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Cuomo Prime Time
Trump's DHS: "No Evidence That Any Voting System Deleted Or Lost Votes"; Mary Trump Speaks Out About Her Uncle, President Trump; Georgia Launches Hand Recount Despite No Evidence Of Fraud. Aired 9- 10p ET
Aired November 12, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: News continues right now. Want to hand it over to Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME." Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: Great conversation, great to listen to. Thank you, as always, Anderson.
I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.
I really do want you to remember those in Congress who say there are irregularities in voting but they show no proof. And no, this is not about shaming Trump supporters. Don't fall for that. This is about shaming those who want to keep this country from coming together, Left, Right, and reasonable.
And these people in Congress are compromising you for their own political convenience. In the process, they are delaying much-needed help for too many. People are sick and starving in this country, and they know it.
Why are they surrendering the needs of the many for the needs of one? Well, we learned a little bit more about why, tonight.
Maggie Haberman says Republicans may be so afraid because "Mr. Trump is talking seriously about announcing that he is planning to run again in 2024, aware that whether he actually does it or not, it will freeze an already-crowded field of possible Republican candidates. And, Republicans say, it will keep the wide support he showed even in defeat and could guarantee a lucrative book deal or speaking fees."
Sources tell CNN they expect Trump to tease a 2024 run when he does finally acknowledge the results. Those sources expect Trump to dismiss the 2020 race as a fraud with no proof and hinting "I'll be back."
Sure, this may all work out well for him. But the rest of the Republicans are submarining your democracy in the process. This is not "America first." It is "Trump first and only." You need more proof?
Just today the CISA, that's the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, part of Homeland Security, Trump's own administration obviously, says in a new statement, in boldface, "There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised."
Why won't the cronies in Congress own that? Why won't they put you first instead of Trump? Together as ever as one, no matter, who you voted for, whether you voted at all, this has to be about us. It's our only way through.
And those who should be serving us, doing their job, but they're only serving their own dilatory druthers. Every day, they talk about Trump's cause, they abandon your own.
They're not even talking about, let alone acting on the worst pandemic numbers to date. There's nothing else to do? There's nothing to do differently? We're dying at a faster rate and they're doing less.
They promised stimulus, post-election. Remember that? Where is it? 709,000 more Americans just filed for unemployment, first time. More people are on food lines than at any time since the Great Depression. What happened to "America First?"
Mr. McConnell, Leader of the Senate, he won't answer if Biden should get classified briefings, even though he's entitled to them as the President-Elect, and no movement for stimulus by him.
Senate Majority Whip John Thune says "Yes, give Biden the briefings" but only because "Makes sense to prepare for all contingencies." Look, taking office after being elected president is not a contingency. It's called democracy. And all of those undermining it know it.
"There are questions," they say. Based on what? Where is the proof? If questions were enough, Trump would have been removed, not just impeached. And even more of his minions would be exchanging their names for numbers.
Even those who appear to step up, like Senator Lankford, who did publicly voice support for Biden getting briefs, quickly gets on bended knee.
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SEN. JAMES LANKFORD (R-OK): We don't know yet. But we know there are issues. So, allow the legal process to go through, allow the hand recount to happen in Georgia. And once we get all past that, then we'll know who the actual winner is. But at this point, we don't know.
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CUOMO: Shame on him! Look how different he is when he doesn't know that the camera's on.
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LANKFORD: I believe that verse, whether President Obama got elected, whether President Trump got elected, whether now Vice President - now President-Elect Joe Biden gets elected.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CUOMO: Ah! In God's house, he'll tell the truth! Good you still keep that clear! And guess what? Maybe he doesn't keep it clear. You know what happened when that tape came out? He denied saying it. It's on tape. How stupid do they think you are?
I can keep exposing the hypocrisy. But wouldn't it just be better for them to just do their damn jobs?
[21:05:00]
They want you to think votes for Trump were fraudulent, and yet, they also want you to think that all the votes for Congress on the same ballots are OK. All the wins for Republicans, all the state legislative wins, "They're good." But the Trump ones, "Oh I don't know."
Once people believe in absurdities, they are capable of atrocities. Voltaire was right. And these Trumpets are wrong.
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STEVE DOOCY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR, "FOX & FRIENDS": This is the last chance for the sore losers on the Left to steal the election.
Brian, they're saying it's rigged. But they have absolutely no evidence that it's rigged.
BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR, "FOX & FRIENDS": I don't think we should give them the time of day. Also he's about to win. We know it's a matter of time. About to win Michigan officially. So, that would put Donald Trump over the top, over 300 electoral votes. It was a blowout. It was a blowout.
AINSLEY EARHARDT, FOX NEWS ANCHOR, "FOX & FRIENDS": Well.
KILMEADE: I just wonder what these Democrats are doing, trying to convince their electoral representatives not to vote the way the people wanted.
DOOCY: There are six of them.
KILMEADE: Now there's these states "Let's have a recount."
TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST, "TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT": It's a crisis when the people running your democracy don't believe in democracy.
JEANINE PIRRO, FOX NEWS HOST: We believe in free speech. We believe in accepting winners and not being sore losers.
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST, "HANNITY": They have no actual proof of voter fraud or any wrongdoing. And both the White House and the Wisconsin Elections Commission have both said zero evidence whatsoever.
Now, what happened to the peaceful transition of power and supporting the incoming administration? (END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: You seriously can't make it up. You change Trump for Biden, and the Rs for the Ds, and they're saying the exact opposite now of what they said then, with the exact same basis of proof. Zero! It's as obvious as it is ugly.
Now, President Obama, who welcomed Trump to the White House, right after his victory in 2016, he nailed it. He nailed what's going on today. Listen.
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BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They appear to be motivated in part because the President doesn't like to lose and never admits loss.
I'm more troubled by the fact that other Republican officials who clearly know better are going along with this, are humoring him in this fashion. It is one more step in delegitimizing not just the incoming Biden administration, but democracy generally. And that's a dangerous path.
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CUOMO: The question becomes will our institutions rise above the rabble? Well, here's one good nod.
The Joint Chiefs of Staff Chair just said something that really shouldn't have to be said at all, but maybe it does. And he said it on Veterans Day, of all days, while Trump is upending the Pentagon to fill it with loyalists.
Listen to this.
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GEN MARK MILLEY, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: We are unique among armies. We are unique among militaries. We do not take an oath to a king or a queen, a tyrant or a dictator. We do not take an oath to an individual. No, we do not take an oath to a country, a tribe, or religion. We take an oath to the Constitution.
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CUOMO: Thank god for that! At least they still seem to be keeping the priorities straight.
But how sad, that the Chair of the Joint Chiefs is a stand-out for saying the obvious? Doesn't it just expose what is not being said by those in power right now? This is America, lest we forget.
Not long ago, the Head Prosecutor at Trump's impeachment trial told Republicans, "If you find the courage to stand up to him, to speak the awful truth, to his rank falsehood, your place will be among the Davids, who took on Goliath, if only you will say "Enough." That was Chairman and Congressman Adam Schiff, Chairman of the House Intel Committee. He joins us now.
Welcome back to PRIME TIME.
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Thank you, Chris.
CUOMO: So, you foresaw something like this. But what do you make of so many members of the Republican Party in your ranks in Congress holding up a baseless assessment of this election?
SCHIFF: Well, it's shameless and it does, as President Obama said, put us on a very dangerous path. But it's the culmination of four years of this.
The President was really only able to attack, for example, the independence of the Justice Department because the Republicans stood mute or went along with it.
He was only able to violate the Hatch Act and host a Convention on the White House grounds because the Republicans went along with it.
He was only able to fire Inspector Generals or punish whistleblowers or any number of acts - anti-democratic acts of last four years because the Republicans went along with it.
And now, most dangerously, they're going along with the big lie about the election we just had.
[21:10:00]
And where does it end, Chris? You might say, "Well, it will hopefully end with the Georgia special election because right now they don't want to piss off the President and risk retribution in Georgia."
But it won't end there either because as long as he's hanging out the prospect that he might run, or even if he doesn't run in four years, he might bestow the crown on someone else, they're going to continue to debase themselves and, with it, to debase our democracy.
CUOMO: Has anybody come up to you in private and said "Hold your horses. I heard some things that you're going to want to have vetted about this election as well?" Has anybody offered you anything?
SCHIFF: No. No. And I mean, look at the - and you alluded to it earlier, but the incredible statement coming out of the Department of Homeland Security, that CISA Agency within Homeland, clear as day, basically saying there's none of this massive fraud in terms of this particular election system that the President is alleging. Basically you have the Department of Homeland Security saying, in
effect, there's nothing truthful about what the President has just said.
I give them credit for courage. That's a gutsy thing to do. But it's the right thing to do. There ought to be more people in Congress, within the Executive branch as well, to show that kind of courage. CUOMO: So, let's deal with the "What nows" questions. What now in terms of what can you guys do? Doesn't look like much.
What now in terms of what this means for your ability to get any stimulus relief going or any kind of different approach to the pandemic that is eating us alive. What does this mean for all these problems?
SCHIFF: Well, I think that we can because we'll have to compartmentalize the need to get a relief bill passed. It just can't wait. It can't wait until we have a new president sworn in.
There are millions of businesses teetering on the edge, many of which will not be there in January, if we don't act and replenish the PPP program, millions of people, whose employment is running out or has already run out who are hanging by a financial thread.
Schools that need help, cities and states that need help, we need to get this done. I have a little bit more optimism now that the election is over because the problem has been this splits the Republican conference in the Senate.
Mitch McConnell didn't want to bring up a relief package that would divide his members until the election was over. Now, he still has some of that same perverse incentive because the Georgia special isn't over. But he sounds like he is more receptive to actually getting something done than before. And we need to make it so, because it just can't wait.
CUOMO: Give me a little confidence in that optimism because to me it looks like you guys are into Obama redux where Mitch and the gang are going to just lock it up, even though you have the House, and he'll do what he did to Obama, you know?
"No judges for this cat. We're going to hold up all of his appointments and he's not going to get anything done here unless we want it. We're still in control because they have one House of the Congress."
SCHIFF: Look, certainly, I think that's where Kevin McCarthy is coming from, and that is, see if we can prevent them from governing, and then try to argue for a takeover of the Congress because they didn't govern.
That's what they did during the Obama administration. It's likely what McCarthy is going to do and maybe McConnell as well.
But here, Chris, this is a reason for optimism. If there was ever a President, positioned to break the impasse, it's Joe Biden. He's had decades of experience working with the Congress. I don't think there's anyone who can work it better.
He has relationships in the Senate. He knows how to get deals done. Unlike Donald Trump, who was a good marketer but a terrible deal- maker, Joe Biden actually knows how to get deals done. So, that should be reason for optimism. And I think the American people are going to need to make it plain to Mitch McConnell and Kevin McCarthy that if they don't come to the table, they are going to pay an awful price in Georgia and in the rest of the country in the midterms.
CUOMO: Mixed message on that score, right?
I mean the Republicans did well on the Congressional side, and really well on the state legislative side. And Biden was there for both terms with Obama. He didn't get any big deals done. The only big thing that they got done, which was big, the ACA, was a cram-down.
SCHIFF: Well that - you're right. That was big. And, as a result, tens of millions of people have healthcare that wouldn't have it otherwise. But--
CUOMO: But it wasn't a deal.
SCHIFF: It wasn't a deal. No, you're right. There were deals that were made. That was, as you say, something that had to be muscled through the Congress. But look, I think that Joe Biden has the personal skills. I also think that he's going to have the country rooting for him to succeed because they need the help.
[21:15:00]
I mean, look at the - the hospitals are more, full than ever with COVID patients. People are dying in record numbers. The country sees that. You can't be blind to that. People want to put this pandemic behind them and get the economy fully reopen again. And we know we can't do that until we defeat the virus.
So, I think that's a perilous thing to get in the way of. Joe Biden is going to try to defeat this thing and we can do this. The country has overcome bigger challenges in the past. And I think if Mitch McConnell and Kevin McCarthy are nothing but an obstacle the country will see that.
CUOMO: I just wonder if they don't benefit perversely from their efforts on the President's coattails of playing down the pandemic so that their constituents aren't as worried about it as yours are, even when they hear the statistics.
And now, you've got this time period, this period, where we don't know what's going to happen, where the President is on like a revenge tour. He's shifting up all these seats in the Pentagon. Gina Haspel now in the Intelligence agencies seems like maybe she could be rush for revenge.
Why do you think that's happening, and what do you think it could mean about what else this President will do in his time?
SCHIFF: Well, I think a big part of it is just plain pettiness and the desire to retaliate against his perceived enemies. And the President doesn't need much more of a reason than that. That is who he is. He is nothing if not vindictive. But perhaps equally dangerous are the people that he is replacing these agency heads with. And these are unqualified partisan hacks that really don't have the policy chops, and they're not being put in there for that reason.
And if we're not - if we're not careful, they could create foreign policy crises in waiting for the new administration. And of course Donald Trump wouldn't care anything about that.
One of the other points we emphasized, you brought up the trial at the beginning of the segment, in the trial is the one thing you can rely on with Donald Trump is he will do what's in his personal interest. He doesn't care what it means to the country.
And if he can sabotage the next administration, he will do it. If he can retaliate against his enemies, he will do it. If he can stay in office, and essentially vacate the election, he will do it. But he won't be able to. He won't be able to.
And we just have to hope and pray, as you say, that a few more Republicans find their courage, and their voice, and remind themselves what they ran for office for, when they ran for office so long ago. It certainly wasn't to deny a peaceful transition of power.
CUOMO: I mean, you add the word "More." Right now, we're just looking for a few Republicans, period, to just acknowledge this. Because Trump can't do it on his own. He can play with the appointments.
But that's why I believe that the finger of blame and shame should be pointed at the Republicans in Congress, who are allowing this and pretending that this facade, this farce has some legitimacy to it.
And I don't know how it ends, at least before like Thanksgiving. I mean, what's the chance that anybody gets any help standing on food lines, the 700,000-plus that just filed for unemployment, before Thanksgiving?
SCHIFF: Chris, it's just got to end. We have got to get the relief done. We need to go into session, and stay in session, until we get it done.
One thing that does also give me optimism is we need to pass a bill to keep the government open. No one is going to want a shutdown of the government right now. And as we negotiate the package, to keep the government open, we will be negotiating the package to help the American people. And it's my hope and, to be optimistic, my expectation that we will do both.
CUOMO: Well, look, as always, I hope you're right, and I'm wrong, because we need - the people need help. I mean this is really beyond Left and Right. This is just about what's reasonable. So hopefully, McConnell does act on the instincts that you're saying may be present.
Congressman Adam Schiff, thank you for your perspective, and your optimism.
SCHIFF: Thanks, Chris.
CUOMO: All right. Be well.
Now, the current president, Donald Trump, it's not that he's never lost. It's that he's never lost and not been bailed out before, right? Daddy was always there. And then the banks were on the hook so the banks were there. So, is that why he's risking our democracy for his own ego, because he just doesn't know any other way?
Good question! I don't know the answer. You know who might? Mary Trump. Now, she says I'm focusing on the wrong thing. It isn't, understanding what he's done that matters, but what she fears he may still do.
Valuable insight, next.
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CUOMO: So, here's the latest state of play. Leaders from both parties in states across the country have said the election was good. There's been no proof of anything that could change the count and no court has found differently. So, if it's not about the facts, what is Trump doing here?
His only niece is Mary Trump, Psychologist and Author of a best-seller on how the Trump family created who she calls "The world's most dangerous man." The "Too Much and Never Enough" Author joins us now.
It's good to see you, Mary.
MARY TRUMP, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S NIECE, AUTHOR, "TOO MUCH AND NEVER ENOUGH": Great to be here, Chris. Thanks.
CUOMO: Why is he doing this? You call it "An attempted coup." Really?
[21:25:00]
TRUMP: Well, it is, functionally, not because Donald is behaving like a recalcitrant brat but because his enablers are allowing him to continue to sow doubt about a perfectly legitimate election.
They're continuing to allow him to prevent a smooth transition to the next administration. And they're continuing to allow him to make it seem as if the election of President-Elect Biden was illegitimate somehow.
So, it is - I don't believe it's going to be successful. But we cannot underestimate the damage that's being done to American democracy and the people's faith in our elections going forward.
CUOMO: You say psychologically, you don't believe your uncle is able to handle this situation or handle losing. How so?
TRUMP: In my family, at least certainly according to my grandfather, whose opinion was the only one that mattered, the worst thing you could be was a loser. Being a loser made you weak. Being a loser made you unworthy.
And, as you said earlier, for the first time in his life, Donald is in a situation he cannot get out of. He's never - as far as I'm concerned, he's never won anything legitimately in his life.
But being on the winning side of things has always been so important to him that he's willing to lie, cheat, steal, use other people's money, power, and influence to get the win. That can't happen now. So, he is in a state of terror. He's in a state of rage. And he's in a state of total helplessness right now.
CUOMO: Does it matter that the kids are reportedly divided, that the sons are on one side, and that Jared Kushner, the son-in-law, and Ivanka are saying "No, this is over," although I hear Kushner is actually not saying "It's over."
But reporting aside, does that divide matter in the mind of Trump?
TRUMP: No, I don't think it does. I don't think there's anybody who can talk him down, quite honestly, because this has been allowed to go on for way too long.
There are two factors that I think are more important. One, the fact that he lost decisively but the Republican Party, by contrast, did fairly well.
CUOMO: Yes.
TRUMP: They certainly beat expectations in this election. So Donald can't blame anybody but himself for the loss.
And the other equally or perhaps more important factor is that we have Republican leadership, in fact it seems like almost the entire Republican Party, as you and Congressman Schiff just said, continuing to go along with this charade, which only fuels Donald's need for revenge and his need to play this out as long as possible.
CUOMO: Yes, see, that's what I don't think they get. I get that they're scared of him. I get that, for the special elections in Georgia, they don't want to alienate the base.
I get that some of them have this crazed notion that they can be the next Trump. I don't think they get why he has successfully attached himself to the anger and animus of so many people in this country in a way they'll never represent.
But I think that they may be underestimating what their license, what their enabling may actually allow your uncle to do. What do you think he is capable of that they may not be imagining?
TRUMP: Well, this is - this is the awful part of this. He's capable of anything, right? However, he should have been rendered completely irrelevant by now.
Whether he concedes or not, it doesn't matter. It's up to the Republicans to say "It's over, we're moving on." As long as they don't do that, they continue to give him power. They continue to give him the ability to rile up his base, and other people, who voted for him. It's an incredibly dangerous situation.
As usual, as you say, they're making an incredible miscalculation here by pretending that they can control this monster that they're unleashing upon us, you know? So, it's a really dangerous situation.
And I think Mitch McConnell, in particular, is focused on his short- term needs, which of course, is, the two special elections for Senate in Georgia. And, you know, if he continues to allow this, to go on, between now and January 6, we're going to be in a much more difficult position, in a month and a half.
CUOMO: You think your uncle would run again?
TRUMP: Sorry.
CUOMO: You think - you don't even want to contemplate?
TRUMP: No.
CUOMO: Do you think that he would run again? He can.
TRUMP: Yes, he can. Thank you, Grover Cleveland.
[21:30:00]
No. First of all, that would - and I know that he's in a way, he said that he would, which is weird because that's sort of conceding loss now. But I think that was floated initially as a way to appease him and assuage his ego.
But he will never put himself in a position where he can lose like this again, first of all. Secondly, it would mean for four years that he is playing essentially a supporting role, which will be very difficult for him to sustain.
And, most importantly, in four years, he will be the same age Joe Biden is now. However, Donald is a very unhealthy person. He has a terrible diet. He doesn't exercise. And he has psychological disorders that continue to go untreated. So, I don't even imagine that he'll be able to run in four years. Plus
the fact of course he may be looking at serious charges being brought against him.
CUOMO: Do you think he has the ability to - I must say, he may not look that healthy, but he did beat COVID pretty quickly. Do you think he has the ability to tell his supporters "Don't just donate to me, fight for me. Resist! Come out! Don't let them do this."
Do you think he has that in him? He's never done that before. I guess he hasn't had to. But - or do you think that's a bridge too far even for him?
TRUMP: First of all, there is no bridge too far.
Think about it this way. He said nothing publicly for the last six days. Six service members died in a helicopter crash. He has not addressed that. He was late to a Veterans Day memorial, stayed for six minutes, and then made a flashy commercial about it.
And COVID-19 is ravaging our country. He's doing absolutely nothing about any of this. Americans are dying every day because of his willful inaction, which we need to be - which needs to be seen in that light. This is willful. He's doing nothing to contain the virus. It's going to get so much worse than it already is.
So, do we seriously think that he wouldn't take it a step farther? He does not care about the American people unless they are of service to him. He'll do whatever he feels he needs to do as long as the Republicans continue to allow it.
CUOMO: Nothing your uncle's doing is a surprise, but it sure is surprising that his entire Party is following along. And I just hope they understand they're going to own this. That's why I keep telling people to remember them. Your uncle's no surprise.
TRUMP: Yes.
CUOMO: What they're doing is going to stay with them. Mary Trump, thank you for your insight.
TRUMP: I agree.
CUOMO: Appreciate it.
TRUMP: Thank you so much.
CUOMO: All right, so let's go from the macro to the micro. Georgia is very much in the crosshairs, right? Two fronts, why?
Well, the runoff races are going to determine control of the Senate. Republicans have to have an advantage there, not just by the margins you see now but the politics of the state. What happened with Biden was very unusual. Now there's also another front. There is a recount of the presidential race that's going to have there. The GOP Lieutenant Governor says the race wasn't fraudulent. So, why are they doing a recount?
Let's get some clarity from him, next.
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CUOMO: Six days to recount almost 5 million ballots by hand. That's the situation in Georgia. The interesting question is why do it? It seems the only person who gets full satisfaction from this might be the current president.
The work is also going to fall on the backs of some exhausted Ameri- CANs, them being the election workers, who are coming off almost a month of marathon shifts.
Big effort paid for with tax dollars, but is it necessary? Nobody expects any of it to matter. The President-Elect leads by more than 14,000 votes there. He holds well over 270 electoral votes even without Georgia.
Now, Geoff Duncan is the State's Republican Lieutenant Governor, and he joins us tonight.
Thank you for doing it, Sir.
LT GOV GEOFF DUNCAN, (R) GEORGIA: Absolutely. Great to be with you.
CUOMO: Help me understand the state of play.
The law there says equal to or less than 0.5 percent of a percentage point, a candidate can ask for an audit. And then it is done by the machines, recounting, or you can have a select audit, where you sample individual ballots from different areas, just to spot-check.
You instead are doing a full recount by hand. Why?
DUNCAN: Well, our State's right in the middle of the process, like every other state right now, counting every legal ballot out there. We've got 159 counties and, obviously, the state's working with each and every one of them. Our Secretary of State - it's actually two processes, Chris. There is the process of the audit, which is a risk audit. And the Secretary of State made the decision to audit the presidential race, and based on the numbers and the algorithms and whatnot, there he, decided to audit the entire 5 million votes.
Then separate from that is the candidates are able to ask for a recount. And so, that would be a separate process.
In the midst of it, I think the Secretary of State stated today that the risk audit would start on Friday and end on Wednesday. And certainly, I see it as an advantage for us. We're going to be able to gain the confidence of 11 million Georgians and nearly 5 million people who voted in the recent election.
CUOMO: Governor, do you have a reason - and I know it's Lieutenant Governor but I was raised by a Lieutenant Governor, and a Governor, and then--
DUNCAN: You can call me Geoff.
CUOMO: No, no, no. I respect the title. Lieutenant Governor and Governor, both Governor, that's why I say it.
Governor, do you have any reason to believe that the count is off?
DUNCAN: Well, we continue to work very closely with our Attorney General Chris Carr, with our Secretary of State's office, Brad Raffensperger. They have all the resources ready and available to investigate.
Certainly, they're continuing to field some calls. There are some things out there. I think we've heard some earlier reports about potentially some deceased individuals, and certainly some issues out there and they continue to investigate those.
[21:40:00]
At this time, I've not seen any sort of systemic irregularities, or any sort of systemic issues, but there's still time. And certainly, this audit is out there to make sure that they don't exist.
CUOMO: Right.
DUNCAN: Because, at the end of the day, look, this is a bipartisan goal here for all of us. We want this election to be fair and legal, and every legal vote to be counted. And certainly, we all champion that process here in Georgia.
CUOMO: Right. But usually you're not waiting for proof of a problem. You're acting if there is proof of a problem, which you say you haven't seen any substantial or systemic issue here.
And yet, you're doing a full recount, which isn't even called for by law. It seems like you're going an extra mile to make somebody happy. Is that a wrong assertion? DUNCAN: Yes, I think it is. The law actually calls for a risk audit, and they've all gotten in the room together, and realized that the risk audit--
CUOMO: But a risk audit isn't the entire count.
DUNCAN: Well there--
CUOMO: Am I correct?
DUNCAN: Actually, the risk audit is described to me, would require, because of the statistical closeness of the race, would require several million. And so, it would take so much time to pull out several million votes as opposed to just being able to go through the six-day period of time and count the full 5 million.
So, I believe other folks much smarter than me have decided that that was the best way, most efficient way forward to take the risk audit.
CUOMO: So, a risk-limiting audit winds up being the same thing as a full recount even though in the state law it describes it as a partial process just to kind of take the temperature of what's out there, you know, a sampling, as opposed to a full recount?
DUNCAN: Well, I believe the secondary process is a candidate is allowed to ask for that recount because of the half--
CUOMO: That's a machine recount.
DUNCAN: That's correct. So look, we've got a lot of opportunities here to earn the confidence of Georgians. And certainly, we're going to be proud of our effort as we put forward.
CUOMO: If Biden had said "I think I won by more, I want you to recount all the votes," would you have done it?
DUNCAN: Yes, look, I think that - he has that legal right. Chris, look, just because the guy I voted for isn't ahead right now doesn't mean my job description changes, right?
And so, my job is to go to work every day, and follow the letter of the law. And certainly that's what I'm going to take seriously, and I know that our Secretary of State, Attorney General, and our election officers are doing exactly that.
It is absolutely imperative for us to earn the confidence of our Georgian voters, and also the candidates. Anybody who's put their name on the ballot deserves the right to have every legal vote counted. And that's the process we're right in the middle of doing right now.
CUOMO: How do you feel about what's happening? Do you believe that Joe Biden is the President-Elect?
DUNCAN: Look, I think those terms are left with the media. My job is to count the votes and to make sure we certify a fair legal election here in Georgia. And to make it even more complicated, I heard you mention on the lead-in was, you know, we also have the balance of the Senate is sitting here in Georgia.
CUOMO: Right.
DUNCAN: And so, look, obviously a lot going on here. And certainly, I want to make sure, as a Republican, I want to make sure I focus hard on trying to get David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler back into the Senate to represent--
CUOMO: They called for the Secretary of State to step down because they didn't like that the election was the way it was. You agree with that?
DUNCAN: Yes - well, I haven't talked to them yet. I've worked very closely with the Secretary of State's office. He's been - he's been great to work with. At this point, there--
CUOMO: So, he shouldn't step down?
DUNCAN: --they're trying to (ph) communicate it very well to us. Well, certainly I haven't seen any challenges on my end. And he's made it very clear he's not stepping down. So I think he's--
CUOMO: Yes. I read his statement.
DUNCAN: --he's taking care of that point.
CUOMO: Just one other thing, Governor, and I appreciate your time.
DUNCAN: Yes.
CUOMO: You do know that President-Elect is not a media creation. It is not a term that we use. It is a term of art within our constitutional democracy. You know that, right that President-Elect matters?
DUNCAN: Well - look, I'll let you - I'll let you take that term. At this point, I'm going to focus on the election. But Chris, I will say this.
CUOMO: So, you don't use the term President-Elect?
DUNCAN: Whoever--
CUOMO: I feel like you're ducking the question.
DUNCAN: Well I certainly would.
CUOMO: I don't know why.
DUNCAN: No. So, if you let me answer, Chris?
CUOMO: Go ahead.
DUNCAN: I'll tell you this. When we see our certification here in Georgia, and when we watch the other states, certify, I'll be proud to call whoever is out there President-Elect because that's what America has voted for and certainly we still have a process to work forward. CUOMO: Hmm! Did you wait in 2016 when Trump won or did you call him President-Elect before the certification?
DUNCAN: I can't remember back that far. That's 2016.
CUOMO: Really? You're a young man. You should be able to remember that far.
DUNCAN: I think - I think--
CUOMO: But a lot has changed since 2016, I'll give you that.
DUNCAN: I didn't - I didn't get elected till 2018.
CUOMO: But I'll give you that much. A lot has changed since then. Lieutenant Governor, I appreciate your candor. I don't mean to be cute. Thank you.
DUNCAN: No. No, you're fine. Thank you.
CUOMO: This is a very serious situation, and I appreciate you doing it. Lieutenant Governor Geoff Duncan, good luck to you there. I hope everything is accurate and to everyone's satisfaction.
DUNCAN: Thank you.
CUOMO: Be well.
All right, now, media or not, Joe Biden is President-Elect. It's not because I say so. It's not that the media called it. This is the way that we do it in every election, pending certification, of course.
Nobody's saying "Don't certify it." We're saying "Don't suggest that it's screwed up without proof." That's all. And that's why careful conversations like that are necessary, because this is a strange situation.
So, how do we get out of this pandemic? That's a puzzle because that's what's waiting right now. We're going to bring in someone hard at work on it, a frontline member of President-Elect Biden's new Coronavirus Task Force.
How do they see the problem? What do they think should be being done that hasn't been done before them? And when will that happen? Next.
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CUOMO: All right. Assuming the new Administration comes in, sooner rather than later or at least as constitutionally directed, let's get the basics. COVID is real. COVID is bad. And yes, COVID is now real bad.
It is exploding across the United States at a level we have not seen before. And yet, our President has literally said nothing about it turning for the worse. He's literally said nothing about the crisis at all since the election. And he wonders why he lost?
His loss isn't the problem. It's 1,000 lives a day that are being lost. That's the problem. The overall death toll stands at more than 242,000.
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You'll hear people say, "Yes, but as a percentage of cases, we're doing better than most." Just because we've gotten better at keeping people alive doesn't mean they come out OK. Just because we have more medicines and treatments doesn't mean it's OK.
The CDC model projects now that more than 39,000 people could die in the next three weeks. Another model used by the White House says the overall death toll could exceed 400,000 within the next four months. You think you can say that and "It is what it is" comfortably? President did!
The absence of leadership is a problem here. It turned the likelihood of a dark winter into a certainty. The Biden Administration knows that. They will inherit it. The question is can they do better?
Dr. Robert Rodriguez is a member of Biden's Coronavirus Task Force and an Emergency Care Physician. He joins us now.
Doc, thank you.
DR. ROBERT RODRIGUEZ, MEMBER, PRESIDENT-ELECT BIDEN'S COVID-19 ADVISORY BOARD, EMERGENCY MEDICINE PHYSICIAN: Great to be here, Chris.
CUOMO: Congratulations. Let me ask you, when you look at the problem, what are you hearing from the group in terms of group approach, and what needs to be different?
RODRIGUEZ: Well, Chris, the first step is taking it seriously. And this team is a testament to the fact that President-Elect Biden, Vice President-elect Harris are locked in on this.
Addressing the COVID-19 pandemic is their number one priority. And they've put this team together to hit the ground running such that, on day one, we're going to turn this thing around, and we're going to put the country on a path to turn this thing around. And I'm fully confident, Chris, that towards the end of January,
Americans are going to give a sigh of relief, and finally feel - start to feel safe again.
CUOMO: Why that might happen is a function of how, meaning what you do between now and then. Critics of President-Elect Biden say "Your plan is Trump's plan. You're not going to do anything differently than he did, except maybe how you talk about it." Is that true?
RODRIGUEZ: No, not at all. I don't agree with that.
We're going to be much more aggressive. We're going to do smart - very smart contract - contact tracing, excuse me. We're going to be very aggressive in other measures to address vulnerable populations.
This team is an A-1, A-positive, A-plus team, Chris. And I'm confident that we're going to advise the President-Elect, and we're going to come up with ways to really approach this differently.
And again, it starts with that taking it seriously and listening to science. And President-Elect Biden, Vice President-Elect Harris are doing just that.
In our first meeting with the President-Elect and Vice President-Elect Harris, they were laser-focused. I can tell you that they were - they asked great questions, extremely high-level questions that showed that they understand the problem.
And most importantly, Chris, they listened to us. They - it's clear that they're going to listen to the science. And that's--
CUOMO: Well, look, as I told you before we started the commercial, you've got a low bar for success because the current president kept telling everybody that COVID wasn't real and it was a hoax.
The question now becomes how you can get us to a better place. And the bar for that is going to be lockdowns. People are afraid of them. They believe that it does more harm than help.
Do you believe that there can be control of the numbers without shutting things down completely?
RODRIGUEZ: I do, Chris. I do believe that. I think that it's really a matter of being smart about it.
It's really a matter of doing the basic things, mask-wearing, making that an emphasis, making it sort of universal approach to that, just an approach where you consider the particular circumstances of the community.
And so, I don't believe that a full lockdown is going to be the way to go. But, again, we have to take it community-by-community.
CUOMO: Dr. Rodriguez, congratulations on being on the Task Force. If you want to help people, now is the time, and you're in the right place because this pandemic is literally killing us. So, thank you very much.
Good luck going forward. Let us know what information we can get out to help people avoid the virus.
RODRIGUEZ: Thanks so much, Chris. I really appreciate that.
CUOMO: Godspeed!
We'll be right back.
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CUOMO: It is my great honor to introduce you to "CNN TONIGHT" and its big star D. Lemon. The question for the night--
DON LEMON, CNN HOST, CNN TONIGHT WITH DON LEMON: Who's that?
CUOMO: You, son! What is the big question tonight? I say it is at what cost, Don Lemon.
LEMON: For what?
CUOMO: At what cost?
LEMON: Oh, you mean, for what the President's doing or for what the Republicans are - who are enabling him?
CUOMO: Forget the President. He does what he does which is his worst.
LEMON: We had that--
CUOMO: The enablers.
LEMON: We said that last night. Yes.
CUOMO: The enablers. At what cost?
LEMON: That's a big question. I mean how much time do you have?
CUOMO: You have an hour and - you have 61 minutes and 5 seconds.
LEMON: Well, it's a cost to the nation. I mean, we like to say democracy, but it's a republic, right? It's a cost to the republic. It's a cost to the American safety.
What gets me about what he's doing - I know we had this conversation last night. It's really about his enablers. But it really - it really upsets me that he is - when he says "Don't count," that he's undercounting the votes of our men and women in uniform, and especially on a day like yesterday. That was really upsetting to me.
But at what cost? We're going to have to find some way, I don't know, to get these people to find a backbone. There is no backbone. There is no "Country above Party" anymore. It's "Party and my own political ambition above what is right for this country." That's really what it is.
CUOMO: I had Adam Schiff on tonight, Chairman of the Intel Committee.
LEMON: I saw him.
CUOMO: And he was saying, "No, I think McConnell's going to do the relief bill and I think that there's going to be pressure on them to do more."
I don't know. I mean, look, I hope he's right. Everybody wants progress. I think voters, all the voters in this election, who voted for Biden, or voted for the other guy, deserve that.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: But I don't see any sign of that.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: McConnell playing this game now.
