Return to Transcripts main page

CNN RIGHT NOW

Trump Fires Defense Secretary Esper; Pfizer CEO Says Vaccine is More Than 90 Percent Effective; Housing Secretary Ben Carson Tests Positive for Coronavirus. Aired 14-14:30p ET

Aired November 09, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Hi there, it is the top of the hour, I am Brianna Keilar, and we're 48 hours after the presidential election that was called for Joe Biden, and President Trump is forcing out his Defense Secretary Mark Esper. He fired him in a tweet last hour, quote, "Mark Esper has been terminated. I would like to thank him for his service." Esper had his resignation letter ready for go. He was fully aware of his strain relationship with President Trump and the vulnerable spot that it put him in.

It's a rift that deepened after Esper said he did not support using active-duty troops to calm protests nationwide during the Summer. I want to talk now with our CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr, we have CNN White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins as well. Kaitlan, what more do you know about the president's decision to fire his defense secretary today.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, White House officials, Brianna, are surprised it took this long for the president to do it. Because they thought it was going to come immediately after Tuesday. But of course, the president was a little bit distracted last week as he is contesting the outcome of this election.

So, now, we are seeing this happen now as the writing had been on the wall for some time because the president and Esper, their relationship had deteriorated. We know they clashed over the Summer over those protests, and the president wanting to use active-duty troops to help control them, something that Esper publicly said, I believe in what was his last briefing, Barbara can check me on that, that he did not agree with invoking the Insurrection Act, even though that was something that the president had floated publicly.

And so the president had characterized Esper as a yes man, once referring to him as yes-per in a press conference though. It's notable that this was something that they had actually broken over, that Esper did not agree with the president on this. But I also think, Brianna, what we're seeing is, this is the president trying to take control of something that he is in charge of, purging his cabinet if he wants to as we know, is something that was indicated several weeks ago, while he can't control the outcome of the elections. Something that he is actively trying to contest. And so, I think this is not going to be a very quiet transition for Donald Trump, but I don't think many people believed that, the fact that this is happening so soon after the election really goes to show that.

KEILAR: And Barbara, I wonder, how is this received over at the Pentagon?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think amongst almost everyone here except perhaps for the secretary, a good deal of surprise at the actual timing at this hour today. You know, they knew it was potentially coming, I don't think anybody expected it today as they came to work. Look, Esper may well consider this at the end of the day about Javana(ph) to be fired by Donald Trump. He is very committed to what he decided that the Insurrection Act was not necessary, that American troops do not belong on the streets of this country against American citizens peacefully protesting. He did not believe that they were needed. And he stands by that to this day.

An acting Defense Secretary is coming in, Chris Miller, currently the head of counter-terrorism, a former relatively junior DOD official. You know, he will have his work cut out for him, being Defense Secretary carries enormous global power, and they really stops and starts at the authority you have to move troops around the world. This is essential what being defense secretary is all about at the end of the day, looking after U.S. military troops, making sure they are trained and equipped to go into battle, making sure U.S. troops are where they need to be and not where they don't need to be.

Mr. Trump has been very adamant that he wants to consider bringing all troops home, for example, by Christmas, from Afghanistan. He has military advice from the Pentagon that that's a terrible idea. They still need to be there because of the level of violence. He wants to bring troops home eventually, if not sooner, fairly quickly from Iraq, from Syria, from many places around the globe. The Pentagon has been giving him cautionary advice on that, not to dismantle forward U.S. military presence around the globe, that it's an important push-back against adversaries and it supports of allies. Will this acting secretary between now and inauguration day really have the clout to push back against the White House?

To carry the best military advice that is coming from the Joint Chiefs of Staff, from commanders around the globe who know their areas of operation. This is going to be one of the key questions. The other thing this new acting secretary is facing, the COVID pandemic.

[14:05:00]

It is still very much part of military life, U.S. troops are getting that, not at the rate civilians are. But just on Friday, we saw 60 U.S. military personnel being deployed to city hospitals in El Paso, Texas, to try and help those overworked healthcare workers, where they are having a really terrible increase in COVID down in Texas. So, the U.S. military will still be very much part of the COVID response, whether Mr. Trump wants to embrace that or not, that is something that will be on the desk of this new acting secretary between now and inauguration day. There's a $700 billion-plus Defense Spending Bill has to get through Congress. Mr. Trump threatening to veto that if the language is maintained that would rename army bases named after Confederate generals. That may be one of the big first losses that Mr. Trump is facing post-election here at the Pentagon, Brianna.

KEILAR: Barbara and Kaitlan, thank you so much to both of you. I want to talk now with our CNN military analyst, Lieutenant General Mark Hertling who is retired, he is a former army commanding general of Europe and the Seventh Army. What is your reaction -- and I say this, knowing that this may not just be a one-off, sir, this may be an indication of other folks who could be losing their job soon in the administration. What's your reaction to this?

MARK HERTLING, FORMER ARMY COMMANDING GENERAL OF EUROPE & SEVENTH ARMY: That's what's most concerning to me, Brianna. We can talk all day about the personalities and the conflicts within Washington D.C., but truthfully this is not surprising to a lot of people as Barbara mentioned. The Pentagon and what Secretary Esper runs as the Secretary of Defense is the largest organization in government, and during this transition period, they become increasingly important especially as our allies and friends as well as our foes around the world see what kind of shape that the United States is in with this very contentious election.

So, we're talking about a two and a half-month time frame where we have a relatively junior acting Secretary of Defense. Now, Mr. Miller, by all accounts has a great reputation and he is a great individual, but he is junior, and I would suggest that it would take him a long time to learn the intricacies of being the Secretary of Defense, more than two and a half months if he had it available. But the other thing you have to consider is, this is a dangerous time for the U.S. government. The transition period between governments, other allies and partners as well as foes around the world see us being in a state where they can take advantage or an opportunity.

And I would say that Mister -- right, the Secretary of Defense is probably the most important, then you talk about the intelligence community, the head of the CIA, the head of the FBI, and then Homeland Security in terms of threats to the United States during this very intense period. Barbara brought up a very good point when she talked about the desire for the military to push back on the Insurrection Act. If we see increasing domestic terrorists activity, I think you're going to see President Trump wanting to call out either martial law, the Insurrection Act again, and it would be -- it would be easier not to have a Secretary Esper in place, because he has promised to push back on that until he got the right reasons to do so. All of those factors play a --

KEILAR: Yes --

HERTLING: Part in a very irrational move by the president, but not unexpected move.

KEILAR: Yes, well, easier, I will say at this point for someone to choose to stand up for what is right versus a president who has not been re-elected. So, we'll see what choices folks make here in the coming months. General Hertling, thank you so much, it's great to see you. The U.S. has just surpassed 10 million cases of coronavirus, and President-elect Joe Biden got to work today on how he is going to tackle this pandemic. We'll have those details next. Plus, there's breaking news from Pfizer that its vaccine has proven to be more than 90 percent effective, we'll have CNN's Sanjay Gupta who just spoke to the CEO, he's going to join us live.

And Housing Secretary Ben Carson has tested positive for coronavirus. One of six people who was at the president's election night party that contracted in the past week.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:10:00]

KEILAR: President-elect Joe Biden has wasted no time establishing his future administration's top priority which is tackling the coronavirus pandemic. We just learned that the total number of cases in the U.S. has now surpassed 10 million. Biden met today with his COVID advisory panel, he is pushing his plan for more PPE and free testing nationwide. Here was the president-elect just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Projections still indicate we could lose 200,000 more lives in the coming months before a vaccine can be made widely available. So we can't forgo the important work that needs to be done between now and then. This election is over. It's time to put aside the partisanship. A mask remains the most potent weapon against the virus. Today's news does not change that urgent reality. I won't be president until January 20th. But my message today is to everyone, is this, it doesn't matter who you voted for, whether you stood -- where you stood before election day. It doesn't matter your party, your point of view. We could save tens of thousands of lives if everyone would just wear a mask for the next few months. Not Democratic, Republican lives, American lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: President Trump meanwhile continues to fight facts and the results of the election, feeding unfounded claims that it was stolen from him and preventing the Biden transition team from critical funding.

[14:15:00]

We'll have more on that in a moment. First though, to CNN's Jessica Dean, she is covering the president-elect in Wilmington, Delaware. And Jessica, Joe Biden emphasizing science and how that will determine the course of action.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna, it is quite a contrast to what we have heard from President Trump and his administration. President-elect Biden speaking today, laying out his plan. This is all about telegraphing to the American people that they are ready to do the work. He put together his advisory board, the transition announcing that advisory board earlier this morning, and notably on that board, Rick Bright, the Trump administration whistleblower who was waving the flag early in all of this, and said that the Trump administration dismissed his concerns, and that ultimately led to his ouster.

So, again, those contrasts there, but hearing from President-elect Biden today, he laid out to the American people what they want to do. He talked about expanding access to free testing, about increasing the availability of PPE, how they want to make sure that they have guidance, that is across the board, so everything is uniform that it is not hodgepodge. They have a lot of these ideas that he's being briefed on by many of these people that are now on his board for months now as a candidate. Now that he is president-elect, the real work begins. And Biden and his entire team know that. They know that this is going to be a tremendous amount of work, but he said today, that they're going to spare no expense.

They're going to throw everything they've got at getting this pandemic under control. And Brianna, to that point, that's the promise he made the American people, that he had a plan, he and Kamala Harris had a plan that they could get this virus under control and help return America back to some semblance of normalcy. So, we're seeing those first steps today, but also you just heard in his remarks there, we heard a lot about unity still, and we can expect him to continue to come back to that message again and again. It's about getting this virus under control for them, but also as we've heard him say many times, healing the nation, bringing the nation together.

KEILAR: All right, it is a tall order, Jessica Dean, thank you so much, live from Delaware for us. President Trump's refusal to concede is not just about politics. It has a practical impact that could set back the future Biden administration. So far, Emily Murphy who is the Trump appointee, who leads the agency in charge of beginning the transition process has yet to recognize Biden's win, and released millions of dollars to help Biden's team specifically with matters of national security.

Chris Lu is joining me now, he ran President Obama's transition team back in 2008, he is currently a senior fellow at the University of Virginia's Miller Center. And Chris, just explain to us what normally would be happening today during a normal transfer of power and why that would be so important as this president-elect moves forward. What would normally be happening?

CHRIS LU, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, OBAMA'S 2008 TRANSITION TEAM: Brianna, let me go back to 2008 on election night, the networks called the race for Barack Obama at 11:00 p.m. And within about two hours, a letter was sent from the GSA administrator, I have it right here, a letter was sent to me, saying that he had ascertained that Obama and Biden were the president-elect and vice president-elect, and it provided for government facilities and money and support to that effort. So in any normal transition, we wouldn't even be talking about the GSA administrator. We wouldn't even know who this person was, because this would have automatically happened.

KEILAR: OK, so, in the meantime, once that money, once those facilities are, I guess, sort of unleashed, in a way or handed over to the president-elect, what does that allow them to do? Is there something that Biden and his transition is unable to do right now because of this call that the GSA administrator has made? LU: Well, so there's various things. I mean, one is the facilities.

Right now, the Biden team already has access to a government facility. That's as a result of a legislative change that happened in 2010. They don't have access to several million dollars of federal funding, which would allow them to pay their staff. Beyond that, the broader issue is what access they will have to career officials and access to all of the dozens and dozens of federal agencies whose leadership will turn over next January 20th. That's really critical.

Because that allows the Biden team -- any transition team to do a deep-dive into these agencies. And what's unclear at this moment is whether this lack of cooperation by GSA will extend to all federal agencies.

KEILAR: I also wonder, you know, we know that when there was this transition from Obama to Trump, there was a lack of interest a lot of times on the part of the Trump transition team, trying to understand and do that deep dive into the agencies.

[14:20:00]

Do you think even when it becomes clear that they are going to move forward and cooperate, that they're going to be particularly helpful in a way that really puts the country first?

LU: I hope they are helpful, but I think it's also important to understand that in general, the transition process is overseen by career officials. When I was the outgoing deputy Secretary of Labor, I nominally managed the transition from Obama to Trump, but it really was handled by the career officials who have apparently been doing their work and preparing binders of materials to present. So the question will become, is when -- will those career officials be stopped from doing the work that they've already planned to do by senior political people in those agencies?

KEILAR: Right now, you know, Joe Biden has put in place his COVID panel, his experts on COVID. What else can he do?

LU: Well, I think it's continuing to play behind the scenes as any transition does. It's not only looking for potential personnel for all federal agencies, it's trying to translate the policy proposals that were made during the campaign into potential legislation, into potential regulation. It's also, as I mentioned, it's preparing to take over from these agencies, and it's important to understand why this cooperation is so important. It's not just the pandemic, it's the economic recession, but it's also -- this is a critical moment, you know, in our nation's history. And transitions are often very difficult. They often have national security, Homeland security risks. So it's critical for the president to put the national interests above his political interests. Because this affects more than just him. This affects all the American people.

KEILAR: Yes, Chris Lu, thank you so much. You have expertise not many people have. We appreciate you sharing it with us.

LU: Thank you. KEILAR: Still ahead, I'm going to speak to an attorney who

represented President Bush in the 2000 recount. We'll hear what he makes of the president's claims of election fraud, unfounded claims. Plus, the markets are way up today on this news that Pfizer's vaccine is showing signs of being more than 90 percent effective. Sanjay Gupta's interview with the company's CEO is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:25:00]

KEILAR: Coronavirus cases in the United States are crossing yet another devastating threshold. Ten million documented cases and the five highest days in new cases since the pandemic began in March have all happened here in the past five days. Almost 106,000 new cases were reported yesterday, 43 states are seeing increases in new cases, zero states are reporting decreases in cases. Of all the people being tested in the past search days, more than 8 percent are testing positive.

And with cooler temperatures pushing people indoors, this is something that health experts predicted would happen. Right now, nearly 57,000 Americans are hospitalized with coronavirus, and seven -- 19 states I should say are breaking records for hospitalizations. Some states are ramping up regulations, you saw this in Utah where today a mandate for face coverings in public went into effect. But among the grim numbers, there is a bright spot. And that is that the pharmaceutical giant Pfizer is reporting early data from its vaccine trial that shows it to be more 90 percent effective.

So, let's break all of this down. There were 43,000 study participants, half received the vaccine, half received a placebo. And then of those 43,000, only 94 people became ill with COVID-19, and only 10 percent of those who were sickened were people who had actually received the vaccine. Now, Pfizer could apply for emergency use approval later this month. CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta just talked to Pfizer's CEO about the company's vaccine trial where he says this is a game changer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALBERT BOURLA, CHAIRMAN & CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, PFIZER: Ninety percent is a game changer, 90 percent, now you're hoping to have it too in your war against this pandemic, but could be significantly effective. How long this protection will last is something that we don't know right now, but it's part of the objectives of this study. We will follow up the 44,000 people that they received, they're part of this study for two years. And during this follow-up, obviously, we will be looking also at the durability of the immune responses.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: One of the things that comes up is that obviously, a lot of people who get exposed to this virus recover on their own anyway or have mild disease. What can we say about the protection of this vaccine? If anything, what can we say about protecting against serious COVID disease versus medium, moderate verse mild disease? BOURLA: Both excellent questions. And I think we will know all these

answers when the study finishes. Which by the way, I expect to be completed with 164 cases likely this month. Right now, the independent committee representatives viewing the data have disclosed to us only the efficacy in non-previously infected patients. But we'll have a secondary -- we'll have a second primary points, but is taking also people that -- all people, you have -- I mean, if they were previously infected, we have a secondary points about severe disease, we also have secondary points about efficacy at the 14 days.

[14:30:00]