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CNN Live Event/Special
Race For The White House Narrows As Votes Are Counted; Federal Judge Unhappy With USPS. Aired 5:30-6a ET
Aired November 05, 2020 - 05:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[05:31:11]
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: We're watching the count and we're also continuing the conversation. We're back now with Andrew Yang, S.E. Cupp, and John Avlon.
Interesting conversation with Congresswoman Dingell.
ANDREW YANG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, (D) FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes.
LEMON: You heard what she said. She said Democrats don't do a good job of speaking to working-class people. What do you say to that? You're supposed to be fixing that.
YANG: I had that experience countless times on the trail, Don, where I would say hey, I'm running for president to a truck driver, retail worker, a waitress in a diner. And they would say what party? And I'd say Democrat and they would flinch like I'd said something really negative or I just -- like I'd turn another color or something like that.
And there's something deeply wrong when working-class Americans have that response to a major party that theoretically, is supposed to fighting for them.
So you have to ask yourself what has the Democratic Party been standing for in their minds. And in their minds, the Democratic Party, unfortunately, has taken on this role of the coastal, urban elites who are more concerned about policing various culture issues than improving their way of life --
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.
YANG: -- that has been declining for years.
And so, if you're in that situation -- this, to me, is a fundamental problem for the Democratic Party because they -- if they don't figure this out, then this polarization and division will get worse, not better.
LEMON: Is it real or messaging or both? YANG: It's real. I mean, Debbie just said they lost a plant that had 1,500 workers. And so if you are a laid-off worker from that plant and you look up and say what is the Democratic Party doing for me, it's unclear.
And we can talk about a unifying message from Joe Biden -- he's a naturally very unifying figure -- but then there's the reality on the ground where their way of life has been disintegrating for years. And if we don't address that then you're going to see a continued acceleration toward the institutional mistrust that animated the Trump vote and will continue to do so.
LEMON: And I've got a whole lot of questions for them. When we say the working-class people what are we really talking about because there are working-class people who -- when you talk about coastal elites?
I always take umbrage to that because I live in New York City and listen, I grew up and I was born in the red state and have lived in many red states. And I take offense sometimes because sometimes I think it means that when you're talking about working-class people you're talking about white people who live in red states or live in the Midwest.
AVLON: Yes.
LEMON: There are working-class people who live in New York City. There are working-class people who live in Chicago of all different ethnicities. And the Democratic Party may be looking out for them, but they are also part of the electorate and they deserve a party that's going to look after them as well.
AVLON: Look, it's one of the many reasons that the way we stereotype our politics dumbs everybody down. There are no red states and blue states, right? The real divides in politics historically have been urban and rural. Those divides may be real.
But it's like, you know, the idea that anyone's a real American. Everyone's a real American. And especially, when you stereotype the evangelical community to the quote-unquote working-class, it doesn't just mean white people.
And what I think the conversation that we need to have in the country -- and I think Joe Biden, if he wins, could be very well-positioned to lead this conversation.
If you just look back at like his 1988 presidential campaign, he was very focused on defending manufacturing. At that time, Japan seemed to be the big threat. But it's got to be speaking to people in Youngstown and Lordstown and Macomb County and saying you know what, Democrats --
LEMON: John, that's true, that's true, that's true. But working-class people who live in big cities often have it worse than working-class people who live in rural areas. It is a hell of a lot more expensive to be a --
AVLON: Yes.
LEMON: -- working-class person who lives in New York City and live in Chicago and live in Los Angeles.
AVLON: But --
LEMON: You have -- you often live in a small apartment, right --
AVLON: Yes.
LEMON: -- with a lot of people. And so, I just think it's really unfair to think of working-class people as only people who live in the Midwest.
YANG: The problem is the Democratic Party should be doing more for working-class people in big cities --
[05:35:00]
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.
YANG: -- in rural communities.
AVLON: That's the point. That's the point.
LEMON: Yes.
CUPP: And you saw this very conversation play out a lot during the Democratic primary. I interviewed candidates like Andrew. To your credit, you would talk about it.
Tim Ryan, of Ohio --
AVLON: Yes.
CUPP: -- Youngstown -- would say I want to speak to the people who shower after work, not before work.
There are -- there were great messaging -- there was great messaging we heard during the primary and not great messaging. And I think the better messaging won out in Joe Biden's message.
Although, you did see him kind of toggle back and forth, right -- struggle a bit with the Hyde Amendment, issues like defunding the police, abolishing ICE. Stuff like that that he knew, I think fundamentally, would alienate a lot of these working-class Democratic voters that we're talking about.
The question is, if Joe Biden is elected, who does he listen to? The far-left caucus --
LEMON: And -- but if he's elected, S.E., is that --
CUPP: -- or the people who elected him?
LEMON: Is that a failure for Democrats, so, if he's elected? I don't -- I don't know if he can follow the --
CUPP: No, not if -- no. His message clearly won. The lane he chose --
LEMON: But --
CUPP: -- will have won if he --
LEMON: -- also, I --
CUPP: -- is elected. It certainly won the primary.
LEMON: I want to question you on that, though because when you think about everything -- we're in the middle of a pandemic. We've had over -- more than 200,000 people dead. Millions of people have become infected by COVID. An economy that's terrible, unemployment.
CUPPS: Jobs loss, yes.
LEMON: All kinds of -- all kinds of things.
Is it really Joe Biden's message or the Democrats' message that won or is because -- or the circumstances that we're in right now that they said we have to choose the other thing? Because the messaging from Republicans about Democrats that's working is it's socialism. Somehow paying money so their kids can go to school and have -- and have an education --
YANG: Right.
LEMON: -- that's socialism. Being able to have roads that aren't broken and bridges that don't cave in, that that's socialism. Roads that everybody in the United States drive on, that that is somehow socialism.
It's not socialism. This is not socialism from Venezuela or a socialist country. But that message has been able to stick to Democrats, especially from Trump.
AVLON: Well look, Donald Trump blows up a lot of that. I mean, you had Republicans running against socialism when Barack Obama was president.
And you're absolutely right to point out that actually, the basic American social contract is not socialism. We invest in our collective security and strength and everybody benefits.
LEMON: Right.
The Bogeyman that's been created by the right-wing ecosystem is not that, however. Because Donald Trump spent more and raised deficits and debt more and it's worked out politically for Republicans and they haven't said boo about it.
It's about isolating cultural extremes and inflaming culture wars and making Democrats seem answerable to what some protester does when things turn violent or some college professor who has said some insane thing. And saying that you're responsible for that wing of the party as opposed to Republicans being on the hook for what the extremes in their party do, and they're in Congress.
CUPP: Well, I think you're right to point out that hypocrisy and intellectual inconsistency. However, it's not just pointing to the protesters to try and make the Democratic Party look like them. It's pointing to presidential candidates, like Bernie Sanders --
AVLON: Yes.
CUPP: -- and certain congresspersons who do talk about socialism affectionately.
Now, that's not the whole of the party and Republicans mischaracterize the party --
LEMON: But, Democratic socialism --
CUPP: -- often.
LEMON: -- what Bernie Sanders is. I think saying you're a socialist --
CUPP: It's not invented.
LEMON: It's not good messaging to say that you're -- to call yourself a Democratic socialist because then, people --
CUPP: Right.
LEMON: -- relate it to actual socialists.
CUPP: Well, sure -- yes.
LEMON: We've got to run.
CUPP: They believe him.
YANG: But the problem is that we're coding certain language to separate us into tribes. And I want to go back --
AVLON: Yes.
YANG: -- to what John said about Ohio. Ohio used to be the swing state and now it's trending red -- and you have to ask why. It's because their way of life has been heading in the wrong direction --
AVLON: Yes.
YANG: -- and we have not done enough about it.
CUPP: Yes.
AVLON: Yes.
LEMON: And more to come. We're going to talk more. We're awaiting a bunch of numbers to come in. We'll be right back. Don't go anywhere.
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[05:43:30]
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Two fifty-three to 213. That is the state of play within the Electoral College, OK?
We are a couple of moves away. It could be not right now but probably sometime today on Thursday or tomorrow, the states will bring in enough votes where people will start making projections. And that would be a pretty economical process by historic standards, especially when you look at the volume of votes that we've had to deal with.
You know, nobody's talking about the popular vote because it doesn't decide anything, but it does deliver a sense of mandate and reach within this country. And we may well see the most votes ever and the biggest stretch of win for somebody ever if things keep turning the same way, and that beneficiary would be Joe Biden.
So, as we continue our hunt, I'm here with the man, Phil Mattingly -- magic Phil and his wall here to find where the votes are that we're waiting for.
Pennsylvania. I just got a letter from the president. I'm one of his trusted supporters, you know, and I get --
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
CUOMO: -- e-mails from him on a regular basis.
MATTINGLY: Personal.
CUOMO: And it said breaking news, we won Pennsylvania. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact because his campaign manager says he did. So there you have it.
The rest of us are waiting for what we call data and we're looking for votes right now -- and in the current state of play, we have about 10 percent of the votes still outstanding. And what does that mean as a function of where they could be?
MATTINGLY: Let's topline it, first. You talk about there may be a couple of moves before things are actually decided, given the fact Joe Biden's at 253 electoral votes.
[05:45:02]
If Pennsylvania goes towards Joe Biden there's only one move. That's 20 electoral votes right here. That gets him to 273.
However, let's take a look at the margin right now. Donald Trump is leading in Pennsylvania by 164,000 votes. However --
CUOMO: The biggest margin in the mix.
MATTINGLY: The biggest margin in the mix. You go through all the five major states that are outstanding right now -- that are still too close to call -- this is the biggest one by far.
However, take a look at this. Take a look at what has happened since midnight, November fourth. Donald Trump, at that point, up by 548,000 votes. Let's move down to 2:00 a.m. It moved up to 709,000 votes.
Now start tracking and watch. It goes back down to 589,000 votes. Then, 3:00 p.m. on the fourth, 435,000 votes; then 276,000 votes. Then at 9:00 p.m., 195,000 votes.
What am I trying to tell you here? Joe Biden has been, with regularity, progressively eating away in major chunks at Donald Trump's lead.
Now, you made a key point when you were talking about the sheer volume of the vote that is coming in. Much of that vote has come in in vote- by-mail.
In the state of Pennsylvania, count vote-by-mail after you count the Election Day vote. That is why it is taking how long it has taken up to this point, and that is why this state initially was very red. It was leaning very heavily towards President Trump.
You saw the margins and why those margins are shrinking right now is the vote-by-mail is heavily Democratic. That has been the case almost across the entire country. So, Joe Biden, via vote-by-mail that has been skewed heavily Democratic, has been eating away at margins.
So the big question now with 11 percent outstanding, is does Joe Biden have enough vote outstanding to make up 164,000 votes? That doesn't mean is there 164,000 votes outstanding. Is there enough for him to make it up with margins? The short answer is yes and I'm going to show you why.
We will start with the biggest county in the state -- the commonwealth. Sorry -- Jake Tapper will get mad at me -- the commonwealth of Pennsylvania. That's Philadelphia County, home, obviously, of Philadelphia. Twelve percent of the voting population lives right here.
And you look at this margin right now, 79 percent to 19 percent. You say all right, that's a big margin. Well, there's still 30 percent outstanding here.
Take a look back at 2016 in this county. Look at two things. Look at the margin. Hillary Clinton had a better margin back in 2016. And look at the topline vote, 584,000 votes. What are you taking away from that?
Look back to 2020. Joe Biden's at 457,000 votes. There's record turnout in these states right now and he's about 120,000 votes behind Hillary Clinton. That means there's a lot more vote to come in in Philadelphia County and that margin is likely to change. What we have seen in vote-by-mail as it has come in is that it's skewed heavily towards Joe Biden in this state. So we expect this to come in big for Joe Biden.
You can start moving around these --
CUOMO: All right, let's take a break.
MATTINGLY: Yes.
CUOMO: Let's take a break and then I want to keep doing this. And you think I forgot. An hour and a half ago, I told you there was a question I hadn't asked you.
MATTINGLY: No, I've been waiting for that. I hoped you forgot.
CUOMO: I almost forgot it but now I remember it.
So we're going to take a break. When we come back we'll keep going through where we're looking in the serious business of Pennsylvania and when we expect to get more information. Stay with CNN.
You want to know what the question is?
MATTINGLY: Yes.
CUOMO: I'm not telling you.
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[05:52:23]
CUOMO: There's a lot of talk of potential litigation. Let's talk about actual litigation, and this is not something that's coming from the president but it is about the president. A federal judge is slamming the U.S. postal service for ignoring his federal order to search for undelivered mail-in ballots.
Joining us now is Jessica Huseman, CNN contributor.
First, give some context to this. What did the judge ask and what is his suggestion in terms of inaction?
JESSICA HUSEMAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: So, the judge ordered several postal offices across the country in high population areas to do a sweep of their facilities towards the end of the day. The USPS declined to follow this order in what is, I think, a pretty stunning choice in front of a federal judge, saying that it was too onerous and that they did not have the staff to do that work.
And then, the judge extended that and forced them to do some sweeps. The USPS has reported that only a handful of ballots were discovered across the country.
And that's sort of where we sit. I think that we're still waiting to see if the judge imposes any other remedies, so I think we just need to stay tuned.
CUOMO: Is there any third-party or outside source that in any way substantiates what number of ballots could be in play? You said only a handful. That's from USPS. Is there any other indication?
HUSEMAN: Well, this is really hard to track. And, you know, I -- yesterday, the number 300,000 made the rounds on social media as the number of ballots that have not been scanned in by the Postal Service. And so, some people are saying that this number could be as high as 300,000.
But truthfully, there are lots of reasons why ballots might not have been scanned into the system.
CUOMO: Right.
HUSEMAN: Some county clerks, for example, pick those up themselves. And so, it's just a hard number to know.
CUOMO: So, next step, and what is the potential implication on this?
HUSEMAN: So I think the next step is kind of just waiting as the count goes through and seeing what the post office does and the number of ballots that they continue to deliver.
You know, if you look at the way that the delivery rates have gone, we're really not seeing that many complaints from county clerks that lots and lots of mail has yet to be delivered or is substantially delayed. We are certainly seeing that in some isolated places but this doesn't appear to be a systemic problem.
[05:55:00]
And so, I think that while this certainly deserves scrutiny and while the USPS certainly has flouted a lot of its responsibility to do the work that it's assigned to do by the United States Constitution, it may not have that big of an impact on the overall count.
CUOMO: Jessica Huseman, thank you very much. Prepare yourself for a phone call to come on tonight to "CUOMO PRIME TIME" to cover this because we have to keep eyes on it, pending what happens with the election. Thank you very much, especially at these hours.
And guess what? We just --
HUSEMAN: Thanks so much.
CUOMO: Absolutely.
We just had a change of the state of play in Georgia. Let's take a break and we will take you through the new numbers. The race is closer. Stay with CNN.
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