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Biden To Florida: "You Hold The Key. If Florida Goes Blue, It's Over"; Court Rules Ballots Must Be Received By Election Day In MN; Biden Holds Nationwide Advantage In Final Days Of 2020 Race. Aired 9- 10p ET

Aired October 29, 2020 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[21:00:00]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Chris?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Thank you, Anderson. I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.

Look, here's the simple fact. Today is the worst day of cases we have had in this pandemic. Period! More than 85,000 infections recorded just today all across this country. And the reality is it is likely to get much worse. That's it. There is no debate on the reality. We have had more pain today than ever. Period!

A new key model projects, death rates may triple by mid-January. And the reason they're able to say that is the same reason we had the most cases today, and the same reason things are going the wrong way. We are not rounding the corner in our awareness and in the steps that we can take in communities where it matters.

The White House Office is lying when they say they ended the pandemic. Trump knows it. The President of the United States is lying to you. But more importantly, he's putting you in position to get sick.

This election has come down to this proposition. The former VP Biden is all-in on getting us through this pandemic. He's all about plans.

And if he wins, this election will be a vote of so many of you making a simple call. We have to do better. We have to do more to fight the pandemic, to get our kids in school, to get our businesses back, to get our lives back.

His message is take reality with the pandemic as reality. That's why he's been hesitant, out on the hustings, because it's a weird mixed message. If you bring people into a group, where they can get exposed, how are you about recognizing the pandemic?

That's why his crowds look like this in Florida today. You got a masked-up, they're distanced. Some are sitting in their cars. This is a new era, right? I mean, we know, rallies are not a good thing. So, it's like the era of the drive-in rally.

Now, Trump is literally sur-reality. It is surreal. If he wins, it is a figurative middle finger to math, and to COVID, and acceptance of the "Is what it is" recklessness, as this virus continues to wreck us.

Trump keeps telling people, especially older, more vulnerable people, in Florida, to come out for him to rallies, because things are getting better in Florida. Here are the facts. Leave the map up. It's the third day in a row of more than 4,000 new cases.

And again, this state does not have a great track record of telling the truth about its numbers. Look at the CDC reports about their reporting of deaths and the thousands of lives that may have been lost and not recorded.

They are going dangerously backwards, a month after reopening, because they did it in rushed fashion. They are not rounding the corner. Period! Do you see white or yellow on the map except borders?

So, the President's crowds are in full "Get-sick" mode. They are mainly maskless. They are jammed in together, as this President tells them what Biden, no doctor, no scientist, worth their salt, nor any of the maybe millions of us still struggling with long-haul symptoms, and hundreds of thousands of you, who have lost loved ones, what none of you would ever tell them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's rounding the turn. It's rounding the turn.

(AUDIENCE CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: Hey, excuse me? I'm sure you didn't hear. Nobody heard this, right? I had it. Did you know that?

(AUDIENCE SHOUTING YES!)

TRUMP: You know the bottom line though? You're going to get better. You're going to get better. If I can get better, anybody can get better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: No, no, no, not true. Let me tell you, when he got sick, sure smelled like panic in that White House. Didn't it? He got flown to a hospital for two experimental treatments with round-the-clock care.

You know who didn't get better? The nearly 1,000 of us who died from COVID yesterday, and almost every day, to go with close to a quarter of million souls lost in this country.

Look, vote your conscience. Vote for Biden. Vote for Trump. As long as it's fair, and they're counted, works for me. But please, don't see defying masks as a way of showing support for Trump. Don't get yourself sick to show a sign of support.

And look, the same people who want to come after me for going for runs without a mask - and look, that's fair, that's fair. I don't wear the mask? People should call me out on it. I'm OK with that. [21:05:00]

But the same people are neglecting to tell you that this President is putting you in jeopardy. That's the true hypocrisy. That is the danger in this. Don't make yourself sick to make a point. Please!

Now, why are both candidates in Florida? Now, I don't think it's going to be the key state in this. But it will be a massive show of strength for the winner. If Biden wins Florida, this could be a short night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Right here in Florida, it's up to you. You hold the key. If Florida goes Blue, it's over. It's over.

(AUDIENCE CHEERS)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Maybe! And, to be sure, Biden wants it. But Trump needs Florida to have a viable path to 270 electoral votes.

And again, will this election come down to a simple temperature check, as simple as a thermometer, for way too many people in this country? Good people and families are being fooled into a sense of ease, and it is a mistake. Will it be the deciding factor?

Let's discuss. David Gregory and Dr. Sanjay Gupta join me now. Thank you very much.

On the "Don't make yourself sick, to make a point" score, Sanjay, what do we know about the people who are going to these rallies for the President? He said "Nobody gets sick. We've never had a problem." He said that in the debate. Is it true?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well no, I mean, we do have some clear evidence that there've been people, who have become infected, as a result of these rallies, the cause and effect, which is hard to do when you have over 80,000 people becoming infected every day. Just too many people, I mean it'd be a whole sector of our society to be contact tracing.

CUOMO: So, how do you know?

GUPTA: So, what we did was, we decided to look at these counties, 17 rallies in these counties, and basically looked at what happened in the four weeks before, and the four weeks after these rallies, and then compare it Chris, to the counties around those counties in the same state.

Not surprising, the numbers are going up everywhere, right? We already knew that. But what we found was 82 percent of the time cases went up, in the County, right after the President's visit, within a few weeks after the President's visit. And, half the time, it was out of proportion as compared to the rest of the state. So, numbers are going up, yes. But they're going up more so in those

places, not surprisingly, where people are aggregating together, in these big sort of events. So, the virus is spreading, Chris.

And we even took it one step further and said, "Look, if you start to have several hundred people gathering together, in most places in the country, right now, you got a 95 percent to 99 percent chance that you're going to encounter the virus. You're going to be exposed. Doesn't mean you'll get infected, necessarily, but the virus is attending those events, along with everyone else that's there."

CUOMO: David Gregory had the virus. He beat it. He beat it quickly. Thank god. It's good to have you back, because I need your mind.

Help me understand the messaging on this pandemic. Trump says "You vote for Biden, he's going to close down the economy again." Biden says, "No, I won't. I'll listen to the scientists."

What if the scientists tell him to shut things down again? People are afraid of the pandemic, but they're also afraid of shutting things down again. How do you walk this line? What is the right line?

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well I think the right line is tell the truth, and prepare the country for what's ahead, and for what we're going through.

So, I don't understand the President who can say something that's not true, which is "We're rounding the corner," which everybody can see is not the truth in their communities, at the same time, successfully raise the fears of people who think that there's a shutdown mentality that another politician is going to have that's going to have an impact on every one.

I mean the reality is if there is a change of leadership, if Biden becomes the president-elect, it's kind of like the Financial Crisis in 2008, going into 2009. It's a hell of a problem for a new president to face. And that reality is going to be hard.

But the data point that Sanjay is just talking about, I talked a little while ago, to a good friend, in the Chicago area, who runs a hospital system, in suburban Chicago, and it's kind of like Sanjay is talking about the gatherings, at these rallies.

Well what they are seeing in suburban Chicago, where it's colder here, in the fall, more and more people who are getting hospitalized, hospitalization's up double in the past seven days, is because more and more people are congregating inside, right?

We've been talking about the outdoor rallies. People have the fatigue. People don't have good facts, and they're getting together, and they're getting infected.

And even pre-op COVID testing, they're finding, in these hospital systems are up dramatically from less than 1 percent, for four months straight, now 4 percent, 5 percent, 6 percent positivity rates that they are seeing. That's the reality today that you're seeing at least one data point in the Chicago area.

CUOMO: I'm coming right back to you, Sanjay. But one bounce question to you, David.

[21:10:00]

So, we know that more Republicans are expected, as a percentage, to come out, on Election Day, than early voting. But the context, we've had four of our five deadliest days, most case days in the last week. So, this is coming to a head right as the election is coming to a head.

How big a deal is early voting in the context of people living this reality, and having a chance to vote each day, and also worried about going out on Election Day, because it's getting worse everywhere?

GREGORY: Right. And look at Florida. Right now, Biden is doing particularly well among older voters, who are the more vulnerable voters, right, in terms of getting the virus. So, are you going to see voters, who are reluctant to come out on Election Day?

Now there, I'm thinking about Republicans, who are - we think are more likely to vote on Election Day.

If they're diehard Trump supporters, are they still going to come out? They're going to be motivated? Or you're going to see long lines, in your polling place, and decide, "You know, maybe I won't do it. I don't feel comfortable doing this." That, to me, is a big question.

It's why there's been an emphasis on early voting. We've seen Republicans catching up in some areas of early voting. But there's been a big emphasis on the part of the President, and other allies, saying, "No, we got to win it on the turnout of Election Day."

CUOMO: Now look, I want people to know, and we have Harry, the Wizard of Odds, coming on later, to Show, there has been contraction in the polls, OK? And you may like it, you may not, but you need to know it. It's the reality.

And even on early voting, we've seen a contraction in the polls, where the Republicans are catching up, to the Democratic advantage in early polls, Florida, North Carolina, Nevada and Iowa, so we'll be watching that. This is far from over.

Now, Sanjay, the pandemic is far from over also. Here is what is alarming to me, unless you have better information.

Even though everything is getting worse with the metrics, I get no information that the Administration is saying, "Look, we got to ramp this up, right now, because after the election, we have to be able to announce X, that we're going into a new phase of fighting this thing."

I hear no word of that. Everybody is told "Stand down."

GUPTA: Yes, I mean, look, if the - if the message is that we're heading in the right direction, turning the corner, then it makes it much harder to reconcile that we need an aggressive plan at the same time. We do need an aggressive plan.

And it's interesting because everyone always asks about "Are we going to have to shut down again?" At some point, that may not be our decision. And when I say "Our decision," I mean human beings' decision.

I mean the virus is really going to control that decision, in part, because if hospitals start to become overwhelmed, then the hospital administrators are going to be calling the mayors, and the governors, and saying, "Hey look, time out! We've got no space anymore. You've got to do what's called sort of a circuit breaker shutdown."

It may not be a necessarily a full-on shutdown, but we've got to actually break the cycle of transmission in these areas where the virus is spreading too much, which is many, many places around the country, as you know.

And David, just to punctuate what David was saying, if we can show this graphic of the positivity rates, you talk about positivity rates, that means you test 100 people, how many of them come back positive. You'd like that number to be below 3. If we have the graphic I can show you.

But, right now, in South Dakota--

CUOMO: There it is.

GUPTA: --look at this, 46 percent. Can you - it's hard to even believe Idaho, 35 percent. I mean Wisconsin, even at the bottom, 27 percent. What that means is there's a lot of people out there, who have the virus and don't know it. They're not being tested. And, as a result, they don't know it.

GREGORY: Right.

GUPTA: And they are continuing to spread, and that's driving the surge. If--

CUOMO: Now, the President says, Sanjay, "That's just because we test too much."

GUPTA: No, it means we're not testing enough. The positivity rate, if it's high, that means you're not testing enough.

You're a fisherman, Chris. It's like putting your net down. If you get one fish, you think, yes, there's not that many other fish out here. You put your net down, you catch 10 fish, you think this place must be crawling with fish.

High positivity rate means you're crawling with fish down there. And a lot of them, they're not being caught, they're not being tested, in this case, if you extend the metaphor, we don't know it. But it means, this five times, 10 times maybe, as many people out there with the virus that aren't getting tested, and we're not testing enough.

CUOMO: Go ahead, David. GREGORY: Hey, can I just add, Chris?

CUOMO: Yes, please.

GREGORY: The Chicago data that I was just telling you about, it was pre-op COVID tests. Those are asymptomatic patients, like Sanjay is saying.

CUOMO: Yes, they didn't know.

GREGORY: And you're seeing those positivity rates go up.

And what are we hearing about, in battleground Florida, is that there's a move afoot to eliminate asymptomatic testing. I mean this goes to the point of what is the Administration preparing for, if there is a second term, to deal with the reality of what we're facing with the virus.

[21:15:00]

CUOMO: I mean, look, I was talking to somebody in Florida, who was complaining about her kids not feeling well, and she wanted to get them tested, in Logan County, in Florida, and she says "There's only one testing center available" because they shut them down, saying that things were going in the right direction. So, you don't even have as many testing centers.

Look, this could not be happening at a more important time. There is no avoiding the reality. The big question is will this election be about people's desire for more and better on this pandemic? It is not the slam dunk that logic would tell you it would be. So, we're going to have to watch it every day.

David Gregory, I can't tell you how good it is to have you back, and seeing you well, brother, honestly.

GREGORY: Yes.

CUOMO: And Dr. Sanjay Gupta, you are always a plus. Thank you, brother.

GUPTA: All right, thank you.

CUOMO: All right, now, this election does not come down to Florida, per se. It is a very important state, but with the attention on it, and all this attention into election law, and states getting screwed with, we have a special guest, who knows all too well what happens when an election is left to the courts.

Al Gore, tonight, you remember what he went through in 2000. Hanging chads! What does he see in the state of play in this election? What does he see about the state of science in this election? Key perspective, from a key player, next.

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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.

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[21:20:00]

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TEXT: BREAKING NEWS.

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CUOMO: All right, we have breaking news.

A federal appeals court, and that's a key phrase, federal appeals court, not a state court, just wiped out a one-week window for counting mail-in ballots in Minnesota, all right?

Context, 3.5 million registered voters in Minnesota, 1.8 million ballots requested by mail this year, almost half the number of voters. Days matter. This is a victory for the Trump campaign.

Think about that. Why is it a victory for Trump to give people fewer days to have their votes counted? That's what they wanted. That's what they got.

So, in Minnesota, the court ruled that ballots will only count if they are received by Election Day. This comes with ballots already in the mail, which people may have sent thinking they had up to 10 days after then. Now, they don't get there, by Tuesday, they don't get counted.

Does that sound legitimate? Senator from Minnesota, Amy Klobuchar says "No."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: ONE ON ONE.

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CUOMO: Good to see you. First, help me understand something that--

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: --maybe in the weeds, but matters here. Why is the federal court ruling when these are state law issues, because we saw that distinction in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, right?

Pennsylvania, they left it alone, because it was a state court reckoning the Constitution. In Wisconsin, they stepped in because they said, "No, a federal court can't decide state matters this way."

KLOBUCHAR: Well this is a strangest case of all, but I want us to get to the solution here. This was two electors that actually, two Republican electors that

brought the suit. There've been an agreement with the Republican Party and the Trump campaign about how to do this with the Secretary of State. They bring this to court.

It somehow goes up to the 8th Circuit, and on a 2-1 decision, with the Obama-appointed Judge dissenting, the 8th Circuit said, "Nope, even though you have been told this now for months, even though your ballots that you've got say that they can be postmarked, postmarked, by Election Day, they actually have to be received by Election Day."

So, here is our problem, Chris. There's over 500,000 ballots in people's hands. The ones that have been mailed in by now are probably just fine, right? But what I'm concerned though--

CUOMO: I don't know. Depends on when they were mailed in--

KLOBUCHAR: But this--

CUOMO: --and how the service is.

KLOBUCHAR: OK. OK. Service little better than average in Minnesota, but let's just - let's just look at what I really can do something about right now. And that is to ask the people in Minnesota, who's got those over 500,000 ballots, and that's over 500,000 people, no matter where they are right now, that they not mail them in, in the morning.

They're going to think they can. They're going to think they can do it right up to Election Day. But under this court ruling, right now, they can't. So, what they should do is take their mail-in ballot to a drop- off box or go vote themselves.

Minnesota has the highest voter turnout in the country, Chris, nearly every time. And so, they are used to voting in-person. They can do this.

CUOMO: So, if you have a mail-in ballot, let's say they're home, and they have the ballot, they say, "Well I can't vote in person. I just got this thing. I have this already. I can't vote in person." Can they?

KLOBUCHAR: They can. They can bring their - they can do it two ways, three ways really. They can bring their mail-in ballot to a drop-off box. They can find out where it is, at iwillvote.com.

CUOMO: Where?

KLOBUCHAR: The other way they can vote that they are very used to in Minnesota, highest voter turnout in the country, they can go vote early. Very easy to vote early in Minnesota over the next three days and--

CUOMO: Even if they have a mail-in ballot?

KLOBUCHAR: Yes.

CUOMO: OK.

KLOBUCHAR: They can go in there. They can tell them "Hey, I got one, but I'm not using it." They can't vote twice then the - despite what the President says.

Then the very last thing, the last way they can vote on is on Election Day that they're used to doing as well. We have safe voting in Minnesota.

So, as mad as I am, about this, at the last minute, as mad as I am that two Republican electors can go do this, and two Republican- appointed judges can go rule this way, I still believe we can make it through. Why?

One, Joe Biden is ahead in Minnesota, consistently, and he's doing so well here. I was just out in, the rural parts of our state, and there's so much support for him out there.

Number two, people in Minnesota, they're used to voting, and they didn't always vote by mail, so a lot of them have, 1.5 million. Their ballots are in. But what they can do now is just take those mail-in ballots, bring them to a drop-off box, or they can go to vote in- person.

[21:25:00]

CUOMO: What's the website?

KLOBUCHAR: And that's what we're telling them. So, anyone, by the way, any viewers outside of Minnesota, who know people in Minnesota, e-mail them, text them, call them, because this is one of the closest calls we've had yet in this election.

We have only a, five days left. And we just got this court ruling. And I refuse to let the Republican Party tell the people of my state that they have lost their right to vote. They can go and vote, and they must.

CUOMO: What's the website?

KLOBUCHAR: The website is iwillvote.com.

CUOMO: And that's where you find the drop-off box that's near you.

KLOBUCHAR: You can find it - or Minnesota Secretary of State, they have a website, anywhere. They can find them. We've got great clerks in Minnesota.

CUOMO: All right.

KLOBUCHAR: Democrat and Republican areas, they've got to go vote.

CUOMO: Any legal remedy?

KLOBUCHAR: That will be up to the Biden campaign. They're going to have to figure out, and the other campaigns in Minnesota, and the Democratic Party, what they're going to do.

But I think, for right now, we've got to just, you know, we can go to court, if people are just waiting on another court decision, from the Supreme Court, good luck on that.

I think it is much better, if we just send out the alert that people should go vote in person, or bring in their mail ballot to a drop-off box. A lot of people are doing that around the country any way. They're doing it all over.

And it's really true nationwide, at this point, where the mail service is slow in some places, the best way is if you can find a drop-off box to do it that way, because we're not going to let these guys get us down, not with the numbers we're seeing across the country.

Joe Biden is ahead in places like, doing so well, Georgia, Texas, it's unbelievable. So, I think a wave is coming our way because people are sick and tired of the way this President has mishandled the pandemic, the way he's trying to kick people off their health insurance.

They want something better. They want Joe Biden and Kamala Harris in the White House. So, these guys are trying to do anything to take that away from them.

CUOMO: Well this is a - this is a big win.

KLOBUCHAR: But I think the people of this country will stand above it.

CUOMO: This is a big win because they close a window that people expect it to be open, and very could.

KLOBUCHAR: It's very bad.

CUOMO: You and I, as lawyers, know that there's a rule that supposedly judges follow, which is equity abhors a forfeiture, which means--

KLOBUCHAR: Completely.

CUOMO: --fairness demands that people don't lose rights and abilities, so, Republicans, Democrats, in Minnesota. Clinton only won by a point and a half, in the last race. This is an important state. The rules have changed.

KLOBUCHAR: It is.

CUOMO: Go to iwillvote.com. Find out where you can drop off your mail- in ballot, Republican or Democrat--

KLOBUCHAR: Exactly.

CUOMO: --or you can bring it in your hand, and early vote, and just show it to them, say, "I got this. I'm not using it," or you can vote on Election Day. Republican, Democrat, vote.

KLOBUCHAR: You don't even - and Chris?

CUOMO: Yes?

KLOBUCHAR: Yes. You don't even have to bring it in, if you're going to vote in-person. You can just say, "Hey, I had that. I'm not going to use it."

CUOMO: So they need any proof?

KLOBUCHAR: "And I want to vote in person."

CUOMO: OK, great.

KLOBUCHAR: No. They just have to go and vote.

CUOMO: Senator, participation matters, Left, Right and reasonable, so we're happy to get the word out. Senator Klobuchar, thank you for joining us.

KLOBUCHAR: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: All right, now, well I switched up Al Gore and the Senator, why?

Because it's news that this Minnesota rule just changed, and it gives us even better context for our conversation with former VP Al Gore, former Senator from Tennessee, obviously, as well, and in 2000, the Democratic nominee, where the election was resolved, in court, when it came down to Florida.

What is his perspective about what's happening? What does he think about the state of play with science, because that's what the pandemic's about. The only way to believe science is to accept the reality. The only way to believe Trump is to reject science.

Al Gore, next.

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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.

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[21:30:00]

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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.

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CUOMO: A former VP and former Democratic nominee for president, who was a state way from becoming President of the United States, Al Gore, joins us now, it's good to see you, Sir, as always, to remind people of what happened in 2000 with this court case.

What happened was there were really two big points that matter for today. Obviously, the former VP knows all this.

But, for you, at home, who may not have been around, following it the way I was, and he was living it, the court stopped the Florida state Supreme Court from making a ruling about Florida law, about whether or not it could recount about 60,000 ballots that everyone agreed the counting machines had missed.

And it came down to two issues. One was equal protection, which was the state had all these different ways of doing manual recounts. The Supreme Court didn't like it.

So, the remedy that was prescribed by liberals on the court was "Let Florida, give it back to the Florida Supreme Court. Let them figure out their own uniform way of counting throughout the entire state." And they said, "No" 5-4 ruling, why? There's not enough time.

Now, here is the interesting part of the case that we need to remember for today. And I'm sorry to go back through this - this haunting tour, but you know it's instructive for people. So, Scalia, may he rest in peace, argued that you can't do this recount because it may put a cloud of legitimacy over President Bush forever.

And Justice Stevens, I'll never forget this, said, Justice John Paul Stevens wrote "Counting every legally cast vote cannot constitute irreparable harm." Now, those words are haunting given what we are seeing happen in Minnesota, probably not in Pennsylvania, but also in Wisconsin.

What's your take, Sir? And thank you for your patience, while I explained that.

AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT, FOUNDER OF THE CLIMATE REALITY PROJECT: Well it's - thank you very much for having me on your show, Chris.

These are tense days for our country, leading up to the election. And, of course, I strongly disagreed with the Supreme Court's decision 20 years ago.

[21:35:00]

But if you disagree with the court's decision, at least most Americans can agree with who makes the decision, and then our system, the Supreme Court interprets the laws. And there is no intermediate step between a final Supreme Court decision and violent revolution.

And of course, President Trump threatened to tear the country apart, and refused to peacefully accept the results of the election, if it doesn't go the way he wants. I think that should disqualify him in the minds of fair-minded people. Some will disagree.

But the other thing is, the Republican Party should listen to the reasonable voices in their Party, and stop trying to use the courts as a political instrument. It should not be used that way.

You know what? This President has appointed, has put forward 10 judges for the court - for the federal courts that were rated unqualified to be judges by the American Bar Association. They picked these young ideological warriors, and then the Republicans in the Senate have said, "Yes, Sir," and with most all of them have confirmed them.

So, if you're concerned about the way the courts take up some of these politically-charged cases, insist that they appoint qualified people, and that the senators in both parties vet them thoroughly.

CUOMO: Do you, in looking at what's happening with the voting deadlines litigation now, does it smack familiar to you of what the Democratic Party endured in 2000?

GORE: Well I think this election is likely to be very different, Chris. I'm knocking on wood here because I don't know what the result is going to be.

But I have a very strong feeling that the vast majority of Americans, including a significant percentage of Republicans, have watched and listened to Donald Trump, for four years, and have concluded that we need somebody better as president, somebody who does not say crazy things, all the time, someone who does not tell so many falsehoods that the newspapers and the news media can't even keep up with them anymore.

And I am hoping that the result on Tuesday, and the days following, even weeks following, if necessary, to count all the votes, I'm hoping that the total is going to be decisive. And I rather suspect that a majority of Americans feel the same way.

CUOMO: Science. If I were to argue - if I were to get into an argument with you right now about the fact that, "You know what? We're doing better with COVID than, you know, a lot of you guys want us to believe"--

GORE: Yes!

CUOMO: --I would absolutely wind up having to apologize on air, if not tonight, tomorrow night.

GORE: Yes. Yes.

CUOMO: And I may be off TV for a forced vacation because it would be - it would be reckless disregard of the truth.

And yet, the President packs rallies with people, who are often in vulnerable communities, and states, and personally check a lot of risk boxes, no mask, tightly together, and they believe him that we're rounding the corner.

What does that say about this election's impact on respect for science?

GORE: Yes. Well my faith tradition has the well-known teaching. "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free." We won't be free of this pandemic until we listen to the acknowledged truth. And we know enough to understand that these virologists and

epidemiologists, who've studied this field of science, for years and years, are far more qualified, than Donald Trump, to make decisions about it.

It's the same thing with the climate crisis, Chris, because the climate scientists have been warning us for so long that this human- caused global warming pollution is threatening the entire future of human civilization.

[21:40:00]

So, just as with the pandemic, we can either decide to act on the basis of the best available facts, and listen to the scientists, who obviously know what they are talking about, or we can succumb to the temptation to do whatever seems to be politically convenient in the short-term. The latter is what Donald Trump is doing, and it's a grave disservice to--

CUOMO: Right.

GORE: --our country and, most of all, to his supporters, who he has duped into getting themselves in a very dangerous situation.

As Sanjay Gupta has told you, they traced the spread of the pandemic, after these maskless, reckless rallies, it really is an astonishing performance by the President, and so disrespectful and reckless, disrespectful to his own supporters.

CUOMO: As the Head of "The Climate Reality Project," this is a big part of moral responsibility that you guys argue all the time is that the absence of leadership here is going to cost people lives and livelihoods, going forward.

Isn't that so much more acutely true, right now, with the pandemic?

I don't understand how the President can't be responsible for hundreds of thousands of people getting sick, in his own communities, of followers, who are recklessly disregarding the accuracy of messaging in a show of support for him.

GORE: Yes, I don't understand it either. Many analysts have used the word "Cult" and the phrase "Cult-like." There is so much of a temptation on the part of some of his supporters to want to believe everything he says, and it's tragic that he's letting them down, so completely, and so utterly.

A president of the United States has to care about the whole country, has to make the best decisions possible, and not just look for personal benefit, or a personal angle, or personal profit, in dealing with the issues that come into the Oval Office.

And that's what Donald Trump has done. It's wrong. I think most people understand that it's wrong. I have lots of Republican friends, who have been shaking their heads, and saying, "Look, it can't be soon enough that we get this guy out of there." CUOMO: Well, look, I mean the polls are tightening. This is a very divided country. This is going to be every minute, up through Election Day, and probably into the day past it.

What is your biggest fear? Pandemic doesn't go away. Biden wins. Trump wins. We still have pandemic. What is your big fear about what happens if the President wins with respect to the pandemic and, by extension, dealing with other scientific urgencies like global climate change?

GORE: Well, to take the last part of your question first, we're in an extraordinarily hopeful time, Chris because China, Japan, South Korea, and the European Union have all, just in the last few weeks, made major historic new commitments to much faster reductions in global warming pollution.

The stage is set for the United States of America, under a new president, hopefully, to come back in as the natural leader of the global community, and really take this climate crisis, under control, and start making the changes that can create millions of jobs, and deal with this threat, to the future of humanity.

The same thing is true with the pandemic, if we have a president, who will listen to the scientists, and listen to the doctors, and not play politics with it.

But to directly answer your question, I do not have fear. I have so much confidence in the American people, having seen and heard what they have seen and heard, for four years, I have confidence that they're going to make an overwhelming judgment.

I hope and pray I'm not wrong about that, but I feel confident in it, because I'm confident in the American people.

CUOMO: Former Vice President, former presidential nominee, former Senator and now, the Founder of "The Climate Reality Project," always welcome on this show, thank you for the insight, thank you for the gift of it to my audience. God bless you and the family.

GORE: Thank you, Chris, and to you and yours.

CUOMO: Thank you, Sir.

And look, this rounding the corner thing is not about political rhetoric, OK? And again, again, this is costing you guys your wellness and, in some cases, your lives.

The pandemic is not going to go away, no matter who wins this election. It's going be about plans and people doing the right things. I own when I don't do the right thing. This president has to as well.

And I'll tell you what? Joe Biden said that he wants to put together a Commission to find out what happened with those 545 kids, and their parents, on the border, I'll tell you a Commission that should happen before that.

[21:45:00] If he is fortune enough to get enough of your votes, to become President of the United States, he should put together a Commission to find out what happened with the pass-through of legitimate scientific information from the people who had it, to this President, and why it didn't get to you, because it is literally making us sick, and literally killing us.

We have a president who will not acknowledge what he knows to be true because he believes it's better for him, even if you get sick. Left, Right and reasonable, vote for Trump, that's fine. Do not make yourself sick just to make a political point.

What do we see in polls? What do we see in the road to 270? Am I right or wrong about Florida? Is it a want for Biden but a must for Trump, or is it really a must for both of them? The Wiz will tell us, next.

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CUOMO: Five days out, we can count on one hand now, this is the key moment. Where do things stand?

Nationally, you will see polls, putting Joe Biden up 12 points over Trump, pretty consistently. Strong lead, but, back in 2016, Hillary Clinton also had a strong lead. She was up to 9 points ahead, on a lot of polls, all right?

Now, given how that went, should Democrats really take comfort in any numbers this time around? You know who hates that suggestion? The guy who lives, and dies, by the numbers, the Wizard of Odds, Harry Enten.

But I give you a chance to defend your craft. Why should we feel any differently this time than people did in assessing the election in 2016?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER & ANALYST: Well first off, I'm glad that you can count up to five. I wasn't quite sure. But you just did it. So there you go.

CUOMO: I said you can count on one hand. I didn't say I could count on one hand. Go ahead.

ENTEN: Well, whatever! Just take a look at this electoral map. I think it gets right to the point here.

CUOMO: Go ahead.

ENTEN: Let's take a look at the polling averages, OK, and let's - and each of the state, and then let's say that the polling averages are as wrong as they were, in 2016, what would be the result? Well the result would be that Joe Biden would still win in the Electoral College with 335 electoral votes.

Now, obviously, the polls could be more wrong than they were in 2016, but even if you take that discount in, of the polls being as wrong as they were in 2016, Joe Biden is still a clear favorite in the contest that matters that is the contest for 270 electoral votes.

CUOMO: Before you answer the rest of the question, about why it's different than with Clinton, Florida, I say "Biden wants it. Trump needs it" that there is no viable realistic path for Trump without it there is with Biden.

Is that true, or is it really true that both of them need it, because Biden needs to stop Trump, and if he stops Trump in Florida, he stops him. Period!

ENTEN: I think those are two sides of the same coin, right? I mean Donald - if Donald Trump does not win the State of Florida, it's very, very difficult to draw an electoral map where he gets to 270 electoral votes.

But if Joe Biden loses the State of Florida, then he could still pull off wins in the Clinton-states, plus Pennsylvania, plus Michigan, plus Wisconsin, where he has 5-point leads or greater, in all three of those states, and that would get him to 278 electoral votes.

So yes, I agree with you 100 percent. Biden would love to have Florida. He would knock Trump out right away. But Trump really needs the Sunshine State.

CUOMO: OK. Now, why Biden isn't Clinton Part Two, why?

ENTEN: I mean just take a look at the favorable ratings, right?

Look, Hillary Clinton was not very well-liked heading into the 2016 election. Our final CNN poll, her favorable rating was 46 percent among likely voters. Her unfavorable rating was above 50 percent.

Look at our latest CNN poll. What do you see? Joe Biden's favorable rating is 55 percent, a majority, and this is a key fact about the 2016 election. The reason Donald Trump won was because among the 18 percent of the electorate that had an unfavorable view of both he and Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump won that group by 17 points.

This year, all Joe Biden needs to do is win the voters who have a favorable view of him, and he will win this election.

CUOMO: All right, let's pop through two more points real quick.

First one is the polls aren't contracting necessarily, we'll look at Florida in a second, but the percentage of people participating by early voting, we are seeing Republicans catch-up, right? Take us through that.

ENTEN: Yes. I mean this is something that we are seeing is the people who are voting earlier, in a bunch of key states, Florida, North Carolina, Iowa and Nevada, earlier on, last week, you saw that the Democrats had a larger registration lead than they do now. They are still leading in that.

But Chris, I do want to jump to that fourth slide because--

CUOMO: Go ahead.

ENTEN: --I think it's so important to point out. This is not surprising to me. It's not surprising. Just look at this latest Quinnipiac poll from Florida.

What you see is the vote-by-mail overwhelmingly, Biden, what we've seen in the last week, in that state, as more people have voted early in person that has closed the gap between the Democrats and Republicans amongst the early voters.

But that was to be expected. The Trump voters are going to come out strong to vote in-person. The Democrats are much more likely to vote by mail. But the polls take that into account, and the polling right now in Florida, although it is close, gives a slight advantage to Joe Biden.

CUOMO: Harry Enten, well-done, well-argued, and thank you.

ENTEN: Thank you, my friend.

CUOMO: The Wizard of Odds!

Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back.

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CUOMO: Now, one quick note, and then I'm going to pass off to the big star, here at CNN, D. Lemon.

I really want you to think, out there, if you are a Trump supporter or not, this pandemic is not going away, no matter who wins this election, OK?

The idea that any of us are fighting with each other about the reality of the pandemic is literally just the worst thing we can be doing. I am fine admitting what I do when it's not right. This president is not.

If Donald Trump wins another term, as president, he has to change the way he thinks, and the way he speaks, and the way he acts, about this pandemic, or so many of us are going to be sick for such a long time.

The hypocrisy would be me not telling you this, is not just an act of journalism, but just good conscience, OK? Wear the mask and vote for Trump. Please, do not make yourself sick to make a point.

We are not rounding the corner. It is not going away. The spikes aren't gone. Those are all lies. Check any source you want. I know State TV is telling you something different. That's on their conscience. This is on mine.

If it matters to find out when I run a mask, wear a mask, when I run, it's more important to tell you that masks matters, and I'm going to do it, every chance I can, because everybody's conscience should be clear.

Trump, Biden, the pandemic wins either way unless we do something about it.

Thank you for watching. "CNN TONIGHT" with D. Lemon, starts right now.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST, CNN TONIGHT WITH DON LEMON: This is me, well, for the few times that I have run, since the pandemic. This is me.

CUOMO: I am not healthy enough--

LEMON: No, no, no, this, no this--

CUOMO: --to run with a mask on.

LEMON: --no, no, no--

CUOMO: I will faint.

LEMON: This is me, when I am by myself. I want to be honest. So, I'm running, and I usually run, along the road, where we live, and then someone gets close to me, and I do this, and then I take it down, and then I do this.

CUOMO: Look--

LEMON: But I try to - I try to do it as much as possible but--

CUOMO: --you are great with the mask. LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: I don't think I've ever seen you outside the place here without one. In fact, you come into my office, you have a mask.

LEMON: I know.