Good

morning. Thank you for having me on. It's incredibly distressing. Look, we control infectious diseases all the time, literally we've never given up on a virus like this before. And it's very much aligned with what we're hearing from the White House from Dr. Scott Atlas, who is pushing the herd immunity, let everybody get infected strategy. This is not where we want to be as a country with our White House actively trying to undermine controlling of this deadly pandemic as cases, hospitalizations, and deaths are rising across the nation.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Mark Meadows, Andy, went on to say right after that, right after what Jake said to him there, what we're doing is with mitigation -- he called them mitigation factors, whether it's therapies or vaccines or treatments to make sure that people don't die from this. So in other words, they want to treat it after people get infected. They're holding out hope that they'll be able to either wait for a vaccine, whether that's six to 12 months away or treat it, instead of doing things that other countries did to make sure that people don't get infected. So why?

ANDY SLAVITT, FORMER ACTING ADMINISTRATOR, CENTERS FOR MEDICARE AND MEDICAID SERVICES FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, there's a consistent theme. If you go back to even as early as the beginning of the year, is it's a miracle is going to come to save us. Either the virus is going to just go away by itself, or it's not that bad, or it's getting better, or there's some miracle drug, and of course there's a vaccine.

And look, a vaccine -- and vaccines will eventually get here, and I think we should feel very good and very confident about that. But we have hundreds of thousands of lives that we can save before a vaccine gets here that will be rolled out sometime over the next year. It's not impossible. As Dr. Jha said, people all over the world and throughout history know how to prevent infectious diseases from happening. The continent of Africa, which has has 1.3 billion people, has only 35,000 deaths. So we're not talking about a high speed solution.

So how Mark Meadows can come out and say we're not making an effort to save it, and then say we will do it because we are American, I think that's the arrogance and the ignorance that we're seeing from this administration that's gotten us in this place in the first place.

BERMAN: Dr. Jha, we just hit our highest rate of new cases since the pandemic began, a higher number of new cases over a seven-day period than we have ever seen. Hospitalizations are rising. Where are we headed over the next several weeks?

JHA: So unfortunately, I think the statement about new record is going to be repeated over and over again in the days and weeks to come. We have more infections now than we've had certainly since the beginning of the pandemic, and I expect that those numbers will continue to climb. Hospitalizations are going to continue to climb. What we saw in Salt Lake City yesterday with a statement about starting to do triage and not being able to provide ICU care for everybody, that's probably going to happen in other places. Until we get the virus under control, we're in for some pretty dark days over the weeks and months ahead.

CAMEROTA: And so, Andy, there's another outbreak at the White House, now there are five people in Vice President Pence's close orbit, very close -- his chief of staff, his body man, who is the person who is with him 24/7, they have tested positive. And yet Vice President Pence is going to ignore the CDC guidelines even though he's the head of the Coronavirus Task Force, and he's going to continue going to rallies and continue being out of the house campaigning. And I know that you say that that shows that he cares more about votes than voters.

[08:05:05]

SLAVITT: My parents always taught me just watch what they do, not what they say. And the fact is that what I would love to see is all campaigners go ahead and campaign, do it in a safe way, and if you've been exposed, you have to follow CDC guidelines and isolate. But even if you haven't, this thing spreads so silently and so deviously, and the head of the task force, Michael Pence, should know that. He should know that. And so he's putting people at risk, and when he does that, because he is a leader the people look up to, they think, well, it must be OK.

This is an important time in the election. We get that. Everybody should do their best to campaign in the way, in the best way they can, but they have to do it safely, or they send a message to people that your health just doesn't matter, as much as getting me reelected. And that is a message that I think Americans are hearing. I don't think they like it. I don't think it's going to work, but more than that, I think it's very risky for people.

BERMAN: Dr. Jha, as a public health expert, it's not ambiguity in terms of what the vice president should be doing here. The CDC guidelines are not vague. Mike Pence has been in close contact, full stop, with at least one person, Marc Short, who has now tested positive, and potentially several people who have tested positive, and the CDC guidelines, I'm not mistaken, say he should be quarantined for 14 days. Any ambiguity here, any wiggle room at all?

JHA: No, there's no ambiguity here, and that's exactly right. And they're pulling this idea of he is an essential worker. Obviously, he's very important, he's the vice president of the United States. But there's no essential worker exception. The exception the CDC lays out is if your work is about critical infrastructure for the country, that if you're doing work that otherwise would lead to safety and health consequences if you didn't do it, you can for a short period of time break that quarantine. That's not what the vice president is doing when he's out campaigning. There is no exception for campaigning. It's only for really supporting critical infrastructure, and the vice president should be fully quarantined right now. There is no real debate on the science.

CAMEROTA: Andy, now two people, two experts, Dr. Scott Gottlieb, formerly head of the FDA, and Dr. Fauci have said maybe it's time for a national mask mandate. and in that video that we just showed, more people, I would say, at some of these rallies are now wearing masks. We also know that people at the rallies, when local contact tracers follow them after the rally like in Minnesota, they've gotten sick, dozens of people, at these rallies have gotten sick. But a national mandate would cost nothing. That's not taxpayer money. That doesn't even require the brain power to figure out how to contact trace. It's just saying, guys, for the next whatever, two weeks, two months, whatever you want to say, everybody when you're outside has to wear a mask. But they're not doing that.

SLAVITT: Well, look, what's troubling, and I got a call from a Republican governor, they're no longer disputing, they're having a lot of case growth all over the rural areas. The urban areas are fine because people are wearing masks, so they're basically fine. And the concern is that nobody in the state, even though they have a mask mandate, is wearing a mask. And this is a Republican governor who said to me, these are all supporters of the president, and if only the president would just do one simple thing and have my back, I think we would be a lot better off. He used slightly different words than that, but that was what he was essentially saying.

So it's not just important that there's a national mask mandate. Scott Gottlieb is a Republican. This is not a partisan issue. This is an issue for everyone's public health, and it will slow down the spread of the disease. The president is the one that needs to say that. The president is the one that needs to say this is not a joke. Yet he continues to equivocate at every opportunity he gets. And so it is not a matter of just a mask mandate. It's a matter of people across the board who have supporters saying you know what, guys, this is not something we should be trifling with. Let's just wear a mask. It's not a big deal. It's not a symbol. It's just actually, as you say, it's a small piece of cloth.

BERMAN: Dr. Jha, we know what could make things better. We know what measures, if they were instituted, could reduce the spread of it. We also know what's not going to happen. The president is not going to come out and say I'm wearing a mask every time I meet with people from now on. He just won't. The vice president, I don't think, will either. The leadership has decided not to. So given that we know what the White House response is, I fall back again to the same question I'm asking. Americans feel like it's closing in again on them. What will happen? What will turn this around if we're not going to get that level of leadership?

JHA: So leadership comes from many different places in our country, and when the federal government is absent, we can see state governments, as Andy said, there are Republican governors who are trying to do the right thing, there are Democratic governors trying to do the right thing.

[08:10:05]

This certainly includes mask mandates, but masks are not enough, and that's not the only thing. It's also about communicating to people about avoiding large indoor gatherings, not having house parties. But also there are plenty of Democratic governors and Republican governors who could doing more on curtailing indoor dining and bars and other places where the virus is spreading. There's a lot of control that we have. We're not helpless because the White House is choosing not to act.

BERMAN: All right, Dr. Jha, Andy Slavitt, we thank you both very much for being with us this morning. Gentlemen, stay safe.

JHA: Thank you.

SLAVITT: Thank you.

BERMAN: All right, the election is one week and one day left to vote.

CAMEROTA: You just keep finding new ways to say it.

BERMAN: We've been arguing all morning. Yes, November 3rd is the day most people refer to as Election Day, but I don't want to give people the idea they can't vote right now, because they can. And there's not one day that's more than important than any other in terms of voting.

CAMEROTA: OK, but we're still eight days away. That's what I'm --

BERMAN: Eight days left plus one day. What do the polls tell us this morning about each candidate and their path to 270? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: One week, one day left to cast your votes in the 2020 presidential election.

[08:15:00]

Because of the Founding Fathers, whoever gets the most votes does not necessarily win. It's all about the path to 270 electoral votes.

Where does that stand? Joining us now, Harry Enten, CNN senior political writer and analyst. Harry, thanks so much for being with us. First of all, I feel like we need to start every day with this because so many Democrats have PTSD over 2016.

They look at the polls, and they say, yes, Biden may be ahead, but 2016. What's the comparison right now?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER AND ANALYST: Yes, I mean, look, we'll make that comparison, and it is essentially that Joe Biden is in a better position with eight days to go then Hillary Clinton was.

I think the national polls kind of give you the lay of the land very well on that. You can just see that Biden is over 50 percent. Clinton wasn't anywhere close to that. And his lead is nine points. Clinton's was just four. So his lead is double the lead that that Clinton's was at this point.

And the other thing I'll note was Clinton's lead was retracting at this point, while Biden's lead seems to be mostly holding steady.

BERMAN: Shrinkage, Hillary Clinton's margin, we can call it for sure.

All right, President Trump going to Pennsylvania today. We know Pennsylvania is an important state, how important?

ENTEN: It's extremely important, and I think you can see this well on this graphic here, where essentially, I'm trying to paint the road to 270 electoral votes. And what we're essentially looking at here is the number of electoral votes cumulatively that Joe Biden would get, depending on the polling average in those particular states.

So what we see here is the Clinton-won states get you to 232, then you head in Michigan where Biden is up eight that gets them to 248. Then you'll add in Nebraska's second congressional district where Biden is up by seven. That gets to 249.

Wisconsin, again, another state where Biden is up seven, you get to 259, and then Pennsylvania is the state that puts him over the top to 279. And he is ahead there by six.

So right now, Pennsylvania, is arguably the most critical state for Joe Biden and for Donald Trump, for that matter.

BERMAN: When we talk about tipping point states, you can really see it on that chart right there, that if the polls hold, it could literally be the one that puts him over 270 electoral votes. That's why that was so interesting.

Inside Pennsylvania, what counties are you looking at?

ENTEN: Yes, I'm looking at two if we want to understand sort of the swing of the state. I'm looking at Erie in the far northwest, and then I'm looking at North Hampton, which is on the outer edges of the Philadelphia media market.

And the reason that I'm looking at those two counties is, look at these results. Both of these counties are counties that went for Barack Obama in 2012, then went for Donald Trump by small margins in 2016, and then in the 2018, Senate elections, they bounced back and went for Democrat, Bob Casey.

So if these two counties continue their, say, bellwether status in 2020, they will pick -- they will choose the winner. So I'm looking at those two counties in particular.

BERMAN: Let's blow through the last few slides very quickly, if we can, Harry. If President Trump doesn't win Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, does he have a path?

ENTEN: I mean, he'd have to win in both Nevada and New Hampshire. And if you look at the polling averages there right now, we're simply not seeing that Biden is ahead in both states and over 50 percent in both.

BERMAN: You know, I like to ask you this rhetorically, but when will we know who wins the election? The answer is when all the votes are counted, and that may or may not be on November 3rd, Harry, and we have one other of many historical examples of this.

ENTEN: Right. Just look earlier this year in the California 25th Special Election. Mark Garcia won that race by 10 points. And even though he won it by 10, in California, the winner wasn't declared until late Wednesday after Election Day.

So folks, be patient, be patient, be patient. It's more important that we get it accurate than get it quickly.

BERMAN: It wasn't even close and it still took over a day to count the votes and that's okay and you're okay. Harry Enten thanks so much for being with us.

ENTEN: Thank you.

BERMAN: Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Because you're good enough, you're smart enough and doggone it, people like both of you.

BERMAN: Exactly.

CAMEROTA: Joining us now Mark McKinnon. He was an adviser to George W. Bush and John McCain and is the co-host of "The Circus" on Showtime. And Paul Begala, CNN political commentator and former adviser to President Clinton.

Paul, I know you were listening wrapped to Harry Enten's analysis there. What jumps out at you today?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think Democrats do have this PTSD. Biden is running a really good campaign and he has been very, very disciplined.

We're in the middle of a pandemic, and it has hits seniors, especially hard. Seniors were Trump's strongest age cohort. Biden has eaten into that, in fact, he is leading with seniors in the great many states, particularly, Pennsylvania.

Pennsylvania is the second oldest state, second only to Florida. But then I'm looking at Florida, I would add to Harry's list, Florida. They actually count the votes in Florida. McKinnon had some experience there with the George W. Bush.

But what I'm hearing from Florida is that with seniors especially, Trump is fading and it's because of COVID.

That interview with Mark Meadows yesterday, the headline today should be "Trump to Nation: Drop Dead." I'm saying that's not a very good message to voters eight days before an election.

BERMAN: Look every candidate you know is going to Florida next week. Former President Obama going to Florida again, in the next week. Mark McKinnon, you have a really interesting formulation that I want you to walk through here so people hear it, which is, if you had told voters a year and a half ago that X: walk through this for me.

[08:20:16]

MARK MCKINNON, FORMER GEORGE W. BUSH CAMPAIGN MEDIA ADVISER: Yes. So if I went and had sat down with Paul Begala back in February, and I said -- who is really the smartest guy on politics, I would have said, Paul, what would be the best thing that could happen to you in the Democratic Party in this election? He would say, well, first of all, we nominate a very centrist familiar guy that people know well, Joe Biden.

Second, we would have the incumbent President United States be a victim of the very health crisis that he is badly managing. Three, a week out from the election, it would be spiking everywhere. And then four, you'd have the Chief of Staff saying, basically, we can't do anything about it. That is like the best possible scenario for Democrats and the worst possible scenario for Republicans.

CAMEROTA: That is quite -- when you look back in the rearview mirror and frame it like that, that is a doozy. So let's look at where they are going to be for the next 48 hours. And Paul, help us understand what you're seeing here.

So we know that President Trump is on this battleground blitz. He is going to Pennsylvania since Pennsylvania is all important. He will be making three stops there as well as hitting Michigan and Wisconsin and Nebraska.

Biden is in Delaware and then Georgia. So, why isn't Biden just parking it in Pennsylvania?

BEGALA: Well, he is from Pennsylvania. He is from Scranton, as we all know. He has campaign there, but he is not having the same frenetic super spreader strategy that Trump is having. And it's because I don't know if you've covered this. There's a pandemic. There's a deadly virus out there.

And Joe has the advantage of having more money. He has raised more money and he has shepherded his money.

Jennifer O'Malley Dillon, his campaign manager has done a terrific job, so he can advertise, which is a way to get your message out without killing people. I really do. I feel for these Trump voters. I do hope they will wear masks.

They want to have a rally. I think it's unwise. I'm not a doctor, but I really do hope they -- I want them to live to vote for Donald Trump, all right.

But it's really a risky, reckless thing that Mr. Trump is doing with all of these rallies.

BERMAN: The theory is, is that for Donald Trump to win, he has got to motivate his voters that would be working class, non-college whites, rural white voters at levels that they've never voted before, equal or greater than 2016.

So he is going out to animate just his voters, and Mark, you know, you do hear from nervous Democrats, which, you know, it goes without saying because most Democrats are always nervous.

MCKINNON: That's redundant. BERMAN: Exactly. You know, why isn't Joe Biden out there on the

campaign trail? Should Joe Biden be doing this blitz around the country also? So what would you say? Should Joe Biden be visiting more states than he is?

MCKINNON: No, his strategy is, don't catch the falling knife and go out there in COVID spiking areas and bring attention to the fact that you're having super spreader events when the crisis is worse than ever.

I would add one thing to my scenario there that I mentioned in my conversation in February with Paul and that would be nominate a guy from Pennsylvania. That's the state you've got to get and Joe Biden is from Scranton, and that's exactly, you know, he is lunch pail Joe, and he has got a chance to take Pennsylvania back to the Democratic column where it usually is.

CAMEROTA: Okay, lightning round. Paul, what's your advice? What's your one bit of advice to Joe Biden today beyond, don't have a super spreader event?

BEGALA: Well, it's COVID, COVID, COVID. I would jump all over and he has, this Mark Meadows interview where the Chief of Staff as you've been covering said that we really can't control it.

I would remind people first, the White House is only 16 acres. It's only 1,100 people. There are honestly -- it's not exaggeration -- more current cases of COVID in the White House than in the entire country of Spain, with 50 million people over 313,000 square miles.

I think he is not doing a very good job, Mr. Trump, in managing this pandemic. It's all about the pandemic. If he can't protect himself, if he can't protect his own family, if he can't protect his own staff, how is going to protect you?

BERMAN: Mark McKinnon, one thing, both you and Paul share, although I don't think either of you are there right now is Texas. You both spent a big chunk of your lives there. How real is Texas right now, for Joe Biden and the Democrats? I know that Senator Harris is going, but as of now, we haven't heard that Joe Biden is going.

MCKINNON: Well, I know that Paul and I will disagree on this because he is going to say that Biden should be spending money and resources in Texas. I say, if you're spending money and resources in Texas in the Democratic Party, that means you're headed for a 400-vote electoral landslide.

So keep focus. Keep focused on those states. You need to get to 279, not in the state that will take you over 400.

BEGALA: Here is a counter argument. Joe can win Texas. We haven't won a race there in 25 years. He can win Texas. M.J. Hegar, the Senate Candidate can win, but here's what he should do: Send Barack Obama. Send President Obama, all the voters you need, Joe, in Texas love President Obama. I know you can't go everywhere, but President Obama can at least go.

I'd send him to the Rio Grande Valley, and I would have him turn those voters out and I think that could flip the state.

[08:25:27]

CAMEROTA: Okay, Mark McKinnon and Paul Begala. Thank you both very much. Great to talk to you guys.

Okay, how is one of the country's largest cities dealing with their surge in coronavirus cases? We'll ask Chicago's Mayor about the strict new measures that she is putting into place.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Illinois is seeing a sharp rise in coronavirus cases and deaths. On Sunday, the state reported the highest number of new cases anywhere in the country. Listen to the state's public health director tearfully explain the dire situation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. NGOZI EZIKE, DIRECTOR, ILLINOIS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Since yesterday, we have lost an additional 31 lives for a total of 9,418 deaths.

[08:30:04]