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New Day

President Trump Fires Homeland Security Official Overseeing 2020 Election Security Chris Krebs; President Trump Preparing Withdrawal of U.S. Troops from Afghanistan; Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer is Interviewed About Michigan Republicans Backtracking After Blocking Vote Certification and About New COVID Restrictions in Michigan; Pfizer: Coronavirus Vaccine 95 Percent Effective, Will Be Submitted for FDA Approval Within Days. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired November 18, 2020 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

(IN PROGRESS)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not want to hear about the election.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is no evidence of irregularities, no evidence of widespread fraud presented today to the Wayne Board of Canvassers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nationwide, average daily case counts are now double the peak of the summer surge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is simply the fastest increase California has seen since the beginning of this pandemic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got a few months before the vaccines come to the rescue. We want to save as many lives as we can.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. And this morning, it is not just a question now of how far the president will go. The answer to that it seems is there are no limits. The real question is how far Republicans will let him go.

Overnight the president fired a key official at Homeland Security whose crime, it appears, was telling the truth, refusing to say there was widespread fraud in the election. Almost simultaneously, Republicans in Wayne County, Michigan, which includes Detroit, tried to block certification of votes in that county. The Trump campaign's lead attorney bragged that this would allow Michigan to appoint pro- Trump electors, essentially overthrowing the will of the people, throwing out the entire election that Joe Biden won in Michigan by 148,000 votes and handing it to Donald Trump. Now, that board late overnight reversed that decision. It might not be over yet. We're going to speak with the governor of Michigan in just a moment.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: More states also issuing new coronavirus restrictions, including curfews, mask mandates, and business closures. The death toll hit more than 1,700 Americans yesterday. That's the highest daily total in six months. Nineteen states are dealing with record hospitalizations.

But there is some hopeful breaking news this morning. Pfizer reporting another round of promising data on its coronavirus vaccine. The drug maker will soon seek emergency authorization from the FDA.

BERMAN: Much more on that in just a moment, but joining us now, CNN national security commentator Mike Rogers, he is the former Republican House committee chair, and CNN political analyst Maggie Haberman, she's a White House correspondent for the "New York Times."

Chairman Mike, we just heard from Adam Kinzinger who was talking about Chris Krebs getting fired. He is an official in the Department of Homeland Security who oversees election security and last week said this was the safest, most secure election in U.S. history, and went on to say he saw no evidence of fraud at all. That's what got him fired. And Adam Kinzinger flat out said it's a loyalty test. This is what the president is going to do until January 20th. What do you think the impact of this is? What do you make of it?

MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: I think it's awful, first of all. So think about this. The president is going to be the president for the next 60 days or so, and he has a pretty important job to make sure that, a, the transition goes well and, b, that the rest of the world understands that our greatest strength is a peaceful transfer of power. So of all the things he should be doing, spitefulness shouldn't even be on the list. But this was a spiteful dismissal.

Remember, Krebs was put in charge of an organization that was designed to make sure that foreign actors were not trying to interfere with our elections. Remember the Russians were trying to actually break in to voting machines. And they weren't successful in 2016, but we knew that they were coming back in 2018, and his job was to make sure that state and locals had the best information possible to try to prevent that.

So when you dismiss him for all the wrong reasons, it just sends a horrific message. As a matter of fact, I argue that the Biden team should ask him to be on the review teams to make sure that the transition goes well from Chris to the next caretaker of that office, hugely important. So not good for the country, not good for the transition, sends a horrible message. As my parents said, you judge a person's character not by when things are going well, but when they're going poorly. I think that says a lot where the president is going with his hiring decisions in the last 60 days.

CAMEROTA: Maggie, we just had Miles Taylor on. He thought that the Biden team might do just that, they might reach out to Chris Krebs now, for good reason. Not only did he announce that it was the most secure, he kept it the most secure. He helped this election. This could be a huge feather in the cap of American democracy. But of course, that's not true -- I mean, that's not happening. We saw this coming. Chris Krebs saw this coming. He knew that after he put out that tweet saying that this was the most secure election in history that his head was on the chopping block. And so it wasn't surprising, but still just shocking. Do you have any reporting on how the president -- what took him so long? How he worked his way around to firing Chris Krebs?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Basically, Alisyn, the president wanted to do this right after Election Day. He had, for whatever reason, moved off of it because I think his mind was on other issues, there are other areas where he is trying to box Joe Biden in, and I think he was distracted by that.

[08:05:10]

He came back around to this, whether it's because he saw Krebs being interviewed or talked about it or whether somebody got back in his head, it's not entirely clear. But this was, as you say, inevitable, and Krebs knew that it was going to happen. It doesn't make it any less shocking, it doesn't make people less scared about what the president might do over the next 60 days.

And again, as you know, he was fired because he said something contrary to what the president wants to say about the election. It is reaching a new level in terms of how the president is trying to push back against reality, which is that he lost the election. He's trying to make that not the case, and this is another brick in that wall. It would not surprise me if the Biden folks reached out to him, Alisyn, in no small part because the Biden folks can't do a normal transition right now, so they need to get information wherever they can.

BERMAN: And this is a guy who apparently just does a good job, too. Who knows the job well, works hard, has support on both sides of the aisle.

CAMEROTA: How dare he.

BERMAN: It may just be that he is a good person to have working for you. Look, Congressman, there have been a few Republicans who have stood up, mustered the courage to stand up and say this was a bad more. Adam Kinzinger was just on with us, he did. Ben Sasse put out a statement, Richard Burr put out a statement. But come on. Where are the Republicans now? How much further are they going to let this go at this point, Chairman?

ROGERS: I certainly hope there is a queue outside the White House trying to talk some sense into the president in the next 60 days. Again, he's going to be judged as harshly in the next 60 days as he did the previous three-and-a-half years. And being disruptive to the national security infrastructure -- listen, I don't think it's the end of the world, but why would we make our challenges harder. And, by the way, the transition -- it makes the transition much more difficult to walk in. They have got to try to pick up the pieces and get the morale back corralled around. And now people are doing not really their jobs, but they're looking over their shoulders, saying is today the day I get fired.

I really don't want them to think about that. I want them to think about how do we get through this transition and make America as safe as I can in the role that I have in the next 60 days or so, and then hand off something that I would be proud to hand off to the next administration. Again, I think Republicans should -- I see more and more doing it. Lankford was out there, Rubio was out there. So I think this is coming, but I do think they need to get a handle on it.

The decision on Afghanistan is not based on certainly what military commanders are saying. We don't have the ability to reach out and strike from a counterterrorism perspective, which was the whole reason. And it absolutely undercuts any Taliban negotiation. This is really crazy. And I hope people get into the president's ear on this and slow this thing down, because what you're going to do is empower the very people that we sent people there in the first place to stop safe haven. That's a disaster.

Our NATO allies, as a matter of fact, the head of NATO said this is a terrible idea. They have troops, NATO has troops, allied countries in NATO have troops in Afghanistan. They're getting the rug pulled out from under them. This is just a terrible decision. And I do believe it's because they're trying to muck up the next batch that come in. They're going to have to make a decision. And what I think the president wants to do is run around the country and say, see, I got out, they're putting more troops in. That is a disservice to our national security.

Mr. President, you are president for 330 million Americans, not any subset of that. And by the way, this is not about you at this point. I'm sorry you lost for your own sake, but this next 60 days is important. Show the rest of the world who we are as Americans. This is not the way to do it.

CAMEROTA: Maggie, how about that? Is this just President Trump keeping some sort of campaign promise, or is there something else going on?

HABERMAN: I think that it's exactly right, that the president is trying to box the incoming president in with serious policy moves. One is on Afghanistan, another is potentially on Iran, which my colleagues and I reported on the other day. Others are on China. Yes, OK, this was a campaign promise, but I do think the president wants to be able to say he did this and make it harder for Joe Biden, the incoming president, to undo things. And I am in no way justifying this. In the president's mind and in the people around him, in their minds, this was done to him in terms of the investigations into him related to Russia. It's obviously not the same thing, but that's the perspective they're coming from.

BERMAN: Maggie, what's your reporting now on the president in general? He's canceled his Thanksgiving trip to Mar-a-Lago to hunker down in the White House. What's the thinking there? Also just in general, and we're going to talk to Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer and dive much deeper into that, but is there now a concerted strategy from Giuliani and others to basically decertify the entire election and throw it up to Republican legislators?

[08:10:04]

HABERMAN: It's certainly been a strategy from Giuliani and some of Giuliani's associates like Steve Bannon. Whether that's going to be successful is a different question. It's also not in the strategy of the campaign, which was trying to work in a more methodical day, at least with discrete lawsuits or specific lawsuits, that the legal issue and their lawsuit strategy, such as it is, has been messy for many, many weeks now. But that is something that people are talking about.

In terms of why the president has canceled his Mar-a-Lago vacation, I've heard a couple of different explanations, John, but one is, candidly, that the family, the Trump family, wants to have Thanksgiving in the White House knowing that this is -- unless barring the absolutely surprising -- going to be the last time. I think that there is a difference between what the president is saying publicly and what he is aware of, which is that this is over. Everyone I have spoken to who has had that conversation with him has made clear to him this is a huge long shot what you're trying to do here. He knows it. He wants to keep fighting, but it doesn't mean that he doesn't understand that looming out there is a late January deadline when he is going to have to leave the White House.

CAMEROTA: Chairman, how about that? We do have the governor of Michigan coming up, but you're from there. How about what happened there last night with these Republicans, these local county officials refusing to certify the Wayne County election results, and then there being outcry, and then them changing their mind, but not before President Trump wasn't very proud of them. He tweeted, "Wow! Michigan just refused to certify the election results. Having courage with a beautiful thing. The USA stands proud!" What's going on in Michigan, or at that moment?

ROGERS: Listen, there's a difference between courage and a foolish notion that you're going to curry favor. I don't quite understand it. If they had cause not to certify, then by all means I think they have the responsibility to do that. If they did not, and now that they've come back and said, oops, we changed our mind -- this is pretty important. People want to make sure that every vote is counted. If there is some irregularities -- and I think what the problem gets into all of this, people say no fraud, which is true, but there are irregularities in probably every election, and irregularity doesn't necessarily mean it's illegal, either. So that's why the system is set up to handle irregularities in an election. Got that. And we ought to all support that.

What we shouldn't be doing is trying to use the weight of a particular responsibility to change the outcome. That is absolutely what we don't need and would be a violation, in my mind, certainly of who we stand for as Americans at the very least.

BERMAN: Mr. Chairman, Madam Chairman, Chairwoman, I should say, Maggie Haberman, thank you very much for both being with us this morning.

We were just talking about Michigan. We're going to talk much more about that. Is this the end? Could the Trump campaign push this even further to try to overthrow the will of the people in Michigan? The governor, Gretchen Whitmer, joins us next.

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[08:16:44]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: There was a lot of drama in Michigan last night.

First, election officials in Wayne County, Michigan, which includes the city of Detroit, tried to block the certification of votes in the presidential election that would confirm Biden's win.

Then there was outcry, then they reversed their position.

Here's what Michigan's Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson just told us about this drama.

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JOCELYN BENSON (D), MICHIGAN SECRETARY OF STATE: A lot of this is just really a strategy to erode public confidence in what was a very well-run, secure election and we see this as a battle front not just in Michigan but as you've mentioned, around the country. And so, it's also important that we call it out for what it is. I mean, these efforts are not going to be successful. The people have spoken. And the election has occurred.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK. Let's bring in the governor of Michigan, Gretchen Whitmer.

Good morning, Governor.

GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D), MICHIGAN: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Can you just tell us where you were and what you said out loud when you heard that the Wayne County Republicans were trying not to certify the election results?

WHITMER: I was here at the residence and I'm not going to tell you precisely what I said, but you can imagine it was just kind of mind- boggling. This is a ministerial duty that these board members have up -- you know, has taken an oath to uphold and this was incredibly distressing for that short period of time that it stood and then they came back and I just want to give kudos to all of the activists who organized and waited in line to have their comments heard.

I think that they really changed the outcome here and I have every expectation that as this goes to the state board of canvassers next week, that the process of finalizing the results will be completed as our law requires and that the will of the voters will be respected.

CAMEROTA: Well, let's just talk about your optimism about that because it differs from the Trump team's legal -- one of the lawyers on that team. Here is what Jenna Ellis, the senior legal adviser to President Trump said last night when this was unfolding before they reversed themselves.

Breaking: This evening, the county board of canvassers in Wayne County, Michigan, refused to certify the election results. If the state board follows suit, the Republican state legislature will select the electors. Huge win for Donald Trump.

It sounds like that is their plan. So why are you confident they can't pull that off?

WHITMER: Well, the law is clear and the vote was overwhelming. Joe Biden won Michigan by 14 times the number of votes that Donald Trump won Michigan in 2016. We had a full, free, fair and secure election. The will of the people will stand and I think, you know, we've got to go into this with, of course, bracing ourselves for more shenanigans.

But at the end of the day, the will of the people will be respected and Joe Biden won Michigan.

CAMEROTA: I want to talk to you about what's happening with coronavirus in your state. The cases are spiking as we're seeing in so many states right now. So you have put in some new restrictions in place for the next three weeks.

No in-person learning for high school or college. Indoor dining at bars and restaurants now prohibited. Nonessential workers must work from home. Movie theaters, group fitness classes, casinos must close.

Not everyone is happy about this as you well know. The Michigan Restaurant and Lodging Association is suing the state now, and their rationale is that you're punishing restaurants, they basically say.

[08:20:09]

I'll read quickly a bit of their lawsuit.

They say: Plaintiffs have shown themselves highly capable of following the comprehensive protocols that have been in place for several months. There is no reason in-person dining should be entirely prohibited now, especially while other businesses are permitted to be open such as getting a tattoo or a haircut, why can't you eat a meal indoors?

What's your response?

WHITMER: Yeah. So, first let me say, you know, the restaurant industry has really had a tough year because of COVID, because there's not been a national strategy and we have seen COVID just explode across the country in waves.

This is really driven by our epidemiologists and our public health experts that tell us it's inherently dangerous with the kind of community spread that we have all across Michigan and all across the Midwest and frankly all across the country, the inherently dangerous situations are when you are inside with people from a different household or many different households for a prolonged period of time with masks off. That's what happens in restaurants.

And that's why it's really going to be critical that the feds get their act together and give us some stimulus support for these small businesses, for these restaurant workers. I have incredible empathy for what they're struggling with and yet we have to follow the epidemiology, the public health experts and make decisions that combat the spread before our hospitals get overwhelmed and before we have 1,000 deaths a week in Michigan because that's what the modeling is telling us where we're headed right now.

CAMEROTA: Are your hospitals at capacity yet?

WHITMER: They're filling up and we've been, you know, loading up on PPE, the hospitals have, the state has, but we are burning through it quickly because the incredible heightened need here. And think about how important PPE is to triage the crisis. But all of that's going to be incredibly important as we start to vaccinate people next year as well.

And so, still not having a national strategy nine months in is inherently dangerous, and I'm grateful that the NGA executive board of which I'm a member is meeting, having conversations with the incoming administration and the current administration because it's really important that states no matter who leads them, are -- it's very clear we all need the stimulus to happen. Lives are on the line and we need to be able to meet the needs of our people.

CAMEROTA: And a phone call is happening tomorrow, right, about all of this? And are you saying that there is some coordination between the transition teams and different administrations?

WHITMER: I'm saying that, you know, we as an organization have reached out to the current administration and the incoming administration. The needs are real, they are dire, they transcend party line and it's urgent.

And so, we are doing everything we can, Republicans and Democrats alike, to keep people safe and to get this stimulus done. Yesterday, I did a PSA with my fellow governors here in the Midwest, Republican and Democratic to urge people to mask up and to stay home for the holiday. We've got to work together to get our arms around this virus.

CAMEROTA: But are you getting cooperation from the Trump administration?

WHITMER: As of yet, we've not seen action happen in Washington, D.C., but we're not giving up.

CAMEROTA: Governor Gretchen Whitmer, thank you very much. Great to have you on.

WHITMER: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Breaking overnight, Pfizer reporting another round of success with its coronavirus vaccine and taking a crucial step forward towards getting it approved.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us with all the details, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:27:41]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right.

Breaking news: Pfizer has reported new data from its coronavirus vaccine trial showing it's 95 percent effective and pretty soon, the company will ask the government for manual use approval.

Joining us is CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, and Rick Bright, former vaccine expert at Health and Human Services who earlier this year filed a whistleblower complaint alleging his early warning about the pandemic had been ignored and he is also part of President-elect Joe Biden's COVID-19 advisory board.

Sanjay, I want to start with this Pfizer news. It's not Pfizer news, it's not just what it's 95 percent effective. We've just learned so much more about the vaccine testing process, the results, safety, lay it all out for us.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. So this is the sort of data that we've been waiting for, for some time and I will preface by saying we're only hearing this data so far from the company itself. We obviously ultimately want to hear from the FDA and these various advisory committees about this.

But let me lay it out. Basically over the past few months, as you know, this trial has been ongoing, tens of thousands of people received a placebo, tens of thousands of people received a vaccine.

They want to see how many people essentially got COVID. And out of 170 people that received COVID, what they found was the vast majority of these people were in the placebo group, 162 in the placebo group versus eight in the vaccinated group. That's a pretty significant obviously difference, and that's where this 95 percent number comes from.

Also at the bottom there, I don't know if you can see that, but the people who got more severe illness, nine of them were in the placebo group versus one in the vaccinated group.

So, this is the sort of data that the FDA has telegraphed to us and others that they would want in order to potentially consider an emergency use authorization. And that data, that effectiveness data is pretty compelling. The other component of this was that two months now of safety data they say has been obtained and when they look at that safety data, again, the company telling us this, they say the safety data looks good and it's good enough for them to go ahead and apply for emergency use authorization.

I will point out we hadn't heard of any significant adverse effects with this Pfizer trial as we did, you remember, with the AstraZeneca trial where you had patients who did have some significant side effects. We didn't hear about any of that with Pfizer.

So, we'll see what all this data sort of leads to, but if this happens, if they apply for an emergency use authorization.