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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Interview With Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT); Donald Trump Holds Arizona Rallies With Few Masks And No Distancing As His Task Force Warns Of Unrelenting Community Spread; New CNN National Poll: Biden Leads Trump 54 To 42 Percent; New Kushner-Woodward Tapes Released; Kushner Admits Trump Passed The Buck On Pandemic Response In New Woodward Tape; Trump Continues To Assail MI Governor Whitmer; Hurricane Zeta Hits New Orleans. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired October 28, 2020 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: When it comes to those early ballots, it is being smashed when it comes to records -- Erin.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right. Thank you very much, Kyung. Even here in New York, a state that, you know, everyone assumes how it will go, today, day four of early voting. They said three hours of wait and it was the shortest it have been thus far.
Thanks for joining us. Anderson starts now.
[20:00:22]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And good evening. It is, as you know, just six days until Election Day during an election season that has been defined by one thing: the coronavirus.
President Trump doesn't want it that way, of course, but the virus doesn't have a preferred candidate. It doesn't bend to any one candidate's will and it won't be gaslit. Left unchecked or not taken seriously, it is simply outrageous. That is what the virus is doing right now across this country.
And according to health experts, that's what it will continue to do long past Election Day. But tonight, as both campaigns crisscross the country, we're getting another reminder of just how cynical the Trump administration has always been about the pandemic that has now killed nearly 228,000 Americans.
We now know from the words of the President's own son-in-law on tape to Bob Woodward, in newly released clips, clips we'd never heard before that the plan was from the start what we have long suspected it was, but hoped it wasn't.
Simply put, according to Jared Kushner himself, someone who has never held any position of public responsibility before in his life, the plan was to leave the hard work of tracking and containing the virus to the States. That's all the messy work, the stuff that's you might get blamed for. The plan was they take credit for success. Human lives be damned, the opening up. It's really is that simple and that clear and that sad. The President
and in this case, Jared Kushner said it out loud. You'll hear it for yourself and Bob Woodward joins us later in the program tonight.
That new recording tracks with where we left things last night with the President when the White House had just released this list of accomplishments. Take a look. On the Science and Technology front, you can see the top bullet point reads ending the COVID-19 pandemic. According to them, they are ending the pandemic.
By the time the night was over, the data team at Johns Hopkins University have reported 73,240 new COVID cases for the day and 985 deaths.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: That's a bad position to be in as we continue into the cool months of the fall. And soon, the cold months of the winter. We're starting seeing something going in the wrong direction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That's Dr. Anthony Fauci today echoing his exact same unheeded warning about going in the wrong direction from before the last big peak. And here is a fellow Taskforce member saying, directly rebutting the President's repeated and false claim that our only problem is that we're testing to gosh, darn much.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADMIRAL BRETT GIROIR, H.H.S. ASSISTANT SECRETARY: It's not just a function of testing. Yes, we are getting more cases identified, but the cases are actually going up. And we know that, too, because hospitalizations are going up.
Now, the peak was in the 70,000s in July, we're at about 42,000 to 43,000 now, so we're much less than July, but those are going up. Those are real.
And we do know that deaths are increasing, unfortunately. So we do assess that the cases are actually going up. They are real, because hospitalizations and deaths are starting to go up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: In fact, CNN has just obtained the Taskforce's weekly report to states and the outlook is grim. And I'm quoting now from it: "We continue to see unrelenting broad community spread in the Midwest, upper Midwest and West."
In Wisconsin, Public Health officials reporting more than 3,800 new cases today and a staggering 27.2 percent positivity rate. Kansas officials reporting a record high number of people in ICU beds. The governor there ordering flags to fly at half-staff through sundown on Friday to honor the lives lost. Indiana officials say they are seeing the highest number of people hospitalized since the pandemic began.
Now ordinarily, this is the part where we would play you a clip of the President saying, oh, we're rounding the turn or rounding the corner or there's light at the end of the tunnel. We're not going to play that tonight, not because he is not still saying it, he is. He is still complaining about too much testing. He is still holding potential super spreader campaign events.
But there's no reason to show it because it's no longer news. News would be the President encouraging people to wear a mask. That would be new. To do it for their friends and their neighbors and for the country.
News would be the President addressing the pandemic, honestly. But the President and his people are doing none of those things. They can't even admit at the very moment that cases in this country are spiraling out of control, that the idea of declaring victory over the coronavirus is absurd, let alone obscene.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: How can ending the pandemic be the top accomplishment of the White House?
HOGAN GIDLEY, TRUMP 2020 NATIONAL PRESS SECRETARY: Look, I think the President took leadership on this issue very early on when so many on the left refused to acknowledge it. Well, community by China --
CAMEROTA: Do you think the White House has ended it?
GIDLEY: The World Health Organization lied about all the malfeasance and even covered it up.
CAMEROTA: I'm not talking about fighting it. I am talking about ending it. Do you think that the pandemic has ended?
GIDLEY: Right. We're moving in the right direction from the middle of March. That's great news.
CAMEROTA: But from almost a thousand people still died. I mean, Hogan, I am just talking about the language. Why does it say as the top accomplishment ending the COVID-19 pandemic? Do you think it has ended?
[20:05:12]
GIDLEY: I didn't write -- I didn't write the document. I don't know who said that.
CAMEROTA: But you think that's erroneous.
GIDLEY: The President is not saying that on the campaign trail.
CAMEROTA: Okay, that part is wrong.
GIDLEY: I don't know. I have not seen the document. CAMEROTA: No, but I mean reading it to you.
GIDLEY: I don't know, I am just telling you, we're moving in the right direction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And that person is a paid spokesman for the White House. Sad. Nine hundred and eighty-five Americans died yesterday because of COVID. They're dead.
The experts warn it could get worse, yet, as you'll hear for yourself tonight when Bob Woodward joins us, it has long been the plan of this President to not take responsibility. That was the plan, only to make others do the hard work: the states, the governors second guess them at every turn, strong arm his own experts into soft peddling the risk and loosening the guidelines as Jared Kushner boasted to Bob Woodward back in April.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JARED KUSHNER, SENIOR ADVISER TO DONALD TRUMP: The last thing was kind of doing the guidelines, which was interesting and that in my mind was almost like -- you know, it was almost like Trump getting the country back from the doctors, right, in the sense that what he now did was, you know, he is going to own the open up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Yes, those damn doctors. Trying to control the country. Trump got it back from the doctors, opened it up. Getting the country back from the doctors and then he'll own the open up. That's pretty sad. He'll own the open up.
Meaning dodge the blame for a botched response, blame governors, leave it up to the states, do all the messy work, you know, the testing, the contact tracing, and all of that sort of stuff. You know, the deaths. Claim credit for the open up. And that's what he is still doing.
But with Election Day nearing and cases climbing, new CNN polling shows what voters think of the approach, only 39 percent now say he would do a better job against the pandemic, as opposed to 57 percent for Joe Biden. It has doubled the deficit he had back in April.
Of course, in some of the states where the pandemic is raging hardest, people have already been voting by the tens of millions.
Here's our chief national correspondent, John King with a look at some of the crucial states. So John, President Trump made two stops in Arizona today. Senator Harris held a rally in Tucson, who has the edge there?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The Democrats do, Anderson. We lean it blue right now. I'm going to start on the race to 270 map. It's one of the reasons we have Joe Biden across the finish line with a handful of days to go because he is rewriting the map. He is getting Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. They are leaning
blue. They went red in 2016. Arizona has been a Republican state, you have to go back to Bill Clinton. We lean at blue right now, which is why President Trump is trying to get it back.
He is in a hard race to try to find some way to get to 270. That's why he's there.
But I want to switch maps just for a second and zero in. This is the 2016 map when President Trump carried it. It was pretty close. Not as close as Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan; but 91,000 votes 49 to 45.5. Here is the battle right here.
Maricopa County is 60 percent plus of the state. It is one of the fastest growing areas in America. Guess what, Anderson? The suburbs are already turning against Trump. You have a lot of older voters in Arizona. You have a lot of Latino voters in Arizona.
You were just talking about the coronavirus. Give me one second here. Let me just tap this out and bring this up. Look at this overlay. I want to bring you back to the State of Arizona. The red is bad about coronavirus. Look at all of this coronavirus.
One of the states especially in the summer surge, hardest hit, so the demographics of Arizona we are changing anyway. COVID makes the President's challenge all the more steep.
COOPER: In Michigan, virtually all the heavy hitters are passing through there this week. President Trump and Vice President Pence, former President Obama, Vice President Biden: the question is obviously whether the Trump campaign can pull off a repeat of what happened in 2016, where he had the win there. What does it look like?
KING: Yet another poll today saying not now, not now. We'll watch for late momentum. That's what happened in 2016. But another poll today is showing a double-digit lead for Joe Biden. And again, I'm going to stick with this map for a minute because again, the President is not just running against Joe Biden. He is running against his record. He is running his record on this coronavirus.
Michigan not as bad as some of these other states. But let me just bring it out. Up here, you notice in the Upper Peninsula, this tends to be Republican country. They have been hard hit up. Moderately hitting the rest of the state.
Early on, Michigan had a problem. They've done a pretty good job of slamming down the positivity rate. We'll wait to see what happens with the most recent surge. But one of the dynamics here, Anderson, is the President has been at war with the Democratic governor repeatedly.
Not only does he have a huge gender gap, she gets high marks from most voters, not maybe hardcore Republicans, but from most voters, she gets high marks on how she is handling coronavirus. So the President is picking a fight about leadership that he is losing right now.
COOPER: How do things look in Wisconsin because the governor there says the state is facing an urgent crisis, obviously something that could influence who people vote for?
KING: And again, so you know, 16 votes here, 10 votes here in the Electoral College. Right? The President needed them both. Let me move over to Wisconsin, you see a lot more red here. Right? You see a lot more red. COVID, again, it's the President's foe as much as Joe Biden.
Let me look at it this way for you. This is not what you want in the final week of a campaign. These are the headlines today in Wisconsin. Worst day yet again. Record deaths in Wisconsin right now from the coronavirus, the final day of the campaign. The "Wisconsin State Journal" now a nightmare scenario. COVID is getting as much if not more attention than the campaign in the final day.
So let's just pull it out and get rid of this and show you one more way to look at this. If you come up in here, Trump's approval on coronavirus in Michigan and Wisconsin. Right? This is the new ABC/Washington Post poll out today. Forty two percent in Michigan approve his handling of the coronavirus, 39 percent of Wisconsin. Guess what? When you look at the ballot, he is getting 44 percent in Michigan, about 40 percent of Wisconsin.
[20:10:33]
KING: If you watch the polls, look at the President's COVID approval rating. Well, how do people think he is handling the coronavirus? It matches up almost exactly to what he is getting at the ballot right now. You can't win an election at 42 and 39 percent. You can't win an election at 44 percent. That's one of the challenges for the President right now. He's in the low 40s. He is struggling.
COOPER: John King, but just to make sure, just to clarify, these are all based on poll numbers. It's not actual votes. So I mean, it all depends on how many votes have been cast so far, who they voted for and who is going to come forward on Election Day and in the days before that?
KING: It absolutely does. This is a poll. This is just a public opinion poll. The early voting numbers everywhere right now favor the Democrats, but we're not done. We're not done. The question is Democrats are leading now. Can they sustain that to the finish line? It's an excellent point.
COOPER: John King, appreciate it. We're going to check back in with you shortly. Just prior this time, I spoke with former Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders, Independent senator from Vermont.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Senator Sanders, how are you feeling about where the Biden- Harris campaign is right now and also the chances of Democrats taking the Senate?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): I'm not one who speculates on elections, Anderson. I am cautiously optimistic. And all that I can say is that I and everybody -- everybody I know is going to be working as hard as we can for the next five days to make sure that Biden wins.
This is the most important election not only in our lifetimes, but in the modern history of this country. And I will do everything I can to see that Trump is defeated.
COOPER: In 2016, Hillary Clinton was ahead in many of the same states that Biden is according to polls ahead in, and obviously didn't get the electoral votes. Do you see a difference this time in the kind of support that Biden has?
SANDERS: I think so. I mean, the difference is that after four years, people now know Donald Trump, and they know his record. And you look at states like Wisconsin or Michigan, these are people -- these are states that are now dealing with this terrible pandemic and people understand that you have a President who has rejected science, a President who tells them on TV tonight, that we are effective, we are defeating the pandemic, and they are seeing it surging in their state.
So I think people have a sense of who Trump is, his anti-science attitude. I think people, Anderson, are sick and tired, really, of his lying every single day. They are concerned about his threats to the foundations of American democracy. They are upset and tired of his racism and his sexism and his xenophobia.
So, you know, I think it is a different circumstance. And I think, Biden, while I am not overly confident, you know, I'm going to work as hard as I can, I think Biden stands a very good chance of winning.
COOPER: You know, it's also interesting that the President is doing these -- you know, still doing these large rallies, getting people together, no social distancing. You know, the only people told really to wear masks are the people standing behind him who are seen on television.
You know, everybody else who is standing in front of him, most of them are aren't wearing masks. I don't understand why he would do this. I mean, I know it makes him feel good to like perform in front of a large audience and maybe feel that he has momentum.
But to me, it seems like anybody looking at this would see this as emblematic of the recklessness that this administration has had toward this entire pandemic.
SANDERS: You know, Anderson, you're talking to a guy who loves rallies. I'm a big rally guy myself. But I think we have held my campaign, some of the largest rallies of this entire election cycle. And so I understand why Trump, you know, wants to do it. It's fun to be talking to thousands of people and senior supporters out there.
But your point is very well taken. I mean, while it may be exciting for him to be with his supporters, people are turning on the television and they are saying, "My God, this pandemic is surging all across this country." We've lost over 225,000 people already. Hospitals are being filled to capacity and the President of the United States is doing exactly the opposite of what doctors and scientists are telling us we have to do. They say we've got to wear a mask. Many of his supporters are not
wearing masks. They say we have to social distance. These people are packed together. So I'll think, while it is exhilarating, I'm sure for the President and his supporters to do these rallies, I'm not sure for the folks back home who are watching them, they are saying is this really this anti-science leadership, the kind of leadership that we want to continue in the White House? I think in many respects, these rallies may be backfiring.
You know, I know it's easy for Trump to make fun of Biden's events. I myself was in Michigan and Pennsylvania and we talked to automobiles. You know what? It's not at all that exhilarating to be talking to cars because you can't see their expressions. And the honks are not cheers.
[20:15:38]
SANDERS: But we do that because --
COOPER: And I know you hear those car rallies and people are honking. The first time I heard it, I was like, God, why is everyone honking? And I realized, oh, that's how you do it in a rally.
SANDERS: Frankly, it's a very weird -- you know, I've done a million rallies. It's a very weird experience.
COOPER: Do you pause for the honks or do you just motor right through them?
SANDERS: It's a new experience, we are working our way through that, I can tell you. But you know, I think the people understand that we all have a responsibility as elected officials, as ordinary people, to do the best that we can not to spread this terrible virus.
And you've got a President who is doing exactly the opposite by view of what he shouldn't be doing. And you can make fun of Biden, and you can make fun of me, but I think we're doing the right thing and I think people appreciate that.
COOPER: Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez recently stressed the importance in her view of getting progressives into key Cabinet positions in a potential Biden administration if there is one. Would you be open to a Cabinet position, obviously, Labor Secretary has been talked about?
SANDERS: Well, I don't want to, you know, speculate too much. Again, the next five days, what I want to do is see Biden becomes the President. But this is what I do believe, Anderson.
The political world in America has changed and the Democratic Party has changed. And that is, we now have a very potent and growing progressive movement in this country of many, many, many millions of people. And the progressive movement, no matter who the names may be, the progressive movement deserves a seat at the table of the Biden administration.
We deserve Cabinet appointments. We deserve to have strong progressives filling important posts, so whether it's me or anybody else, Alexandria is absolutely right. The progressive movement now has earned its stripes. It deserves representation in a Biden administration.
COOPER: Senator Bernie Sanders, I appreciate your time. Thank you.
SANDERS: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: We are now in the medical side and a slew of alarming warnings from health professionals including the Coronavirus Taskforce is warning that they continue to see, quote, "unrelenting, broad community spread in the Midwest, upper Midwest and West."
Our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now. So Sanjay, you hear that warning from the Taskforce, how dire the situation?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, I mean, it's getting very concerning. I mean, we can show you the trend lines here that we have been following closely, and there's a couple things beyond the obvious that we're sort of really focused on.
You see, you'll see the numbers here when they put this up of the Midwest compared to the European Union, and you'll see that, you know, there's a lot of similarities here.
COOPER: We are not putting it up, apparently.
GUPTA: The concern is that not only are the numbers -- okay, well, that's what you would see if you could see this, is that the lines are actually both going up. But the pace at which the number of new cases are happening is also increasing. So they're not just going up, but the pace at which that is happening is going up.
Wisconsin right now, Anderson, if you look at per capita cases there, it's actually now exceeded what New York was back in April. April 10th was actually the highest per capita case count in New York. And now Wisconsin has exceeded that.
And that is sort of, you know, becoming sort of par for the course for many of these Midwestern states. So it's really concerning. I mean, it's no secret if you again -- if we had the map, it would show up -- but the northern part of the country is going to look a lot worse right now. The weather is cooler up there. The south maybe a little insulated from that, aside from Texas and New Mexico.
But the whole country really as, you know, Anderson, the numbers are going up and as the weather gets colder, it is just going to make it harder and harder to contain.
COOPER: There were several very serious warnings from key health officials today and I want to play part of some that Dr. Anthony Fauci said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FAUCI: If we get a vaccination campaign and by the second or third quarter of 2021, we have vaccinated a substantial proportion of the people. I think it will be easily by the end of 2021, and perhaps even into the next year, before we start having some semblances of normality.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Do you think that's accurate? I mean, normal life not until the end of next year into 2022?
GUPTA: I mean, you know, part of that I think, Anderson, really depends on how you how you define normalcy. I mean, it's like totally back to normal, you know everything is the way that it was before then, yes. But you know the thing is, Anderson like if you even think about the vaccine, you think about the mass, you think about what is the fundamental objective of all these things? It is to make it harder for the virus to find a home.
[20:20:15]
GUPTA: You know, the virus likes to jump from person to person and we have been pretty, pretty willing hosts over this past several months here in this country. If we could make it less hospitable for the virus, ultimately, the numbers will start to go down.
And you know, we will have a sense of normalcy, it might mean that we're wearing masks longer. But you know, that it's a small little strand of genetic material. It can't jump that far, pretty easily contained by a mask.
If the vaccine is 70 to 80 percent effective, and you know that percentage of people actually take it, we could start to see senses of normalcy the way Dr. Fauci is talking about perhaps even earlier, but there hasn't been a lot of indication that people will be willing to do the other things to bolster our protection and make it harder for the virus to jump around.
COOPER: Yes, the Public Health Admiral Giroir today said that the vaccine will end the pandemic. That's the end of the pandemic. That's not the case, it's not the end of the pandemic, it's -- I mean, it is something that can help end it, but it's not like everybody gets the vaccine, and it's suddenly gone. It's still out there.
GUPTA: Yes, it's not going to -- the virus is still out there and the vaccine won't flip a switch. And I think it's really important for people to know that because we've become this society that is, you know, the quick fix society. We're not going to even bother doing the small stuff because we're just going to wait for the big thing, the vaccine. But the vaccine is not going to flip that switch.
First of all, it may be two shots. This is going to be one of the largest distribution projects in human history. I mean, you're going to need, you know, 70 percent of the world ultimately vaccinated and these are challenging vaccines to distribute. And it might be something that's yearly because we don't even know how long the immunity would last from the vaccine. So it's going to end the virus is going to be around for a while.
You know, the H1N1 that you and I covered back in 2009, that was a descendant of the 1918 flu virus. The virus is still around. We just get better at dancing with it and dealing with it.
COOPER: I didn't realize that. Sanjay, thanks very much appreciate it.
A correction earlier, I said something wrong. I said that Hogan Gidley was a paid spokesman for the White House. In fact, he is now a spokesman for the Trump campaign. He left the White House position in July. I did not know that he got the promotion, I guess.
Coming up next -- I apologize for the mistake. Coming up next, John King is back breaking down that new CNN polling and later, Bob Woodward on his stunning revelations: what Jared Kushner said about the administration's plan for handling a pandemic that's led to so many unnecessary deaths.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:26:18]
COOPER: There's breaking news tonight, it speaks to just how remarkable this election season is, 75.8 million Americans have already cast their ballots. That's according to a survey of election officials in all 50 states in Washington, D.C. by CNN/Edison Research and Catalyst.
Nearly 76 million or 56 percent of the more than 136 million ballots cast in the 2016 presidential election, so there's that and there's new CNN polling we mentioned at the top of the program, though no one should read too much into any individual poll at any point in time. There's still plenty to learn from this one. John King is back to tell us more. So what some of the key findings?
KING: There is plenty to learn, Anderson. I'm a guy who is normally telling you at this point of the race, my hair is on fire, don't pay attention to national polls. Well, guess what? You can pay attention to this one.
This is the map we'll fill in on Tuesday night. Let's go back to 2016 and look at some of the findings in our brand new poll.
Let's just bring up choice for President. I have a timeline here. Our poll, the latest poll is right here. Joe Biden has a 12-point national lead right now, a 12-point national lead. Hillary Clinton's was four at this point.
So even if you're a Trump supporter, you don't believe the polls. Hillary Clinton was up three on Election Day, she won the National Vote by two. Joe Biden is up 12 right now with five days to go. This is a big deal, in part because the stability of the race.
He was up 13 in April. He is up 12 now. This has been a stable race. Again, I say this every time in the final week.
Right now you see no evidence of Trump momentum. It doesn't mean it won't happen. It doesn't mean we will find it, but we don't see it at the moment and that is a big deal. We get that out of the way and show you a little bit more.
When you dig deeper into the bones of this, Anderson. That's where it gets interesting, right? You want to bring up favorability ratings, right? Trump has been throwing the kitchen sink at Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, career politician, can't trust him. He is in the basement. Trying to change people's opinion of Joe Biden.
Favorable or unfavorable? Forty one percent of Americans view the incumbent President favorably, 57 percent unfavorably. Fifty five percent view Biden favorably. He is above water if you will, 42 percent, unfavorable.
So on questions of personal likability, character, honesty, and integrity, Joe Biden is thumping the incumbent President of the United States. That matters when people pick a President.
So if you're if you're losing the character debate, one way to win is the policy debate. Right? Well, let's just look at this. In our new poll, Donald Trump wins on the economy. It's the only big issue he wins on. He wins just barely over Joe Biden.
On the coronavirus, on crime, on healthcare, on race, on Supreme Court picks: voters prefer and on many of these issues by a wide margin, Joe Biden over Donald Trump. So the reason this was the map four years ago, the reason we have the map like this right now, leaning overwhelmingly Biden's way go through the issues, go through the pinnacle personal characteristics, look at the horse race. At this moment, people just aren't buying what the President is selling.
COOPER: John stick around. I'm going to bring in CNN chief political correspondent, Dana Bash and CNN political reporter, Abby Philip.
Dana, Biden is leading that new CNN national poll that John was just showing us. I mean, with all the attendant caveats, it is a poll, it's not votes, people still need to go out and vote for all the candidates they want to vote for. It is wider than any candidate's lead in more than two decades. How confident are Democrats feeling? And when does confidence turn into overconfidence?
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Okay, well, if you've met any Democrats, you probably know the answer is they are not, they are nervous because that's how they are by nature. That's their DNA and they will admit that to you.
But one of the things that I find most interesting in CNN's new poll is the question of favorability, meaning, how much do people actually like these candidates? And the question on that for Joe Biden compared to Hillary Clinton.
In 2016, Anderson, about 20 percent of people who were polled said that they didn't really like either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. And by Election Day, many of those broke for Donald Trump and that's basically how he won.
Now, there's only four percent in this poll that say they don't like either Joe Biden or Donald Trump and separately, Joe Biden's favorability rating is so much higher. People like Joe Biden, in general and definitely compared to Donald Trump.
So that's a big indicator and a factor that this is a very different election and candidates' comparison than four years ago.
[20:30:22]
COOPER: Abby, more than a third of registered voters, more than 75 million Americans have already cast their vote, it obviously underscores enthusiasm about the race or fear about the race or whatever, but interest in the race. Beyond that, though, what can we take away from Do you think from the early turnout?
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITCAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, I do think that we should recognize that for this election cycle, for the first time, in probably the history of this country, more Americans have had more different ways to vote than ever before. And I think what we're seeing with those numbers is that they're taking advantage of it.
When you give people an opportunity to cast a ballot in a convenient way they do it. The other thing that we see is that younger people, probably for two reasons, one because of interest in this race and two, because again, they can, they have more ways of doing it now than ever before. They are participating in this process. You're also seeing extraordinary turnout in places like Texas, in places like two of the most populous counties in Arizona, a major swing state.
These are -- we're going to look back on these days. And we're going to see kind of the building blocks of massive turnout in this cycle and potentially turnout that could affect the actual outcome of this race. We don't know yet. But one thing we do know is that based on our polling, that's out today, Biden's voters are much more likely to cast their ballots early than Trump's voters.
They are also more likely to cast their ballot by mail. And I think we also know that when turnout is high, Republicans generally believe that high turnout benefits Democrats and vice versa. So, take that with for what you will. But I do think that that turnout is really an important part of the story. And it could make a big difference in some unexpected places, Georgia, Texas, Arizona, come Election Day,
COOPER: John, fast forward to next Tuesday night, what state is going to be first on your list for potential signs of where things are headed?
KING: Well, one important note first, we're not quite sure because it's going to be such an election, unlike any other in the sense that some states will report those mail-in ballots early because they've been able to count them. So we may see Joe Biden take a lead in places we know he's not going to win, because the mail-in ballots were just personally Democrat, other places might not count those ballots until the morning after or very late at night.
So Donald Trump may jump out to huge lead some places where in the end, it's not going to be that way. So we need to be careful and transparent about this. But there are some rules. I remember in 2016, I'm going to go to Kentucky. Everybody's saying why would you go to Kentucky, Kentucky is going to be red, it likely will be red in 2020. But remember, early in 2016, the polls closed early here.
So you started to see -- we started to see right here in these rural counties up along the Kentucky, Ohio border, Donald Trump near 77%. Right. Why is that a big deal? Because it was so much better than Mitt Romney did four years before that. So we're going to get to study, are these white rural voters coming out for Donald Trump A, in high numbers and B, is he winning the percentages that he did? Because that was our first clue that people were coming out of the woodwork and these counties where Democrats used to do not well, but OK, they were getting swamped.
And you start in Kentucky. You start across the border in southern Ohio, and you places down here, you saw the same thing happening 66 percent there. You go back just 50 percent for Mitt Romney, we saw this starting to happen. Why does that matter? Even if you know Kentucky is going to go red, Ohio is likely to go red, although Ohio was a toss up this year, because that gave us clues about what was going to happen in Pennsylvania, because these are the same people.
They live down here. So, that's what I'll be looking for, when the polls close. In the Election Day turnout, is there evidence that Donald Trump is over performing equal or if he's underperforming 2016? That would be our first sign of trouble.
COOPER: And John, just -- do you have a sense of -- I mean, I'm sure you get this question from like, every Uber driver and everybody on the street, but how long it's going to be before there's an answer.
KING: No, we don't. We don't. We don't because we need to be patient and we need to help everybody understand. These election officials are good people. They're doing the best they can. But some counties in Pennsylvania, some places in Michigan say it could possibly be Thursday or Friday. I will say this, I'm going to pull back out to the map.
We do know Florida, I'm going to go to 2016, so I don't confuse people here. Florida has a pretty good history of county votes and they say they're prepared. It is possible late on election night, midnight or so maybe 11:00 or somewhere in that ballpark, that we know Florida. If Joe Biden wins Florida and North Carolina says it's going to count pretty hard on Election Day.
If Joe Biden wins either or both of those, then we may not get to 270 but we'll have a good sense. If Donald Trump is winning Florida on election night, we might be at this for a couple days.
COOPER: John King, Dana Bash, Abby Philip, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Also tonight, six days before the election of more than two-year old mystery solved. The name of anonymous, the unnamed senior administration official who wrote an op-ed in the New York Times about being part of the resistance and how senior officials were working quote diligently from within unquote to thwart President Trump's worst inclinations.
[20:35:10]
He is Miles Taylor, former chief of staff in the Department of Homeland Security, someone who's been on this program and actually denied being anonymous. Taylor, a CNN contributor revealed his identity today. He now supports Joe Biden. Today at a rally in Arizona President Trump responded calling Taylor a quote sleazebag. In a statement the White House called Taylor quote, low level disgruntled former staffer. You can see Taylor's response to all this when he appears next hour on "CUOMO PRIMETIME".
Just ahead tonight, how Trump and his allies sought to pass the buck but claim any potential successes in the early days of the pandemic. Jared Kushner's tape recorded admission to reporter Bob Woodward, who joins us next.
Also, the latest on Hurricane Zeta, which has now hit New Orleans leaving hundreds of thousands without power, when we continue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:40:44]
COOPER: Want to spend a significant amount of time now in those tapes of Jared Kushner that we mentioned the top of the program tapes that have never been released until now. These are comments the President's son-in-law who's also a senior adviser to the President made to report a Bob Woodward part of Woodward's research for his newly released book Rage.
They occurred in April and May, as deaths from COVID-19 reached their all time peak. And there, they show what critics have long said of the President as allies that they've seen the coronavirus, less as a serious public health issue and more a political problem that they could message away. You'll hear that on the tape.
Also, others offering more proof that the White House White House was deliberately holding back information of just how bad the pandemic could become because their focus was on market reaction ahead of the election.
Joining me now is Bob Woodward, whose bestseller Rage was released last month. Bob, thanks so much for joining us again. I want to play something that Jared Kushner said to you on April 18th. At this point, in the pandemic, more than 38,000 Americans had already died, there were more than 732,000 cases. Let's listen to this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP) JARED KUSHNER, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR ADVISOR: So we're testing now what he's been saying to us, don't fall into the same trap that we fell into the first time, the states have to own the testing, the federal government should not own the testing. And the federal government should not own kind of the rules. It's got to be up to the governor's because that's the way the Federalist system works.
But, the President also is very smart politically with the way he did that fight with the governors to basically say that no, no, no I own the opening. Because again, the opening is going to be very popular. People want this country open. But if it opens in the wrong way, the question will be did the governor's follow the guidelines we set out or not?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COOPER: It's a really remarkable thing. First of all, the idea that they fell into a trap, the first time on testing is remarkable. The idea that it's a trap for the federal government to actually be responsible in helping get tests to labs and get Americans tested. It is so cynical the way they're looking at it clearly through a lens of politics from the get go.
BOB WOODWARD, AUTHOR: Well, it's not just cynical, it's manipulative, to the 10th degree. I mean here, what Kushner is saying, look, let's give the hard stuff the testing to the governor's, and let's require them to deal with these arrangements would which we've made for opening. And then when there's opening, Trump will embrace that. And that will be his.
And what struck me is it's sad with not any hesitation it said like, OK, this is where we're going, we're going to do what governors, oh well, they're here to be used in manipulated by the President. And it's, if it's possible to be shocked. I think that at least takes you into that arena.
COOPER: It's also that, you know, he's talking about the that don't fall into the trap of testing again, and that he talks about the Federalist system and basically says, well, you know, in the Federalist system, it's really the governor's responsibility to do testing. But then he immediately goes to saying, but as for opening up, which is an opening up state by state in localities, in some cases, a local areas within a state, he -- the President is going to grab that away from the governors damn the Federalist system, because that's where the credit is going to be. He's going to brand himself as the opening guy.
WOODWARD: Yes, and see they release these guidelines, which essentially, we're going to require that the states have to show improvement over two weeks. And what happened right before this conversation with Kushner is the President got impatient.
And you may recall he tweeted out all in caps, liberate Minnesota, liberate Michigan, liberate Virginia and the whole design was not only to take the opening and deliberation unto himself, but it was to jump the gun and all these stodgy people who were worried about the virus. And the rules, which the doctors had written and actually felt quite happy about, oh, no, they're everyone else in this.
[20:45:24]
And I guess this is kind of the, the core summary here, Anderson, that everyone doctors, oh, they're debris, they're out -- there in the way of the President. If you look at the other areas, this is a pattern. The generals, they don't know what they're doing. They're pussies. Secretary of State Tillerson, oh, he's dumb as a rock. Oh, the intelligence people don't know what they're talking about. They're in Trump's way to execute what is often a spur of the moment impulse, something not thought through.
COOPER: Yes.
WOODWARD: Something where he's not talked to other people.
COOPER: We also have a part of a conversation you have with Jared Kushner on May 8th, I want to play that.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
KUSHNER: But I think that the difference between a really good outcome and a really bad outcome, you know, rests on two things. Number one is, is competent execution is on the medical front, and on the economic front, which I think we have the right teams in place to do.
And then number two is, is the psychology of the market, right. So if you basically say this is coming back in the fall, don't gear up, and people won't rehire, people will stay unemployed. And, if you're planning for the worst case scenario that will become a self fulfilling prophecy. One of the things that the President is great at is, he's a cheerleader. He's trying to make people feel good about the outcome.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COOPER: You know, Kushner did mention executing on medical and economic fronts, which, you know, is, I guess, nice to him to acknowledge that that's very important. But he didn't then move on to really the public relations front, and making people feel good about the outcome so that companies will, you know, will hire, will plan for a reopening.
And it talks again, about the president being a cheerleader, which is something the President says, I've never understood that. I mean, cheerleaders are great, but don't you kind of want a coach or like a quarterback or somebody who even knows how to run with the ball? Like, do you really want the -- is the cheerleader, the most important spot?
WOODWARD: But it's really not cheerleading, that's what Kushner's labeling it. But what he's saying there is, oh, let's not give people bad news, because then maybe they won't reopen. So, it's deception.
COOPER: Yes, (INAUDIBLE).
WOODWARD: It's not cheerleading. And as we know, when we have cheerleaders, sometimes they can spur people to make proper moves. And then other times, it's just, it's silly. And this isn't even that, this is outright deception. And the failure if you go back and put all of the 10 months together since Trump, on January 28th, was told the full ramifications of what was coming. And then to not take action, to not disclose to people until the truth. And I honestly think this gets to a point where there's a moral dimension to it.
COOPER: Well, I mean --
WOODWARD: It's a responsibility is just that --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: He's still doing it. I mean, he's still out there, holding these, you know, super spreader potential events, and saying that there's light at the end of the tunnel, we're rounding a turn, you know, the White House is saying, you know, they've beaten the pandemic. It's out -- I mean, it's giving people a false reality. It's just lies, and they're very dangerous lies, because he's also not encouraging mask wearing, he's not encouraging social distancing. I want to play something else that Kushner told you --
WOODWARD: Yes.
COOPER: -- on May 8th for our viewers.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
KUSHNER: Look, I really do believe that she's passed the competency test on the execution. I think that, you know, Kayleigh actually said a great thing to him in the Oval Office. You know, he said, look, you know, politically, do you think we were better off the other way, where things were humming or this way? And she says, you know, in some ways, it's better this way, because before people took for granted how great you were with the economy.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COOPER: I mean, wow. So at that point, 77 -- more than 77,000 Americans had lost -- had died. And Kushner tells you they had a conversation in the Oval Office and Kellyanne Conway's conclusion was, it's better this way because now --
WOODWARD: No, it's Kayleigh --
COOPER: Kayleigh McEnany.
[20:50:03]
WOODWARD: Yes, it's -- his referring. Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Yes, yes Kayleigh McEnany said it's better this way because people don't take you for granted on the economy anymore. I mean, that's stunning. WOODWARD: That is a Shakespearean tragedy unto itself. The idea that, would you -- you would say, let's embrace disaster. And, then you can come back from that, and people will appreciate you in some way they would not if we had not had this disaster. The first time I heard that, I thought, is that possible? Is that -- would the President asked that kind of question? How do I maneuver my way politically through this? And the answer is yes. And that the press secretary would give this kind of answer.
So, where this all comes together. We are on a collision course, with history right now. And as, you know, you've had the doctors on what the future for the next weeks and months is going to be even more of a calamity. And we have a leader, whether he is reelected or not, who's going to be in office until January according to the Constitution.
And what we've got months where there's no plan, there is no strategic vision of gee, how do we get out of this? I mean, here you have the White House Chief of Staff, saying over the weekend, we're not going to control the pandemic.
COOPER: Yes.
WOODWARD: It's as if we're in the middle of World War II and Franklin Roosevelt says, or his advisors say, well, gee, we're not going to try to control the Nazis.
COOPER: Yes. And then later on, of course, he tried to walk back and said, well, you know, we're going to try to contain it. But they're not trying to contain it. They're not trying to containing it is not just trying to get vaccines. It's not just getting therapeutic, it's social distancing, it's mask wearing, it's the president modeling that behavior and rally in the country to get behind the mask. And as a patriotic act.
Bob Woodward, we got to go I appreciate your time. As always, these clips are just fascinating. Thank you.
WOODWARD: Thank you.
COOPER: Thanks for being with us.
You heard from john king earlier in the program. There's a lot of focus right now centered on Michigan of course, not only is it a critical state for both President Trump and Joe Biden, they're still ongoing concerned about that alleged plot to kidnap the state's governor Gretchen Whitmer. Today the State's Attorney General filed an emergency appeal over judge's ruling that struck down a directive to ban the open carry of firearms at polling places on Election Day.
So said a lot, Governor Whitmer joins me now. Governor Whitmer. Thanks for being with us.
I want to ask you, first of all about just some of what we just heard from these tapes of Jared Kushner talking to Bob Woodward, and really the height of the pandemic, back in March and April. He said, quote, with testing now, what he's been saying to us is don't fall into the same trap that we fell into the first time the states have to own the testing, the federal government should not own the testing.
Essentially, Kushner and the President, the White House decided to push testing onto the states because it's messy, you know, it can go wrong. It's a trap for the Trump administration, but take away from the governor's reopening so that the President gets credit.
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): Well, running the United States in the middle of a global pandemic isn't for everyone. And that's precisely why we need a change in the White House. That's why I'm so enthusiastic about Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.
The fact of the matter is, I got right in the middle of all of this when I observed early on that there was no national strategy. States were in the early days being pitted against one another just to obtain those n95 masks that all of our frontline workers need.
Here we are eight months later, and there is still no national strategy. COVID numbers are increasing. The pain that we're feeling economically is worse than it could have been or should have been. Had the White House ever had a national strategy and they ever leveled with the American people. Have they ever challenged us to rally to this, to beat this virus? The virus is the enemy. They've all they've spent their energy on is turning the American people on one another. And we deserve and desperately need better.
COOPER: The fact that they are still holding these super spreader potential super spreader rallies. You know, the President's whole team has gotten infected, the Vice President's team has gotten infected. And now they -- but nevertheless, that hasn't stopped them either. They're just continuing to hold these rallies in your state and other states and states that are seeing, you know, big rises in cases and deaths.
[20:55:03]
WHITMER: You know, you would think that an administration that has succumbed to the very virus that is killing people across our nation and depriving us of jobs and economic opportunity would take this more seriously. We have a little bit of empathy. I thought, perhaps, with the passing of Herman Cain, maybe they would understand the incredible heartache that is playing out across this country --
COOPER: Oh they blew through that very quickly, they didn't -- but they hardly react into that.
WHITMER: They sure did. I've lost a number of people to COVID-19. Is a devastating, cruel illness, that is still a very real threat all across the country. Our numbers are rising, and their events are contributing to spread. We have done contact tracing, we've seen that care, you know, bear out with people show up and they're packed in and they don't wear masks, and they are, you know, screaming and shouting. That's how COVID-19 spreads.
COOPER: Yes.
WHITMER: They're contributing to the crisis that's ravaging this country.
COOPER: We only have about two minutes left. But I want to ask you just two things. I'll just throw them out at you and one is the yesterday the President at a rally in your state last night set said about the alleged plot to kidnap you, quote, maybe it was a problem.
Maybe it wasn't. I don't know if you want to respond to that. Also, are you concerned about Election Day? You know, the court had said, people can bring weapons, I guess, around polling stations. I think you're going to be appealing that but are you concerned?
WHITMER: So, we are working incredibly hard to make sure that we get every vote counted. And we may not have a count on election night. And I want to warn everyone in the media. But that's a very real possibility because we are seeing an incredible turnout. But we are going to keep people safe. And we're going to ensure that every vote gets counted and Michigan reports an accurate count.
The first part of your question, I mean, the for the Trump administration, for the President himself and his surrogates to come into the state. And to incite and encourage anyone who is a domestic terrorist or has ideas of hurting their fellow Americans is cruel, and it is unusual and it is not normal. Words matter and we all deserve better as a nation.
COOPER: Governor Whitmer, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.
WHITMER: Thank you.
COOPER: Now, a breaking news not tied to politics. Hurricane Zeta has made landfall in Louisiana as a strong Cat 2 storm. CNN's Amara Walker joins us now from New Orleans with the latest.
It looks kind of calm there. What's it like? What's it been like now today?
AMARA WALKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's at the height of the storm it was pretty bad. Right now, it's pretty calm as you stay -- as you say we've been experiencing the occasional tropical storm force wind gusts. But at the worst of Zeta, Anderson, the wind gusts were clocking in at 110 miles per hour strong enough to snap trees like this here behind me in half.
We've seen reports across Southeast Louisiana, where there have been a lot of large trees that have come down, including power lines, and debris strewn all over streets and the neighborhood. This was expected to be a wind driven event. And that's exactly what it was. And hence, we've seen widespread power outages over 400,000 people were being told or without power in the state of Louisiana, and Mississippi right now, Anderson.
COOPER: Yes. You still have a lot of people in New Orleans who are from other parts of Louisiana who got who had to leave their homes and they're staying in hotels because of other storms.
WALKER: Yes. I was actually struck by just walking around here this afternoon, Anderson. Every other person that we approach told me, yes, I'm an evacuee from Lake Charles or from Southwest Louisiana. A lot of them telling me that they were hit very hard by Hurricane Laura and Delta. These are two hurricanes that hit 13 miles and six weeks apart.
And a lot of these evacuees, about 3,500 of them have been scattered into hotels around New Orleans. And they, too, were writing out the storm here goes without saying that, you know, they're very storm weary. They say that they're sick of what they seen in this unprecedented season. Hurricanes Zeta, has become the fifth named storm to hit Louisiana. That is a state record.
COOPER: Just about 30 seconds left. So what's the forecast for the rest of the night into tomorrow?
WALKER: Well, like I said it was a very fast-moving storm. So, the winds from Hurricane Zeta were told to move out of here by midnight tonight and tomorrow the forecast looks sunny and nice.
COOPER: All right.
WALKER: Anderson.
COOPER: Amara Walker. Appreciate it. Thanks very much.
Before we go, there's this just in from Johns Hopkins. They're now been 76,271 new COVID cases reported just today, 972 deaths reported just today.
The news continues, want to hand over Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME". Chris.
[21:00:00]
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: All right, thank you very much, everybody. I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.
Tonight, we have "Anonymous." His name is Miles Taylor.
