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Coronavirus Hospitalizations Reach All-Time High; Biden Announces Members of White House Senior Staff; Georgia GOP Secretary of State: Graham Implied I Should Toss Legal Ballots. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired November 17, 2020 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan. Thank you so much for joining us this hour.

We're going to begin this hour with the explosive spread of coronavirus still more than 166,000 new infections were reported in this country just yesterday. That marks two straight weeks that daily cases topped 100,000. More than 73,000 Americans are currently hospitalized with COVID-19. That is the highest number since the pandemic began.

The country has never seen anything like this in the already long months that the country has been facing this pandemic. From coast-to- coast states are implementing new restrictions in an effort to try to slow the virus' spread like California, Mississippi and Iowa now.

And in Iowa, is now implementing a mask mandate following months of resistance from the state's governor. But it will get worse before any chance of getting better in all parts of the country. The numbers, they just say so.

Positivity rates are soaring across much of the country. The national average is above 10 percent now the first time since early May. That it's been that high. And five states are reporting positivity rates of more than 40 percent. You can see them highlighted on your screen right there.

All this as President-elect Joe Biden warned that the situation will be -- only get worse if the Trump administration continues to block the transition.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: More people may die. If we don't coordinate. Look, as my Chief of Staff Ron Klain would say, who handled Ebola, a vaccine is important but it's little use until you're vaccinated. So, how do we get the vaccine? How do we get over 300 million Americans vaccinated? What's the game plan?

(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLDUAN: On CNN this morning the nation's top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, he reiterated the importance of really what Biden was hitting on, a smooth transition.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Transitions are important. And if you don't have a smooth transition, you would not optimize whatever efforts you're doing right now. It's easy to hear about it in the news and to read about it, but when you sit down with somebody and talk about what went wrong, what went right, that's important.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Lessons learned. CNN's Jessica Dean, she is following the Biden transition. She's live in Wilmington, Delaware this morning. Jessica, what are you hearing from the transition today on this?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, today they're kind of taking their focus to national security. We know that President-elect Biden will be briefed by a team of experts in intelligence in diplomatic relations and national security. But note, they are not official government experts because the transition is still being held up. So, they're not allowed to get those formal daily briefings.

Joe Biden not getting those presidential daily briefings that typically by this point in this transition process, the president- elect would be getting. So, they're focusing on that today. But as you just saw, their number one priority of course is also COVID and the coronavirus pandemic.

We know that their scientific advisers are meeting with various drug companies this week to talk about the vaccine and the distribution plan. They know that that has to get put into place and that every day they're not allowed to talk to Dr. Fauci or people at Health and Human Services. It delays them being able to craft that plan. So, right now, they're focused on all of these things, but we do expect to see the president-elect later today while he gets this briefing. Kate?

BOLDUAN: And also, just in, Jessica, Biden making some more announcements. His White House staff just really beginning to take shape. What can you tell us about that?

DEAN: Right. We're starting to see what the White House senior staff is going to look like under President-elect Biden. We know that newly named Chief of Staff Ron Klain will be there at the top.

But we also learned that Congressman Cedric Richmond who was a co- chair of the Biden campaign will be coming on as a senior adviser. He'll be directing the Office of Public Engagement.

We also know that campaign manager Jen O'Malley Dillon will be coming on as deputy chief of staff. She was also the first woman to successfully run a Democratic presidential campaign. So, she'll be coming into the White House. Also, chief strategist for the campaign Mike Donilon is coming in as senior adviser.

And Steve Ricchetti, long-time aide to President-elect Biden coming in as counselor to the president.

There are a number of names as well that they're releasing but a lot of these names, Kate, are people who have been very close to President-elect Joe Biden and first lady -- incoming first lady Jill Biden for many, many years. So, it's not surprising to see a lot of these names going into the White House with the Bidens. Kate?

[11:05:07]

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Great to see you, Jessica. Thank you.

All right. Joining me for much more right now is Dr. Celine Gounder. She is a member of Biden's transition - the Biden transition's COVID- 19 Advisory Board. A doctor that we have leaned on many times during this pandemic for expertise in public health.

Dr. Gounder, it's great to see you.

The tone that Biden -- it seemed like a bit of a new tone that President-elect Biden hit yesterday in talking about a delay -- the impact of a delay in coordinating what the transition would be you know when he said that there would be - that more people will die if the transition is delayed. Do you think that is the case?

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, MEMBER, BIDEN-HARRIS TRANSITION COVID ADVISORY BOARD: I think, Kate, this is like jumping from one moving train onto another while both are going at 100 miles an hour. I mean this is a really complicated, very difficult pandemic to control as it is. And the fact that we are not being -- we're not privy to some of the really granular on the ground details, everything from understanding what's going on with supply chains to what are the current plans for distribution of vaccines. This is really problematic. And this is something that needs to be shared now so that we have time to digest all of that information and start to make plans of our own.

BOLDUAN: You are an expert in public health. You're hitting on a few of those, but what are the areas of the COVID response that you think needs most attention and most immediately as the Biden team moves in? I say that with -- against the backdrop of what we've heard from the Trump team is we'll bring them in - we'll read them in when it's appropriate or all of the information that is necessary is publicly available already.

(LAUGHER)

GOUNDER: To formulate your government policy based on what is publicly available on the Internet or that you can read in newspapers, I mean that is ludicrous. There's reason why we have government experts, life-long bureaucrats who focus on these issues and we really need to have that intelligence at our disposal to be making plans. Some of the things we will prioritize from the beginning, the president-elect plans to invoke the Defense Production Act. This is something we on the frontlines, myself included, have been pleading for months now. We are still dealing with shortages of critical supplies, like masks and gloves and now with cases surging across the country, that shortage is only going to get worse.

BOLDUAN: That's an important point and that's an important -- that's an important thing to note. You think that almost immediately he's going to - he's going to invoke that because you think -- do you think at this point when you're talking about PPE the supplies are already strained again, we're back in crisis mode here?

GOUNDER: We are back in crisis mode. We never left crisis mode. You know, I've been using the same face shields since March when I'm at the wards at the hospital. So, we're really trying to conserve the limited supplies we have. But as cases rise, you know, even that is going to be stretched with all the rationing that we're doing.

BOLDUAN: About kind of this massive effort that also is required in going into distributing a vaccine, what specifically would you like to know from the Trump team to help with that?

GOUNDER: Well, we really like to be on the inside of conversations with Pfizer and Moderna. What plans have already been put in place? What plans are being put in place with state and local health departments? With retail pharmacy chains like CBS and Walgreens which will also be central to distributing the vaccine. And what are plans for, how do you make sure that the communities that have been hit hardest, particular communities of color, what are the plans to make sure they have equitable access to these vaccines.

BOLDUAN: Of course, while in national strategy is something that is needed. Much of the response to COVID does land on the states and has landed on the states all along. I wanted to - just taking one hotspot example right now, South Dakota. Leading the nation in COVID deaths per capita, still the governor there, Kristi Noem, she's one of a dwindling number of governors who are still holding out not mandating face coverings in the state. And she has made clear, she has no intent in changing that position. What do you say to governor Kristi Noem, governors like Kristi Noem?

GOUNDER: Well, I would say, first of all, masks are highly effective. We know they protect the person wearing them. They protect others. They're cheap. And they don't shut down the economy.

If you want to keep the economy open, this the most effective tool we have at our disposal right now. And it's so sad to see something so highly effective and cheap politicized. This is like politicizing the use of toilet paper, a very basic hygienic tool.

BOLDUAN: And the number of hospitalizations, just to hit on this point, is truly concerning right now, 73,000. Those people so sick that they have to be in hospital care. Why is that indicator especially so worrisome? What's the indicator, I guess, that you're watching most closely as you're advising President-elect Biden. [11:10:06]

GOUNDER: Well, hospitalizations -- you can't make up a hospitalization. And that is something that's very concrete. So, we know that there's a lot of transmission happening, people without symptoms in the community. But we have underestimated what the extent of that is because we simply are not testing everybody. But when somebody comes into the hospital, that's a very concrete thing but sadly that's the tiny tip of the iceberg of the larger problem of COVID transmission in this country right now.

BOLDUAN: Hence it will get worse before it gets better. Dr. Gounder a huge task in front of you. Thanks for coming on.

GOUNDER: My pleasure.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, the top election official in Georgia with a stunning accusation against Senator Lindsey Graham. That Graham suggested he tried to throw out some legally cast ballots in the state.

Plus, the American Medical Association stepping up with a very strong message for the Trump administration. They just put this out. They just put out a statement in letter to President Trump, the AMA's president will be here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:15:20]

BOLDUAN: Georgia's Republican secretary of state leveling some serious and explosive claims against Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina. Secretary Brad Raffensperger telling CNN, Senator Graham called him and hinted that he should try to discard some ballots in Georgia in the election there. Raffensperger implying that Lindsey Graham was trying to interfere in Georgia's ballot count. A hand count is underway as we speak in the state following President- elect Joe Biden's near victory in Georgia. I want you to listen to how -- how Secretary Raffensperger talked about this with Wolf Blitzer. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRAD RAFFENSPERGER (R), GEORGIA SECRETARY OF STATE: He asked if the ballots could be matched back to the voters. And then, I got the sense that it implied that then you could throw those out for any -- if you look at the counties with the highest frequent error of signatures. So that's the impression that I got. Just an implication that to look hard and see how many ballots you can throw out. And I think that they're looking at that as part of a court case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: CNN's Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill. Also here is CNN political director David Chalian. Manu, what are you hearing about this from Senator Graham? He isn't denying that he took it upon himself to call the top election official in Georgia that's for sure.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He's not denying the phone call took place. He's just denying the way that Republican secretary of state from Georgia has characterized it. He said, according to Graham, this was simply a good conversation. He denies threatening him in any way and he also denies suggesting that legal ballots should be tossed out.

His argument is that he was simply trying to understand the process and particularly for verifying signatures on mail-in ballots. He said that's why he simply called them up. I said, why is a South Carolina senator calling up a Georgia secretary of state. He told me because it affects the whole nation and he's, quote, "very interested" in what happens.

He went on to say this about the claims that he threatened the Georgia secretary of state and told him to throw out those legal ballots. He said, "That's ridiculous. What I'm trying to find out was how do you verify signatures on mail-in ballots in these states that are the center of attention? It seems to me that Georgia has some protections that maybe other states don't have, where you go into the portal to get your ballot. But I thought it was a good conversation. I'm surprised to hear him verify it that way."

Now, he also said he did not -- was not told by the president to make this phone call which occurred on Friday. He said he has not spoken to the president in about a week's time. But this goes -- is consistent with the president's efforts to question the validity of these mail-in ballots as this hand recount is underway and as Joe Biden has been projected to win this race and looks like he's going to carry this state. Republicans have been questioning the legitimacy of this.

I asked Lindsey Graham, have you seen anything that would suggest that the results of the election should be overturned in any way? He said, he has not seen that yet, but he said those are the questions that he's asking. So at least acknowledging that but he's getting a lot of criticism for this phone call to the secretary of state. He claims it was just normal business but a lot of questions about why the Republican Judiciary Committee chairman would raising this level of concern with the Republican secretary of state of Georgia who made some of those alarming comments accusing Graham of suggesting to throw out those legal ballots, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes. I mean the secretary of state clearly felt very differently about that conversation, David. I mean he is a Republican. Why would he lie about this conversation?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, I can't think of a reason. But I mean the question really, Kate, right is what the hell is Lindsey Graham doing? I mean chairman of the Judiciary Committee. He thinks he's responsible for verifying, in his own word, that Georgia's vote count was done properly when by the way the person who's actually charged with the responsibility in executing Georgia's election says that there's absolutely no evidence of any kind of fraud that the recount that is underway is going to match up with the initial results that we saw with very little change in the overall vote totals. As was expected.

And this onslaught, I mean think about this. The secretary of state in Georgia immediately after Election Day, it started with his two Republican colleagues running in those Georgia Senate runoff races calling for his resignation. His colleague that serves in the House of Representatives, Doug Collins, who is running Trump's sort of pointless battle for getting a different vote count in Georgia than the one that exists, out there just throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks.

[11:20:07]

These are his Republican colleagues and now Lindsey Graham, who's from South Carolina who as chairman of the Judiciary Committee actually has no responsibility over the way in which Georgia's elections are executed in the business now of picking up the phone and calling the secretary of state of Georgia and having a conversation whether or not, as Manu reported, he heard from the president to do that or not, let's be clear. Lindsey Graham is doing the president's bidding in trying to create fraud where there is none that exists according to the top elections official. I mean this is other level stuff going on here.

BOLDUAN: I mean - I mean to state the obvious, this isn't unnamed sources. This isn't a Democratic secretary of state. This isn't any of those things. This is straight up a Republican top election official in the state making very clear that he felt either threatened and he, from a conversation, had the very clear -- a clear enough impression from a conversation with Lindsey Graham that he felt comfortable speaking about it publicly multiple times that what Lindsey Graham was implying. I mean, in the midst of this recount -- this hand count that is happening right now. This isn't after the fact. This isn't a postmortem look. It's in the middle of it happening.

I mean, Manu, Graham inserting himself here, it has obviously to do with the presidential election but is it also, I don't know, I guess we're guessing here, but is this more possibly about the critical role that Georgia now plays in who controls the fate of the Senate?

RAJU: Well, no question about it. Those two key Senate races that will determine the next Senate majority that will occur on January 5th. And Democrats again are going to be relying on their voters to vote by mail. And Lindsey Graham since the Election Day has been making clear that vote by mail is something that he is going to go after in the new Congress, assuming the Republicans keep the majority.

He said, if the Republicans keep the majority, he wants to launch an investigation to -- into how mail-in voting is conducted across the country. He has suggested potentially more federal legislation in order to curb mail-in voting. And, of course, Democrats had a lot of success about voting by mail, which is why Republicans and the president, his allies like Lindsey Graham are so concerned here. Kate? CHALIAN: I wonder if Senator Graham wants to get rid of all the votes that came in by mail for him in his reelection -- successful reelection battle in South Carolina.

BOLDUAN: A great rhetorical question. Another rhetorical question, David Chalian, would be if a Democratic senator had done the same would Lindsey Graham be taking this position that he was taking about this right now.

Great to see you, guys. Thank you.

Still ahead for us, U.S. military commanders now on notice. President Trump will likely announce troop cuts in Iraq and Afghanistan. What would be the impact of this last-minute move?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:27:51]

BOLDUAN: There's 64 days left in Donald Trump's presidency and "The New York Times" is reporting that Trump is looking for a scorcher strategy on his way out the door. "The Times" revealing that the president asked senior aides about options for a potential military strike on an Iranian nuclear site. After learning Iran has been misleading nuclear inspectors and rebuilding its Iranian stockpiles.

Ultimately, President Trump was talked down from any military action, but it's not just that. CNN is also reporting that the president is expected to issue a formal order for a drawdown of U.S. troops in Afghanistan and in Iraq in his final days in office.

CNN's Ryan Browne, he is joining me now from D.C. with much more on this. Ryan, what are you hearing from your sources inside the Pentagon about the drawdown?

RYAN BROWNE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, U.S. military officials tell CNN that they expect an order -- an official order to be received in the coming days directing the U.S. military to cut U.S. troops in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Now, there are currently some 4,500 U.S. troops in Afghanistan and about 3,000 in Iraq. Those numbers will both -- in both countries will be reduced to about 2,500. So, it's really Afghanistan where you see the more dramatic reduction.

Now, this comes after the Trump administration has already cut the number of U.S. troops in Afghanistan by more than 50 percent after its deal with the Taliban, a deal that many U.S. officials believe that the Taliban are not adhering to, continuing to harbor al Qaeda and continue to conduct attacks against local Afghan forces.

Now the U.S. military actually advised against this additional drawdown. We know because CNN has learned that Secretary of Defense Mark Esper sent a memo to the White House -- Trump White House saying that conditions on the ground in Afghanistan had not been met to warrant a further reduction that Trump is now pursuing, saying that U.S. military commanders in Afghanistan and the Middle East both agreed with his assessment. Now, despite that recommendation, the Trump administration deciding to go ahead. In fact, Trump sacked his Secretary of Defense Mark Esper, who authored that memo, replacing him and several other top Pentagon officials who cover issues like Afghanistan, replacing them with loyalists, and some of whom who have engaged in conspiracy theories.

So, this decision could potentially very much constrain President- elect Biden as he decides to come in.

[11:30:00]