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Biden Transition; Legal Challenge; Coronavirus Pandemic. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired November 10, 2020 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:31:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, there's a new twist, among many, as President Trump continues to not concede an election which he lost. Several GOP sources are telling CNN that the president's eldest son, Donald Trump Jr. and his girlfriend, Kimberly Guilfoyle, are making moves to expand their influence in the RNC, possibly take it over. The same sources pointing to a potential 2024 comeback presidential run.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: With us now, Anita Kumar, White House Correspondent and Associate Editor for Politico and Ron Brownstein, Senior Editor for the Atlantic. Good morning guys and ladies.

Let me begin with you Ron on the implications of this. OK. There are not any official responses from the RNC or from Don Junior or Kimberly Guilfoyle, I want to make that clear. But Jim Acosta reporting is that they want a big role in the RNC.

And if he president word want to run again in 2020, I guess the question that I would ask you is what impact would that have on Congress? Right. Having to have a continued support of and loyalty to and adherence to the president over the next four years -- will be the next former president over the next four years.

RON BROWNSTEIN, SENIOR EDITOR, THE ATLANTIC: Right. I think, you know, if they, in fact, aren't trying to increase their influence at the RNC it's making tangible what was already clear which is that - the Trump wants to continue to maintain influence over the party, I've said many times, written many times that I believe whether or not he runs in 2024 he will dangle the possibility until the very last hour of the filing deadline in New Hampshire, in Iowa, like Mario Cuomo in 1991 with the plane on the runway to take him to New Hampshire.

Because that is one way to maintain his influence over the party. And you see the influence over the party rather dramatically in the past 24 hours as Republicans align behind this, you know, unfounded claim of the election was stolen. Even though at this point Joe Biden is leading in the three tipping point states of Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania by nearly triple the margin that Hillary -- Donald Trump won them in 2016, Democrats conceded then, we're not seeing that from Republicans now. SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, we learned long ago precedent doesn't matter in

this environment. Anita, there's a lot of understandable nervousness there about moves being made to ignore the results of a democratic election in this country. How serious are the Trump campaign's legal efforts now? How likely are they to have success in your view?

ANITA KUMAR, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT AND ASSOCIATE EDITOR, POLITICO: Yes. I mean, well, you've seen what they've done in the last, you know, week or so, which is they're basically filing new lawsuits every single day. And they have several things they're looking at. But primarily what they're looking at is lawsuits that allege ballots have been changed, or altered, and correct even when they weren't supposed to be and the late arriving ballots that the president keeps talking about, things that came in after election day but still postmarked by election day, which is allowed in certain states so like Pennsylvania.

But what we've seen is they've basically lost pretty much every, you know, legal challenge they've had so far. I don't think that's going to stop them. You know, senior campaign officials are saying they're still planning on more lawsuits. They will probably plan on more recounts if they can afford some of those fees to push for those recounts.

So they don't plan on stopping. I talked to some folks that say this would continue up until December which is, of course, when states need to certify the election results and pick electors and pass it to Congress.

So I think we can expect several more weeks of this, even though as you indicated there's just nothing behind those lawsuits. They may have information, but I think the most important thing to say is they haven't presented any evidence.

So when they go to court and the judge asks for what do you have, they haven't presented any. I'll give you one example in Georgia where it was a small amount, 53 ballots, they said, well, they came in after the deadline, but then they asked what's your information, what's your evidence? And they just had a, you know, Trump supporter, basically someone saying, well, I think they came in. There was no proof.

[10:35:09]

And so really that's where they are. They haven't told the American people what that proof is.

HARLOW: Or the post it that the judge dismissed as hearsay. Staying on the Georgia thread here for a moment, Ron Brownstein, because you just wrote about it, talking about how closely it is right now in terms of being divided between red and blue, obviously huge implications for those two Senate seats come January.

But bigger picture because this is the stuff you're an expert on. I wonder if you agree with former senator and ambassador Carolyn Moseley Braun who told us on the show yesterday that Democrats have to do soul searching and went on to say the south is not lost to Democrats. Is Georgia just Georgia right now? Or is this a bigger picture of a trend to come across the south?

BROWNSTEIN: No. I know, look, I mean, you know, I wrote on Election Day in 2016 that the risk for Democrats was Hillary Clinton would fall, in between the party's past and the party's future. That the coalition in the rust belt would crumble a little bit faster than the coalition in the Sun Belt coalesce and she would lose both by narrow margins. That's what happened.

Joe Biden this time got just on the other side of the line. I mean he held just enough of the coalition to win Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, narrowly, Michigan more comfortably and then to break through in Georgia and Arizona.

It is notable in though, Poppy, that in Georgia and Arizona where Democrats did apparently break through, there were years long organizing efforts from the ground up, from Stacey Abrams in Georgia, from Latino activists in Arizona, whereas in South Carolina and some these other states they try to just bombard at the last minute with television is pretty clear that they're not going to win the Senate race unless you change the underlying partisan balance in the state. And that may require a different kind of strategy the Democrats have been pursuing in some of these sun belt opportunities.

SCIUTTO: Yes, you wonder why the lesson hasn't been learned yet. I mean because in so many cycles you see that the television ad money doesn't move the dial nearly as much as the grass roots registration, get out the vote.

Anita, timing wise we look at those states on the map that are still white, haven't been called either way. I mean Georgia seems to be done counting, granted it's going to head for a recount but in Arizona margin thinning but are we even still waiting for Alaska. When should folks watching expect those races to be called?

KUMAR: Yes, I mean, this is taking a while. Some of the reasons it's taking a while, for example in North Carolina you can turn in your ballot, mail your ballot in much later than election day and it still be counted as long as it's postmarked.

So, it's taking a while, really again until early December. December 8th is not -- is when states have to be done with this process. So that's still weeks away.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

KUMAR: I would suspect the states will come in before that and say something, but again I don't think the president will stop pushing for recounts in some of these states or lawsuits. So it's possible nothing will really be done until early to mid December.

You know, the Trump campaign said yesterday that they were looking at, you know, they're obviously eyeing the recount in Georgia, they're asking for one in Wisconsin and they've also mentioned Arizona and Michigan. So, you know, that takes a good amount of time. So I don't think we'll have anything resolved until December. SCIUTTO: Yes. Notable that the Trump campaign not challenging late

arriving ballots in North Carolina where they maintain a lead, only in Pennsylvania. But anyway, it's politics. Anita Kumar, Ron Brownstein --

HARLOW: It's a good point.

SCIUTTO: -- thanks to both of you.

BROWNSTEIN: Thanks guys.

SCIUTTO: Right now the Supreme Court is hearing arguments over the fate of the Affordable Care Act, known as Obamacare, this impacts millions of Americans who rely on it for their health care in the midst of a pandemic. We're on the story.

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[10:43:17]

HARLOW: Well, right now oral arguments are under way at the Supreme Court over the future of Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act. This is the third major legal challenge to the landmark health care reform legislation, which if it's overturned would leave about 21 million people uninsured. The urban institute also says 15.5 million people who get Obamacare through Medicaid and through the Children's Health Insurance Program or CHIP, they would also lose their coverage.

SCIUTTO: Now, imagine that in the midst of a growing coronavirus pandemic. The question of whether for instance COVID infection would be a preexisting condition, would that deny you health care? These are open questions here, a lot at stake.

CNN's justice correspondent Jessica Schneider is live in Washington. It's early, it's tough. You listen to the calls there, those oral arguments, try to read things. Any early takeaways so far?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the early takeaways is that they're all going through this right now on the procedural level. We've heard from all the justices. Of course , all eyes on Amy Coney Barrett as the newest justice.

The procedural issues here largely whether the right claim was brought here challenging the Affordable Care Act and whether Republican officials even have standing to bring this case. In fact, Chief Justice John Roberts, he focused on the standing issue for his questionings since the Democrats defending the Affordable Care Act are arguing that Republicans and the Trump administration, they don't have the right standing, the injury in this case. Because there was no injury since the penalty for not buying insurance has been eliminated and is now zero dollars, so as such they want the lawsuit thrown out.

Chief justice John Roberts focused on that. And conservative Justice Clarence Thomas also focused on standing, actually sounding skeptical that a zero dollar penalty eliminates any injury. He made this COVID analogy in the process. [10:45:01]

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CLARENCE THOMAS, ASSOCIATE JUSTICE: If putting the chief justices question in today's terms, I assume that in most places there is no penalty for wearing a face mask -- or a mask during COVID, but there is some degree of a program if one does not wear it in certain settings. What if someone violates that command? Let's say in similar terms to the mandate here, but no penalty. Would they have standing to challenge the mandate to wear a mask?

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SCHNEIDER: But all eyes really over the next 90 minutes as the arguments continue, they'll likely be on the newest justice, Amy Coney Barrett, as well as President Trump's two other picks, justices Gorsuch and Kavanaugh.

You know, if the chief justice were once again side with the liberals to uphold the Affordable Care Act, any of those three justices could be the crucial fifth vote to uphold it or strike it down. So, you know, if the court allows this case to proceed, it all does come down to the individual mandate. It's something the chief justice upheld as a tax in 2012, but now that Congress has reduced the penalty for not buying insurance to zero dollars, the argument from the Trump administration is that putting forward, you know, zero dollars means there's no taxed and that the end of the mandate is therefore unconstitutional.

So Jim and Poppy, right before I came up to do the live shot with you guys I heard from Amy Coney Barrett and she was focused on exactly that issue. She talked about it in her confirmation hearing, the Jenga idea of how many pieces can you pull out before the whole thing falls. So it seems like that's where she'll focused.

You know, if Congress did zero out the penalty and if that means it's no longer a tax, can that part of the law be struck down without the entire law falling. That's the crux of the argument here.

HARLOW: You remember the focus of the questioning in her confirmation hearing was on her position on the ACA because of previous writings. She said at one point I assure you I am not hostile to the ACA. It's a big day for sure. Jess, thank you very much.

SCHNEIDER: Thanks.

HARLOW: The State of Texas is on the verge of becoming the first state to surpass 1 million coronavirus cases in that state alone. Not one state right now in the U.S. is seeing a decline in cases. We'll take you to El Paso next.

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[10:51:57] HARLOW: Welcome back. So the good news is, the Pfizer vaccine for COVID-19 looks really promising, but do not let this positive news give you a false sense of security.

SCIUTTO: Yes, there's time here. Time to get it around the country so that everybody can take it, and there are simple steps all of us can take in the meantime to minimize the spread of this, including wearing that mask, because it works. And we have to live with it a little bit longer. CNN's Omar Jimenez, he's in El Paso, Texas, a hot spot right now for rising COVID-19 infections. What are you seeing there? What is it telling us?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim and Poppy, to give you an idea of how significantly affected El Paso is, when you look at the total population here compared with the little more than 27,000 active cases we are currently seeing, that comes out to just a little over one in every 30 people here in El Paso currently has COVID-19.

It's not just cases. Hospitalizations we are seeing that at record levels as well as people have brought in mobile morgues to keep up with the number of deaths. And then across the country we saw thousands take to the streets, packed in celebrating Joe Biden's victory, but this week it's back to reality.

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JIMENEZ (voice-over): The United States surpassing 10 million confirmed coronavirus cases since the start of the pandemic. One million of those cases reported in just the last 10 days.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: And now, as you see, we're well over 100,000 and that is really something that is unfortunate. Having said that, it is not too late to turn that around.

JIMENEZ: On Monday, the U.S. saw more than 111,000 new cases and 44 states are seeing upticks in the number of cases.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: We're in, essentially, a national sort of state of exponential growth. I think that, you know, we are going to continue to go up in terms of the newly diagnosed infections, as well as people who need to be hospitalized. And sadly people who will die.

JIMENEZ: The surge is reaching every corner of the nation. In the Midwest cases and number of patients hospitalized with the virus continues to rise. At least 16 states across the country are seeing record hospitalizations, including Ohio, which saw its worst week since the pandemic began.

Ohio medical officials warning that hospitals are becoming overwhelmed due to the recent uptick. That surge also felt in North Dakota where the governor announced that asymptomatic COVID positive health care workers are now allowed to work in COVID units of licensed healthcare facilities as hospitals face staffing shortages. GOV. DOUG BURGUM (R-ND): We could be facing a situation in our state

in the next two to three weeks where we would be severely constrained on hospital capacity. Some parts of the states we're already seeing that.

JIMENEZ: In New York City the positivity rate has increased to well over 2 percent for the first time in months. Mayor Bill de Blasio issued this warning.

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D), NEW YORK CITY, NY: Now unfortunately we're seeing a real growth in the positivity rate in the city and that is dangerous. So we have one last chance to stop a second wave.

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JIMENEZ: And here in El Paso, nearly 900 new coronavirus cases were reported on Monday and the city currently has a test positivity rate of over 20 percent. More than 1,000 patients are hospitalized with the virus and just over 300 of those are in the ICU.

The city now has six mobile morgues and is asking for four more. El Paso is currently under a two-week shutdown that is set to expire on Wednesday. The county judge, though, says he feels he'll need to extend the shutdown.

JUDGE RICARDO A. SAMANIEGO, EL PASO COUNTY: The hospitals are still not manageable. We're having an inability to handle fatalities. It leaves me no choice but to lean towards an extension of the order.

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HARLOW: Well, our thanks to Omar Jimenez for that important reporting. We'll keep a very close eye on Texas, of course. Thanks for joining us. I'm Poppy Harlow.

SCIUTTO: I'm Jim Sciutto, "Newsroom" with John King starts after a short break.

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