Return to Transcripts main page

Cuomo Prime Time

President-Elect Joe Biden Urges Mask-Wearing To Conquer COVID- 19; Trump Team Turns Up No Proof Of Voter Fraud In 2020 Election; Esper's Firing Raises Concerns For National Security Leaders. Aired 9- 10p ET

Aired November 09, 2020 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[21:00:00]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --CNN app at any time on-demand. And our thoughts and our prayers are with Alex's wife, and three children, and we wish them peace and strength in the days ahead.

The news continues. Want to hand it over to Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME." Chris?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: Exactly the kind of guy that we need to remember, his values, his virtues, what he was about, right now. Well said, my friend. Appreciate it, Anderson.

All right, I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.

Trumpers want to fight, fine. Why haven't they gone to court? We only know what they show. And the only thing they're showing is that they are exactly what they falsely accused the other side of being.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Democrats are being sore losers, and they refuse to acknowledge they lost the election. So what do they do? They cry malfeasance, wrongdoing, criminality, fraud.

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST, THE INGRAHAM ANGLE: Democrats more so than Republicans seem to have a problem conceding defeat. Either the election system broke down or some mystery votes are hiding somewhere.

NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: You have a whole series of Democrats who've just said bluntly, "If our candidate doesn't win, they stole the election."

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS HOST, THE GREG GUTFELD SHOW: The Dems just want to make America suffer. It's like losing the World Series and demanding an extra inning a day later.

JEANINE PIRRO, FOX NEWS HOST: The Democrats are refusing to accept the declared results of the national media. So how do they do this? Lo and behold, they find missing ballots.

LOU DOBBS, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK ANCHOR, LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: The Radical-Left is attacking the sanctity of our votes. ED HENRY, FORMER FOX NEWS HOST: Refusing to accept the midterm election results. So, what if these were Republicans refusing to concede?

REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): Democrats may see how they'll be able, in the future, to steal elections through lawsuits--

DOBBS: Yes.

GAETZ: --that they can't win with the voters.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST, HANNITY: Ramping up election conspiracy theories, accusing Republicans of outright stealing the election, kind of rich.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Well done, Trevor Noah and his team. Putting the music to it made it even more of a cheap soap opera that it is. Thank you for that.

And what's the point? There's no shame in their game. They ignored the proof of suppression then, and they now want to front-run fraud issues without proof.

Even Mitch McConnell refusing to recognize President-elect Biden's victory, he wouldn't contradict Trump's lies that the election was stolen from him, but he didn't have any proof to offer. He didn't say he saw any proof. He offers nothing but more poison politics.

You want proof of that? Before his remarks, McConnell met with Attorney General Bill Barr. And guess what happened then?

Soon after, Barr authorized federal prosecutors, across America to pursue, quote, any substantial allegations of voting irregularities before the election is certified, despite zero evidence. Again, you have to keep saying that because it's not - this isn't how it works.

If you think something happened, you prove it. Are irregularities even crimes? And what substantial allegations? If they have seen any, why can't they share? Or is this more proof of why Trump not only lost but was impeached for abusing the power that you gave him? Proof of why he lost.

More proof? The Agency overseeing transition won't recognize Biden's victory, withholding funds and national security tools. They are keeping Biden from getting the security briefings that he needs to keep us safe. It is one of the first rights a president-elect has access to.

Highly-classified Intelligence briefings, that's what the current President gets. We know he doesn't pay attention to them, but Biden would, and we need that because we're in trouble.

COVID keeps getting worse. And Trump just does nothing. Today, we passed 10 million cases. Want more proof of why you lost? Because you say almost nothing about the problems, and Trump, you do even less.

What are you supposed to do? Watch Biden. This is what a President says in a pandemic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENT-ELECT: We have to come together to heal the soul of this country so that we can effectively address this crisis, as one country, where hardworking Americans have each other's backs, and where we're united in our shared goal, defeating this virus.

We can save tens of thousands of lives if everyone would just wear a mask.

The goal of mask-wearing is not to make your life less comfortable, it's to take something - or take something away from you. It's to give something back to all of us, a normal life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Giving the right message matters. Making plans, changing approaches, providing more money and guidance, it all matters. It makes people know what matters.

And it keeps the confidence of the people you need in a time like this, like Dr. Tony Fauci.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I have no intention of leaving. This is an important job. I have been doing it now for a very long time. I have been doing it under six presidents. It's an important job. And my goal is to serve the American public no matter what the Administration is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[21:05:00]

CUOMO: Let's bring in someone who can help us look at this in sharper focus because this is a critical moment and we need critical thinking. Tom Friedman, "New York Times" Columnist, Author of best-seller, "Thank You for Being Late."

Good to see you. How big a deal is it that they are trying to hamstring Biden from getting the briefings and allowing his team the transition help it needs?

TOM FRIEDMAN, FOREIGN AFFAIRS COLUMNIST, THE NEW YORK TIMES, AUTHOR, "THANK YOU FOR BEING LATE": Well, Chris, I keep thinking about this moment, and Trump is such a small man in such a big time. We are facing not only just a transition in power, but a transition in power in the middle of a pandemic.

And all over the world, not only in America, where Americans are looking to the government for help, Chris, all over the world, there are soldiers, men and woman, on post, right now, in Syria, in Iraq, in Afghanistan, ready to make the ultimate sacrifice for their country.

And these Republican senators and senior officials, who are backing Trump, in this ridiculous wild-goose chase, they will not make the smallest sacrifice. These are people, Chris, who will not risk $174,000 in salary, and free parking at national airport, to stand up and say the right thing.

It's not only shameful. This is actually, Chris, the biggest threat to our democracy since the Civil War. It's all from within. Because we have a deeply, deeply disturbed Party with - populated now by people, who are day-in and day-out ready to put the interests of that Party ahead of the nation and ahead of the Constitution.

CUOMO: Where is COVID theoretically in 70 days if we don't change course, double-down on messaging, rethink how we access different resources from the federal level, rethink what we're doing at schools? I mean, 70 days ago, we were on like a different planet, in terms of where COVID was headed.

FRIEDMAN: Yes, Chris, I really fear in 70 days, I mean you're going to be afraid to go to the grocery store. One thing we've all kind of gotten used to is, at least, going up, in my case, go to the grocery store, occasionally, meet people outside somewhere.

When you are up to 200,000 - 250,000 cases a day, which is what's possibly going to happen here, you will paralyze the whole economy. I don't even know how they'll be able to have an Inauguration.

Wouldn't you want to do everything, as Biden suggested, to minimize that, to bring that number down by doing the easiest thing, and also the most patriotic thing, wearing a mask, so you don't infect somebody else?

CUOMO: Let's put to the side the fact that Pfizer is not part of Operation Warp Speed for the development phase. They did this on their own with their own money.

Yes, I'm sure they were enticed by the billions for distribution into ramping this up and doing it. But they weren't part of it, so taking credit for their development isn't fair to Pfizer, frankly. But now they're going to get the money. They're going to distribute it.

And the idea that "We're good, Tom. We're good. That's it. We're going to be able to go back to normal life," what's being missed?

FRIEDMAN: What's being missed is, you know, this is just the inoculation process, Chris, is a two-stage process. You'll need to have two injections, several weeks apart, and then there will be a period before the full immunity kicks in.

And then, in terms of the number, to distribute this vaccine requires extremely cold temperatures, to be able to do this and maintain the vaccine and the cold chain. That's just something - actually what do you want?

You're going to want to enlist the U.S. Military for that. What did we do today? The President just decapitated the Secretary of Defense. Because why, because that Secretary of Defense wouldn't put Trump's interests ahead of the Constitution. People need to stop and think how crazy that is.

We just fired the Secretary of Defense because he wouldn't go to a church with Trump, move away crowds, so Trump could hold a Bible upside down, to advance his campaign, in the middle of a pandemic? Folks, do you realize how crazy that is?

And you know what's behind this man holding power. He knows, Chris. He is looking at humiliation, incarceration, and liquidation, if he's out of power, and he is going to do everything he can to hold on. And that's not to mention the other clowns around him.

CUOMO: Right. That's the real risk here. Trump is what he is.

FRIEDMAN: Yes.

CUOMO: Period!

FRIEDMAN: Yes.

CUOMO: But McConnell, Cruz, Rubio - yes.

FRIEDMAN: The other - but the other clowns the--

CUOMO: --a lot of big shots in that Party now and in the future is saying, "Hey, hold on, he may have something here."

FRIEDMAN: And, of course, as you noted, this is all court cases looking for evidence, not evidence demanding court cases, and every one of these guys, in the Administration, who don't speak up, Barr, Pompeo, oh, Chris, I want to be there.

[21:10:00]

Remember what Jimmy Baker said? How do you know you're out of power in Washington? "When your limousine is yellow and your driver speaks Farsi."

Oh, baby, I want to be there. I want to be there and watch Barr and Pompeo, having to hail a cab. And that's what they fear. They fear their perks. And they are ready to sell out this country in order to preserve their perks, their fantasies about running for president one day, and their need for the endorsement of this incredibly-disturbed man, who is our President.

CUOMO: But one way or another, the people who are on the Executive side are going to be out. I'm worried about the legislative side. I mean, Joe Biden is not going to be able to get us the kind of relief that families need. I don't have to tell you this.

But for the audience, just a reminder, we have more people standing in line for food in this country than we have in decades. I mean, we're talking about since the Great Depression. That takes two to tango, Tom. You know that very well. You know, if these guys are holding on to Trump's coattails thinking what, he's going to run again in four years or something like that, I mean what's the chance that we get the kinds of action we need to get past this pandemic?

FRIEDMAN: You can sit back, Chris, and say, "Well it's actually good if you have divided government." Everyone has skin in the game, OK? And then maybe they'll want to cooperate more.

But what is McConnell telling us? He's not - he wants his - your scalp in the game, OK? That's what he wants. He's already telling us he's going to try to do to Biden what he did to Obama.

And what that means is, I hope - I hope everybody moves to Georgia, you know, in the next month or two, registers to vote, and votes for these two Democratic senators, running against incidentally two Georgia senators, both of whom were investigated for what? For getting a briefing on the Coronavirus and then selling stocks before the public was aware of that information, both of them were investigated for that.

CUOMO: So, as you look at it now, where do you think we are in a month?

FRIEDMAN: Chris, I really worry. And we talked about this before, that we will not be able to have a legitimate transfer of power. Right now, there is really - there is really this competition in the country between truth-tellers and truth-deniers.

And what is at least somewhat hopeful is the truth-tellers now have Republicans on that side, George W. Bush, Dan Quayle, even "The Wall Street Journal" Editorial today, the Business Roundtable.

So, the truth-tellers are not just Democrats, but the truth-deniers are - they are entrenched, and they are - they will literally say and do anything, so much so that something amazing happened on Fox TV today.

Neil Cavuto cutoff Kayleigh McEnany, the White House Spokeswoman, when she was peddling lies. Fox TV did that.

CUOMO: Well Neil Cavuto did.

FRIEDMAN: That tells you the level of corruption that we have going on here.

And so, I'm hoping that in this fight, and it's really a fight over truth, that the truth-tellers will build up more and more support because the truth-deniers, Chris, and this gets back to your early question, there's really two categories of them.

There is the worst category, the truth-deniers who know just what they're doing, Lindsey Graham, Ted Cruz, Bill Barr, they know just what they're doing. It's so cynical, putting Party before country.

And then, unfortunately, there's all these people who are buying it because Trump has so poisoned the well. And I can't tell you who's going to win in that fight. All I can tell you, Chris, is we're playing with fire, because you keep pumping this up, and there are a lot of guns in this country.

And I repeat what I have said before this, you know? We could not - we could face a situation where we cannot have a legitimate transfer of power. And if that happens, all bets are off.

CUOMO: Because there really is no mechanism. That's not true. You'll have the Electoral College.

FRIEDMAN: Right.

CUOMO: If they come through and do it, then you have the Inauguration. Hopefully, those traditions and, obviously, the Electoral College, as a legal process, will be it. The problem becomes if they try to mess with the Electoral College.

FRIEDMAN: Right.

CUOMO: And then you don't have a lot of protective mechanisms because we've never really gone through that. But as they say, the best - the easiest words to say in the - the words that mean nothing, we will see.

Tom Friedman, thank you very much. Appreciate your perspective.

FRIEDMAN: Any time, Chris. Thank you.

CUOMO: I mean, look, any way you think about it, for me it's all about the pandemic. Everything we care about has something to do with the pandemic.

Our kids in their schools, we know it's not working as well as it does, OK? One case, everything shuts down. There's a lack of resources. There's a lack of understanding. The economy, it's not going anywhere until we figure out the pandemic. That's always been true. We've just never dealt with it that way.

[21:15:00]

And now we have the President, gets rid of the Secretary of Defense, who is in charge of Operation Warp Speed, on the same day he wants to brag about the fruits of Operation Warp Speed, even though Pfizer had nothing to do with Warp Speed? That's the kind of crazy that is the basis for why he lost.

Now, Joe Biden is supposed to be the next President of the United States. This is a numbers game. And we have the main players in protecting the integrity of the process to prove it, next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.

(END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: You know, this election isn't over.

Across the country, a whole lot of Americans remain hard at work. They're not just background for live shots. They're the backbone of our democracy. Even in states that were called days ago, they still got to count all the votes, and that's always been the rule. That's not something that Trump and the Trumpers are asking for.

[21:20:00]

Now, as they are counting those votes, right now, we see a gap of more than 4 million votes between the two candidates. I call it a spanking, because when you have more Americans come out to vote against you, than we have ever seen before, it's a big deal. And the gap between these two men, may wind up being bigger than four of the last six elections.

We know the electoral vote is what matters, right? I know some of you like it. Some of you don't. It is what it is. Joe Biden is the President-elect with at least 279 electoral votes right now.

They say the media doesn't call it. We're going off what the states tell us. There are four states that have still not been called. Biden leads two of them, Arizona and Georgia. Both of which saw his lead grow today.

It's worth pointing out the Secretary of State in Georgia is a Republican, who Trump endorsed, and now, he's getting beat up on, by his own Party, because he's saying this is up to voters, not politicians, OK? That's how deep the toxicity is in that Party.

The flip side of all this is in a place like North Carolina, where the President holds a sizable lead. He's not saying anything about late- arriving ballots there, right? Ballots have until Thursday to be received in that State, as long as they were postmarked by Election Day.

Well, isn't that what you were complaining about? Where is all the consternation? Is it really as simple as "If you win, good! If you lose, fraud!" Is that what a president does? Is that what supporters of a president does - do? Is that what senators do?

In Alaska, Trump still holds a big lead, always has, still a long way to go. Mail-in counting doesn't even start until Tuesday. You see what I'm saying? For all the talk about recounts and the, you know, all these things, come on!

Michigan, you want a recount. Look at the margin, six figures. You think a recount is going to change that? Google, see what kind of factor recounts involve. Nothing like that, nothing close.

In Wisconsin, the 21,000 margin, doesn't seem like a lot, until you remember, there was a recount in 2016. Remember that? And guess what it did? It widened Trump's margin, by 131 votes, but still, it's the principal.

They don't matter that much. And when they do, if you want to do it, there are laws, OK? There are laws. There are standards. You can do this. This is built into the system. The work of democracy continues, OK?

Now, on these naked allegations, OK, a court case in search of proof to substantiate the case, let's go to some of the officials on the ground, OK?

We have Nevada's Attorney General, Aaron Ford. We have Michigan's Secretary of State, Jocelyn Benson, and Ann Jacobs, Chair of the Wisconsin State Elections Commission.

Thank you all three for joining me.

AARON FORD, NEVADA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Thank you for having me.

JOCELYN BENSON, MICHIGAN SECRETARY OF STATE: Good to be here.

ANN JACOBS, CHAIR, WISCONSIN STATE ELECTIONS COMMISSION: Happy to be here.

CUOMO: Just simple, for a second, do any of you have any basis for belief that something very wrong happened in one of your elections, anybody?

FORD: Absolutely not.

CUOMO: No.

JACOBS: No.

CUOMO: Has anybody come forward with substantial allegations? I'm not talking like one or two or legit stuff, but not one case, like bunches of cases that would have made a difference.

BENSON: No.

FORD: Not here.

JACOBS: Absolutely not.

CUOMO: So, let me start with you, Mr. A.G. The idea of the DoJ now looking into substantial allegations of irregularities, you are the A.G., I don't even know that irregularities count as potential crimes, but that the DoJ should look at, but let's say they do.

What do you think about that in terms of what kind of fruit this probe will bear in your State?

FORD: Well, first off, that's not how we do things around here.

For 40 years, presidents, Democrats and Republican - Democratic and Republican, have stayed out of state elections. We run these elections. We canvas these elections. And we certify these elections. And at least until the certification stage, they stay out.

So, I'm a little perturbed about the fact that they're coming in right now to look for what they call, irregularities, that, which is, as you have indicated, is not a legal term of art that leads to anything. That said I have complete confidence on what we've done here in our State.

You talked about Georgia, having a Republican Secretary of State. We have a Republican Secretary of State here in Nevada. And I believe in her competency. And I believe in the competency of these 17 registrars that we have in our state as well who are working on these issues.

And so, them coming in, I don't believe, is going to reveal anything beyond the one-off. And, in fact, it's going to reveal just the opposite that these allegations are only substantial - speculative, and have no basis at all.

[21:25:00]

CUOMO: Secretary of State, Benson, the idea that one case can come up, two - I mean, look, there are cases all the time. Somebody is dead, somebody steals their identity, or whatever it is, know that some ballot gets through that shouldn't have.

What is the bar for you in terms of understanding when you have a problem with your election result?

BENSON: Well, certainly we are focused on making sure every valid vote counts.

And what we recognize actually is happening right now are a lot of press releases masquerading as legal claims that are geared up promoting false information and ultimately trying to erode voters' confidence in what was an extraordinarily well-run election.

So, my metric, my bar is really looking at the election workers, their work and the transparency of the process. And, by the way, there have been more eyes, more scrutiny, on this election, in Michigan, than any I can recall in recent history.

So, the bottom line is I'm confident that any inquiries that proceed in Michigan or elsewhere are only going to reveal the truth. And that's what so many of us involved in the process already know. This election was smooth, secure, transparent and accurate.

CUOMO: Chairman Jacobs, how concerned are you about the effect on the integrity of the process these allegations have? Because they're not easy to disprove. That's what's going to happen here, is that the onus politically is going to shift from "It's on the President and the Trumpers to prove it" to "It's on you to disprove it." JACOBS: You put your finger right on it, which is that all these allegations of fraud, and malfeasance, and the like come up, and then the - we say there's - "It's not real. It's not going on. You're making this up." And then they say, "Well, you know, prove it's not happening," and that's an impossibility.

And so, what we've got to talk about really is to leave the conspiracy theories behind, leave talk radio behind, and leave all these made-up allegations, and focus on the fact that we had a well-run completely supervised election.

We're now in the middle of our canvas. Everybody can go watch the canvas. And looks like we may have a recount, people can watch the recount. But we got to stop pretending that there is fraud when there is none and it's just made-up.

CUOMO: Do any of you have a concern that politics will enter into this on the level of state legislators and the electors?

JACOBS: We just had a state legislator who put out a rather bizarre press release where he said that he would like to see a, quote, revote of the presidential election.

There is no such thing. So, when you say "Are we concerned?" it's already out there. And my hope is that saner heads will prevail, and that level of discourse will come down, and they will treat the election as the fair election it was.

CUOMO: Jacobs is with Wisconsin. Benson, you are with Michigan. Are you worried that there could be politics at the legislative level to pick electors that are just for the President?

BENSON: We certainly see a lot of rhetoric out there right now, of saying, almost as a warning, but, you know, again, I don't see it having any legs.

Actually, my predecessor is a Republican Secretary of State, already said publicly that they're increase (ph) really isn't about trying to overturn the will of the voters. And so, what ultimately this is going to be about, I think, is the same type of false rhetoric, and misinformation we saw during the election itself.

And the bottom line is the American people have voted. We all were there. And ethical experience - election workers, from - count everywhere - and now we're moving, and I'm - I - have confidence that ultimately - we will have the law on our side, and we look forward, day-to-day in this process that will continually become more evident to more who are watching.

CUOMO: A.G., how do you feel that the process is going in Nevada in terms of the integrity of it?

FORD: Well, I'm not concerned at all about the integrity of it. And what we've always said is that, in my office, we actually prosecute claims of voter fraud that are substantiated. I'm doing one right now. Here's the question for you. If, in fact, we had such a history of voter fraud in our state, why haven't previous attorneys generals, including my predecessor, prosecuted any at all?

And, in fact, there is only one that's been prosecuted as of late. And I'm prosecuting that. And I don't anticipate having problems on a going-forward basis.

But if they happen, if voter fraud is proven, if they file a complaint, not a press release, not a PR stunt, not a statement on television, if they were to file a complaint with my office, not a redacted affidavit, which is what that they tried to do, a complaint where we can call someone, perform an investigation, ascertain whether we should prosecute someone, we will do it.

But they're not doing that. Instead, they're playing this in a press, because they know that they have no leg to stand on. That's why they have been thrown out of court four times, already, trying to attack the integrity of our relation - of our elections. And we will continue prevailing because I believe in the integrity of our relation - of our elections.

CUOMO: Well good people doing the job that you were elected to do. Thank you very much for taking the opportunity in a busy time.

[21:30:00]

I want the audience to hear from you. You are the guys who are in charge of the elections in your state. You understand the apparatus. And I just wanted to make sure they hear from you. Nobody is hearing about anything except from pundits and political players.

So, thank you very much, all three. Good luck in your efforts going forward.

BENSON: Thank you, Chris.

JACOBS: Thank you.

FORD: Thanks so much.

CUOMO: All right, so there you have Nevada, Michigan and Wisconsin. And, yes, there are other states in play with it.

But I'm telling you, we only know what they show. Anybody brings me evidence of big bundles of votes that were done, or harvest (ph) right or wrong, bring them on. None of us has an interest in anything but the integrity of the process.

But this is poison, what they're doing. And I'm not going to ignore it. I'll ignore the tweets. I'll ignore a lot of the poison around the edges. But the main infection, I'm not going to ignore it. You have to expose it. You have to show there's nothing there. And if there is something there, we have to vet it.

But we have to stop this in this country. You either tell the truth, or you're telling a lie. And either one has to be exposed, especially why? Because look at where we are. We are in the middle of a pandemic, 10 million cases.

Do you remember when they were saying 40,000, and people were saying, it could double, "Oh, double, sure!" It has doubled. Plus, outbreaks among key members of Trump-world, what better metaphor do you need? We wish them all well, even if they don't seem to wish the rest of us the same.

So, let's get into this vaccine. How good is this news? I'm like this, just like you, but let's the facts. Our Chief Doctor Sanjay Gupta, he spoke to the Head of the company. What stage are they at? What does it mean for us in a month, three months, six months? Next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[21:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: 10 million cases, over 100,000 a day. This is what they said would never happen. "There's no reason to get all crazy about it. Things are going the right way. We're rounding the corner."

I told you "Rounding the corner" was a clever way of hiding the fact that we are doing spirals down into hell with this thing. We have to do more and better. It is spreading exponentially in all regions of the country.

For the past five days straight, we have exceeded that 100,000 per case day - 100,000 cases per day limit. The road we're on is not good. But of course, there is hope. We know that the models show that if you up how people are dealing with the basics, right, the masks, the distancing, what we choose to do and don't do, things get better.

And today we got great news about the potential of our future. Drug- maker Pfizer announced that early data shows its COVID vaccine is more than 90 percent effective.

We're all seizing on the "90," I think we should be ceasing on the "Early" part. I am not Mr. Debbie Downer, all right? I just don't like false expectations about a pandemic. So, let's discuss with Sanjay Gupta, Chief Doctor.

Early testing shows 90 percent effectiveness, how much faith do you put in that? How much optimism? DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'm kind of with you, Chris. I mean, overall, I think this is - this is good news. I mean this is a good day in terms of the overall news about the pandemic.

But it is early, and it's also interim, meaning that it's not just that there are early analysis. They still have more data to collect here. But it's fairly promising.

And the way this works, Chris, as you know, is that the CEO of Pfizer, he hasn't seen the data. The investigators haven't seen the data. It's this Independent Committee that unblinds it for the first time, analyzes it, and then called the CEO, 2 o'clock, yesterday, and said, "Hey, this thing looks really good."

I'll show you the numbers quickly, Chris. I think people are sometimes surprised by these types of numbers.

But 44,000 people roughly in the trial. Trial's been going on for some time. Half of them get vaccine. Half get placebo. Within that time period, 94 people became infected with COVID-19, but only 10 percent of them were in the group that received the vaccine.

The majority of the people who got infected were in the group that received the placebo. That's basically it, Chris. That's how they sort of know that this thing seems to be effective.

I talked to the CEO about this. He's bullish, as you might imagine. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALBERT BOURLA, PFIZER CEO: 90 percent is a game-changer. 90 percent, now, you are hoping to have a tool in your war against this pandemic that could be significantly effective. How long this protection will last is something that we don't know right now, but it's part of the objective of the study.

We will follow-up, the 44,000 people that they received their part of this study for two years. And during this follow-up, obviously, we will be looking also the durability of the immune responses.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: All right. So obviously, it's about how long it would last and whether or not this--

GUPTA: Yes.

CUOMO: --efficacy holds in terms of more testing. But, look, all good news, you know? It is better than having it be 10 percent effective and they don't think it is.

But what other news came out of that interview for you in terms of the known/unknowns and concerns going forward? GUPTA: Well I think there is three ingredients and that we're talking about here, the efficacy, the effectiveness one, safety. They still need to weigh down this. And we're not going to know safety data - full safety data until the end of this month.

But then, Chris, we're talking about - the other thing that came out of this, this is one of the largest distribution projects we've ever seen in our history.

[21:40:00]

We're talking potentially two medications - two shots of this medication that's stored at incredibly cold temperature. There are refrigerators - football fields full of refrigerators, in cities across America, right now, getting ready to store this, and then getting ready for distribution.

And in order for this to work, Chris, it's not just the United States. They have to - this vaccine has to be available in many places around the world because an infection or an outbreak anywhere is an infection or outbreak everywhere. So it matters that this--

CUOMO: How big a deal is the refrigeration?

GUPTA: I think it's challenging, Chris. I will tell you. If there were a vaccine out there that was one shot and did not need that sort of refrigeration, as we're seeing with the Johnson & Johnson one, I think that would be a much easier distribution project. They got to come up with these special cases that can store it.

CUOMO: Yes, what's up with the refrigeration?

GUPTA: Then you have to have the right size for that.

CUOMO: Why does one need it and one doesn't?

GUPTA: So it's a different type of vaccine. With this - with this genetic vaccine, this mRNA vaccine, it needs to be stored at a very cold temperature. Otherwise, it becomes unstable.

Some of these other vaccines don't need that sort of cold temperature. And many of them need refrigeration still, but not this super-cold temperature. And that makes it challenging. Think about the United States, but start thinking about other--

CUOMO: Right.

GUPTA: --countries and hard-to-reach places within those countries. It matters.

So that, you know, how they're going to get that done, I think, is a big part of this. They got three huge facilities here in the United States. They got one in Germany and Belgium where they're going to - that's going to be responsible for the rest of the world.

And we got other vaccine-makers out there, Chris that are sort of coming up behind Pfizer that may have perfectly viable vaccines. So overall, I think, it's good news. And there's a lot of momentum. I feel like I could see possibly with this vaccine on the horizon could start to see the end of this thing in sight.

I don't want to be too hyperbolic about this, Chris, but it felt good to say, "Hey, look, the end is here, if you just buckle down on these public health behaviors," like you are talking about, we'll get through this.

CUOMO: Is 90 percent amazing? Like what's the flu vaccine?

GUPTA: The flu vaccine is somewhere between 40 percent and 60 percent. FDA would have accepted 50 percent for this vaccine. So, 90 percent is very good. But I do want to make a point, because I think this is why you're asking it.

80 percent of people who get this infection will have minimal or no symptoms already. So now you say "Well we're doing a vaccine. It's 90 percent going to protect you against getting infected." Well 80 percent don't really have much in the way of symptoms anyways.

What we really want to know is how well is it going to work for people who are at risk of severe disease? If you were at risk of severe disease, does this help you? And hopefully, it will.

But that's the kind of data that we still don't have. And even the Pfizer folks haven't seen that data yet. So they're bullish, but there's a lot more that we still need to uncover.

CUOMO: And the dumbest thing to do is put that much pressure on the efficacy of a vaccine by not doing anything else in any large-scale way, to help keep people from getting this.

If we're just all-in on a vaccine, as we just said, the only thing we really do that with virally is people will know is the flu. And even that, I mean, we have--

GUPTA: Right.

CUOMO: --we have very mixed results with it. So Sanjay, thank you for keeping people straight about this.

GUPTA: You got it, Chris.

CUOMO: It's good news, but we're not done, in other words. And that's OK as long as we're all working together to get to a better place. Take care.

GUPTA: Yes. You bet, Chris, thanks.

CUOMO: All right. Love that Sanjay Gupta!

Now, by the way, on the vaccine thing, so Trump is all happy, right? His people are all happy. "We brought you the vaccine." One, not true. Pfizer is not part of Operation Warp Speed. It will be now for distribution, if the data holds. But if you are so psyched about Operation Warp Speed, and you say, "See? We" - why did you just fire the guy who runs it? You just fired the Defense Secretary for no good reason, and he runs Operation Warp Speed. Now, what about the heads of the FBI and CIA? Could they really be next?

And on top of that needless chaos, what does it mean that a transition is being held up, let alone by a President who refuses to accept that he lost. What are the big implications?

We got a former CIA Director here with what all this means, and what it takes to get an Administration up, and what we need right now, next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[21:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: The Defense Secretary is out. Petty politics, but a big problem, why? He runs Operation Warp Speed, and that's kind of key to the meager efforts of dealing with this vaccine and the pandemic.

Our reporting is that now the Heads of the CIA and FBI may be next. Why? Petty politics.

And because of this GSA mess, that's the agency that helps deal with the transition, we know the President-elect isn't getting access to the same high-classified - highly-classified Intel that his predecessors did in the middle of a pandemic.

Let's discuss the threat with former CIA Director, John Brennan. He's got a new book out, by the way. "Undaunted: My Fight Against America's Enemies, At Home and Abroad."

Good to see you, Sir.

JOHN BRENNAN, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA, AUTHOR, "UNDAUNTED": Good evening, Chris.

CUOMO: So people hear this news, "Eh, that's Trump being Trump. It will pass." What are they missing?

BRENNAN: They're missing what is a very, very worrisome development. It's clear that Mark Esper was removed as Secretary of Defense because

he rebuffed Donald Trump's efforts to politicize the U.S. Military. And I think it's quite apparent from reporting that Mark Esper has stood up to Donald Trump repeatedly. Who knows what else he has refused to do?

And the Secretary of Defense position is, I think, the most consequential position in the U.S. government aside from the President of the United States because it is the Secretary of Defense who carries out the orders given by a president for military operations.

And if Mark Esper has been pushed aside because he is not listening to Donald Trump, carry out these orders, who knows what his successor, this Acting Secretary, Chris Miller is going to do if Donald Trump does give some type of order that really is counter to, I think, what our national security interests need to be.

CUOMO: One more rebuttal to a shoulder-shrug. "70 days, you know, he'll be gone in 70 days anyway once the Electoral College meets and we have the Inauguration."

[21:50:00]

BRENNAN: 70 days, you can do a lot of damage in 70 days. He still is the President of the United States.

And is he going to carry out these vendettas against other individuals, as you pointed out, Chris Wray or Gina Haspel or others? It is clear that Donald Trump is trying to exercise the power because he can. And he is going to settle scores.

But I'm very concerned what he might do in his remaining 70 days in office. Is he going to take some type of military action? Is he going to release some type of information that could in fact threaten our national security interests?

So, I think people need to be looking very carefully at what he's doing. And unfortunately, Republicans in Congress continue to give Donald Trump a pass.

CUOMO: All right, so this is the key question. What can be done? Short of him messing with the Electoral College, and trying to have Republican or friendlies pick their own electors, and go grand scale with faithless electors, what can be done to stop anything he wants to do in the next 70 days?

BRENNAN: Well, if Vice President Pence and the Cabinet had an ounce of fortitude and spine and patriotism, I think they would seriously consider invoking the 25th Amendment and pushing Donald Trump out, because he is just very unpredictable now. He's like a cornered cat - tiger. And he is going to lash out.

And the fact that again that he has the powers of the Presidency in his hands is quite worrisome. Now, we know that Attorney General Barr has done Donald Trump's bidding in the past. Will he continue to do that vis-a-vis this election? I don't know. But I do think it's something that the Members of Congress, the leadership of the Republican Party really needs to send clear signals to Donald Trump that if he goes - continues to go along this path they are going to put up road blocks.

CUOMO: What do you make of the Attorney General saying that his investigators before the Electoral College will look at substantial allegations of voting irregularities? As you and I both know, irregularities is not a legal standard or any kind of criminal rubric. But what do you make of that?

BRENNAN: Well, I think it's an unprecedented move.

And again, since William Barr has shown that he is willing to be Donald Trump's personal defense lawyer, as opposed to the Attorney General of the United States, I am concerned that he's going to be looking at this in a very one-sided manner.

And so, I think this is something that hopefully the state attorney generals and others are going to stand fast and also the Department of Justice professional - professionals are going to carry out their duties irrespective of whatever type of political winds they feel are blowing their way.

CUOMO: John Brennan, thank you very much for your perspective. Appreciate it. Love to have you back when we see what happens next. The new book, "Undaunted," on sale right now. Be well, Sir.

BRENNAN: Thank you.

CUOMO: All right. You've heard by now, Alex Trebek is gone. He brought us together the way few people can. He is such a reminder, especially now. Hate that he's gone. I hate what took him. But there are things you don't know about Alex Trebek that you do need to know right now. And I can tell you, and I will.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[21:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Alex Trebek. What you know? "Jeopardy!" Host, nearly three decades, lost his fight to pancreatic cancer at 80. He held all the answers. Cultural icon, paragon of wisdom, even keel, decent. But what you don't know matters more. Trebek was obsessed with cleaning his own gutters. He thought way too

much about irrigation at his house.

He would talk about his wife of 30 years, Jean, like they just met 30 days ago. He could come out of a hard chemo haze almost instantly at a mention of his kids, Matthew, Emily, Nicky. He was so impressed by his family, wildly, like a fan. And when I mentioned, "Well, you made them that way," "No, no, no, no," he'd say.

Let me tell you, to his family, he loved you the way any father and a husband dreams of having that capacity. He was all in on you. And he was so proud of what you are as people.

Trebek knew he was in a battle almost no one wins. He never discussed the negativity of it with me. He would only talk about what he could handle today.

And he told me, "You know, you think you control so much more than you do. You need to realize that, that you don't control very much, and you need to enjoy the mystery in life even when it's bad. And what you can control, you need to embrace with your heart before your hands."

Alex reached out to me, some time ago, to help me. He wouldn't say that, but it became really obvious once we started talking.

He cared so much about this country, but even more so about us as people. He wasn't about parties or process. He wasn't political that way. He would always slough it off by saying "Well I'm from Canada."

He kept pounding into me to remind people that we are better than what's around us, and that disagreement is a waste of time when you can deal with things--