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Repudiation from Election Official; Utah Buckling Under Coronavirus Surge; China Congratulates Biden; Trump Insider on Election Loss. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired November 13, 2020 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Then the fact that he cannot stomach the idea that he's going to be a one term president and he's going to be, in history, as a loser to a certain extent, which is something that, you know, he has fought against for -- for the better part of his, you know, his time on earth. So it's clear that the president is being repudiated in this statement, which says that all of his claims -- flailing claims about voter fraud have no basis. He's been going to court. He's not been able to prove any of his charges. It's been over a week and it's just not any -- there's no evidence to back up what the president's saying.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

OLORUNNIPA: And it's clear that this was a free and fair election and for -- unfortunately for him, he lost.

BERMAN: He was being repudiated by an office within the federal government, which he is at the top of. It's his own people who are saying to the world that the president is wrong. And Chris Krebs, who runs CISA, this office within Homeland Security, Reuters is reporting he's telling people he expects to be fired now for speaking the truth.

And he's going way out of his way to repudiate the president. He's retweeting statements like this. He's retweeting this from an account that says, please don't retweet wild and baseless claims about voting machines, even if they're made by the president. These fantasies have been debunked many times, including by DHS.

Susan, you've been looking into what's going on with the president, making calls all over D.C. to some of the smartest people there about what he's doing, whether this is a coup, as you say, or a con.

Survey says?

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, modestly reassuringly, I suppose, more con than coup, but terrible, terrible for our democracy. That's the bottom line, John. I mean, look, you know, Trump has set up this situation where truth is somehow an act of opposition to the president, whether coming from his own government or Republican Party officials who so far have been terrified of acknowledging the reality. Privately, they're doing so. And not -- you know, to me, one of the most difficult things that we've seen, right, we've literally had a situation where they're acting as though their in official opposition, the election results, but then privately reassuring journalists like me and others, no, no, no, you know, don't worry, it's fine, we're just giving him time. I just -- I think it's one of the most reckless weeks in a reckless presidency.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, I mean, as the pandemic, as John says, stampedes across this country, as, you know, the metaphor that we've been using this week is that jumbo jets of Americans, three to four jumbo jets a day are falling out of the sky and killing Americans. If we saw it that way, it would be more dramatic than I guess we've gotten used to people dying alone in ICUs.

And, you know, Toluse, the president is MIA. We haven't heard from him. Are your sourcing telling you that the next time we hear from him it will be with a declaration of a 2024 presidential run?

OLORUNNIPA: You know, the president is thinking about his political future and he's looking at a potential run in four years. He is not likely to actually concede defeat. He's more likely to obviously leave the White House by January 20th, but to leave in a huff and vowing to get revenge on all of the enemies that he believes have been conspiring against him since he took office.

You know, he's been going against the deep state. He's been attacking the media. He says that big tech and big money are against him. So he has all of the grievances that he needs to sort of build up a four- year campaign of vengeance and trying to run again in four years.

Now, we do know the president is already 74 years old. If he were to run again in four years, that would be -- he'd be pushing 80. He'd be trying to become the oldest president in history, even older than Joe Biden. So there are questions about whether his health would allow him to run again, but I wouldn't be surprised if we did hear the president, rather than giving a concession, gave a defiant campaign announcement saying that he was going to run if four years, even though he sees himself leaving the White House in a matter of months.

CAMEROTA: Toluse, Susan, thank you both very much for all of your reporting.

Well, Utah's governor says his state is at a breaking point. Up next, we'll hear from one woman who lost her mother and her grandfather to coronavirus within just a matter of days.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINDSAY WOOTTON, LOST MOTHER, GRANDFATHER TO COVID-19: He said, Trey (ph), I'm -- I'm dying. And she said, dad, I am too. And he said, then I'll look for you in heaven.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: We have more of that heartbreaking family story after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:38:24]

BERMAN: This morning, ICU beds in Utah are at capacity. This is it. They've reached the limit. And new coronavirus cases and hospitalizations, they are just soaring.

CNN's Lucy Kafanov has been on the ground reporting in Salt Lake City and joins us now with the very latest.

A real, real crisis, Lucy

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is, John. And the new numbers are extremely concerning. Nearly 4,000 cases reported just yesterday. And here's the thing, hospitals are already strained. And doctors tell me that it takes about two weeks for those new numbers, new cases, to translate into hospitalizations. Medical officials are bracing for the worst.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAFANOV (voice over): The coronavirus pandemic is ravaging the state of Utah. Cases skyrocketing. The death count soaring. Officials sounding the alarm.

GOV. GARY HERBERT (R-UT): We're at the breaking point, and we're ready to have some serious repercussions.

KAFANOV: The numbers shattering records. The state recording nearly 4,000 new COVID-19 cases Thursday. Utah's seven-day new case average now at a record 2,738 cases. The positivity rate for the first time surpassing 23 percent and the death toll nearing 700 and climbing.

HERBERT: Those numbers should be alarming to all of us as we look at the death rates and those who are being hospitalized and the overrunning of our hospital system.

KAFANOV: The surge wreaking havoc on hospitals.

KAFANOV (on camera): Is Utah at a tipping point when it comes to COVID infections?

[06:40:00]

DR. ELIZABETH MIDDLETON, UNIVERSITY OF UTAH: I think so.

KAFANOV (voice over): Dr. Elizabeth Middleton (ph) helps oversee the University of Utah hospital's intensive care unit and is preparing for another surge.

MIDDLETON: Ask me in two weeks, we'll be having a different conversation again because I think our -- we'll see our hospitalizations increase across -- across the state. And, again, it's the suffering that weighs on me. It's the suffering of the patients. It's the suffering of the staff who feel helpless.

HERBERT: I'm declaring a new state of emergency to address hospital overcrowding.

KAFANOV: The crisis leading Governor Gary Herbert to issue with a two- week state of emergency, ordering all Utahans to mask up, despite previously resisting a mandate, banning residents from socializing with from people different households, ramping up testing across the state, even deploying more National Guard to help with testing and contact tracing.

LINDSAY WOOTTON, LOST MOTHER AND GRANDFATHER TO COVID-19: It's crazy to think that this lady right here is -- this is what she is now, is just memories. And it's heartbreaking.

This is one of the last photos taken of them together.

KAFANOV: But Lindsay Wootton says those measures are too little, too late. Her grandfather died of COVID-19 last month. Days later, the woman she calls her best friend, her mom, also lost her life to COVID. Her father battled the disease for 46 days in the hospital, now home recovering and morning the love of his life.

WOOTTON: The whole day was probably one of the harder days of my life.

KAFANOV: She recalls when doctors broke the news her mom wasn't going to survive. Moments later, she learned that her grandfather was about to pass.

WOOTTON: We called my grandpa and I put him on speakerphone so he could talk to my mom. He called my mom kiddo. He called us all kiddo. But he said, kiddo, I'm not good. And she said, dad, I'm not either. And he said, Tray (ph), I'm -- I'm dying. And she said, dad, I am too. And he said, then I'll look for you in heaven.

KAFANOV: She wants others to learn from her family's tragedy.

WOOTTON: It's frustrating that people brush it off, that it is just the flu, because for some people, it's not. For some people, it costs their life. It took my mom and that's irreplaceable. My kids -- my kids don't get their grandma. My -- my mom will never see my kids get married.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAFANOV: Dozens of other people in Lindsay's family were affected by COVID, so much so that when they had the funeral for her mom, some couldn't attend it. It had to be broadcast via Zoom.

And, you know, this is just a microcosm of what's happening across Utah and also across the country. Her message, this isn't about politics. If something as simple as wearing one of these, wear a mask can save even one life, why wouldn't you do it? This isn't about taking away personal freedoms or liberties, it's about basic human decency and caring for the welfare of your fellow human beings, John.

BERMAN: It's about families. It's about people you love. So many loved ones are being lost all around the country right now. And we can do something to stop it. Lucy Kafanov, thank you for being with us. If you speak to Lindsay and

her family, please send our regards and our love. Thank you.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:47:41]

CAMEROTA: Developing right now, China is finally congratulating President-elect Joe Biden on his election victory.

CNN's Ivan Watson is live in Hong Kong with more.

What have you learned, Ivan?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, China has added itself, Alisyn, to the list of U.S. allies and rivals now congratulating the president-elect. A spokesperson for the Chinese foreign ministry saying today, quote, we respect the choice of the American people. We extend congratulations to Mr. Biden and Ms. Harris.

Now, relations between the U.S. and China are probably at the worst point that we've seen in decades. There's been a trade war, sanctions, tit for tat closure of consulates and, just this week, President Trump signed an executive order banning investment into companies believed to be owned by the Chinese military.

President Trump, as far as we know, the last time he spoke directly to the Chinese leader, Xi Jinping, was back in March. He, according to his tweet, they discussed the coronavirus pandemic in its early days, and he then tweeted, we're working closely together, much respect.

In October, Xi Jinping sent a get-well message to President Trump and the first lady when they contracted coronavirus.

Chinese state media does not predict relations will improve under President-elect Biden, but they have indicated they think communications will get more professional, that they're not going to be hearing about U.S. policy from presidential tweets.

Biden himself campaigned on a promise to talk tough to China, and instead of going it alone, America first, the way President Trump has, he has pledged to build a coalition of U.S. allies to put multi- lateral pressure on China to cooperate.

John and Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Not hearing policy moves via tweet is a safe bet for what we can expect under President-elect Biden.

Thank you very much, Ivan, for all of that.

So, back here, why is President Trump refusing to accept the election results? Well, one of the president's friends say it's because he's, quote, out of money and worried about being arrested. That new reporting, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:54:07]

BERMAN: Eight days since President Trump has spoken a word out loud in public, leaving many to speculate what he's thinking, if he's thinking. One Trump insider told reporter Olivia Nuzzi, quote, he wants to lose. He's out of money. He worried about being arrested. He worried about being assassinated, they said. It hasn't been a great experience for him. He liked showing people around the White House, but the actual day-to-day business of being president. It's been pretty unpleasant for him.

Joining us now is Olivia Nuzzi. She's a Washington correspondent for "New York Magazine."

Olivia, thanks so much for being with us.

This is one heck of an article and a few amazing quotes here that have drawn so much attention. In that one quote we read, there's like six things I want to dive into there. "He wants to lose." What does that mean?

OLIVIA NUZZI, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, "NEW YORK MAGAZINE": Well, this is something that Trump's friends and allies and even some White House staffers have speculated about for a long time, that he's not happy as president, that even though he might like the status that being president provides, he doesn't actually enjoy the job.

[06:55:08]

He doesn't enjoy performing typical presidential duties. He finds it rather boring. And that he doesn't really want to keep on doing this. And often during the campaign, when he would give a particularly lackluster performance at a rally, say, or if he seemed to be in particularly bad spirits, this is something that White House staffers and campaign staffers and people outside of the formal Trump apparatus would speculate about.

BERMAN: Now, the "he worries about being arrested" part, that's something, too, given CNN has reporting, Jamie Gangel reports that President Trump has been talking about 2017 or asking questions inside about whether or not he can pardon himself.

NUZZI: Right.

BERMAN: So explain that part.

NUZZI: Well, this is something that we've been asking for years, as far as we know. And that's before Jamie's reporting. But, obviously, if he is no longer in office, he has new legal threats and there is a new possibility that he could be investigated, forced to hand over documents that so far he's been able to avoid doing. He's kind of used the office of the presidency as a shield, legally, to protect himself. And if that is no longer available to him, there are a number of active investigations currently in New York, elsewhere, that I assume he's quite worried about.

I mean look at the list of Trump associates, who, from the -- starting with the 2016 campaign into the White House who have found themselves in legal peril. It's rather long. And I'm sure that he knows that and is aware of it and is thinking about that as he is being told to concede and get ready to leave office.

BERMAN: So if he does want to lose, as you're being told, then what's he doing? Then why hasn't he, if not conceded, then at least not impeded the Biden transition? And this is something that I've been fixated on, why has he not said a word out loud in public for eight days?

NUZZI: You know, I think it's quite confusing, but I thought one of the things that the friend of the president said to me that's not getting quite as much attention as the other quotes that you mentioned is that, in this person's view, the president is OK with losing, but he's not OK with quitting, that that's the distinction. And I could imagine -- this is me speculating, but I could imagine that the president views admitting defeat as somehow different, as somehow more shameful than the act of losing the election itself.

And I also think that we have to remember, this is a guy from reality TV. He understands high drama. And this is the series finale. And maybe he wants to drag it out a bit and have these legal battles that his heart's not really in, because he wants to drag out the drama that he can only really create as president of the United States. It's not quite the same if he is no longer -- if he is the outgoing president.

BERMAN: I will say, some series finales stink. See "Game of Thrones." I mean sometimes you're just better off handling it with class.

There's a lot in this article, as you said. There are things that aren't -- is -- aren't receiving the focus they should. And one of the things that I think is so interesting is what you're hearing from people inside the White House about themselves and about the atmosphere within. And I want to read this. You write, quote, I received messages from multiple staffers who said they were counting down the days until freedom from the environment they entered and stayed in willingly. That they had so much to tell me now that it was too late to matter very much. That's pretty interesting that people are sort of falling all over themselves to say these things to you.

What's going on here?

NUZZI: Well, people know that there will be life after Trump. That life is long and it's certainly long in Washington and that they need to kind of go on a bit of a reputational recovery tour. And I don't think it's surprising. I think there's just this class of kind of anti-professional operatives in the White House, in any White House, but in this White House there's certainly anti-professional who want to maintain their status, want to maintain their relationships with the people that perhaps they've attacked publicly during this administration and they want to have jobs when this is all over.

And now, you know, we're starting to hear about White House officials looking for new -- for new jobs and, you know, the impression seems to be that everyone around the president knows that it's over and is preparing for it to be over, but the president just isn't ready yet to admit that.

BERMAN: Olivia Nuzzi, thank you so much for joining us this morning. It's a terrific article. Thanks for sharing your insight. Really appreciate it.

NEW DAY continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A growing list of Republicans are urging the president to accept his fate and move forward for the good of the country.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): They're engaged in an absurd circus right now, refusing to accept reality.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Department of Homeland Security declared the 2020 election the most secure in American history.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to consider the former vice president as the president-elect.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: COVID patients in hospitals hitting another all- time high.

[07:00:01]

Deaths also climbing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a humanitarian tragedy. These are lives that don't have to be lost.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to remind everybody.