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U.S. Death Toll Surpasses 250,000 as Pandemic Rages; CNN Reports, Current, Former Trump Officials Reach Out Privately to Biden. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired November 19, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good Thursday morning to you, I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow.

Think about this number for a moment, sit with it, already more than a quarter of a million Americans have lost their lives to COVID. Hospitalizations, cases, deaths, all continuing to surge, health experts warning, still despite all this, the darkest days are ahead of us. And this as we head into the holiday season, the former acting director of the CDC warned just moments ago all of us need to scale down our Thanksgiving and holiday plans so we can actually celebrate in the future.

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DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, CDC: If we can get through this winter together and do this, the vaccines are coming. And I've never been as hopeful as I am now, but we have to come together, give people what they need through this winter so that when the spring comes, we can have a new beginning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Listen to those words there, patience for a new beginning.

Also this morning, President-elect Biden says the Trump administration's transition roadblocks could delay the distribution of a vaccine when it's ready, real consequences to this. Prompting growing fears that the current president is adding fuels to an already out of control pandemic. Deliberately? We have a lot to get to this hour.

Let's begin with CNN's Natasha Chen, she is in Florida, a state dealing with yet another surge, but, Natasha, it appears, not confronting it.

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, the state crossed 900,000 cases yesterday. And since we last spoke with you, there has been a lot more cars joining the line here for COVID testing. And, you know, this line goes all the way back this direction to your right. And the testing happens all the way in the garage. So this is really intense.

We've met some people in the line who tell us that they want to get tested before the holidays, before they see their families. There's one teacher we spoke to who is particularly concerned about this rise in cases and says with Florida being in phase three with no capacity restrictions on businesses, maybe it's time to consider rolling that back, but we haven't heard much from Governor DeSantis on any changes like that.

The concern is similar across the country, and let's show you a graph of why that is. The seven-day average of new confirmed cases is now exceeding 150,000 daily cases, an average that we haven't seen since the pandemic began, the positivity rate right now across the country hovering around 10 percent, also as bad or worse than it was since the beginning of the summer. And the hospitals are being taxed. If you look at this map of which states are in red, those are the ones that saw record hospitalizations on Wednesday and the seven-day average for people hospitalized, that is shooting upward, higher than it's ever been. Unfortunately, the new confirmed deaths also, that seven-day average, not as bad as the beginning of the pandemic but also trending in a very troubling direction.

And as I mentioned, there were some people we spoke to, a couple of women who said they clean hospitals for a living, a couple of guys here waiting in line, who said they may have been exposed to someone who's positive. So there is concern growing here.

And we have asked governor's office, Governor DeSantis' press office why he hasn't publicly addressed coronavirus since at least early November, when you compare to the summer surge when he was giving pretty regular press conferences, right now, local jurisdictions can't really super cede what the state is asking for. They can have local mask mandates but they can't actually restrict capacity of restaurants, for example, without telling the state the economic impact of that. Jim and Poppy?

SCIUTTO: And it's those indoor spaces where the data shows that this virus is spreading. Natasha Chen, thanks very much.

There is encouraging news, and this is important for the people most vulnerable to the virus.

[10:05:01]

According to British researchers, AstraZeneca's coronavirus vaccine appears to work safely in older people, some of the most vulnerable.

HARLOW: Let's find out what that means, big picture. Our Health Reporter, Jacqueline Howard is with us. Good morning, Jacqueline. How significant is that?

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Yes, this is significant. It's pretty promising. What we know, these new study results just came out and they do suggest that AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccine candidate was found to be well tolerated in older adults and it was found to elicit a similar immune response as we've seen in younger adults. So we all know that's promising because older adults are at an increased risk for a severe disease.

And these data are coming out right after we heard from Pfizer and Moderna on their COVID-19 vaccine candidates. And when it comes to those two companies, they are more likely to be the first to submit their data to the FDA, but now that we're hearing from AstraZeneca, this just adds to the growing hope that is out there for these vaccine candidates.

SCIUTTO: All right. So what traps are there still to run through, not just for AstraZeneca, but the Pfizer, the Moderna vaccines that have also shown enormous progress in the last few days?

HOWARD: Right. There are more steps here. We have to think about storage and distribution, we have to think about how many people are willing to take the vaccine. But also we have to think about the number of doses we have for the U.S. population.

Here is a timeline of how many doses we might expect in the coming months when it comes to Pfizer and Moderna. By the end of December we expect to have about 40 million doses, in January, another 50 million, and February and March another 60. If you add those all up, that adds to about 150 million doses.

But keep in mind, this is a two-dose shot, so you need two doses per person. 150 million only would vaccinate about 75 million people. There are 330 million Americans in this country. So there is hope that there could be more than just two vaccine candidates which could help with vaccinating more people. So that's something to watch as more data come out from different vaccine makers.

SCIUTTO: Yes, this would go from a medical challenge overcome now, it appears, to a logistical, a supply challenge. Jacqueline Howard, thanks so much.

Well, all students in New York City public schools have now transitioned to remote learning and, sadly, until further notice.

HARLOW: Yes, dealing with it in our house this morning. This comes after the city yesterday reached that 3 percent positivity rate threshold.

Let's go to Polo Sandoval, he's in New York following the developments.

I ask this as a journalist and as a parent, who's going through it. I know this is the threshold the mayor said, but the governor had questioned if that's the right call. And the governor has the power to override what the mayor has done here in New York City, does he not?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He absolutely does. And in this case, the governor, at this point, at least so far, Jim and Poppy, Andrew Cuomo was saying that it is the mayor's prerogative to actually shutdown the schools at least for now and hoping to prevent this sort of whiplash effect for many parents since last week. Mayor Bill de Blasio had been warning them that not only was this possible but it was very likely as we got closer to that 3 percent threshold number. Of course, we're talking about that seven-day positivity rate that we reached yesterday so as a result schools are closed here.

And this is obviously and understandably fueling frustrations for parents. There is, as you point, the additional burden of seeking child care, but also the big argument that many parents here have for the mayor, they're trying to petition the mayor today, is, you stop in-person teaching but keep bars, restaurants and gyms open. Of course, to that point we have heard from officials that you should hold that, that is still a very real possibility, we could possibly get there.

But then one concern here coming from one local official who said that this remote learning has the possibility of actually hurting many of the students, perhaps those most vulnerable, talking about those who perhaps those who live in home homeless shelters, those who do not have internet service or those who perhaps require special education teaching.

And then the governor, again, going back to Andrew Cuomo, in some remarks just yesterday saying, look, he certainly understands the mayor's action here but at the same time he would have liked to see the schools closed, especially with the infection rate in the schools, which is relatively low. In fact, the governor yesterday is saying schools often have a lower infection rate than the surrounding communities. So my preference, the governor says, is always to keep schools open unless there is a high infection rate, which there is not. Again, that number still about 1.7 percent, so it's very minimal.

And many parents here in New York, Jim and Poppy, feel like their kids might actually be safer in class. As for reopening, that could potentially happen as early as the week after Thanksgiving, but we'll have to see if that changes.

[10:10:05]

HARLOW: Okay. We appreciate the reporting. Polo, thank you very much.

Dr. Leana Wen is here, emergency physician at George Washington University, formerly the Baltimore health commissioner.

So you know what it's like as a health commissioner of a big city to deal with big, hard, impossible decisions like this. But the fact that in the schools, the latest reading was a 0.17 infection rate there. Was this a -- was this a wise move knowing all the negative consequences also of kids staying at home? By the way, most parents can't work from home. The reality is most people are essential workers and they have to leave to go do their job and that either leaves their kid alone or it leaves them with child care if they can scrape the money together to pay for it.

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Yes, Poppy, this is such a difficult situation, because on the one hand, I understand that New York has gone through so much. They're seeing the cases surge, and they want to prevent a situation like what New York saw in March or April. But on the other hand, we also know exactly as you said, the many challenges that come from school closures. And I think a lot of people are just really upset that why is it that bars and restaurants and gyms are open but schools are not, shouldn't schools be considered essential.

I think it ultimately depends on what is the problem that we're trying to solve. If the problem is that we're concerned about community spread, then schools are not a significant

contributor to community spread, especially elementary school. So that's not the right solution. But if the problem that we're trying to solve is that teachers are really concerned about their own health, that maybe there are some other things that we can do, maybe we can invest more resources at the schools, provide N95 masks, allow some teachers to work from home who are particularly vulnerable, but solve for the right problem here.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Okay. Let's talk nationally because you wrote in a new Washington Post op-ed that people need to stop talking about a lockdown, which, by the way, the president-elect said he's not in favor of. But you say, it's also important to have a compromised strategy. Because for this to work, you have to bring in a bigger tent here, you can't have a blue state strategy and a red state strategy. So what is that compromise that actually works to save lives?

WEN: So, we know that a national lockdown is just not going to happen. I mean, we have governors that have not even imposed mask mandates at this point. The idea they're going to agree to a lockdown is just not going to happen. We also know that half of the American people are saying that they're not going to abide by a stay-at-home order.

There are targeted measures that we can implement, including mask mandates, including reducing these highest risk settings, including asking people for the time being, not for forever, but as a temporary measure, to not get together indoors with people because we know that hope is on the horizon here, that we have to get through this winter.

How tragic would it be if we know that a vaccine is coming but people are dying in unprecedented numbers now? So I think we can frame this very differently. Let's not talk about a lockdown, that conjures up this all or nothing response but actually let's talk about temporary measures in conveying compassion and empowerment rather than sow confusion and anger.

HARLOW: We just heard, I'm not sure if you saw it, but from a single mother of a 14-year-old boy. Her name is Karen Smith, last hour. And her story is absolutely tragic. She's scraping to get by, her son said, well, we should get an R.V. and live in a Walmart parking lot. And she had a good job at the Department of Ed back in March.

For people like her, there are millions of them in this country now, can you speak to Congress from a public health perspective of why additional stimulus matter so much for people's health? WEN: Absolutely. We have asked people to give up so much in this pandemic. And in the absence of a national response, we've seen a lot of people step up, including millions upon millions of Americans who have done exactly the right thing and unfortunately have lost their livelihoods and have lost so much in their lives.

We need to help them through this. We need to recognize that something like housing and food, these are also health care issues as well. How are we going to ask people to quarantine, for example, if they have nowhere to live? We need have to get people through this very challenging period.

We can do it as a country. We could unify and get together and hunker down to get through the next several months. But we can't do it without congressional support.

SCIUTTO: There is a new, Dr. Wen, CDC ensemble forecast encompassing a number of forecasters here that projects up to 298,000 deaths from COVID-19 by December 12th, so about three weeks away. That's a daunting figure there. Tell us what we can do to stop that from happening.

WEN: Well, the number of deaths that we're going to see in three weeks' time or four weeks' time reflects the actions that we all take right now.

[10:15:03]

And I am so worried about what's coming up with Thanksgiving. And I also just want to say, I understand, I understand that people are worried, they're stressed, they haven't seen their loved ones, they want to see their loved ones now more than ever. But we really cannot do that in person, indoors safely this Thanksgiving.

Also, having one test is not sufficient. Some people are getting a test thinking, well, that will make it safe for me to see my loved ones, but the test only measures your COVID activity at this point in time. And I think it is just so critical for everyone to remember that if you want to see people indoors, you have to quarantine and then get tested. That's the only way you can do this safely. And, otherwise, we just should hunker down, use an abundance of caution and plan for Thanksgiving in July.

SCIUTTO: It saves lives. It appears to be as simple as that. Dr. Leana Wen always good to have you on, we appreciate it.

WEN: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Still to come this hour, as President Trump falsely cries fraud, top current and former officials are reaching out to President- elect Biden's team to cooperate regardless of what the president claims.

And Georgia, we've been waiting for this, is expected to announce the results of the hand recount today. Spoiler alert, the results do not change the fact that President-elect Biden won that state. HARLOW: Also, South Dakota is one of the top five states in the country with new cases per capita. The governor there still not issuing a mask mandate. But in the biggest city, Sioux Falls, they just have. The mayor joins us.

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[10:20:00]

SCIUTTO: President Trump claims he won the election, several members of his own administration don't believe that, and CNN has learned that several current and former Trump administration officials are quietly reaching out to President-elect Joe Biden and his transition team. This leads to delays in the formal transition of power stalled by the current president and stalling the incoming administration's hiring process and access crucially to classified intelligence.

CNN's Joe Johns joins me now from the White House. So, Joe, you have folks who work inside that building behind you who, in effect, are defying the president here, acknowledging the election results and reaching out to help the president-elect.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Right. And it's kind of obvious the motivation for that is an analysis of what's good for the government, what's good for the country. I did reach out to the White House today to ask them to comment on our reporting that there is a backchannel effort of some people in the administration, even some former officials admitting on the record that they're talking to the Biden transition.

Didn't get any response at all from the White House, so it's not really surprising, it's not only awkward but people here are also well aware of what happens to officials in the government who dare to cross the president on an issue that he's sort of dug in on. Nonetheless, there are apparently people doing that. A couple quotes from colleagues, once that there's been informal outreach from inside the Trump government to the Biden team, nothing that would get them in trouble, the quote says, an offer of help.

And the Biden people essentially say, backchannel isn't good enough or it requires more than former officials stepping forward, GSA, the services administration, should follow the law and ascertain the results of the election. So this ascertainment issue, the acknowledgement by the Trump government of Joe Biden as the president- elect is important, especially over at HHS because, as you know, they're trying to roll out a vaccine.

And, by the way, some people here at the White House say their rollout plan is already on the record so there's nothing Biden really needs. But, of course, Biden could have different priorities. Jim and Poppy?

HARLOW: Joe, thank you for the reporting. Joe Johns at the White House for us.

Let's go to Georgia now, kind of an important state, especially in the next eight weeks where a statewide audit is now being complete. Officials are finishing up the results that will come soon but not change anything.

SCIUTTO: Yes. They counted the ballots by hand.

CNN's Amara Walker is in Atlanta. Amara, some counties have uncovered votes not originally counted but, big picture, this has not changed the outcome, Joe Biden won the state, is that right?

AMARA WALKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. If you talk to the Georgia secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, Jim, he has been maintaining that he is confident that the results of this hand tally are going to reflect what we saw from the original tally. As you said, the report of this audit is expected out around noon and we already known that 112 of the 159 counties have reported virtually no discrepancies.

But like you mentioned, Jim, what's been getting a lot of attention is the fact that more than 5,800 uncounted ballots were discovered during this audit process. And out of -- in the three of the four cases, what happened was the ballots were scanned onto a memory card, but the last step of uploading that memory card onto the county systems did not happen. The state election officials say, look, this was human error, these were isolated incidents and it's not a sign of widespread fraud.

HARLOW: Also, look at the sort of Republican makeup of those counties, which is also notable here that the president is complaining about that. Is it the case that state election officials expect him to request another recount?

[10:25:04]

WALKER: They are working, Poppy, under the assumption that the Trump campaign, President Trump will be requesting a recount. They are allowed to do so under the law and they have until Tuesday to request a recount and the state has already procured a high-speed scanner. So they are expecting it, although they're saying, look, we don't want to put our election workers through this laborious process again, because they do expect is that if there's a recount, it'll be done by computers, which means that the results will be virtually the same as the hand audit, Poppy.

SCIUTTO: So, just to be clear, Amara, they've done a hand recount, if there's another recount, it would be a computer recount, is that --

WALKER: Right. So, technically, this is an audit under the state law, a new state law that was passed in 2019. But, yes, if there were a recount, it would be done by computer scanners, correct.

SCIUTTO: Understood, okay.

HARLOW: Okay. Thanks, Amara, for the reporting.

South Dakota's largest city is instituting a mask mandate. They've just done this now, even as the governor of the state refuses to do that. But does it go far enough? The mayor of Sioux Falls is with us, next.

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