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Nearly 79,000 New Coronavirus Cases, Third Highest Day in Pandemic; Hospitals in Wisconsin Strained as Cases Skyrocket; Europe Takes Extreme Measures to Curb Spread of Virus. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired October 29, 2020 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: Of unrelenting, broad community spread in the Midwest, upper Midwest and west.

[07:00:06]

Cases are rising in 41 states. The entire map, practically, is orange and red.

And Dr. Anthony Fauci is now issuing this warning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: There's going to be a whole lot of pain in this country with regard to additional cases and hospitalizations and deaths. We are on a very difficult trajectory. We are going in the wrong direction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Dr. Fauci also says it could be 2022 before we see what he calls a return to normalcy in the United States.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN NEW DAY: So, the surging pandemic continues to dominate the campaign in its final days. Today, President Trump and Joe Biden hold competing rallies hours apart in Tampa, Florida. The president will also head to North Carolina. Former President Obama plans to join Joe Biden on stage for the first time at a rally Saturday in Michigan.

More than 75 million people have already cast their ballots. That is more than half of the total vote in 2016. And overnight, the Supreme Court issuing key rulings welcomed by Democrats on mail-in ballots in two critical swing states.

BERMAN: All right. Joining us now, CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta and CNN Political Analyst Maggie Haberman, she is a White House Correspondent for The New York Times.

I actually have the same basic question for both of you, although on different fronts. Basically, Sanjay, where are we this morning? We just heard Dr. Fauci speak in some of the bleakest terms I've heard. Where are we? DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, the numbers you just heard are clearly increasing and the pace at which they are increasing is also going up. So that's something we were talking about. We had more conversations about this back in March and April.

You want to follow several things. We've known the numbers have been going up for some time, but now we're starting to ask, is this going into sort of exponential growth, where the line, and we can show what's happening here, the line is going to start going straight up, because these cases start to build on each other, more and more people become infected, more and more people spread, and it's like a big boulder sort of rolling down a hill. So it becomes a problem.

The other thing we notice when we see these maps and we talk to health systems around the country, which I think is perhaps even a more important measure is, what is happening with hospitalizations right now. We do know the people who are getting -- more likely to become infected right now are under the age of 50, which is good in terms of hospitalizations, but still, hospitalizations are increasing. And some of these places, like we talked about the Midwest, in North Dakota, I mean, they have 20 or 30 ICU beds, mostly for the whole state. So they're already starting to look at regions.

So where are we? Numbers are going up. People are going into their sort of crisis planning modes here, I mean, in the surge capacity mode. Seeing what sort of space they can shore up right now for the inevitable incoming of more and more patients.

CAMEROTA: Maggie, behind the scenes in the White House, is there an acknowledgement that coronavirus is getting worse and at least in the Midwest, upper Midwest, it's out of control at the moment? And do they think this is affecting the election?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: They recognize that this is something that could affect the election, Alisyn, but not in the way you're thinking. They are not talking about it as, look, we recognize this is objective reality and therefore we should do things differently, like not swoop into states where the pandemic numbers are rising. They are looking at this as something that they can message and manage and contain for themselves, not contain medically.

And that's what we've seen all along. As you know, we have seen them treat this as if this is some kind of a political issue, that if they just message it correctly, then they can make clear to people that it's not really that big a deal. And one of the things we've seen, Alisyn, too, on the trail, the president has incorporated having had coronavirus himself into his speeches and basically treats it as, it's not that big a deal, because I had it, look at me. The president was treated with drugs that the average person simply cannot get and he was treated with the best medical care at Walter Reed.

So he is describing a reality that is not the same that most Americans are experiencing with this virus.

BERMAN: Right. It's just a stark difference to what the data is showing and to what people are feeling in many of these states, especially some of the swing states.

And, Sanjay, as he paints this rosy, false picture, the scientists, including Dr. Fauci, continue to talk about the reality of the situation in ways that I think thing, you know, it's hard to hear for a lot of people. Dr. Fauci just yesterday was talking about, even with all the progress with vaccines and therapeutics, listen to the timeline he gives for normalcy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAUCI: If we get a vaccination campaign and by the second or third quarter of 2021, we have vaccinated a substantial portion of the people, I think it will be easily by the end of 2021 and perhaps even into next year before we start having some semblances of normality.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[07:05:06]

BERMAN: That's a long time from now, Sanjay, for semblances of normalcy.

GUPTA: Well, look, it's interesting, because I think when you listen to what Dr. Fauci has said and others have said in totality, it is sort of this belief now that we've abandoned the idea of the basic public health practices and what they could have done, what they could still do for us going forward.

I mean, we are a society clearly in this country and where we think, you know, we are going to wait for the home run. We're going to wait for the vaccine and we're not even going to try to hit singles or doubles along the way. I mean, that's the society. We're the quick fix, shortcut society, right?

But those other things do work. And I know it sounds almost silly in the context of this flashy vaccine that looms on the horizon, but I go back and look Arizona. And I bring out Arizona because Arizona was in trouble. We're going back to post -- sort of post-pause period, where they opened things back up. This is the beginning of June. And what happened there? The cases shot up 150 percent, 151 percent. That's that exponential growth.

But it's that second line that I think is the most important and maybe inspiring in that, you know, they got into trouble, and then they said, by middle of July, they said, we're going to do these things. We're going to put in a mask mandate for a period of time, we're going to limit large public events and we're going to close certain businesses, mostly bars. And what happened? A 75 percent decrease in new cases.

If we could even stall the trajectory of this growth right now, just stall it, not even after that 75 percent decrease, that would be such a significant, significant move. That would rapidly accelerate that timetable towards normalcy, but we're not doing it.

And so what Dr. Fauci is saying, look, it's become clear to me that we won't even do the very basic things, so if you're asking about the vaccine alone, yes, that's going to take a while, 2021, end of the year, maybe even the year after that.

CAMEROTA: And the White House won't do it, Maggie, by design. And it's always interesting to hear what they say publicly versus what they say in their own words, in their own voice, privately, which we are now privy to, courtesy of Bob Woodward's audiotapes.

And so this time, we get to hear Jared Kushner and the strategy that was just purely a political strategy, not a medical strategy, which is, we're going to move away. This was in April, okay? April. Remember back to where the country was in April, trying to get their arms around what was happening. We're going to move away from the pain and the panic and we're going to make President Trump the comeback president.

And so here is what Jared Kushner said about the doctors versus the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JARED KUSHNER, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR ADVISER: The last thing was kind of doing the guidelines, which was interesting. And that, in my mind, was almost like -- you know, it was almost like Trump getting the country back from the doctors, right, in the sense that what he now did was he's going to own the open up.

There were three phases. There was the panic phase, the pain phase and then the comeback phase. That doesn't mean there's not still a lot of pain and there won't be pain for a while, but that basically we've now put out rules to get back to work. Trump is now back in charge. It's not the doctors. We have like a negotiated settlement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: What does have even mean, Maggie? A negotiated settlement with the doctors?

HABERMAN: I mean, he's speaking like a New York real estate scion as opposed to somebody working on a public health crisis, basically that they had worked out some agreement where they were both in favor of these guidelines that had been come up with both meeting the doctors and the president.

But, look, as you and I both remember, what happened around that time, this call was around April 18th, I believe, what was happening around that time was that they issued guidelines that the president was repeatedly rallying against. They put out guidelines and the president would say, liberate X, Y, Z state on Twitter.

And, essentially, Jared Kushner makes clear in that statement, the president is not going to own the pain, he is not going to own a part where the virus was spreading. He's just going to own the comeback part.

And this is very consistent, candidly, with what we did know that they were doing at the time, which was trying to turn towards a critical reopening strategy. They believe that there would be public support for their position. There never was majority public support for minimizing the virus. But that is what they had chosen to do the entire year.

Remember, Jared Kushner also said at one point that the country would be really rocking by July. That also has not happened. And the virus is not going to respond to any of the usual tools in this White House's kit.

BERMAN: If you're counting, and I think the American people are, when Jared Kushner bragged about the situation taking back the situation from the doctors, that was 187,000 deaths ago.

And it's largely the same message you heard from Jared Kushner to what the president is saying on the campaign trail right now.

I want to play what Joe Biden is saying, Maggie, because it's an interesting contrast, and I want your take on it.

[07:10:03]

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I'm not running the false promise of being able to end this pandemic by flipping a switch. But what I can promise you is this. We will start on day one doing the right things. We'll let science drive our decisions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: What did you hear there? Is it an element of, yes, trying to win an election, which is a few days ago, but also a statement that might be important after the election?

HABERMAN: Look, I think that's right, John. You have two very different messages from these men about the virus in the final days. Joe Biden is saying, I will be guided by the scientists and President Trump is saying, it's not really there. What you're seeing, everybody in the media just wants to talk about COVID, COVID, COVID, and they'll stop on November 4th. That is obviously not true.

President Trump has also completely mischaracterized what Joe Biden said. He said, Joe Biden wants to lock the whole country down. That's not what Joe Biden has said. But what Joe Biden has said is he wants to listen to what the doctors prescribe. And as we have seen over the course of many months, in escalating terms, President Trump has been very critical of medical professionals and public health experts who don't agree with his rosy assessment.

And I think that that is going to be, should Joe Biden become president, he's clearly aware that dealing with the pandemic is going to be -- and the economic fallout from it are going to be the two things that he is dealing with. And he is trying to deal with it without hyperbole, the way the president is.

CAMEROTA: Sanjay, President Trump also said something interesting. He said, if you vote for Joe Biden, there'll be no Thanksgiving, no Christmas, there'll be no 4th of July. Guess what? There's already not going to be a Thanksgiving. There probably won't be a Christmas. Nobody can predict what's going to happen on 4th of July. I mean, I'm not even talking about the politics of this, Sanjay. I'm talking about the timeline.

What is he thinking? We're already canceling these things.

GUPTA: Yes. I mean, we already are. And, you know, I use this metaphor, as you know, Alisyn, quite a bit of thinking of the country as a patient, a single patient. Early on in this disease course, the therapy to try and treat this infection would have been a lot easier. Earlier disease, catch it early, treat it early, you don't have to do as much.

As the patient in this case, the country, has become sicker and the disease, the infection, has become more widespread, it's going to be -- you're going to need more aggressive treatments ultimately to treat it and it's going to take longer.

So you're right. I mean, first of all, Vice President Biden is right. You can't flip a switch at this point. We never could flip a switch, but especially now if you think about how widespread this infection has become, it's just going to take some time.

The other thing I will say with regard to lockdowns, which is not probably the right term, but this idea that you may need these sort of circuit breaker sort of stops in some of these places where the virus is just spreading so rapidly that hospitals are going to become overwhelmed.

And we keep thinking this is our decision. We're going to shut down or not shut down. That may not be our decision after a while. We just simply cannot take care of patients. The only way to rapidly stop the transmission of this virus, to make it less likely for the virus to find a home, to stop being such hospitable hosts to this virus is to really separate ourselves for a period of time. And how do we do that? We may need to pause things in some places for a bit of time again.

BERMAN: Sanjay, hold that thought. I want to talk about that a little more as we discuss what's going on in Europe and what it means here in the United States, maybe a glimpse a few weeks into our own future. So, hold that thought. Maggie, as always, thank you so much for being with us.

CAMEROTA: So, Wisconsin has become the epicenter of the 2020 race and the coronavirus pandemic. And the mayor of Milwaukee is going to join us next to tell us about strict new measures starting today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:15:00] BERMAN: This morning, the White House coronavirus task force is warning of unrelenting, broad community spread in the Midwest and west. One of their biggest concerns, the state of Wisconsin, a state that, once again, smashed its single-day record for new cases and deaths. The average weekly positivity rate there is a staggering 28 percent. Hospitals beginning to feel the strain with ICU beds nearly at capacity in some parts of the state. A new health order goes into effect today in Milwaukee, imposing new restrictions.

And joining me now is the Mayor of Milwaukee, Tom Barrett. Mr. Mayor, thanks so much for being back with us. You say the situation in your city is worse than it has ever been. How so?

MAYOR TOM BARRETT (D-MILWAUKEE, WI): Without a doubt it's worse than it's ever been. Because over the past two months, we've seen a 450 percent increase in the number of our cases if you look at a seven-day average. The hospitalizations have more than doubled in the last month. You pointed out the positivity rate, hovering 27, 28 percent for the state of Wisconsin.

As the governor described it earlier this week, the situation is dire, So it's a very serious situation in Wisconsin right now.

BERMAN: What are you going to do about it?

BARRETT: Well, here in Milwaukee, we've now updated our order. We have a local order. And that's one of the big issues that we're facing here in the state of Wisconsin. Because Governor Evers has executed orders, emergency orders, but the legislature, rather than working with the governor, has chosen to take the route to litigate rather than to legislate. And they have gone to the Supreme Court, which has acted as an adjunct to the state Republican legislature, struck down the stay-at-home mandate.

Just yesterday, they accepted the case that challenges the mask mandate. And they're also looking at other challenges, at the reduction in capacity for restaurants. So we have a situation where the legislature has essentially done nothing, nothing at all, since the early spring. And we've got this situation that is clearly out of control right now in the state of Wisconsin.

BERMAN: What can you in Milwaukee itself though in terms of bars, restaurants, public --

[07:20:00]

BARRETT: Well, what we've done is we've lowered the capacity to 25 percent. We also have a plan, though, in place, which I call a qualitative approach. If we have the social distancing, if we have the masks, if we have, in essence, the six feet separation, bars and restaurants are allowed to continue to operate, but they have to have their plans approved by the city of Milwaukee.

And we have approved a number of plans, a significant number of plans, because we do see some operators that are working with us. It's those that are not working with us that are causing the problems, we believe.

BERMAN: How are your hospitals? What's capacity like in the ICUs?

BARRETT: ICU capacities, as you noted in your lead-in, are getting near capacity in the state of Wisconsin. And over the past week, for the first time, we've accepted patients at our alternative care facility. This is a facility we built earlier this year, hoping that it would serve only as an insurance policy and we would never have to use it. There are now approximately six patients in that alternative care facility.

Our concern is particularly in the Fox River Valley, in the northeastern and northern part of the states, we are seeing huge, huge numbers and that we're going to have more patients. But that's why it was built. We wanted to have that capacity there.

But, clearly, politics has just permeated this in a way that I think has made it very, very difficult for us to deal with this. We have mixed messages coming where the legislative leads, the Republican legislative leaders are saying, well, these mask mandates should be local or that we don't want them and they filed a brief in support of the lawsuit trying to strike down the mask orders. And so at a time when we needed to take politics out of this, they have decided that that was the route they wanted to take, and I think it's having dire consequences.

BERMAN: You did an installation, an art installation in Milwaukee. You set up I think it was 600 empty chairs, this was Tuesday on the green. Why did you do that? What message -- I think we have pictures of it somewhere. What message did you want to send with this?

BARRETT: Throughout the past seven months, one of the things that we haven't been able to do as a community or many times even as families is to grieve. We've all seen the pictures of the funerals that have to be canceled. I can't tell you the number of times that I look at the obituaries that say, because of COVID-19, a celebration of someone's life will be held at a later time.

And I think that people, as part of the grieving process, have to recognize that we have to step back and say, we have to grieve for the people we've lost, because I think they get lost in the numbers. And I think those empty chairs were a very stark, sobering, and appropriate reminder we're dealing with here, not just in Milwaukee or Wisconsin, but throughout this nation.

BERMAN: There are six days left to cast your votes in the 2020 election. Tuesday is the deadline to get your ballots in. You are a Democrat. You are supporting Joe Biden. You are also a resident of the state of Wisconsin, which was such a key state in 2016. And you've pushing Biden and the Biden campaign to come back to Wisconsin. Well, it's on the schedule, but why do you think the visit is so important?

BARRETT: Well, first of all, I'm very, very pleased that he's coming back. I think it's very important that he come back. And I think here in Wisconsin, after 2016, when we didn't have Hillary Clinton come here, I think that that left a mark. And, clearly, Wisconsin is the ultimate purple state. And what I've said repeatedly to everybody is, nobody should be taking this state for granted. And this will be his third visit to the state of Wisconsin in the general election, so he clearly is not taking Wisconsin it for granted, and that's an important message to send to the people of the state.

BERMAN: I know you're an optimistic man, Mayor. We had you on a couple of weeks ago. The pandemic has become worse since then. If we have you on two weeks from now, where do you think it will be?

BARRETT: Well, I hope that it turns around. And I think we can have a policy based on hope. We have to continue to end this incredibly crazy debate over masks and social distancing. Because I think that our economy, I think you saw the stock market this week, I think it was hit very, very hard because of these mixed messages. We have to have, as a nation, a unified message.

Think of World War II, think of savings bonds and how everybody got behind the cause. That's what we need in this country and I hope we can have that within the next two weeks.

BERMAN: Mayor Tom Barrett, I wish you the best of luck. Again, let us know how we can help. I know your city and state are in a tough situation right now, so, thank you.

BARRETT: Great. Thank you very much.

BERMAN: Where is the country headed? Well, we might need to look to Europe right now to get a sense of where the U.S. will be in a couple of weeks. And, frankly, the situation in Europe is bad. And they are instituting major new measures to fight the pandemic. We have correspondents stationed in several countries and then we'll talk to Dr. Sanjay Gupta about what it means for us.

[07:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: This morning, coronavirus cases are surging across Europe. And countries are taking extreme measures, including new rounds of lockdowns in France and Germany. We have our correspondents around the world.

So let's begin with CNN's Cyril Vanier. He is live for us in Paris. What's happening, Cyril?

CYRIL VANIER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, the government is instituting the strictest restrictions on everyday life that it has since March, April, May, the peak of the first wave. So starting tomorrow, everybody, when they leave their house, everybody in this country is going to need an authorization to actually leave their house.

[07:30:07]

Social gatherings are going to be forbidden.