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Georgia Secretary of State Claims Lindsey Graham Told Him to Toss Out Legal Ballots; New Jersey Issues New Restrictions As Cases of COVID Break Records; NCAA to Hold March Madness in a Single Location. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired November 17, 2020 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[07:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, the Secretary of State of Georgia, a Republican, is making some stunning accusations. He says that Senator Lindsey Graham, the Republican chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee suggested that he find a way to dispose of legally cast ballots to help Donald Trump in the recount in that state.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRAD RAFFENSPERGER, GEORGIA SECRETARY OF STATE: He asked if the ballots could be matched back to the voters, and that he -- I got the sense it implied that, then you could throw those out for any -- really, we look at the counties with the highest frequent error of signatures. Well, it's just an implication that look hard and see how many ballots you could throw out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Look hard and see how many ballots you could throw out. So that interview was with Wolf Blitzer, and it followed an article in "The Washington Post" by Amy Gardner who broke that story and joins us now. Amy, first of all, thanks so much for being with us. Every time, I hear that --

AMY GARDNER, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, WASHINGTON POST: Happy to be here.

BERMAN: It just blows my mind, and I want to get to that specific accusation in just a moment. But first, talk to me about Brad Raffensperger, his overall state of mind. He is the Republican Secretary of State in Georgia overseeing the election there, and also the recount that's happening right now. What's on his mind?

GARDNER: He's angry and frustrated and exasperated by being under attack from fellow Republicans. He's a conservative Republican who worked his way up in Georgia politics, he was a city council man and then a member of the state legislature. He's a businessman, a wealthy concrete manufacturer. And so he's

feeling really under attack by his fellow Republicans who have [AUDIO GAP: 07:35:00-07] by not calling this election, instead he's trying to get through this recount and do it methodically and do it accurately and ethically.

[07:35:00]

BERMAN: So talk to me about the specific claim that he's making. I think no one disputes that Senator Lindsey Graham; Republican senator from South Carolina called him, I guess twice. First of all, it's unclear to me why --

GARDNER: No one disputes --

BERMAN: Yes, I'm not quite sure why the hell --

GARDNER: Sorry --

BERMAN: A senator from South Carolina is calling the Secretary of State in Georgia who is conducting a recount. You can ask why that's even above the board to begin with right now. But talk to me about the specific claim made by the Secretary of State that Graham implied that he looked for ways to throw out legal votes.

GARDNER: Right, I think you hit the nail on the head that, even the fact that a Republican senator from a neighboring state who is chairman of Senate Judiciary Committee called in to Georgia to talk to the Secretary of State about the recount, raises really crucial questions about, you know, propriety.

So what Senator Graham was asking Secretary Raffensperger about was the signature matching laws in Georgia. In Georgia, you have to sign your ballot and then that signature gets matched against a signature on file with the elections folks in your county.

And Senator Graham was asking Secretary Raffensperger how that process works, is it possible whether county election officials with political bias might accept signatures that they shouldn't be accepting, and would it be possible to look at counties with higher rates of rejection of signatures and actually throw out all of them. This is all according to Secretary Raffensperger who I spoke to on the telephone yesterday.

BERMAN: And Secretary Graham sort of half denies it and says, oh, that's not what I meant at all. And if the secretary felt -- feels threatened by that, he's got a problem. That's exactly what Senator Graham said. Throwing out votes, the idea of it, the implication or suggesting of it is a remarkable thing. It just is a remarkable thing. And again, to be made by a senator from another state to a sitting Secretary of State raises all kinds of questions. The secretary says he feels threatened. What does he -- what does he mean by that?

GARDNER: Well, he's been threatened. He and his wife have both received death threats via text messaging and social media. And he won't say what kind of security they have in place, but he's a wealthy businessman who lives in the northern suburbs of Atlanta, and my understanding is that, you know, protections have been put in place.

That's pretty scary especially when it affects your loved one, your wife. In addition, his wife is recovering from coronavirus currently, and he and his entire senior management team as they oversee this recount are in quarantine in their respective homes. So, there's a lot going on in his life right now, and I think it's added to the exasperation.

BERMAN: It's unclear to me why Republicans aren't thanking the guy for calling for this hand recount, the hand recount which by the way turned up a net gain of votes for Donald Trump in Floyd County. They found votes that hadn't been counted, added 800 votes to Donald Trump's total.

You would think they would be thanking him for that. But the secretary, in addition to having words for Lindsey Graham and the overall environment, really has a thing now for outgoing Congressman Doug Collins, who is overseeing the Trump recount effort in that state. What's going on there?

GARDNER: Collins has had some choice words for Raffensperger. He is the one who said that he capitulated to Democrats by not leaning in to the accusations of voter fraud. He has tweeted about Raffensperger being incompetent as a Secretary of State. And I think that really kind of pushed Raffensperger over the line because he prides himself on his competency and on the ethics that he's bringing to this effort.

He has defended the local election officials whom Republicans have accused basically of being criminals, of stealing this election for Joe Biden. And in response to that, Raffensperger actually had a press conference last week in which he surrounded himself by local election officials and celebrated their hard work during this very trying circumstances.

So, I think he's kind of had it. I mean, he wants Trump to win, he's a Republican and I think he's frustrated that he has had to kind of marginalize himself within the party in order to do what he believes is the right thing. I also think he has a message for the Republican Party, which is what they're doing is not smart as far as the Senate runoff races on January 5th.

He thinks that they are dividing the Republican Party and the Republican electorate. Some of the Republicans are actually trying to undermine public faith in the voting machines that are in use in Georgia made by a Colorado company called Dominion.

And you can already see Republican voters in Georgia on social media saying, I don't know if I should even use these machines, which is not smart when you've got a really important runoff that's going to decide the balance of power in the U.S. Senate coming up in a few weeks.

[07:40:00]

BERMAN: Amy Gardner, it's a really interesting report. Thank you so much for joining us and talking to us about this reporting. Congratulations on the break, and I have to say Brad Raffensperger committing the unforgivable sin in Republican circles of trying to run a fair election in the state of Georgia --

GARDNER: Thanks --

BERMAN: Now. What a remarkable time. Thanks for being with us. So this morning, Moderna is the second company to report more than 90 percent success with this coronavirus vaccine. We're going to speak with a doctor taking part in that trial while fighting to save lives.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Dr. Anthony Fauci is urging Americans not to let up. Despite the positive news from that second drug company about the success of its coronavirus vaccine. And now New Jersey is among several states instituting new restrictions on social gatherings.

[07:45:00]

That state and so many others are seeing record numbers in terms of new cases, hospitalizations and deaths. Let's bring in Dr. Chris Pernell; she's a physician in New Jersey and a volunteer in the Moderna vaccine trial, and she recently lost her own father to coronavirus. Dr. Pernell, we're so sorry for the loss of your dad.

CHRIS PERNELL, PHYSICIAN: Thank you. Thank you, I appreciate it.

CAMEROTA: I mean, we really wanted to talk to you because you're somebody who has now seen this virus from every side. I mean, you have lost a loved one, you are a doctor in New Jersey, and you're a volunteer for the vaccine. And so before we get to those other two things, with your own dad, I know that he was 78. He was healthy, I think, before this. He was admitted for something unrelated to the hospital?

PERNELL: Well, he was -- he was stable. My dad had multiple co- morbidities, but he actually had been in subacute rehab, and we were planning for him to return home soon, and he had a small line infection, something that you go into the hospital for, you do an additional evaluation.

When he was there, he was stable, his vitals were stable, he was laughing, he was talking, he was requesting his favorite meals, but he got exposed to coronavirus while in the hospital. It's been probably more than two weeks or so into his stay, he suddenly became ill one day, violent chills, high fevers, difficulty breathing, and he had those episodes repeatedly.

And that's when his care team said, look, we're going to have to test him for coronavirus. We were just at the peak as it was emerging in the state of New Jersey, and, unfortunately, he tested positive. And he hung on, he fought, he struggled for about two more weeks and then we lost him on April 13th.

CAMEROTA: I'm sorry. I mean, that is just the nightmare scenario that obviously people fear that going to the hospital or doctor for a different reason and then becoming sick with coronavirus. And so, we're so sorry for your loss. And what -- beyond your own personal loss, tell us what you're seeing in -- as a doctor in New Jersey in the past week. What's different now?

PERNELL: Sure. So, you know, back in April, we were an epicenter in New York and New Jersey. So our hospitals were overfilled, overrun with coronavirus patients. And then through the Summer, the cases started to recede.

It looked like we had a good handle on the pandemic, but we never truly let up, we remained vigilant. Now, what we're seeing here in the Fall is what we suspected that as temperatures would become cooler, folks would go indoors. And what we're finding is that people are actually having these private gatherings in their homes and that's driving the recent trends in spikes that we're seeing in New Jersey.

As you know, over the weekend, we had our two highest single-day cases that we haven't seen cases like that since April. So, it's causing some alarm. We're going to see hyper-local responses in the city of New York with a positivity rate as high as 19 percent, and even in some parts of the city as high as 35 percent.

You see curfews, you see non-essential businesses being asked to shut down at 8:00 p.m., and the governor just yesterday putting restrictions on indoor gatherings, putting restrictions on outdoor gatherings. So we're doing what you should do when you start to see a change in the data, your public health guidance, your public health measures and controls should ramp up. And that's what's happening in our state.

CAMEROTA: I mean, of course, you're also seeing, I understand because it's gone on so long burn out from doctors. We were just talking to other doctors that this can't go on forever. You need space and you need personnel.

PERNELL: Definitely. Look, coronavirus is a whole body virus, right? But I also like to say, it is a whole person virus. And what I mean by that, it impacts you emotionally, it impacts you physically, and it impacts you from a mental health aspect as well. And there's just fatigue setting in. Our frontline workers have been working at heroic paces. They've been standing in the gap, especially when we needed to flatten the curve.

And the fact that this is still going on, and that we haven't been able to let up and have had to remain vigilant. It takes a toll. It takes a toll on you morally. By no means will our doctors surrender, but we need the public to do everything possible to follow those public health guidelines, and we need our organizations, our hospitals, to be responsive to those whole person needs so that we can care for people through the Fall and Winter.

CAMEROTA: OK, now, let's talk about your personal volunteering. You volunteered in the Moderna trial. You received two vaccines. Any side effects?

PERNELL: Well, you know, the first injection really just like a flu shot, right? I got pain and tenderness at the injection site, that lasted for a couple of days. It didn't interfere with my activities of daily living, however. The second injection was different, I can tell you. I got that injection early in the morning in early October.

[07:50:00]

And by the end of the day, I had like rapid onset fatigue. I recall telling my sister, you know, I had a hard time getting out of the car tonight, and I just sat there because I was so tired. I mean, I had a lingering headache for several days. And then after 24 to 36 hours, I started to return to my baseline and I felt fine. So that's been my experience. And if you look at the literature and the press, it's kind of similar to what others in the different trials across the U.S. have experienced as well.

CAMEROTA: And so, what do you tell people who that makes them nervous? They're nervous to get the vaccine if and when it's available. What do you say?.

PERNELL: I say those symptoms were manageable. I say those symptoms weren't out of proportion to what I have participated in. And I say it was worth it. Look, you know, we got early results that the Moderna vaccine could potentially be 95 percent effective. That's a game- changer. I woke up to a text from a friend who knew that I participated in the trial, and she said, have you heard the news? Have you heard the news?

And on top of the recent results that we saw from the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine trial, this is just really encouraging, especially for those of us in public health, we're looking to have a full armament, like full tools in our tool chest that can actually flatten and beat back this pandemic, and help Americans return to their normal lives some day in the future.

CAMEROTA: Dr. Chris Pernell, thank you for all of your doing, and thank you for sharing your very unique personal experience with us. We really appreciate --

PERNELL: Thank you --

CAMEROTA: That --

PERNELL: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Up next, a major change for one of America's biggest sporting events. That's next in the "BLEACHER REPORT".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:55:00]

BERMAN: So major news for basketball fans after being canceled for the first time ever this year due to the pandemic, the NCAA tournament will take place in 2021 and where, pretty interesting. Andy Scholes with that and the "BLEACHER REPORT", hey, Andy.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS REPORTER: Yes, good morning, guys. So, no tournament in 2020 cost the NCAA $375 million. So it's working on plans to ensure that it happens in 2021. The NCAA announcing yesterday that the entire 68 team men's basketball tournament is going to take place in a single city.

They're in talks with Indianapolis to be that location, that's where the final four is scheduled for 2021. And a typical tournament takes place in 13 different cities for early round games, but organizers say it's not feasible to manage this complex championship in so many different states with the challenges presented by the pandemic.

All right, Monday night football, Vikings and the Bears. Kirk Cousins throwing two touchdown passes to Adam Thielen in this one as Minnesota beat Chicago 19-13, fourth loss in a row for the Bears. And quarterback Nick Foles had to be carted off late in that game with a leg injury. So, more bad news there for Chicago.

But Alisyn, for Kirk Cousins, he was 0 for 9 on Monday night football going into last night's game, finally got that win. I guess the tenth time was the charm, so he no longer has to dread when he sees his schedule come out and he has a Monday night football game.

CAMEROTA: OK, very good, Andy, thank you very much for all of that.

SCHOLES: Right.

CAMEROTA: All right, there are a dizzying number of election fraud lawsuits filed by President Trump's legal team flying all over the country. And that's why our John Avlon has been burning the midnight oil, looking at them. He's here to tell us which ones have legs in our reality check. Hi, John.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Ali, if you're confused by all the lawsuits and lies coming from the Trump campaign and its post-election death throes, then you're not alone. It's hard to keep track, but then distraction and disinformation has always been part of their plan, possibly, even more than actually winning cases in court. So, here's the tale of the tape to-date. Lawyers filing lawsuit after lawsuit on Trump's behalf have lost eight of them and dropped entirely another four.

But hey, nobody said overturning an election without evidence would be easy. But because some folks would remember the accusations more than the actual facts, let's set the record straight, starting with Pennsylvania where Trump tweeted that he won the election because 700,000 ballots were not allowed to be viewed in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh.

In fact, in Philly, they live-streamed the counting room to keep conspiracies like that at bay. And when a Trump lawyer admitted to a Bush-appointed judge that they did in fact have a non-zero number of observers in the room, the judge replied, I'm sorry, what's your problem then?

Another Trump lawyer seeking to disqualify ballots in Montgomery County PA was asked by the judge if he was alleging there was fraud, he replied to my knowledge at present, no. Which is a pretty good summation of the pro-Trump legal strategy keep promising that evidence will be shortly forthcoming which never arrives.

We saw the same theme in Michigan where a judge blocked an attempt to stop certification of Biden's win, declaring accusations of widespread election fraud incorrect and not credible. In Arizona, Trump's legal team had a hard time translating an internet conspiracy theory involving sharpies and scanners into a legal case. But we did get treated to this flash of candor from a Trump lawyer.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not a fraud case. We are not alleging fraud in this lawsuit. We're not alleging that anyone is stealing the election.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

AVLON: This of course is not the party line, and they soon dropped the suit. In Wisconsin, in an attempt to block a batch of votes was likewise abandoned. While a lack of evidence also doomed a case in Nevada. Now, one hot conspiracy theory falsely links a voting machine software company to -- wait for it, Venezuela and George Soros, and then blames it for mysteriously changing vote totals.

That's apparently the rumor that Trump's own DHS was trying to get debunked when they wrote, "there is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes or was in any way compromised.

CNN also looked into claims that 14,000 dead people voted in Michigan. Our fact-checkers chose 50 names at random and found a grand total of zero dead people who voted. But while Trump and his sycophants can lie about anything, lawyers don't have that luxury.