Return to Transcripts main page
Cuomo Prime Time
Biden: "We Will Act, On The First Day Of My Presidency, To Get COVID Under Control"; Trump Complains About Coverage Of "COVID, COVID, COVID..."; Polls: Young Voters Favor Biden, Turning Out In Record Numbers. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired October 27, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: After a race like no other, join us one week from tonight, for live coverage of the ballot count, the way only CNN can bring it to you. See what's happening in your state, and across the country.
Our special coverage "Election Night In America" kicks off next Tuesday, 4 P.M. Eastern. It is going to be exciting.
The news continues. Let's hand it over to Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME." Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: "Exciting," understatement of the year. Thanks, Coop, appreciate it.
I'm Chris Cuomo. Welcome to PRIME TIME.
One more week, today, this is the last Tuesday we have that's anything resembling normal. The next Tuesday we have, we will be entering the vote counting crucible.
The big question, will we know who won next Tuesday? Maybe not. Why? Different states have different rules for counting ballots, even among the swing states actually, especially among them.
But the elephant in the room, the biggest factor influencing the ability to vote, and potentially the choice of candidate is the pandemic. Many key states are getting hit worse than ever, just when the ability to move around safely matters most.
Florida, more than 4,000 new cases there just today. The President said, "Oh, yes. It was a spike, but it went away." No. It's gotten worse.
Michigan, Wisconsin, where Trump just went stumping tonight, Wisconsin hospitals are completely overwhelmed. ICU beds have reached 87 percent of capacity, and we are months away from where we thought the crisis would happen, months away, months early.
How many will vote early out of fear? 68 million have already, way ahead of the pace four years ago. But cases are exploding as well. We're getting close to double the case number, where we were this summer as a rate. We're around 40. Now we're at 70-plus.
So, how many will stay home? How many will vote to punish Trump for his inaction? How many believe that Biden will actually make good on his promises of better? One thing is for sure. We are actually, right now, exactly where we didn't want to be.
For months, Trump has been begged, by many of us in the media, by insiders, and experts, first responders, essential workers in healthcare, to let the government get together a real plan to fight COVID and get it under control, all hands on deck.
Think about the last time that a major battle or effort in America didn't even have a name. The vaccine effort does, right? Operation Warp Speed. But Trump's effort to fight COVID doesn't even exist. He can't even name you something. There is no plan. There is no operation. There is no anything.
Remember, though he kept saying COVID was a hoax, when he was told about what was happening, as we got into November, if nothing happened, to abate the pandemic, remember he had the wild notion, not to do something radical to fight the virus, but to move the election, so that Americans could properly, securely and safely vote, you know, because he wanted to buy time, not buy you safety.
Remember, he said, "I can do it myself, you know?" Of course, he was wrong. He was wrong about that, as he was wrong about not going all-in to stop the virus. And now, we can add another victim to the pandemic toll, the election.
And it is in this precarious moment that we are realizing COVID is worse than ever, and we are faced with two candidates, making their closing arguments, for your vote, one week away, if you haven't voted already, or you don't decide to vote tonight.
Now, Biden sees the pandemic as front and center. He sees the country in need of healing and on multiple levels. His cure for all of it is the same. "Come together. Come directly at what is making us sick, physically, culturally, politically, and come to a better place."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Clear the decks for action, for we will act. We will act, on the first day of my presidency, to get COVID under control.
We can and we will control this virus. As president, I will never wave the white flag of surrender.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: They are completely going in opposite directions on this point.
Trump argues just as vigorously as the exact opposite. "COVID Schmovid" sums it up. He had the White House Science Office list ending the pandemic as an achievement. Seriously? The pandemic is over? If it were any farther from over, it wouldn't have happened yet. He wants you to believe that when it comes to COVID, and anything
else, the cure is only one thing. You must believe only him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Turn on, "COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID. Well we have a spike in cases."
[21:05:00]
We're testing everybody. In many ways, I hate it. In many ways, I hate it. We test everybody.
They use it to make us look bad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: No. You make you look bad. That's all it takes.
"We're testing everybody." If we're testing too much, ask yourself, why does the positive rate keep increasing? If you were testing too much, the rate of positivity should stay the same. And then you know you just have more reinforcement of the same data point. If you're testing too much, why are the hospitals filling up?
The better question is, Mr. President, why lie? Why deny what everyone knows this country is living, when you have the tools, the money, and you should have the wherewithal to do so much more. A week from the election, and here we are.
And, by the way, it's not the only moment of crisis. Another Black man shot and killed by police in the key state of Pennsylvania (ph), Walter Wallace Jr.
The name we now must all know, just 27, killed yesterday, in front of his mom in Philadelphia. She was chasing after him, begging cops not to shoot a man who was clearly in mental distress. You don't have to believe me. There is tape. And it is so sad.
You will feel yourself watching it. You can see that the police don't know what to do. They don't know how to make the situation any different from the way it's unfolding. You see the mother's desperation, and you'll feel yourself saying, "Don't! Don't! Don't!" just like his mother was.
The Biden team put out a statement on the shooting today, and earlier, pledged, to act on addressing systemic racism, in our country.
But for Biden, the first step to dealing with the Virus of Racism, or the Coronavirus, is to get a president who cares about fighting these problems.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: President who is not in it for himself but for others, a president who doesn't divide us, but unites us, a president who appeals not to the worst in us, but to the best.
Well I will govern as an American president. I'll work as hard for those who don't support me, as for those who do. That's the job of a president, a duty of care for everyone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: There certainly is a need for care. We are certainly a country in crisis. Those things we know. What we don't know is what happens next.
Let's bring in David Gregory and Howard Dean.
I would be remiss if I did not say that the proof of how wrong the President was to say that the pandemic affects just about nobody, is that David Gregory got the virus, and dealt with it like it was a bad cold.
We were in touch during it. And I was jealous of your strength, your quiet persistence, and how you just vanquished the virus in a matter of days. Thank god for you and the rest of your family. I'm glad to see you, brother.
DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, AUTHOR, "HOW'S YOUR FAITH?": Thank you, brother. I appreciate - I appreciate your counsel.
I wasn't - I wasn't that brave. It took a while. I mean I'm 14 days now, and I'm finally back. And I was very fortunate. I was very lucky to be able to deal with it at home but certainly difficult. And I'm just very happy to be on the other side.
CUOMO: Now that you're in the family, you were acutely aware of the situation before. But having lived through it now, and seeing how many people there are out there, exactly like you, how big a deal, do you think, the virus will be, at this election, this year, on people's minds?
GREGORY: I just think it's so huge because, especially unfortunately with more cases, more hospitalizations, more fear.
The psychological piece, which I know you experienced, and I experienced as well, is so different because you're afraid, even when you're in an unfortunate situation like me, where I was recovering at home, you're afraid it could get worse.
It's not like what we know of a cold or even a flu. And I think that's what people are fearful of. They want leadership, and they're asking, themselves, if they're in a time of voting, how has our leader handled this?
And in any presidential election, you really want it to be a choice, not purely a referendum. And, in this case, I think it's so much a referendum on the President's leadership, on a crisis that is not abating that we are not vanquishing. And I think that weighs really heavily, and I think that's very bad for the President.
CUOMO: Howard, Biden talks about Coronavirus as a metaphor for everything that needs fixing. Is he making the right move?
HOWARD DEAN, FORMER DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN, (D) FORMER DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, (D) FORMER VERMONT GOVERNOR: He is. And I think he's getting stronger as the campaign goes on.
[21:10:00]
I agree with David that these elections are almost, these midterm - I mean these second-term elections are almost always referenda on the president. But Biden is proposing a different way of doing this, a more traditional way for presidents to lead, and Trump is not leading.
Trump's problem is not that he's conservative. His problem is that he's crazy, and he's incapable of thinking about anybody but himself. Joe Biden has learned through bitter experience, through his whole life that is exactly the wrong way to approach very difficult things.
CUOMO: David, what do you think Biden's biggest challenge is to pulling this off, with the tallying that's going on right now, up through, depending on a couple of case turnouts, a few days after November 3rd?
GREGORY: Well two things, one, is there an aspect to 2016, which is people ultimately go in to vote, or they voted early, and despite what we're seeing in the polls, they're making a different decision, more of a gut decision to stick by Trump. The other - the other thing is the fear factor. I think this election is all about fear on both sides.
But the fear of Biden that Trump is trying to expose is, "Hey," voters say, "Maybe I'm done with Trump, but I'm afraid of the Left. And I'm afraid. Biden seems like a nice guy, but the Left is going to be in control, and they're going to push, and they're going to push hard on stuff that I don't like.
And even on the virus, maybe they're going to start shutting down again, and I don't have a job, and I don't have a prospect. Maybe they're not going to reopen my kids' school," because they're going to be so captive to what people perceive is just a shutdown mentality.
I think those fears are real. And I just don't know how big that group is beyond the President's base.
CUOMO: Howard, speak to the role of fear, and who you think it helps more in this race.
And also, as a former Mahaf (ph) and a big organizer, at the Party level, which Party, do you think, positioned itself better to deal with the discount effect of the pandemic on Election Day?
DEAN: Well, Trump is the Republican Party. So, they obviously did not position themselves terribly well.
I think the Democrats have actually done a pretty good job, positioning themselves. But again, I would give the credit to Joe Biden. Many people wanted somebody younger, and somebody more dynamic, and
somebody further Left. But he is the right candidate for this situation. He is - has his experience, which I think means a lot to people, especially when you compare with Trump, who had none, and still seems to have none.
I think - I think we're running both a positive campaign and a reassuring campaign. I really do. And I don't say that because I'm a Biden guy. I stay neutral because of my involvement in the database stuff.
CUOMO: No. I hear you.
But the nuts and bolts aspect of it, David, looking at the numbers you got, early voting has surpassed 58.3 million pre-election votes cast in 2016, where it's 66 million or so, but the number is always moving. A lot of them are being cast by Democrats in what we can see.
But Election Day is a huge push for the GOP. They're big Election Day voters, so are Democrats, but by percentage, we expect Republicans, in a lot of key states, to come out strong.
That means you had to prepare your ranks for the fear of voting in the midst of a pandemic, where the cases are spiking in a lot of the key states, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Florida, I mean, they're going to have scary situations to wander out and stand in line-in.
GREGORY: I think there's no question about that.
And the President has tried to pump up his ranks to win on that last day of voting to try to make a stand, in some of these battleground states. So, I think it's important. I think the specter of long lines, and crowds, and even the fear of some kind of suppression or intimidation is a factor in some of these states.
But I think, I mean the Governor speaks to it. There's so much motivation. There's a lot of fear. There is so much anger. I think there is a real sense that big things are on the ballot. And it's not just issues. It is who we are. It's who we want to be as a country.
I thought - I thought Biden was smart, in a closing message, to talk about the Bible, and Ecclesiastes, and a time for healing.
Because what he's saying to people is, "It's time to calm down. It's time for a reset. We got to get kind of out of the ditch here, and get back on an even keel in this country. Whether you're for me or taxes or whatever, can we just stop the madness a little bit?"
And I think that resonates. I think that's a bigger motivator. I think there's a cumulative experience of these years that people are going to cast a ballot on.
Just as at the end of the Bush years, I think there was a desire, for the United States, to reorient itself in the world, to stop a posture of war, to stop some of the perceived accesses of the response to the war on terror, people wanted that reset. I think we're in a - in a similar place, yet the social fabric has
been torn even worse than it was in those years.
[21:15:00]
CUOMO: Yes. I think that the closest analog, and people, will be bored by the history of it, but if you look at Hoover versus FDR, Hoover made the mistake of denying the depth of the Depression that it was just a short-term bounce. It would come back. He didn't do anything big. He believed that he should play it down. FDR obviously went 180 degrees the other way.
And I think the more of Biden doing that that "I'm going to go big. I'm going to help the businesses, I'm going to help people, I'm going to go throw everything at this," forget about pretending it doesn't exist, it's going to be the only thing that exists, in terms of our engine for recovery, I think that this race looks a lot more like that than people are thinking right now.
But David Gregory, Howard Dean, appreciate you both. We'll be speaking plenty, seven days going to sound like seven months at the end of it.
All right, so another aspect of this that we have to drill into more is this record early voting. Who? Where? Young people. OK, now they have finally come into their own in terms of a pool of eligibles, they can make an impact. We saw it in 2018.
What are we seeing here? Are there early signs? The answer is yes. Are they more engaged? If so where, and on what? The Wizard of Odds has the numbers on what could be a legitimate X-factor. We saw in it 2018. Will we see it in seven days? Next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Some numbers, but more so some context.
68 million Americans have already cast their ballots. That's over half of the total vote in 2016. Now, is that meaningful or meaningless data? Well, it's certainly meaningful, when you look at who is voting, now not by Party. I believe that partisan preference is becoming less a defining element of who we are, as voters. But if you look at it by age, now you see something interesting. How
much so, and to what effect? Good questions! To answer them, the Wizard of Odds, Harry Enten is here.
Impress me young man with the other young people.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER & ANALYST: I'm not that young anymore. My goodness, in the flash, I look much older.
CUOMO: I have shoes that are older than you.
ENTEN: There you go!
Look, here's the situation.
CUOMO: Yes.
ENTEN: Let's take a look at who is turning out early to vote this year, and compare it to where we were four years ago, at this point. And I think this really gives you an idea of what's cooking.
So essentially, look at the share of voters who are turning out early, who are under the age of 40 this year. Right now, it's 22 percent. Compare that to where we were seven days, until Election Day, back in 2016. It was just 14 percent.
Now, obviously, we still have a little bit time to go, and we'll see what actually occurs, on Election Day. But this does seem to line up with what we saw in 2018, where younger voters made up a larger piece of the pie in that mid-term than any mid-term in recent memory.
CUOMO: Who do they like?
ENTEN: Who do they like? They like Joe Biden. Joe Biden is leading with those voters under the age of 40 by about 20 points. He's up 56 percent to 37 percent.
And that is what we've seen consistently, over the last few years, as the millennials have come up, now they make up the vast share of those under the age of 40. Generation Z also makes up some share.
But there's no doubt that the more younger voters who turn out, the better it is for the former Vice President.
CUOMO: Now, in one of the very funny conversations we have that people don't get to see, more and more, I believe the best part of this show happens before it happens or during commercial.
I said to you, "Boy, I'm surprised that they would like Biden though, issue-for-issue, with all due respect to the former VP," and you said, "Well, it's because it's not about liking him. It's about not liking Trump." How much so and how do you know?
ENTEN: Yes. So, look at this. Take a look at the favorable and unfavorable ratings of both Biden and Trump among registered voters under the age of 40. What you see is Biden's favorable rating is slightly above his
unfavorable, right, 51 percent to 44 percent. But that's not anywhere near the spread that we saw in the horse race numbers. What's driving it though?
Look at this, 61 percent of registered voters, under the age of 40, have an unfavorable view of Donald Trump. That is really what's driving, in my opinion, this youth enthusiasm. It's not so much a love for Biden. It's, honestly, for a lot of young voters, the truly deep dislike of the President of the United States.
CUOMO: How are they dispersed in terms of states that matter?
ENTEN: I mean, look, if you want to look at young voters, I would specifically look at, you know, Arizona would be a good example, of a place where there are a lot of up and coming, especially among Hispanics.
And especially in a state like Texas, if Biden is going to flip that state, I think young voters there are very important. If Joe Biden can get young voters, young Hispanic voters, to turn out in Texas, he has a real shot of turning that State blue.
CUOMO: You keep talking about Arizona. Why?
ENTEN: The reason I talk about Arizona is if you look at these - look at these states right here, right, if you're looking at Biden's road to 270, the easiest pathway is through the Upper Midwest, right? You win in Michigan, you win in Nebraska's 2nd congressional district, you win in Wisconsin, you win in Pennsylvania that gets you to 279 exactly.
But say Biden was to fall in one of those states, right, let's say he doesn't win in Pennsylvania, if you add in Arizona, with its 11 electoral votes, and you take away the 20 from Pennsylvania, you still get Joe Biden to 270 electoral votes exactly.
And right now, Biden is ahead in the Arizona average by 4 points. So, he's leading there, and it's a very, very important state, if one of the states in the Upper Midwest falls through for him.
CUOMO: Boy, if we're counting the 2nd congressional district in Nebraska with its one electoral vote, this is going to be a very close count, on Tuesday, if it even ends on Tuesday.
Wiz, thank you very much. Appreciate it.
ENTEN: Thank you, Sir.
CUOMO: All right.
So, when you get your taxes mailed off, when do you need them post- marked by? April 15, right? Then you're all set with the IRS with the Man. No matter when they get it, you're covered. But that is not the standard for our votes, even this year. So, we have two Attorneys General, who are in the middle of the fight to count every vote in their battleground states, because think about it. You have the President telling you, "We got to have a legitimate election. We don't want all these other votes." But isn't that what makes it legitimate, is if you count all the votes?
[21:25:00]
The impact of the new conservative super-majority, on the election, and specifically, Pennsylvania, next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Wisconsin, key state. Pennsylvania, key state. And in both of them, we are seeing two things, lines of people waiting to vote, and the virus exploding, OK? That is a horrible combination. Now, throw into the mix uncertainty about one of the ways people can vote safely.
According to state law, in both places, if you're in line to vote, on election night, when the polls close, you still get to vote. That same rule may not be true if your ballot is in line with the Post Office.
We have the latest on a pair of pivotal Supreme Court cases which now may have a different disposition, especially in Pennsylvania, because of the latest Justice. And we have the key players from both states, perfect.
[21:30:00]
Let's begin in PA, where Republicans want the high court to hear a case they just ruled on last week. The GOP wants to make sure absentee votes only count if they arrive by Election Day, no matter when they are post-marked.
Let's start with the Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro.
Good to see you, A.G. First of all, how are they able to go back to the court after the court sent it down, and said, "Respect the state court's ruling?"
JOSH SHAPIRO, PENNSYLVANIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, technically speaking, last week, the court dead-locked 4-4 on the request for a stay, basically, staying or stopping state law that says, you can get the three days to receive the ballots, assuming they were post-marked by the time the polls closed.
What now the Republicans, from Pennsylvania, are asking the Supreme Court to do is to hear this case on the merits. They've effectively asked for something called "Cert." They've asked for the attention of the court to consider this.
It's important to note that the United States Supreme Court has not granted cert. They have not yet determined whether or not they would even hear this case, Chris.
CUOMO: So, what's your fear?
SHAPIRO: I don't know that I have a fear. I recognize that Justice Barrett being on the court now creates a nine-person court. She obviously will have a pivotal vote, should this case come back up.
But everybody talks a lot about how this is now a 6-3 conservative court, a court that strictly reads the statute, strictly reads the Constitution.
A careful reading of the statute, and specifically of a legal principal known as the Purcell principle, would actually suggest that by a vote of hopefully nine-nothing, they would let our state law stand. Let me explain why.
The Purcell principle says that the federal court should give great deference to matters of state election law. And that deference is even more heightened the closer you get to an election.
Well, Chris, we're in the midst of an election. 2 million Pennsylvanians have already voted. 3 million have requested their ballots early. We expect record turnout by Election Day. An election is going on. The Purcell principle makes clear that at this point in time the federal courts should not interfere with Pennsylvania state election law.
CUOMO: What do you read into the Chief Justice Roberts flipping on the Wisconsin decision, which we'll get into more, but there the court said "No Wisconsin, you can't have the extended timeline."
SHAPIRO: Yes.
CUOMO: The rationale was because a federal court started this. It's not coming to us from a state court determination. But Roberts flipped on that one, and he was in favor of the other conservative judge's position of holding Wisconsin to no extra days.
SHAPIRO: Yes. And Chris, you just hit the nail on the head, and I want to - I want to sort of pull out what you said there, and really focus on it, for a second.
The United States Supreme Court was reacting to a decision made by a federal court, dealing with the issue in Wisconsin. That's a very different procedural set-up than what we're dealing with in Pennsylvania, where the highest court in our state, our State Supreme Court, interpreted a matter of state law. Under the Purcell principle, that really should be the final word on this. And the federal court should not meddle in this issue that has been heard by the state's highest court. That's a very different procedural issue than what came in Wisconsin.
CUOMO: Last thing, one of the operative principles, under the law here, will be "Equity abhors a forfeiture" which is that when people are relying on something, to be a certain way, and you're going to change it, you're going to create a forfeiture of rights, forfeiture of access, confusion, at a very sensitive time.
What is your concern, given the outbreak of cases, and what people already think they know about how to vote to avoid COVID, what happens if this goes south on you?
SHAPIRO: Yes, look, it can't. An election is already underway.
We keep telling people, Chris, "Make your plan to vote, whether you're voting early or whether you're voting on Election Day, make your plan to vote, whoever your preferred candidate is."
And I hate to kind of nerd-out on you, and keep coming back to the Purcell principle, but one of the very reasons why the federal courts are not supposed to meddle in these state election law matters is because, number one, it could confuse the voters, and number two, it makes it harder on the election officials, who are really just county employees, and volunteers in the counties, to run the election.
So, you speak to the very reason why the federal courts, at this late stage, shouldn't step in and meddle with our state election laws. Let us have an election.
Look, the reason we're in these situations, Chris, is because the President has been unbelievably litigious.
[21:35:00]
He's tried to undermine our voting process here in Pennsylvania. He has sued us. There's been five cases. He went 0-5. We're 5-0 to protect the rights of all voters here in Pennsylvania, to secure that right, and to make sure that their ballots are counted. That's my job as the Attorney General.
Unfortunately, we're having to beat-back attempts by this President, to undermine the vote. The good news is we're winning. We're in the midst of an election. It's time to just let people vote.
CUOMO: Well let's see what happens. We'll see if they grant cert. You're welcome back on the show to argue the merits, if that step is taken.
Attorney General Josh "Purcell" Shapiro, thank you very much.
All right, let's now turn to Wisconsin--
SHAPIRO: Good to be with you. CUOMO: --where the U.S. Supreme Court, excuse me, just denied an attempt, by Democrats, to extend their deadline for counting mail-in ballots.
We have Josh Kaul, he is the Wisconsin Attorney General, and Rick Pildes, a law professor here in New York, at NYU, who found his own words being used as part of a dissenting opinion by Justice Kavanaugh. But he says they were taken out of context.
Welcome to both of you.
A.G., let me start with you.
Distinction with a difference, Pennsylvania says "Hey, this is about our Supreme Court going through our state law, and our reckoning of our Constitution. We're good. If you want Wisconsin to be about federal law, then the judge can come to a different decision, so the Supreme Court did what it did."
Do you believe Wisconsin was treated fairly by the Supreme Court?
JOSH KAUL, WISCONSIN ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well the rule is now clear that voters in Wisconsin need to get their absentee ballots in by Election Day. That's what's critical for people, in my state, to know.
A lot of absentee ballots have gone out by mail. A lot of them have been sent back in. But for voters, who have an absentee ballot that they received by mail, that they plan to vote, what I want to encourage people to do is to either return it to a drop box now or take to it a clerk's office. Putting in the mail, at this point, one week before Election Day is too risky. So, I'm encouraging folks to drop those ballots off in person.
CUOMO: Why is a week not long enough?
KAUL: Well, unfortunately, the Postal Service is not working as quickly as it used to.
And my colleague A.G. Shapiro, who's an outstanding A.G., in Pennsylvania, and I, and others have challenged the rollbacks at the Post Office. And we have won and we've been successful.
But the Post Office still hasn't gotten back to the efficiency it used to be at. So, rather than chancing it, we're encouraging people to get those ballots in, in-person.
CUOMO: How big a deal is this hardship, potentially, given the case explosion in your State?
KAUL: The good news is that we're in a really different position than we were in April. We had a high-profile election a few weeks after COVID really hit the U.S. And that's an election that, in my view, never should have taken place on that date.
But now, clerks have had months to prepare. They have had time to make sure that people are following safety protocols, like socially distancing, and that they have hand sanitizer. So, I believe that people voting in-person in Wisconsin now are going to be safe, both from the pandemic and from any other concerns like voter intimidation.
CUOMO: So then, why is the handsome professor with us? I'll tell you why. In the - in Justice Kavanaugh's opinion, in this case, he quoted a law review article, and it said the following.
"The States are aware of the risks described by Professor Pildes. Late-arriving ballots open up one of the greatest risks of what might, in our era of" hyperbolized - "hyperpolarized political parties, and existential politics, destabilize the election results."
You say, Professor, "Happy to be quoted, but get it right." You were taken out of context, how so?
RICK PILDES, CONSTITUTIONAL LAW PROFESSOR, NYU LAW SCHOOL, CNN ELECTION LAW ANALYST: Well I was certainly quoted accurately. And it's been my view since March that we do want to encourage as many ballots to be cast and received by Election Day as possible. We want to encourage voters to do that.
But I was writing to policymakers. I didn't say anything about courts, what they should or shouldn't do, what legal doctrine should or shouldn't be here.
And actually, I urged policymakers to consider extending the absentee receipt deadline, given the huge volume of ballots we are going to see, and given potential delays in the Postal Service.
Now, I still believe, and have said all along, Chris, that if people can vote in-person, they ought to do it, whether early or Election Day, as long as they're not particularly in vulnerable categories, or if they vote absentee, drop that ballot off in-person, return it to the election office in person, and if you mail it, mail it very early. This is very late already now.
CUOMO: So, what troubled you about what you read in the Judge's decision?
PILDES: Well my concern is that I was not speaking to the courts about what the courts should or shouldn't do--
CUOMO: What's the difference between speaking to--
PILDES: --what constitutional doctrine--
CUOMO: --policy matters, and speaking to a court. Explain to people.
PILDES: Oh that's a fundamental - well there's a fundamental difference between obviously, between making policy, and what constitutional doctrine constraints policymakers to do.
Policymakers have lots of discretion about how to regulate the election process. Courts have a much more minimal role in that process.
[21:40:00]
CUOMO: And what do you think this is going to mean, having these kinds of decisions, limiting, especially if Pennsylvania comes back up, before the court, you think that will happen. And what could the impact be, especially in the COVID environment, with people being so worried about going to the polls?
PILDES: I would be absolutely stunned, if the Supreme Court's now reversed course in Pennsylvania, and said these ballots, three days after the election, are not valid votes. I doubt the court will do that. The court has already refused to intervene there.
I think, it's very likely, down the road, the court will hear the Pennsylvania case, and will conclude, going forward, for future elections, that courts cannot do what the Pennsylvania court did. I think that's likely.
But I don't think the court is going to pull the rug out under from voters in Pennsylvania, who have relied now, on the Supreme Court saying, we're not going to stop that three-day extension.
CUOMO: We will see. Mr. Attorney General, thank you very much. Professor, as always, appreciate it. Thank you for being with us on an important night.
PILDES: Thank you very much, Chris.
CUOMO: Boy, I'll tell you. You have the election, and you have the pandemic, and they are literally on a collision course. And, of course, this is all we're talking about. What matters more? We're in the middle of a pandemic and we are in the middle of a definitional election. So it's, of course, it's the entire news cycle.
But there are other things that matter and it will matter to your vote, OK, especially when it comes to how we are dealing with what is perceived as systemic racism, when it comes to policing.
Another Black man has been killed. Once more, this President is silent. Once again, people are in pain, and not being heard, so they have taken to the streets. And righteous calls for justice are being marred by acts of injustice in their midst. Cops hurt, property destroyed, another family grieving.
We have the father of Walter Wallace Jr. here tonight and their attorney. Where is their fight for answers headed? We'll tell you next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Second night, protests underway after the shooting death of 27- year-old Walter Wallace Jr. by Philadelphia police.
Officers were called to the scene Monday. Why? Report of a man with a knife. They showed up. They found a man with a knife. Cell phone video shows us what happened next.
It's absolutely disturbing, and it's absolutely reality, and we need to see it, if we want to deal with it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Watch my--
(YELLING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yo, this is just crazy out here.
(YELLING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no, no!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gun! Gun! They've got a gun!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A knife--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They've got a gun!
(YELLING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No! No! No!
(YELLING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clear out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move! Move! Move!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No!
(GUNSHOTS FIRED)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Now, the woman you saw in the video, chasing the man in black was his mother. And she was pleading with him to calm down or try to control himself, why, because Walter Wallace Jr. was in distress.
The family says it alerted police that Wallace Jr. had mental health issues that police needed to use de-escalation tactics. They didn't have enough TASERs.
Walter Wallace Sr. joins us now, alongside the family attorney, Shaka Johnson.
Counselor, thank you for joining us.
And Mr. Wallace, I am very sorry to meet you under these circumstances. But I want to make sure that the country knows that this happened, understands your pain and understands what you want them to know.
Let's begin with not letting your son be defined by what took him out of this world, but what made him important while he was here. What do you want people to know about your son?
WALTER WALLACE SR., FATHER OF WALTER WALLACE JR.: Well, I want people to know, I don't pertain to all this violence and looting, you know what I mean, and I don't want to leave a bad scar on my son, and my family, with this looting and chaos stuff, you know what I mean, with the violent, must with - even with the Police Department, looting stores, burning.
I mean, this is where we live, and that's the only community resource we have. And we take all the resource, burn it down, we don't have anything. So, I want, in my son's name, and everybody, to stop this, and give my son a chance, and our family like we decent people, you know what I mean?
Don't want us to target us like - like we're like we animals, and we is not. We deserve respect, and I ask the public, and anybody that have respect for our family, to pray for us, and cut it out because the looting is a very mindset, you know what I mean?
CUOMO: Right.
WALLACE SR.: And it's not going to bring my son back. And it's not going to - do know this is going to escalate things to get worst instead of better.
[21:50:00]
So that's why I've got this man beside me, and his team, to help me, my family, and everybody else, to send a SOS out, to tell people to stop this looting, and stop burning - burning our city down, you know what I mean?
CUOMO: I hear you.
WALLACE SR.: It's not going to solve anything. It's going to make things worse. You know what I mean?
CUOMO: I hear you. It absolutely does.
WALLACE SR.: And my son wouldn't want that.
CUOMO: It absolutely does.
WALLACE SR.: Yes.
CUOMO: You want justice, not more injustice, even if people are doing it in the name of justice.
WALLACE SR.: Yes, yes.
SHAKA JOHNSON, WALLACE FAMILY ATTORNEY: Yes.
CUOMO: But let's get to one--
WALLACE SR.: Yes, I want - I want it done by the legal way.
CUOMO: Understood. And let's get what that's about.
Counselor, did I have it right--
JOHNSON: Yes.
CUOMO: --that people told the police, from the family, or on behalf of the family that Walter was dealing with mental health issues, that he was in distress, he was on medication, and they should deal with him that way?
JOHNSON: Good evening, Chris, and thank you for having us. Yes. You got it exactly right.
The officers, who responded, at the fatal time in question, were apprised that Mr. Wallace was in fact in crisis. They were told that by his wife, before the video that has now gone viral began to be recorded. His wife told them he is manic, he is bipolar, he is in crisis.
And unfortunately, the officers were not equipped with A, the training, or B, the proper equipment to deal with a person, who was experiencing crisis in that moment.
You don't deal with crisis with a firearm. You don't meet a person who is experiencing a mental health crisis, or a breakdown, or having some sort of mental infirmity, you don't meet them with a firearm.
And unfortunately, the officers who did not have less-than-lethal options, on their gun belt, obviously had only one option to turn to. And that was to execute a death sentence on Mr. Wallace.
WALLACE SR.: Yes.
CUOMO: Mr. Wallace, do you believe that this was about color, or condition, his mental health, and the police inability or ability to deal with it, or both?
WALLACE SR.: We know - we know - I believe it's both, because they overlook things. I mean as somebody this is what we call common sense. I mean you got to look at things. I mean, if somebody tell you something, you know, you are supposed to take that and respect it.
So, if you tell me something, I overlook it, don't pay you no mind, that means I should be paying it because of taking somebody life, because as I should have - it could have been dealt in a different way. He could have called his superior to handle this situation. You know what I mean?
CUOMO: You think that your son was--
WALLACE SR.: It didn't had to go to, to death.
CUOMO: Do you think your son would have hurt the officers?
WALLACE SR.: No. He can't hurt a goddamn fly. You know what I mean? He always--
CUOMO: Even with a knife?
WALLACE SR.: No, he can't even inflict a self - he just - he just - he had - he had mental issue. And it could have been dealt with. It wouldn't had to - I mean I wouldn't be talking to you now.
I mean it's I believe in the - I believe in the justice system. We got good - we got good cops, and we all sure got bad cops. So, we all got to be hold accountable for what we do in life, all of us.
JOHNSON: Can I add something to that, Chris, please?
CUOMO: Go ahead, Counselor.
JOHNSON: I think that one of the things that we've spoken about, since the onset of this particular issue, one of the things that we talked about, almost immediately, was the fact that the officers, vis-a-vis, the Police Department, did not have what they needed. There wasn't even a less-than-lethal option available.
CUOMO: Right.
JOHNSON: So to our question about whether--
CUOMO: They didn't have TASERs.
JOHNSON: --he could have - they didn't have TASERs.
WALLACE SR.: Yes.
JOHNSON: They didn't have - which is important.
I can't think of a scenario that is better-designed for the deployment of an electronic control device than this particular scenario here, where you respond to an incident, you are given some preliminary information, which officers sometimes don't have that a person is in mental decline, mental crisis.
WALLACE SR.: Yes.
JOHNSON: And then, the person displays a weapon, not the kind of weapon that can hurt you from a distance, but one that requires close quarters combat.
WALLACE SR.: Yes.
JOHNSON: And then, you're outside, so you don't have the element of being indoors and contained. The best thing for that particular scenario would have been what the Philadelphia Police Department has not outfitted their officers with, which is less-than-lethal weapons. There is no priority that's been put on that particular thing.
So, when you say, with respect to, is this race, is this color, is when you gave us those scenarios, to choose from, I have to wonder, when you have a $730 million budget, annually, and you do not put priority on less-lethal methods, but every training academy, you give officers a badge, you give them a gun, you give them rounds of ammunition, and you train them how to kill.
WALLACE SR.: Kill.
JOHNSON: You train them how to hit center mass, and headshots. You train them on that. But then you set--
CUOMO: You are setting them - you are setting them up for failure if they have to deal--
JOHNSON: I'm sorry, Chris.
CUOMO: --you are setting them up for failure if they have to deal with more sophisticated situations and somebody trying to shoot at them.
JOHNSON: You are - you are setting them up, you are setting the community up.
CUOMO: Yes.
JOHNSON: And it is a lose-lose situation.
[21:55:00]
In this scenario, I feel obviously my heart is wrenched, and it goes out to my client and his family, the neighborhood, people who were out there watching. But the officers, in this particular case as well, were not even given an option.
CUOMO: Right.
JOHNSON: Vis-a-vis their lack of equipment.
CUOMO: I hear you. I don't want to let you go, Mr. Wallace, with again, extending my condolences to the family, and promising you, we'll stay on the story. But also, please, send my best to your wife. I cannot imagine her
pain. And please let her know that she comes across on that tape as doing everything that any mother could have done in the situation to help their child.
WALLACE SR.: Yes.
CUOMO: And I just - I hope she is OK.
WALLACE SR.: Yes, thank you, and I appreciate, you know what I mean? I really do, you know what I mean, from being on here, expressing my opinion.
JOHNSON: Thank you. Thank you, Chris, for having us.
WALLACE SR.: Thank you very much. Thank you very much.
JOHNSON: And for taking an interest, quite frankly--
WALLACE SR.: Yes.
JOHNSON: --in what's going on here.
WALLACE SR.: Yes.
JOHNSON: It's not a local story. And I thank you--
WALLACE SR.: Yes.
JOHNSON: --for taking interest in it.
CUOMO: If we don't--
WALLACE SR.: Thank you. Thank you, I appreciate it.
CUOMO: --if we don't have each other, we don't have anything. Walter, god bless.
WALLACE SR.: Yes, thank you.
CUOMO: Counselor Johnson, thank you very much. We are a call away. And again, my condolences to Mother Wallace.
We got to be better than this. We've got to be better than this. We've got to be better than this.
We will be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Appreciate you giving us the opportunity to report to you and for you tonight, so thank you for watching.
"CNN TONIGHT" with D. Lemon starts right now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST, CNN TONIGHT WITH DON LEMON: Truer words have never been spoken. "We've got to do better. We've got to do better. We've got to do better." It's unbelievable, right?
CUOMO: That poor mother!
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Chasing him around, trying to keep him under control, trying to keep him away, trying to get the police to understand, it's just heartbreaking.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Especially when you know we can do better.
