Return to Transcripts main page
Erin Burnett Outfront
In Final Frenzy, Trump & Biden Hit Battlegrounds As U.S. Braces For First Results 24 Hours Away; Interview With Lt. Gov. John Fetterman (D-PA); A Federal Judge Refuses To Throw Out 127,000 Votes In Texas; Trump About To Hold WI Rally As He Baselessly Casts Doubt On Voting Process; Trump Suggests He May Fire Fauci; Interview With Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer (D) On Election and Pandemic. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired November 02, 2020 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Every vote counts. This is a democracy.
I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM. Thanks very much for watching.
"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, this is it. We are hours away from Election Day. Trump and Biden vying for every last vote. You right now on your screen see pictures of Trump in Traverse City, Michigan, campaigning into the night tonight.
The nation on edge. The President predicting a silent majority will help him win another four years in the White House. Is there something to that?
And a major setback for Republicans tonight, a federal judge refusing to throw out 127,000 votes in Texas. Former Texas Congressman Beto O'Rourke is my guest. Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, the final frenzy. We are down to the final hours of an election like we've never before seen in this country. In just 24 hours, polls will be closing in several battleground states. It'll be our first early glimpse of where this historic race could be headed.
And now this is it, the candidates, their running mates, their surrogates are fanned out right now across this nation. A country that is on edge tonight and both sides are so incredibly nervous, making their final push to get people to the polls.
Joe Biden is about to hold a second event tonight in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. President Trump is speaking in Traverse City, Michigan. That is his third stop of the day.
And it is an extraordinary moment in history. Nearly 100 million Americans have already voted, a record. And now it all comes down to turn out tomorrow. We could be looking when you look at a percentage of our population, the greatest turnout of all time or the greatest in the 150 some odd years. It is a pretty incredible thing we are witnessing happening in this country.
M.J. Lee is with Joe Biden tonight. And I want to go to you, M.J., in Pittsburgh. What is Biden's closing message in these final hours?
M.J. LEE, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, Joe Biden has been campaigning all day here in western Pennsylvania and tomorrow he will be in Scranton and Philadelphia, so just a critical, critical state. And we are seeing him, of course, pull out all the stops.
We saw just earlier Lady Gaga making a surprise appearance on a college campus with the former Vice President and we are about to see her perform at a drive-in rally in Pittsburgh. And as for his closing message, he is bringing it all back here, Scranton, Pennsylvania, his birthplace talking about his working-class roots and talking about people who he says cares about kindness, cares about decency. This is all, of course, an attempt to draw that contrast between himself and President Trump, who he is describing as being somebody who is out of touch who is divisive.
And we heard Biden say earlier today, Wall Street did not build this country, working class people did. So very, very clear what kinds of people he is trying to get out to vote for him heading into tomorrow. And I should note, of course, that the pandemic was, of course, top of mind for the former Vice President, talking about how the President has not had a plan to deal with this pandemic and how he would handle things differently.
And a very dark warning, we are hearing, from Biden basically saying unless the President drastically changes course, many more Americans will die under his watch, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Two starkly different messages on the pandemic right now and we're going to be going to the Trump campaign in just a moment. I'm just having a little technical difficulties there on the ground, but we'll go there to our Kaitlan Collins in just a moment.
I want to go now, though, to the magic wall where Phil Mattingly is tonight. So Phil, the candidates - I mean, we saw that, right? You have six boxes on the screen, they, their wives, they're everywhere, they're out, trying to get every single last vote. When you look at where they chose to go today, what do their stops tell you about how they see their pathway to 270 electoral votes?
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Erin, the beauty of these final days of the campaign is it's pretty clear what they're looking at and what the data might be telling each campaign. Where they're going is where they need votes and where they're going over the course of this day, President Trump hitting Wisconsin, hitting Michigan, hitting Pennsylvania, hitting North Carolina.
The Biden campaign over the course of the last couple of days fanning out across Pennsylvania. And the reason why is pretty simple, I'm showing you the 2016 map right now. And while the Trump campaign feels like perhaps they can dig into some Democratic territory in the state of Nevada. For the most part, they are trying to defend and replicate to the best degree they can what they did back in 2016, so let's go to that map and show pathways.
If the Biden campaign wants to win and the easiest pathway to win is rebuild the blue wall. It's win the State of Pennsylvania, it's win the State of Michigan, it's win the State of Wisconsin. Look at that over 270 electoral votes. Where was President Trump over the course of this day, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania.
The big question now becomes what happens if President Trump is able to reclaim one of those blue-wall states he was able to take away from Democrats back in 2016.
[19:05:04]
That's where you see the Biden campaign talk about other options they have that perhaps the Clinton campaign didn't back in 2016. So say Donald Trump wins Pennsylvania again, Joe Biden all of a sudden drops below.
Now say Donald Trump wins in Wisconsin again, where his campaign feels like they're picking up momentum right now. This is where the other key kind of Southeastern and Sunbelt states come into play for the Biden campaign.
All of a sudden, they're looking at North Carolina that gets him close at Georgia in there and all of a sudden you're back over to 70. What if he loses North Carolina?
Well, some combination of Georgia and Arizona gets him over 270. I think the bottom line that we've been talking about now, Erin, for several weeks is the Biden campaign feels like they have several options. There's no doubt, their clearest option, rebuild the blue wall. They feel like they have other opportunities.
If Donald Trump is able to run the perfect straight again up here, the real question right now is these states are more comfortable in terms of polling for the Biden campaign. These are pure toss-ups almost across the board.
BURNETT: It's pretty amazing though, Phil, and everybody is afraid of whether to trust the polling because of what happened last time. There's just this innate fear out there on both sides. But both campaigns know Pennsylvania is a must win.
Now, Pennsylvania, this could be over before we know the results in Pennsylvania, because it's going to take days to know them. But if it comes down to Pennsylvania, we're not going to know for a while and we know that campaigns have put so much in there, 28 trips to the state since late August between the two campaigns. That is more stops than any other single state.
So do we read something into that, that they see it possible that there is no clear direction to this thing for days and we're waiting on Pennsylvania?
MATTINGLY: I think if you talk to the Biden campaign, they still talk about having several different options. I think one key thing to remember, while we may not know the results of Pennsylvania on election night and we likely won't, we will have data, we will have things to look at. And we tell you what you want to look at, let's pull up 2016, again, because this underscores why President Trump was able to blow apart the blue wall.
And one thing to keep in mind as you go from Pennsylvania, kind of into the Midwest. The states have similar DNA, the states have similar demographics, so what happens in Pennsylvania will likely be a good tell for Michigan and Wisconsin too, not identical but similar.
And here's where you want to focus, look, Hillary Clinton back in 2016, contrary to some other states, did very well in the urban area of Pennsylvania and pushing out into the suburbs. She also did very well in Allegheny County in Pittsburgh. Based on those numbers, Democrats were looking around thinking, all right, Pennsylvania should be in the bag.
Here's why it wasn't. Come up to these counties in western Pennsylvania, where you see it's not a ton of vote up here. But every single one of these counties you flashback to 2012, 2,000, 3,000, 4,000 votes ahead of where Mitt Romney was back in 2012. That happened throughout the western part of the state. Turned out that people didn't even think was possible, Donald Trump turned it out.
You go down here in Westmoreland County, Donald Trump had almost his entire margin in this county just outside of Allegheny County. That is what the Trump campaign is looking for and we will be able to look at some of those counties as they come in and look at margins start to see where are things coming in, how do they compare back to 2016.
So if you're the Trump campaign, you're looking for blowout turnout out here again and you're also looking right here. You've seen the Biden campaign focus heavily on two real counties back in northeast Pennsylvania. You've seen him focus on Lackawanna, a county that Hillary Clinton won in 2016 narrowly, a traditional Democratic county that started to swing towards Republicans, we saw him focus on Luzerne, a county that President Obama won back in 2012 that President Trump just blew out of the water.
Now, Democrats don't necessarily believe Joe Biden is going to flip Luzerne back, but they believe he can take down the margins. And if you take down the margins in this state, in these counties where President Trump blew out turnout back in 2016, then all of a sudden doing what they did back in Philadelphia and the outskirts, doing what they did out in Allegheny back in 2016, that would be the recipe for victory, Erin.s
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Phil. So let's go now to the Lieutenant Governor of Pennsylvania, Democrat John Fetterman. So Lieutenant Governor, when you look at the numbers, 66 percent of the election votes, the pre-election votes so far in Pennsylvania, we understand have come from Democrats. But Trump's victory in 2016 was only 44,000 votes very narrow and you just heard Phil highlighting the specific places it came from. Do you think the President could pull out a win again this time? LT. GOV. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): Well, I've said this time and time
again, both on interviews and on my personal social media, that you would never want to make the mistake of under estimating the popularity of the President. The picture from his rally in Butler just a few days ago was enormous.
And I don't believe a campaign that can put together a rally of that magnitude in 12 to 18 hours having a 7 percent chance of carrying our state. I think it's much more competitive and I say to people don't take my word for it, where are both campaigns spending their last final hours and it's in our state. So they clearly can afford whatever polling that they want and I think they know that it's competitive.
[19:10:00]
BURNETT: So this morning, your Secretary of State said 2.4 million mail-in ballots have been returned in the state. Your Attorney General last night told me that 3.1 million were mailed out. So do you think that 700,000 are in the mail somewhere? I mean, this is the best huge number and, again, I want to put it in the context of the 44,000-vote margin that Trump won the state by in 2016. So would you have any sense of those ballots where they are, what's up with them right now?
FETTERMAN: Well, one of the things where I am concerned about and I was speaking about this over a month ago, was this idea that the Republican side wants to foment chaos and create doubts in Democrats mind that they should use their mail-in ballot or they can trust it. And they might say, I want to vote in person, and that would, unfortunately, jam up the lines and if they don't bring the entirety of their package, then they would be forced to use a provisional ballot and that's a much more complicated time consuming process in an era where the lines are going to already be record length. So that's the one area there that I am concerned about.
So right now, you have 24-hour drop off for ballots in certain counties where the density is high. So we're going to know much more, but as of right now, there's roughly, I would assume, at least 500,000 ballots that are going to be outstanding by now.
BURNETT: Right, which as you say some - so then you're assuming a couple hundred thousand will go to dropboxes, that's a half a million more people that could be in the line tomorrow is what you're worried about or not voting.
FETTERMAN: Yes. There's two lanes for those ballots at this point. They don't get used or they end up in the garbage or they end up in the lines and that could cause a problem. Obviously, we'd like to have seen a hundred percent turn rate. But I think we're going to come short on that, but my hope is that will at least reach 90 percent. But even at 90 percent, you're still talking roughly 300,000.
BURNETT: Well, and again I compare that to the 44,000-vote margin last time. You're still at what six times plus, the margin by which Trump won. So just so people understand why every single vote is so crucial here.
FETTERMAN: Yes. Absolutely.
BURNETT: So the Secretary of State in your state is telling county boards of elections to count mail-in ballots that arrive up to three days after Election Day. That was your law. If you post-mark it before or on Election Day, it accounts for three days after. So you know that went to the ...
FETTERMAN: That was the Pennsylvania Supreme Court decision.
BURNETT: Right. Yes. So that was your state Supreme Court decision.
FETTERMAN: (Inaudible) ...
BURNETT: So the U.S. Supreme Court has declined to take it on for now, Amy Coney Barrett wasn't a part of that. She said she had no chance to read in on it. There is an open question as to whether the U.S. Supreme Court could revisit that case. I know you all have agreed to segregate those votes, but there is then the possibility if this goes to the Supreme Court that those hundreds of thousands of votes that come in after election day that by your current law are valid could become invalid, correct?
FETTERMAN: Theoretically, but I don't expect that the number would be that high necessarily. I think you're going to see anyone that's retained those balance, interest and intensity is unparalleled. I feel good questions from folks saying that they were going to get on a plane to fly to vote in-person.
So I mean, my feeling is that these folks, these outstanding ballots aren't going to mail them in at this point. They're going to either deliver them tonight at the 24-hour locations or they are going to vote in-person, which as we talked about could lead to excessively long lines and waits for sure.
BURNETT: Well, of course, we'll all going to avidly be waiting eagerly here to hear what those numbers are people turning them in tomorrow. I appreciate your time, Lieutenant Governor. You obviously have a crucial story here to tell over the next few days.
FETTERMAN: Thank you so much.
BURNETT: And next former President Obama tearing into President Trump over his comments about race.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He talks about black employment. He says he's the best president for black folks since Abe Lincoln. Really.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Plus, Trump heading to Michigan tonight. A state with average in coronavirus cases are up 200 percent from a month ago, that is a tripling and yet the President now threatening to fire Dr. Anthony Fauci. The Governor of Michigan response tonight. And President Trump counting on a huge turnout, extraordinary turnout.
Will he get it? An expert who has studied and knows voter turnout that is his entire expertise in and out will be OUTFRONT toniht.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:18:14]
BURNETT: And these are live pictures, Michigan. President Trump just wrapping up a rally in the crucial swing state with just hours to go before the formal Election Day. His next stop tonight, because there is still yet another stop is a rally in Kenosha. A city at the center of unrest and calls for racial justice this summer after the police shooting of Jacob Blake. The 29-year-old African-American man shot seven times in the back.
Kaitlan Collins is live from Kenosha, Wisconsin. And Kaitlan, what is the President's closing message tonight?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, what we've seen from the President on the last several campaign rallies that he's been holding this last minute push is basically laying the groundwork to challenge the outcome of the results tomorrow, if they are not in his favor. You've seen these four stops in five states, that's what he's got on his plan for today and tomorrow he'll be at the White House watching the results come in.
But in all of these stops, the President keeps bringing up the way that votes are going to be counted given that there are so many mail- in ballots this year and basically saying, as he did in Pennsylvania earlier today, that the longer they have to count these ballots, that is in the President's mind, the longer they have to cheat. That is the word he was using earlier today and even issuing warnings to the Governor of Pennsylvania saying they're going to be watching them to see if they're cheating.
And of course, Pennsylvania is the one state that the President has been so focused on as Phil was just laying out there, how important it is to the President, but also because of the Supreme Court ruling about how many days they have to count those mail-in ballots in the days following the election. So this is a closing message unlike you've ever seen from a candidate where the President is repeatedly trying to undermine the way that votes are going to be counted in this election and implying that if he does not win, something is wrong.
That has been the message he's taken to all of these campaigns stops. And of course, a lot of what the President is saying is without evidence. He is making baseless accusations about the way this election is going to be done.
[19:20:05]
And you've seen how the Biden campaign has replied saying that the President is not going to be declaring victory tomorrow night as these votes are still being counted. But it's this effort by the President, not only in the way he's speaking in rallies, but also by attorneys and by his advocates and his allies with the campaign in the courts as well to try to challenge the way that these votes are going to be done tomorrow night and how they're going to be counted in the days after.
And Erin, the President has been insisting that we must know what the vote is tomorrow night. Of course, that is never how it's worked. States have never given the official counts the actual night of the election. They often take time to count those ballots in the days afterward. And it's a little bit different this year, a lot different actually, because of the pandemic.
So that's what the President has been doing. He is preparing himself, if he doesn't like what's happening tomorrow.
BURNETT: All right. Kaitlan, thank you very much.
So I want to go to our Political Director, David Chalian, along with our Political Correspondent, Abby Phillip and the Host of CNN SMERCONISH, Michael Smerconish.
David, let me just start off here, because, we were just talking to the Lieutenant Governor of Pennsylvania. You have 700,000 ballots in just that state. There are other states where this happened that people have requested and have not yet been returned, so that's a lot of people, OK? And some of them may vote in-person and flood lines, and some of them may put them in the overnight boxes. Some of them, unfortunately, may not vote at all.
But the most important thing for people to understand is that every one of those votes should be counted. Every one of those votes should be counted, so for someone to imply that because it takes a long time to count them, that they are somehow invalid or fraudulent is hugely disturbing to the entire Democratic process.
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes. I mean, it's undermining. I mean, every vote should be counted if it is cast according to the rules and counted in time in the way that it's set up. And so in Pennsylvania, if the ballot is sent back by Election Day, the courts have said that they can receive those ballots and still count them up until three days after Election Day, that's within the governing rules of the election.
So counting them that way. There's nothing illegitimate about it. It's totally legitimate and to call it otherwise is to fundamentally undermine the very core of our democracy, a free and fair election.
BURNETT: And Abby, the President says that, using the word cheat, he's also - both campaigns, we talked about where they're spending their time, but it's where they're spending it and what they're saying. And tonight, the President, where Kaitlan is in Kenosha, the city that was the center of protests, unrest over the summer.
This is not a coincidence. This is not just, oh, he happens to be there. He has picked Kenosha very specifically to send a message to people who are going to vote for him. He's not trying to convince people with this. He's trying to get turnout. He's trying to get extraordinary turnout tomorrow and he's going to Kenosha on purpose to put out his lawn order message. That is clearly what his campaign thinks is the best use of his time right now.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They do. I'm not really entirely sure, frankly, why because it's a little late in the game to be returning to an old message that did not have staying power in the state of Wisconsin. The President tried the law and order message and in poll after poll in battleground state after battleground state voters have said that they actually give Joe Biden higher marks on law and order than Donald Trump.
So it is not a message that has worked out particularly well for the President in the long-term. But yes, the point of these rallies is obviously not to convince anybody, it's to just get these people out to the polls and the President's specialty is taking his roadshow, his campaign roadshow to the parts of these states where you've got smaller population centers, but people who are more favorably inclined toward him, so he can run up his margins as much as possible in those places. He's trying to pull votes out of the woodwork wherever he can find them.
And I'm sure that in the Kenosha area and in the surrounding areas, that is where he's going to find those votes. But ultimately it's not the law and order message right now that I think is really going to break through, especially in the State of Wisconsin where coronavirus is surging and that is the thing that is on the front pages every single day in that state.
BURNETT: Michael, it is interesting though, Abby making the point about him running up the ballot, running up the vote and you see that in where he campaigned in Georgia where he's gone in Pennsylvania. He's going to the counties where he can run up the vote. This is about turnout. This is not about winning people over for him right now. This is about getting out his passionate supporters.
The White House director though, a communications director today predicted a silent majority will get Trump elected. This whole hint that people won't be honest with pollsters that they don't want to be honest about their Trump's support, but they're going to vote for him anyway and Trump also echoed it today. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think we're going to win Wisconsin, because we have a lot of people that say we don't want to talk to you and then they go vote for Trump, right? The hidden voter or whatever they call it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:25:04]
BURNETT: How real do you think that is, Michael?
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN ANCHOR: Well, it'll take a lot of hidden voters to overcome the data that's out there that's all telling the same story in terms of what's going on in the battleground states, the national surveys as well. Of course, we don't elect by popular vote, we learned that in 2016.
But here's something I think, Erin, that we need to be reminded of, Election Day four years ago and the President wants to say we did it then, we can do it again. It was later. It was November 8th and everybody needs to remember, October 28, 11 days prior came that Comey letter that said to the Congress, I'm taking a look again at Secretary Clinton because of Anthony Weiner's laptop. There hasn't been that issue.
I mean, you can make the argument, many do, that that really swayed the outcome of that election. There's been no incident like that, that would cause voters to reevaluate where they stand.
BURNETT: Right. Certainly, there's been nothing that has shown that. What the polls have shown is incredible stability again and again.
SMERCONISH: Right.
BURNETT: And you saw one point in a poll move over a two-week period, so little movement.
I mean, David, President Obama referenced the Clinton's defeat while he was campaigning today in Georgia, a state that they're trying to flip. And he said that Georgia, in the Deep South could decide who wins the White House. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Things didn't work out the way we expected, because we weren't focused. Each one of us didn't do everything we needed to do. And so in this election, when I got a call and said, look, Georgia, could be the state. Georgia could be the place where we put this country back on track and not just because Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have the chance to win Georgia, but you've got the chance to flip to Senate seats. I said, well, I got to go. I got to come. I told Michelle, I'm sorry, baby. I got to go to Georgia. This is a big deal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So David, obviously, when it comes to President, you haven't seen Georgia go Democratic since 1992. Although in the final weeks of the Clinton campaign, they were talking about turning it obviously. Then things went very differently than they expected. Do they really believe they can flip Georgia this time?
CHALIAN: Well, remember what you saw in 2018 with the Stacey Abrams- Kemp race in the gubernatorial race. Listen, Georgia, not terribly unlike Arizona, let's say. This has been part of a sort of decade long Democratic project of looking at the demographic trends that are happening in the state that are favorable to Democrats. But now couple that with the acceleration we are seeing in the suburbs, going to the Democrats in the Trump era.
When you take the demographic trends and you take that just accelerated movement away from the President and his party in the suburbs that we've seen in the Trump era, that is what makes Georgia a potential target for the Democrats to try and flip. It may not happen this election. It may, it's a real toss up state, but this is not going away as a Democratic target in elections after tomorrow as well.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you all very much. And as we are in these final hours, vice president, the former Vice President Joe Biden is going to be at that podium in just a few moments in Pittsburgh, as the President is in Kenosha, Wisconsin. We are here in the dark hours of the night before Election Day. Nobody leaving any time on the table here.
So as we await that, next, Democrat seizing on Trump's remarks that he might fire Dr. Fauci.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: They want to fire the one person who could actually help them contain the pandemic.
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Elect me and I'm going to hire Dr. Fauci.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And early voting in Texas in 2020 has surpassed the entire total turnout for 2016. So what does that mean? Beto O'Rourke is OUTFRONT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:33:25]
BURNETT: President Trump has two more rallies left on this frenzied final day of the election. Two more rallies left, and it is 7:33 Eastern Time. He's already held three today.
The president getting ready to hold another rally in Wisconsin and then another in Michigan. That is where he will also be facing the pandemic head on because Michigan is one of 35 states right now with cases heading in the wrong direction as the coronavirus surges across this country.
The seven-day average of new cases topping 80,000 for the first time since the start of the pandemic. Hospitalizations up more than 50 percent from this time a month ago. Hospitalizations.
And as we follow these deeply concerning numbers, the president is suggesting that one of the things that he would do if he wins re- election is to fire the nation's top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROWD YELLING "FIRE FAUCI")
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Don't tell anybody, but let me wait till a little bit after the election. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Joe Biden and former President Obama seizing on this, saying this on the campaign trail today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Elect me and I'm going to hire Dr. Fauci! I'm going to fire Donald Trump.
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: One of the few people in this administration who's been taking this seriously all along and what did he say? His second term plan is to fire that guy. I mean, they've already said they're not going to contain the pandemic. Now they want to fire the one person who could actually help them contain the pandemic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:35:05]
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, the Democratic Governor of Michigan, Gretchen Whitmer.
And, Governor Whitmer, I was obviously giving the troubling statistics we have from your state on hospitalizations, levels you have not seen since May, with the surge in cases.
Now, to be clear, Trump alone cannot fire Dr. Fauci. But you know, he could certainly put people in place who could if that was what his goal was. And his comment does come as you have an average of -- tripling of cases over a month ago. Hospitalizations, as I said, at levels you have not seen since early May.
So, when you hear the president of the United States suggest just give me a little bit of time after I win re-election to fire Dr. Fauci, what's your response?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): Erin, I'm not surprised. I mean, the only thing that surprises me is that he's saying it out loud.
I mean, this is an administration that has completely bungled the COVID response. The Trump virus response has made our nation a laughingstock. It has subjected so many to illness. And 230,000 have lost their lives. Tens of millions lost their jobs.
And we're posting the worst numbers we've had in the last eight months all across this country.
We need a national response. I know I made the president angry when I observed that back in March or April. I said there's no national response.
Here we are. Here we are eight months later, there's still not a national strategy. And we're paying for it with our economic toll. We're paying with it -- paying for it with the health crisis that we're all confronting.
BURNETT: So, here we are the night before the election. Major cities ready for potential unrest, right? There's been businesses across this country boarding up windows. The attorney general in your state says law enforcement will be near all polling locations to respond to any issues.
Do you view this as a case of just being extra careful? Or do you have specific reason to think that there could be, you know, looting, rioting? I mean, if they're boarding up all these businesses?
WHITMER: Well, we're being pragmatic. I can tell you from the state government perspective. We have run elections since the founding of this nation, and they -- we've never had people being terrorized at the polls like some are anticipating.
Now, we are prepared, but we do believe that we're going to be able to keep people safe, and that our voters should be able to the polls and know that they're going to be safe.
We take any effort to intimidate voters seriously. It's a felony in Michigan and it will be treated accordingly.
BURNETT: So, what's your sense -- as you know, we talk about states and how many ballots are still outstanding and when those are going to be tabulated? Where do you stand right now in Michigan? Do you think we will have a clear sense of the winner tomorrow evening?
WHITMER: Well, I think -- I've been telling everyone we've got to be patient. We've got to give our clerks the ability to get these ballots counted. And it's going to take a while. We've had -- we're going to have a historic number of ballots cast, so many of them through absentee ballot.
So they've turned them in. We've got 2.9 million ballots that have been cast already in Michigan. It's going to take a while to get them out of the envelopes and around through the machines.
And so, our secretary of state is saying let's all be patient, let's just make sure we let the system work. We're going to get everything counted and we will make sure that the will of the people is done. No matter what the will is, we'll get it counted, it will be reflected and it will be the vote of Michigan.
BURNETT: All right. Well, I appreciate your time, Governor Whitmer. Thank you very much.
WHITMER: Thank you.
BURNETT: And now I want to talk more about President Trump's rift with Dr. Fauci, bring in Dr. Jonathan Reiner who advised the White House medical team under President George W. Bush and currently at the cardiac cath lab at G.W.
So, Dr. Reiner, you know, we were talking about this last night. If Donald Trump wins re-election, you know, he doesn't have a re-election hanging over him or anything like that, right? And he's made his feelings clear about Dr. Fauci's scientific view of things, so why wouldn't he get rid of him? And now, he's suggesting he would get rid of him.
How detrimental would it be to lose Dr. Fauci in our pandemic response?
DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, it would be -- it would be awful. Those of us who work in health care have known for months that the singular issue in this presidential election campaign was going to be the pandemic.
And from the hundreds of thousands of families that have lost someone that they love to the economic losses generated by shuttered businesses and millions out of work, and to the uneven burden that my brothers and sisters in hospitals across the country have shouldered during this pandemic, basically no one has within left unaffected by this virus.
And the good news is tomorrow, the American people get to choose whether Tony Fauci gets fired or Donald Trump gets fired. Ultimately, the public makes that decision.
BURNETT: So Dr. Fauci told "The Washington Post" that President Trump called him when he was at Walter Reed Medical Center.
[19:40:03]
He called Dr. Fauci.
So, the president criticizes Fauci in front of his supporters. He calls him an idiot, actually, right? And when he got out of Walter Reed and he was better the first thing he did was whip off his mask for the world to see. But when he was in there in his moments of human fear like all would have, it doesn't matter who you are --
REINER: Yeah.
BURNETT: -- he called Dr. Fauci. What's that say?
REINER: Yeah, there's an old saying that there are no atheists in foxholes. So when the president of the United States was facing his own mortality, when he was, you know, worried he was going to become what he called a dire, he reached out to Dr. Anthony Fauci. He didn't call the Mr. Pillow Guy. He called Tony Fauci because no one in this country, maybe no one on this planet knows more about this virus and this pandemic than Tony Fauci.
So he was availing himself of the best of the best, the same expertise that he now threatens to fire, the same expertise that he sidelines from the American people, right? Good for the president, not good for the people.
BURNETT: All right. Dr. Reiner, thank you very much.
REINER: My pleasure. BURNETT: And singer John Legend on stage right now in Philadelphia as
we're watching these final live events here. This final night before election 2020. Kamala Harris is about to hold an election eve rally where John Legend is playing.
And next, a major ruling out of Texas. A federal judge rejecting Republicans' push to toss out 127,000 ballots. Republicans are now appealing.
Plus, it all will come down to turnout tomorrow, right? That is what we're at. How many voters could show up to the polls tomorrow? An expert on turnout with the numbers coming up.
We'll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:45:52]
BURNETT: Breaking news. Nearly 127,000 ballots in Texas's biggest county now hang in the balance. Republicans are appealing a major ruling by a federal court which said the ballots from drive-thru voting, which was a COVID precaution that allows voters to cast ballots from their cars, are valid.
Now, it is the second defeat for Republicans on these drive-thru ballots in Harris County, which is home to Houston.
OUTFRONT now, Beto O'Rourke, former Democratic presidential candidate and congressman from Texas.
So, Congressman O'Rourke, I appreciate your time.
So, let me ask you about this first, 127,000 votes. I mean, these are staggering numbers by any measure. Republicans appealing this ruling again. The judge anticipating this has ordered Harris county to preserve the ballots.
And so saying, quote, I would not vote in a drive-thru out of my concern, whether that's legal or not.
So, basically the count until who knows what happens in the legal system and then they might not count so they have to put them aside.
Would you recommend people cast more drive-thru ballots tomorrow?
BETO O'ROURKE (D), FORMER 2020 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There is no more drive-thru voting tomorrow. So this was something that the Harris County clerk Chris Hollins implemented with the blessing of the Texas secretary of state, who is a Republican appointee. The challenge to drive-thru voting has twice been rejected by the all-Republican Texas Supreme Court. And as you noted, it was rejected earlier today by a federal judge.
This is really an act of desperation as Republicans see Texans voting in record numbers. We lead the country in voter turnout, and we also lead the country in young voter turnout. And that's after being 50th in the country in voter turnout. Something is definitely happening in Texas.
And so, I don't think they'll be successful in invalidating those ballots. I think they seek to create chaos and confusion in the minds of the voters going into the polling places tomorrow. But so far, the Texas voter has shown they will overcome these cynical attempts to intimidate them and they will continue to vote in record numbers.
And that's very good for Texas and wonderful for our democracy. And I think it bodes well for Biden becoming the first Democratic nominee to win this state since 1976.
BURNETT: So let me ask you about this because as you say 50th in turnout. Nobody's really thought seriously. There's been talk maybe eventually Texas will be in play as it changes demographically. But, you know, Texas is Texas.
And yet you point out, 1.9 million more registered voters than in 2016. I mean, these are stunning numbers, 1.9 million people. What do you know about these people? Who are they?
O'ROURKE: So in a typical four-year period, about 700,000 will register. We almost tripled that in this last four-year period. Many of them are young. Many of them have moved to Texas from other states, updated their registration here. Our organization Powered by People helped register just under 200,000 Texans to vote this year. And we were specifically focused on those who were likely to vote for Democrats.
I think this explosion in registration that has been followed by the greatest turnout we've ever seen in this state bar none is very encouraging because we have the most onerous voter ID laws, 750 polling place closures, racial gerrymander and these new tactics, cynical, unconstitutional, and at their core racist, trying to stop primarily black and Latino voters from participating in the franchise.
And yet the Texas voter is willing to do whatever it takes to overcome that and cast your ballot.
So, I think the story of 2020 is going to be the Texas voter. I sure hope that's what we hear on tomorrow's -- you know, tomorrow night when we start to post the returns.
BURNETT: All right. So when you talk about black and Latino voters, Latinos make up 30 percent of Texas voters according to Pew, about 30 percent. But you know, there has been concern among Democrats that there's lower enthusiasm among Latinos, right? Biden consistently there showing lower polling results than Hillary Clinton had in 2016, right?
[19:50:02]
Trump has made progress with Latino men, you know, marginally apropos Mitt Romney with Latinos overall.
Do you share these concerns when it comes to Texas where this group of voters is so significant?
O'ROURKE: I cannot tell you, Erin, what it meant to Texas to have Senator Kamala Harris who could be the next vice president of the United States come to our state, and not only to Texas but come to the Rio Grande Valley, which is 95 percent of Mexican-Americans, very tough to get to, and frankly a part of a state that has been overlooked or forgotten, if it was ever known, by national Democrats for decades.
For the Biden/Harris campaign to make the RGV a priority, you saw it in actually the early voting turnout on Friday, it surged after it had been declining for days. So, it proves that campaigning and investment of time of the candidate in communities that have been suppressed or excluded from our democracy actually works.
You don't blame those communities for low voter turn-out. You engage with those communities and help them turnout. I think that's what we're seeing in Texas. And so, we're glad, it came late but it came nonetheless. We're glad that the Biden/Harris team made that in Texas. And I think it's going to pay dividends on Tuesday.
BURNETT: All right. We shall see. I appreciate your time, Congressman O'Rourke.
O'ROURKE: Thank you so much.
BURNETT: All right. And live pictures right now of Kenosha, Wisconsin, that is where Trump is about to hold his fourth rally of this day.
And Pittsburgh, on the other side of your screen, Biden holding a second event in that city today, all part of their final push tonight.
Plus, record breaking early voting across this country, nearly 100 million votes already cast. How many more are expected tomorrow? An expert on turn-out is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:55:51]
BURNETT: Live pictures of Joe Biden, his final rally of the day in Pittsburgh. You see Jill Biden there speaking, getting ready to introduce her husband. These are the last ditched efforts by each campaign on these final hours tonight. They are there as I said in Pittsburgh. You got John Legend also in Pennsylvania now opening out for Kamala Harris. President Trump in Kenosha, Wisconsin, everywhere, trying to do what they can to get the in-person turnout out.
And that is going to be crucial because almost 100 million Americans have already cast their ballots at an early or mail-in voting. That's already 73 percent. Three quarters of the total number of ballots casts in all of 2016 in all forms. We're already there. So, now, it comes down to who shows up tomorrow.
Michael McDonald is a voter turnout expert. He is professor of political science at the University of Florida. He also runs the U.S. Election Project website, and he joins me now.
So, Professor, you know, this is an incredible moment. And, you know, I personally feel so lucky to be here watching this, to be an American at this moment with so many people who are passionate more than they have ever been, certainly in my lifetime about voting at a presidential election.
So, you've got more than 100 million people already cast. What do you think the total vote count could be?
MICHAEL MCDONALD, PROFESSOR OF UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA, RUNS U.S. ELECTION PROJECT: Well, looking at the states that have already exceeded the 2016 turnout, places like Texas and Hawaii, other states are just on the cusp. They're going to do it tomorrow, even before they start the voting.
Yeah, it looks like we're going to have a record turnout. The big question is how much of that turnout is going to be on Election Day. I'm guessing and it's all guessing, when all is said and done, we're going to have about 116 million people voting in this election. That would be about two thirds of those eligible voters. The highest turnout rates since 1900.
So, you know, kudos for us in very trying times. We managed to hold an election and not just any election. We, quote, manage to hold a record-breaking election.
BURNETT: I mean, it is incredible, since 1900. And, of course, at that time there were a whole lot of people who were allowed to vote who could not vote then.
I mean, it is stunning to just think about it. And whatever the outcome is, that is something to celebrate. However, when you look at how this breaks down, 160 million, that would mean 60 million votes tomorrow, the president is betting on those votes being Republican, right?
He is betting on an all-time record. He's betting on an extraordinary Republican turnout for him to have a clean win. If you see 160 million ballots cast as you are projecting as possible, would that turnout be enough for Trump to win reelection?
MCDONALD: It's going to be tough. The early vote over the past couple of decades has looked very Democratic. And this election cycle -- we got there in a different way. Usually, it's Democrats voting early, Republicans voting by mail. It's all been flipped around in this election cycle.
But the electorate, the early electorate looks very similar in parts and character as it has in past elections, which is that Democrats have voted early. And since so many people voted early, so there's just a smaller pool of Election Day vote.
And Trump is going to need that Election Day vote to look very Republican. And it has in the past. So, he can do it, but he's got a smaller pool to fission to, so, he's got to somehow get that pool bigger. He's going to get -- even a higher I believe record turnout than that hundred 60 million. It's possible. It's just very difficult given where we are. We are already near records as it is.
BURNETT: Right, right. But you're saying 160 million may not do it. What do you think, what would be a number that you think would be more advantageous to him? Like 170 million? Does that get you there?
I mean, I'm not trying to pin you down. But just to get a feel.
MCDONALD: Right. Yeah, it's difficult to tell because we can already see a lot of votes get in some states, and I think a state like, say, Nevada might be out of reach for Trump at this point, but there are some other states where things are really close. Like Florida and North Carolina.
And he doesn't need as much juice in those states in order to get him over the top.
BURNETT: Yeah.
MCDONALD: So, you got -- we get into the trenches state by state. And some of the states like Michigan like we just were talking about earlier, that state could have a lot of Election Day votes. So, there still room for him to win the Electoral College with that Election Day vote when it gets down to the states.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Professor McDonald, I really appreciate your time. Thank you so very much.
And thanks to all of you for being with us in this historic night.
Anderson starts now.
