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U.S. Sees Deadliest Day in Six Months; Trump Fires Official Who Disputed His Baseless Election Fraud Claims; Biden Spokesperson: Krebs 'Should Be Commended, Not Fired'. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired November 18, 2020 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president fired one of the most senior officials involved with keeping our elections safe.

[05:59:15]

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Chris Krebs was telling the president what he did not want to hear about the election.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is no evidence of irregularities, no evidence of widespread fraud presented today to the Wayne Board of Canvassers.

NICK WATT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Nationwide, average daily case counts are now double the peak of the summer surge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is simply the fastest increase California has seen since the beginning of this pandemic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got a few months before the vaccines come to the rescue. We want to save as many lives as we can.

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ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. It's Wednesday, November 18, 6 a.m. here in New York.

And breaking overnight, American democracy. Actually, it didn't break, but it wasn't for lack of trying from President Trump.

A dizzying 12-hour period, where the president assaulted dedicated civil servants while simultaneously trying to undermine the outcome of an election.

First, the president fired a key official at the department of homeland security, whose crime, apparently, was to protect the integrity of the election and who committed the unforgivable sin in Trump world of telling the truth about the absence of widespread fraud. Then, Republican allies in Wayne County, Michigan, Detroit,

temporarily blocked certification of the votes there. The Trump campaign's lead attorney bragged that this would allow Michigan to appoint pro-Trump electors. Essentially give him the state, even though he lost by more than 148,000 votes.

Again, they bragged about this. Bragged about disenfranchising voters.

Finally, the county board relented overnight and certified the votes, but the future in this state not certain this morning.

So as we wake up, hearing democracy creaking under the strain of these attacks, the question is not just how far will the president go? We know the answer to that: there's no limit. The real question is how far will Republicans let him go?

There's been this idea that their acquiescence is all performance art, a game, walking around like Russell Crowe in "Gladiator," shouting, "Are you not entertained?" This morning, the answer to that, at least, is "no."

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And the political chaos unfolding on the deadliest day of the coronavirus pandemic in the past six months: 1,700 new deaths reported overnight. Nearly 77,000 Americans will wake up in the hospital this morning.

The White House coronavirus task force warning that there is, quote, "an aggressive, unrelenting, and expanding" spread of the virus across the country. And that current mitigation methods are not working.

It's a very busy Wednesday morning, and our coverage begins with Joe Johns at the White House -- Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

The president remains dug in here at the White House, not conceding anything. This latest move was expected, but it didn't add anything positive to Donald Trump's legacy: firing that homeland security official, who arguably was one of the heroes of the 2020 election, because he contradicted Donald Trump's fake fraud farce.

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JOHNS (voice-over): Refusing to accept defeat, President Trump is staying out of public view. But behind the scenes, he's working, using his executive powers to wage war against the integrity of the U.S. electoral system. Trump firing Chris Krebs.

CHRIS KREBS, FORMER DIRECTOR, CYBERSECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY AGENCY: My confidence in the security of your vote has never been higher.

JOHNS: The president tweeting he made the decision after the cybersecurity agency had rejected Trump's baseless claims about voter fraud last week, by issuing a statement that said there was no evidence of votes being deleted or changed, adding, "The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history."

Krebs responding to his firing, tweeting, "Honored to serve. We did it right."

President-elect Joe Biden's team condemning Trump's decision.

REP. CEDRIC RICHMOND (D-LA), BIDEN TRANSITION SENIOR ADVISOR: Trump's whole behavior right now should frighten the American public. And so when you look at all of the things he's doing, especially with Krebs, the simple fact that he said our elections are something we could believe in, and there was no fraud or abuse or any cheating, the president didn't like his answer, so he got rid of him.

JOHNS: While Trump continues to spread false statements about voter fraud, his Republican ally, Senator Lindsey Graham, is also entangled in a controversy of his own. Graham saying he spoke to officials in Arizona, Georgia, and Nevada, three states Biden won.

The admission coming after Georgia's secretary of state alleged Graham hinted some legally-cast ballots should get thrown out during the state's recount, something the South Carolina senator denied.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): What I'm very concerned about is that if you're going to continue to vote by mail, that we need to know what systems work and what don't. It's up to the people of Georgia. But I think I have every right in the world to reach out and say, How does it work?

JOHNS: A second Georgia official contradicting Graham.

GABRIEL STERLING, GEORGIA VOTING SYSTEM IMPLEMENTATION MANAGER: There was a secondary conversation about, Well, what does this mean, looking backwards? You really look at the signatures and say, there should have been more rejected than -- than not, and could that be a potential court challenge?

JOHNS: On Capitol Hill, Democrats expressing outrage.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): The chairman of the Judiciary Committee calling around to states to try and interfere with the process, that was reckless, inappropriate.

JOHNS: And in Michigan, a bipartisan panel in the state's largest county unanimously certified election results after Republicans temporarily blocked the certification. The Wayne County Republicans on the Board of Canvassers citing dubious claims of voting irregularities before backpedaling and confirming Biden's victory.

JOCELYN BENSON (D), MICHIGAN SECRETARY OF STATE: It appears that the truth won in this scenario. Basically, the evidence is clear, there were no irregularities. There was no evidence of widespread fraud.

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[06:09:00] JOHNS: Yet again, no public appearances on the president's schedule, at least so far today, though he and the first lady have put out the word that they intend to spend Thanksgiving here at the White House, their last Thanksgiving at the White House instead of going to Mar-a- Lago -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Joe, thank you very much for all of that reporting.

So the Biden transition team responding to the latest effort by President Trump and his GOP allies to undermine the election results.

CNN's Jessica Dean is live in Wilmington, Delaware, with more. What are they saying, Jessica?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, I want to read you a statement from a Biden spokesperson that was released later last night, if I can. "Chris Krebs should be commended for his service in protecting our elections, not fired for telling the truth. Bipartisan election officials in the administration itself and all around the country have made clear that Donald Trump's claims of widespread voter fraud are categorically false, and Trump's embarrassing refusal to accept that reality lays bare how baseless and desperate his flailing is."

Again, that's coming from a Biden spokesperson.

We also heard from a Biden spokesperson on the situation in Michigan, which they reminded everyone that Biden won by 14 times the margin that Donald Trump won Michigan in 2016. They believe that those votes will continue to be certified and Joe Biden is the winner there.

All of this as the transition team, the Biden transition team continues to be locked out of the formal transition process. They are moving ahead in all the ways that they possibly can. That includes filling out their White House staff with a number of announcements yesterday of who will be going to the White House with President-elect Joe Biden and advising him in the Oval Office.

Also, you saw President-elect Joe Biden holding that national security briefing, but note, all of those experts that he had assembled there are people who are outside of the current administration, outside of the current government. Again, that's because there's no formal transition process that's happening right now. It has not been signed off on by the General Services Administration, which is that federal office responsible for that, and President Trump hasn't conceded.

So President-elect Biden still not getting those presidential daily briefings, so again, they're doing what they can to get the information they need.

All of this, too, as they continue to keep the focus on COVID, on the economy, on national security. And on the COVID front, we know that President-elect Biden will be meeting with frontline health care workers today on a virtual town hall, John.

Again, they're trying to move forward best they can. But they have said, Ron Klain, the incoming chief of staff, has said that the longer this goes on, the harder it becomes to plan for things like a vaccine distribution plan, which is going to be critical. And a giant logistical challenge they want to get their hands on right now. They simply do not have access to that information.

BERMAN: Seventeen hundred new deaths reported overnight while this circus was in town. Jessica Dean, thank you so much for being with us. Keep us posted, the developments from Wilmington.

Joining us now, Margaret Talev, CNN political analyst and politics and White House editor at Axios; and Jessica Huseman, CNN analyst and reporter for ProPublica.

And friends, I like to call this a single entendre. What we saw last night overnight was a single entendre on two fronts. Just like zero ambiguity or nuance to what the president did. He fired Chris Krebs for telling the truth. He fired Chris Krebs for saying that there was no fraud.

And I quote from Krebs' statement earlier in the week, "There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised." That got him fired, Margaret.

So what now? I mean, what are we going to hear from Republicans? What are the implications and impact of this?

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: John, you're right. There was not any ambiguity at all to what happened last night. And in fact, it had been coming for days.

And in fact, it had probably been coming for about a month, because Chris Krebs started something called the rumor control website in the weeks leading up to the election that set about systemically debunking myths about and disinformation about the elections, and increasingly, including after the election, those myths included the ones that the president was spreading.

So what is happening now politically, in terms of Republicans speaking out, is actually maybe going to be quite different and less important to the actual process than what you see going on state by state.

And I think on Friday, which is Georgia's deadline now to certify the elections, we may see a really, really important turning point. But state by state, what we're seeing in Michigan last night, in Pennsylvania and now in Georgia in the coming days, are closing President Trump's windows.

So we're beginning to see some shift in the way Republicans are talking about this. We're seeing Mitch McConnell push back against the president on some policy and personnel moves that he's making. And we're beginning to see senators like Marco Rubio beginning gently to sort of talk past Trump towards the next administration.

[06:10:19]

But we're not seeing the kind of outrage that you would, I think, expect to see traditionally from elected officials, regardless of which party they're in, from the Republicans, drawing the line and saying, you know, this is not an appropriate sort of firing.

CAMEROTA: Jessica, can we talk about what happened in Michigan last night? So it was just as -- I mean, it was as predicted. People have worried that this was going to happen, that Republicans were not going to certify the -- their state's election results, and these two Republicans on the Wayne County Canvassing Board attempted to do that last night; and then they changed course after there was a public outcry.

However, is that some sort of dry run for what could happen at the state level? Is that some sort of testing out that model that we should prepare ourselves for elsewhere?

JESSICA HUSEMAN, CNN ANALYST: You know what? Maybe I'm too much of an optimist, but I really think that it's now basically a settled issue. I think that this is evidence that, you know, political influence and intimidation of your Republican colleagues can only get you so far.

The -- the worst-case scenario after this county did not certify its elections is that the state would sue or the state would certify the results themselves.

Clearly, neither of that needed to happen, because almost immediately, that board reversed its decision on the condition that the secretary of state would audit the very few and very minor and very predictable abnormalities that happened in some precincts.

And so I think that there is political pressure and that political pressure has clearly been affected from a messaging standpoint, but I'm still convinced that it will have very little impact on the actual certification of results.

BERMAN: Just so people understand what this fight was over, it was a fight over a discrepancy in the voting books, that the books that they kept track of who walked in to vote or who sent in mail, didn't match up with the numbers of people who voted.

But you know the total number -- the "Detroit Free Press" reports this morning the total number of votes in question.

CAMEROTA: Do you have a graphic?

BERMAN: Three hundred and sixty-seven votes. OK? You know how much Joe Biden won Michigan by? A hundred and forty-eight thousand votes. So they tried to hold up the election for 367 votes and not certified.

And Jessica, I appreciate your optimism, but the state board does this again, which is split two Republicans, two Democrats. So if they want to fight this again, the same thing can happen at the state level. Then there might be the court case and whatnot.

The reason I still think it's a possibility is because the Trump campaign tells us this is their goal. There's no ambiguity. Again, there's a single entendre here. Jessica Ellis -- what's her name, Jennifer Ellis, who's the counsel

for the Trump campaign. Can we throw this up on the screen, this graphic of her tweet? She says, "Breaking overnight, this evening the county board of canvassers in Wayne County, Michigan" -- I can't read it.

CAMEROTA: "Refused to certify the election results. If the state board follows suit, the Republican state legislature will select the electors. Huge win for Donald Trump."

BERMAN: So she is telling us that what they're trying to do is to have the Republican legislature in Michigan throw out the election. Throw out the election in Michigan and have the state legislature appoint electors.

Now, I actually don't think the legislature would do it. I'm with you on that.

CAMEROTA: And why don't you?

BERMAN: Because they've told us they wouldn't. I mean, the Republican leaders in the Senate in Michigan have told us they wouldn't do it in so many words. But the fact that the Trump campaign has told us this is their strategy I think is a moment, Jessica. I think it's something we have to pay attention to.

HUSEMAN: Absolutely. I think that this is quite terrible for the outlook on election administration and security going forward. President Trump has uniquely damaged his own base's trust in the system.

And so while that might be politically convenient now, I'm convinced that, in the long run, it will backfire on them. You know, you heard Georgia secretary of state Brad Raffensperger say just a couple of days ago that Trump secured his own loss in that state by reducing the number of people on his side who were willing to cast ballots by mail, because he cast these same unnecessary and deeply ungrounded assertions about vote by mail.

And so, you know, I just think that there is only so much that you can do to foment distrust in the system before that begins to result in less votes for you. Because Trump is certainly not convincing Democrats that the system is flawed. He is only convincing his followers.

CAMEROTA: The reason I'm not as optimistic as you both are -- and Margaret, I'll check in with you right after the break -- is because people with very big megaphones have been telling Republican, you know, canvassing boards to do this. I mean, such as Lou Dobbs, such as -- when Sean Hannity asked Senator Lindsey Graham about this, Lindsey Graham on November 5 said, nothing's off the table.

[06:15:18]

BERMAN: It's just, Michigan's the only place that can do it like this. Part of the issue is, is that -- the reason that the Trump campaign has been fighting in Michigan at all is for this reason. The other states that have different processes that wouldn't let them do it this way.

CAMEROTA: From your lips to a judge's ears. And we will talk about, also, what Rudy Giuliani tried to do in court yesterday.

BERMAN: Great lawyer. Apparently, some terrific lawyering.

CAMEROTA: Well, in demand.

BERMAN: But he's being used as a stooge. He didn't do this under his own free will, for those people who are apologizing.

CAMEROTA: I've got to go to break right now.

BERMAN: All right.

CAMEROTA: OK. Hold that thought. Jessica, Margaret, stick with us, if you would.

Coming up, we will talk with them about -- well, particularly, Jessica, about her brand-new reporting about the Georgia election and Republican efforts to pressure Georgia's secretary of state to throw out legal votes. The new developments on that.

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[06:20:19]

CAMEROTA: OK. We're back with Margaret Talev and Jessica Huseman.

And Margaret, I want to pick up where we left off, which is, do you think that other Republican state legislatures can do what the Wayne County -- what the Republicans on the Wayne County Board of Canvassers in Michigan tried to do last night and basically go rogue and not certify their state's results?

TALEV: Well, Alisyn, I'll say this. I think the only reason that this isn't moving forward now in Michigan is because of the margin of Biden's victory in the state, almost 150,000 votes, and because the intensity with which the public pushed back.

And I am not as optimistic about what this says about the future of elections. I really think it gives a whole new meaning to the word "stress test," and I think if President Trump could do this, what was made clear last night is he would do that. And I think that is just a very ominous sign for the future of American politics, post-Trump, beyond Trump.

What we know is that once you break a norm anywhere in culture, in politics, anywhere in society, once a norm is really broken, it's very hard to glue it back together. And I just think that -- like, we wrote this story about a week ago, saying that this whole push with electorates is something that could happen.

And it seemed like just a crazy theory at the time. The fact that there were concrete steps towards this idea last night, led by the president and his legal team and top supporters, is a stunning and deeply troubling development in American politics.

BERMAN: Right, that in and of itself is cause for concern. Whether it works is a different issue. The fact that they tried it and admitted they were trying it while it was happening is stunning. And should shock people this morning. And the question no longer is, as I stated -- bye, Margaret.

CAMEROTA: Margaret's shocked.

BERMAN: Isn't how far the president and his team will push this, because we now know there is no limit. The question is, how far will Republicans let it go?

And last night on the Senate floor, we saw something, honestly, which is farcical. Which is, we saw Senator Kamala Harris, the vice president-elect-elect on the well of the Senate floor, going back for her first time to vote on some stuff. And you see Lindsey Graham there give her a fist bump and other senators congratulate her.

So, again, as I said, this idea that it's performance art. They're merely giving the president the space for these shenanigans, but deep down inside they're going to congratulate Kamala Harris on being the vice president-elect. I mean, what a farce. Honestly, they are playing with democracy new in dangerous ways.

And Jessica, the Lindsey Graham, the same said senator from South Carolina who we now know has been calling around to the country, trying to meddle on the president's behalf, including a call to the secretary of state of Georgia, which left the secretary with the impression that Lindsey Graham wanted votes thrown out in several counties that would benefit Joe Biden.

You've got some reporting on maybe one source of friction between the Republican secretary of state in Georgia and the president.

HUSEMAN: Sure. So what ProPublica learned is that the Trump campaign has been trying to get Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to issue a public endorsement of Trump since early January. They framed it as him serving as an honorary co-chair in his campaign.

And Raffensperger and his staff declined as a matter of policy. They feel it's important to remain politically neutral and do not endorse any candidates at all, although, certainly, other secretaries of state do.

And what happened following was a little bit of a promised retribution campaign, or at least that is how the staff of the office feels this is playing out. There were several phone calls with pressure added. There was a meeting after they announced that they would be mailing out absentee ballots, in which Billy Kirkland, who was one of the top Trump campaign officials in the state, burst in unannounced to complain about the lack of the endorsement and said that people had noticed, which the staff took to mean Trump, and that they should reconsider. And when it became clear that they weren't going to, the meeting

ended. Billy slammed the door and said, "Well, we'll see how helpful you are in November."

And so I think that readers can draw their own conclusions about all of the events that followed. Of course, the Republicans have unleashed a barrage of attacks on the secretary of state for Georgia, almost all of them completely baseless. And I think that we are seeing, at least in part, this play out because Raffensperger has not been willing to play ball with the Trump campaign from the very beginning.

CAMEROTA: Now, the Republicans have also unleashed a barrage of lawsuits. Most of them, I mean, basically laughed out of court, Margaret.

[06:25:09]

And so last night, Rudy Giuliani was at it again. He was in Pennsylvania trying to stop the -- you know, Pennsylvania from being given to Joe Biden, and here's what the judge had to say to him yesterday: "You're alleging that the two individual plaintiffs were denied the right to vote, but at bottom, you're asking this court to invalidate more than 6.8 million votes, thereby disenfranchising every single voter in the commonwealth. Can you tell me how this result could possibly be justified?"

These are the kinds of questions that they're having to face. But they keep at it.

TALEV: This is going to require public servants like Chris Krebs, public servants like the secretary of state in Georgia, people who in some cases are personally Republicans, but are ultimately public servants, to stand up for the public and take apolitical stances, even if it's extremely difficult and causes a tremendous amount of pressure on the future of their careers.

And I think, in some cases, these people are going to find that actually their careers are rewarded, because they're sort of validated for doing their jobs. And in other cases, I think it is going to cause damage to their careers, and they're going to have to live with it anyway, because they're more committed to serving the public.

But it is -- it is a stunning conclusion to a stunning presidency. And I think we are not done seeing maneuvers in the days and weeks to come.

BERMAN: And by the way, you know, there are reports in "The Times" and other places that Rudy Giuliani wants to charge $20,000 a day for his "legal services." And yes, that did merit air quotes right there.

And there have been these questions about, Oh, is Rudy maybe lacking mental acuity? Has he slipped a little bit? You know, I think we can start grading him on a curve. Take him at his word that he knows what he's doing here. He's trying to bilk the Trump campaign for money at the same time demonstrating questionable moral values. And the question of whether this taints his legacy -- this is his legacy at this point.

Margaret Talev, Jessica Huseman, thank you very much.

CAMEROTA: The political infighting comes as the United States just recorded its deadliest day in the coronavirus pandemic in the past six months. An update on the restrictions that now are being imposed around the country. That's next.

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