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Erin Burnett Outfront
As Trump Intensifies Effort to Subvert Election, Source Says President is Delaying Transition to Get Revenge on Dems; Source: Allies Urged Trump to let Transition Begin Even Without a Concession, Trump Tells them they're "Absolutely Wrong"; Trump Invites Michigan GOP Leaders to WH as He Intensifies Efforts to Overturn Election; Awaiting Results of GA Statewide Hand Recount; Trump Urges State's GOP Governor to "Get Tough". Aired 7-8p ET
Aired November 19, 2020 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:00]
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: May they rest in peace and may their memories be a blessing.
Erin Burnett OUTFRONT starts right now.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, vengeance. The President intensifying his desperate efforts to overturn the election results in Michigan. Sources tell CNN Trump himself knows he lost. The Michigan Governor is my guest.
Plus, awaiting the results of Georgia statewide recount. President Trump baselessly claiming the state will flip, urging the Governor to 'get tough'. Stacey Abrams, the former candidate for governor and the woman credited with turning Georgia blue responds OUTFRONT.
And the CDC issuing a warning against travel for the Thanksgiving holiday, warning one week before the holiday. Will Americans listen? Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, Trump out for revenge and taking the country down with him in this effort. A source telling CNN that the President now knows he lost, but he is determined to burn the house down just to prove a point. He believes it's fair game to not recognize Biden as the President-elect, even though, of course, Clinton conceded election night.
And other sources also telling CNN that Trump's heard from a number of friends and business associates, all of them, all of them, urging him let the transition begin even if he doesn't want to concede. Trump's answer, though, according to one source, no, you're wrong. Absolutely wrong.
Trump desperately trying to cling to power and undermine the will of the people. He has taken the unprecedented step of inviting Michigan Republican state lawmakers to the White House, hoping he can twist their arms into overturning the election there. Now, that strategy is legally dubious at its very, very best. And
let's just be clear here with what happened in Michigan, he lost the state by 157,000 votes. And the Republican state majority leader and House Speaker in Michigan have said they will do the right thing that they're going to honor the popular vote of their state, the will of the people of Michigan.
The President also called the two Republican members of Wayne County, Michigan's Board of Canvassers. Late last night, they asked to then rescind their votes to certify the election results in Detroit. So they were going to go ahead and certify the results and here's the results, and then President calls them and all of a sudden, no, they want to block it.
The Michigan Secretary of State's office says it's impossible but the President of the United States picked up the phone and called them and got them to try to block the results of the votes of the people. Trump doing everything he can to unleash a torrent of strife and hatred, distrust and resentment. And Biden, the polar opposite here, keeping incredible calm and both tone and substance, refusing to spar with Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: What the President is doing now is really - it's just going to be another incident where he will go down in history as being one of most irresponsible presidents in American history. It's just out of the - not even within the norm at all. There's questions whether it's even legal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So let's just be clear again that there are no questions on the outcome of the Presidential race. Despite Trump's best efforts, which are led by none other than Rudy Giuliani. He has jumped headlong into Trump's Pandora's Box. Today Giuliani clinging to every second of camera time he could get, 90 minutes, hurling out accusations one after another about the election. Allegations that are so far-fetched, they're laughable.
Rudy Giuliani today actually talking about mass voter fraud in the election and saying it's part of a communist plot associated with Venezuela, Hugo Chavez, George Soros and the Clinton Foundation. So if you're a conspiracy theorist, pick whichever one of those is your buzzwords. But the thing is, is that conspiracy theories like these are actually not funny, because plenty of people right now believe them.
In the whole 90 minutes of one thing after another, this diatribe of anger, Giuliani only holding up one single affidavit. One. And the facts here that multiple judges now have rejected Trump's allegations of election fraud, voters have dropped nearly every case claiming suspicions of fraud. Just today, a state judge in Pennsylvania rejecting the campaign's
efforts to throw out 2,000 absentee ballots and in that all is important State of Michigan now, the Trump campaign itself dropped another lawsuit trying to block the certification of the State's election results. Trump tweeting in response, "We withdrew because we won."
To state the obvious, if withdrawing a lawsuit and giving up happens because you are winning then the word needs a serious redefinition. But this is how the President is spending his time, tweeting about how he won an election that he lost. It has been 16 days since President Trump last took questions from reporters. There have been 12 days since the election that he has not had a single public event on his schedule.
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It has been six days since he's actually been seen in public. But since election day, he has found time to tweet more than 460 times, saying that he won again and again, saying that he won states he lost by 10s and hundreds of thousands of votes. Is there any question why his supporters don't have faith in the American system?
A poll from Monmouth University just found seven in 10 Republicans say Biden one only because of voter fraud. This is untrue and what's taking place inside the White House right now is deeply concerning to many, including at least one Republican, Mitt Romney.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): The consequences of what's happening during this lame duck period, I think are potentially more severe than the consequences associated with a late transition process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Boris Sanchez is OUTFRONT near the White House. Jeff Zeleny is in Wilmington, Delaware with the President-elect.
Let me start with you tonight, Boris. President Trump putting personal revenge now ahead of everything.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Erin. And as the days pass and these legal challenges fail, and we watch Rudy Giuliani make these false desperate claims, it becomes just clearer and clearer that this is personal for President Trump. He's not only angry about having lost the election, he's angry about the way that he perceives he's been treated by Democrats and others since 2016.
The reporting, as you noted, indicates that a source close to the President says that he's told at least one ally that he knows he lost the election. But he knows that this deficit that he's facing against Joe Biden in a number of states have 10s of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of votes, is insurmountable. But he doesn't want to concede because he doesn't want to help Democrats. He wants to hurt them by trying to claim that this election was a legitimate. When he's been approached by allies who've suggested that he should
concede that he should even reconsider this legal strategy with Rudy Giuliani exclaiming nonsense from the podium, the President has chastised these allies. And further, he seeks to potentially further harm democracy by getting intimately involved in the certification process in the State of Michigan.
You noted the President calling these officials in Wayne County who initially objected to certifying the results then relented and now after speaking to the President suddenly want to somehow rescind those results. And now the President also inviting top Republicans from Michigan to the White House. It is clear at this point, the President is blatantly putting himself before the country, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Boris, thank you very much.
And I want to go to Jeff Zeleny. So Jeff, what is team Biden's strategy on all of this? Obviously, a starkly different tone from Joe Biden, not getting into the sort of flinging of mud that's going on out there whatsoever, but what's the strategy?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORREPONDENT: The strategy is he has a job to do and he will be the President of the United States in about two months, so they're moving forward. Every day they are moving forward. We've seen every single day this week there's been an event - today it was with bipartisan governors. He met with five Republican governors, five Democratic governors talking about the matter at hand, coronavirus.
Every single day President-elect Biden has been talking about how he would do the job. And Erin, I'm told that they are actually going to move up and expedite their cabinet nominations as well. We heard Mr. Biden say it today. He's already settled on his treasury secretary decision that will come just before or after Thanksgiving, so they are moving forward to form a government.
That is not being done unnecessarily by design. I was told a couple weeks ago here in Wilmington that they were going to be slow about this. They were going to wait and see the outcome of those Georgia runoffs. That is not the case anymore.
They're moving ahead. They're forming their government. Never mind that the transition is still on hold. They want to have a government in place. So part of this is optics and part of this is showing the American people again, a stark contrast between Joe Biden and Donald Trump on coronavirus. So he's leading and acting like he has the job already.
So he's on the job as President-elect. That is what they're doing here, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Jeff Zeleny, thank you.
And I want to go OUTFRONT now to Constitutional Law Professor at Harvard Law School, Laurence Tribe. Also, of course, he was a member of Al Gore's legal team for Bush v. Gore in the year 2000. So Professor Tribe, well, I'm always glad to have you back. I'm not happy on the circumstances yet again, but here we are. OK.
So President Trump's inviting Republican lawmakers from Michigan to the White House. He's trying to overturn the election results and the will of the people in that state, which Joe Biden won by about 157,000 votes. So they have this game plan to try to block the certification of the results in the hopes that the GOP-led legislature would then say, OK, we're going to put pro-Trump electors in there. Are you worried Trump could actually get his way here, Professor?
LAURENCE TRIBE, HARVARD LAW PROFESSOR: I don't think he's going to get his way. He's clearly not going to remain president. Joe Biden will be the President. But I am worried that any lawmakers who attend this ridiculous meet and greet are really attending a conspiratorial meeting to steal the election.
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There's no question that the meeting that is being held is illegal. There's no question that it really is designed quite corruptly to take away people's right to vote, 157,000 more people voted for Joe Biden than Donald Trump in Michigan. Those results are cretified.
It's ridiculous to suggest that he has any legal basis to do anything. There is a 1954 law in Michigan that says that when you do not have a winner of the popular vote, then there's a special role for the legislature. That's not this situation. So what's going on is just a conspiracy to steal people's votes.
BURNETT: And obviously, as I said, the Republican State Majority Leader, the House Speaker there have said that they want to honor the popular vote, the will of the people. The plan seems far-fetched at best, by the way you lay it out. Is there any recourse though if they succeed?
TRIBE: Well, the recource is for the Congress of the United States on January 6th when it comes to the votes to count the real votes from the electors who are selected by the state of Michigan, not the Trump sort of imposter electors who I don't imagine will show up. But if they do, they'll have no standing.
That is the Electoral College, when it votes on December 14th is going to put Michigan and 16 votes squarely in the column of Joe Biden, we're not going to need to go to court to enforce that. It's obviously the way the system works. They have given up going to court to get their way to circumvent the rules, the system is working smoothly, except for Murphy and she's holding up the transition illegally.
BURNETT: Right. She's the person at the GSA in charge of authorizing it.
TRIBE: Right.
BURNETT: And of course I should say in Michigan when you see people's - upstanding people of both parties, they're going to do what they should do this time. The state went for Biden. Last time, by fewer than 10,000 votes it went for Trump and they honored that as they should have, so this is the way it goes.
So Professor, you have been tracking and I mentioned that there's been court cases today that have been dismissed that the campaign's even given up on and withdrawn which Trump counted as a win. What is your latest tally for the Trump record here in the courts?
I think Trump has lost 27, he may have won one depending on whether you counted or win to be told, yes, perhaps the watchers have to move a few feet closer or something like that. Just trivial little things, but they've basically lost almost all 28 of the cases. And it's quite clear that Republican as well as Democratic judges are going to follow the law when there's no ambiguity.
The only guy who seems to be uninterested in the law is Rudy Giuliani and god knows what he's auditioning for.
BURNETT: So let me ask you about him because we saw that press conference 90 minutes where he threw out every code word he could for anyone who wants to be into conspiracy theory, Hugo Chavez, George Soros in Venezuela. One affidavit produced during the entire thing, he even reenacted a scene from the movie My Cousin Vinny. What is your reaction to this coming from Rudy Giuliani who, of course, had a long and respected career until we are seeing this at best unfortunate unraveling?
TRIBE: It's really sad. I mean, it's hard to feel sorry for somebody who is working with the President to undermine democracy. But it's pathetic, I mean, what a way to end the career that at one point reached some distinction. He was America's mayor, he inspired some people after 9/11, he is really a pathetic shadow of his former self. I am actually sorry for the guy, but he's doing harm. They're all doing harm, especially the President.
He's not going to remain president, but he wants to undermine the government of the United States from a perch wherever he is going to be hiding. He's going to be trying to inspire his followers to undermine the government and Americans of all stripes are going to be hurt. Whether they voted for or against Trump, they're going to be hurt by the delay and dealing with the coronavirus. They're being hurt by the undermining of our National Security.
It's not just Democrats who are going to suffer, it's everybody. And I think it's really a shame to watch these people cooperate in undermining the country.
BURNETT: Professor Tribe, thank you very much. I appreciate your time tonight.
TRIBE: Thank you.
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BURNETT: And on the back of the professor's comments, I want to go to our Chief Political Analyst, Gloria Borger who broke that reporting this hour about the growing number of people telling President Trump to move on and accept his loss. And longtime Republican donor Dan Eberhart. And Dan, you and I have
spoken just a couple of days ago. I wanted to start with you, because of this latest that now President Trump, the sitting president, is trying to overturn the election results in Michigan. A state that he lost by about 157,000 votes. What's at stake here, Dan?
DAN EBERHART, GOP DONOR: Well, I think what's at stake here really is the Republican Party and the Republican brand, it seems to me that Trump is asking us as Republicans to attend a funeral of credibility here right now. I mean, I think we've lost the race, unfortunately, and I think it's time to move on and that's what I hope that Trump will do soon, although it doesn't look like that.
BURNETT: And, Gloria, this is happening, Trump's refusal here, despite what you're hearing, which is that the people that he will take calls from, his friends and business associates, they are telling him to move on. They're telling him to at least let Biden begin his transition even if he is not ready to formally concede, you can have those two things at the same time.
But the President has made it clear. He thinks they're dead wrong, why?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: He says you're absolutely wrong and far be it for me to try and psychoanalyze Donald Trump. My colleague, Dana Bash, suggests through her reporting that this is all about the revenge you were talking about earlier, because he felt that the Democrats never legitimized his presidency and that he was going to do the same to Joe Biden.
I think that in his own mind, it goes beyond that, because a source that I was speaking with says, look, he's never going to admit that he lost. He has to find something to blame it on, so he's going to blame it on the rigged election. And that even when his friends and business associates say to him, this isn't going to be good for you in the in the long-term, you're going to hurt your brand. It's going to hurt your hotels. People aren't going to lend you money.
And his response is, I have 70 million votes behind me. I have power and I can do anything I want. So if he's not going to be the king, he wants to be the kingmaker.
BURNETT: So Dan, 48 hours ago, when we spoke, you told me the President need to accept his loss and move on for himself for the party, for the country, you talked about his legacy. But here we are, it's 48 hours, and nothing has changed. If anything's changed it may have gotten worse. So what do you say, Dan, right now that it appears that this, as Gloria is reporting, this really is about personal revenge for him?
EBERHART: Well, first of all, I think that the Trump seems to have taken the lesson from business where a lawsuit can cause your enemy or your opponent a little bit of harm and cost them money and credibility and draw things out? He doesn't seem to realize that or he does realize maybe, but throwing sand in the machinery of government is really causing a lot of harm right now to both the country and the Republican brand.
What I think Trump is trying to do is he's trying to freeze the field, keep his supporters in place and maintain the base for the 2022 midterms and beyond of what he's doing is destructive and he really needs to stop for the good of the country. You can't relive or replay the fourth quarter, once it's over, you've got to move on and think about the next game or the next season or whatever.
And I really urge other Republicans, it's time to be a Mitt Romney Republican right now and focus on being gracious, being calm and where the country needs to go. I think that's leadership. I think that's presidential leadership. I call on Donald Trump to do that to do it now, to do it yesterday.
BURNETT: Gloria, Mitt Romney, of course, has been on a pretty lonely island when it comes to behaving that way with like Dan says with the great graciousness.
BORGER: Right.
BURNETT: Gloria, to Dan's point, does the President realize his actions could backfire on him or really does he have some sort of a plan here where he thinks 70 million people are going to stay with him, he's going to be running some sort of, I don't know, like government in exile?
BORGER: I don't know. He doesn't seem to have a plan and when I talked to my sources and asked them, have you told them that this is hurting democracy? Have you told them that this isn't good for the Republican Party? Have told them that this is actually anti-Democratic?
And the answer is, it doesn't matter what you say, he doesn't see it and that is a quote, he doesn't see how bad the aftermath of all of this could be not only for him personally, of course, but for the country. But that is not his concern right now. His concern is that he needs to find a way to back out because he's going to lose without looking like a loser, which he thinks is the worst thing in the world.
And so he's, I guess, trying to work this through or not, because, in the end, I don't expect him to concede I don't expect him to be gracious.
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I think in one way or another, he'll walk out the back door and drop the mic somewhere but to an adoring crowd, perhaps, but he just doesn't see what this is doing to the country because he can't see beyond himself.
BURNETT: Thank you both very much. I appreciate your time, Dan and Gloria.
EBERHART: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, President Trump urging Georgia's Governor to get involved in the election in Georgia as we are awaiting results of the statewide audit that literally could come at any moment here. Stacey Abrams, who many credits with Biden's win in that State is with me next.
Plus, Michigan's Governor is OUTFRONT. What's her reaction to the President intensifying his efforts to overturn the results in Michigan.
And the CDC now urging Americans not to travel for Thanksgiving. Will Americans listen one week before a holiday?
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BURNETT: Breaking news, we are awaiting the results of Georgia's statewide hand recount which should be released any minute. It comes as President Trump baselessly claims Georgia will flip for Republicans as he invites Republican lawmakers from Michigan to the White House tomorrow in his ongoing effort to overturn the results of the election which he lost.
OUTFRONT now, Stacey Abrams, former Democratic candidate for governor of Georgia, also the Democratic Leader of the State House of Representatives and she's currently the founder of Fair Fight and the person the Democrats overwhelmingly are crediting for turning Georgia blue for the first time since 1992.
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Leader Abrams, I really appreciate your time tonight. The President tweeting at your former opponent in the governor's race, Republican Governor Brian Kemp to 'get tough', start rejecting ballots that the President says are fraudulent, obviously, no evidence that that is the case. Do you have any fear that Gov. Kemp could be persuaded by the President?
Stacey ABRAMS: No, first and foremost, it's the responsibility of the Secretary of State to manage and administer the elections. He has been very firm that the state has followed the law. And while Donald Trump is entitled to explore the legal mechanisms available, ultimately, what he will find out is what we have known now for 16 days that Georgia has delivered 16 Electoral College votes for Joe Biden and he will be the 46th President of the United States.
BURNETT: So Republicans have remained, Leader Abrams, pretty much silent. There are exceptions, right? We've been talking about Mitt Romney, but most of them silent as the President continues to say that he won, that it was rigged, that it's all fraud. And last week, the Senate Majority Whip, John Thune, offered a reason why and his reason is Georgia and the runoff elections.
He said to reporters, "We need his voters. He has a tremendous following. He can have a tremendously positive impact on the outcome of the Georgia Senate. We want him helping in Georgia for sure."
Do you think that's what this is about that they're all staying silent because they think they need Trump to win the Republican Senate in Georgia?
ABRAMS: Well, some are staying silent but unfortunately here in Georgia, both sitting U.S. senators as well as the eight Republican members of Congress called on the Secretary of State to resign a fellow Republican, because they were unable to manufacture sufficient evidence to undermine this election. And what is deeply concerning to me is that the effect of these false accusations and these wild conspiracy theories is that they will in fact depress participation in our democracy.
When I fought against the Secretary of State, it was to expand access to the right to vote, to encourage eligible citizens to participate, knowing their participation would not be met with intentional ways of blocking their voices. What is happening instead is an attempt to discourage and to actually exclude voices that should be included in our democracy and that shouldn't be countenanced by anyone.
BURNETT: So the Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger, has said that Lindsey Graham had called him and intimated that there should be mass rejection of ballots. Do you think he's done a good job in standing up to all of this, this time around?
ABRAMS: I appreciate the improvements that we've seen from the Secretary of State. But I don't want any of us to become complacent. The work that was done to purge 300,000 voters including nearly a hundred thousand of whom should not have been purged because of new laws in Georgia. That was implemented by Brad Raffensperger.
The battle to make certain that voters were able to cast absentee ballots had to be done through court order and to allow them to cure any mistakes in those ballots, because that was objected to by Brad Raffensperger. He has done the right thing in this instance, but we should not become sanguine about the changes that we've seen because those changes can be undone. And I think that's the underlying motive of the Republicans to reverse the mitigation of voter suppression because that was part of their plan for victory.
This time, they faced a well-armed opponent in the form of voters who understood that their right to vote should be sacrosanct. And groups like Fair Fight and others that did the work to ensure their votes would be cast and could be counted.
BURNETT: So the reason that they met that opposition and that people were registering was because of your work. I mean, you have been credited for this widely across this country, as the reason that Georgia turned blue. I mean, literally, when you have 1925 [00:04:05] anybody they say, "And we credit, we thank Stacey Abrams. It is Stacey Abrams." Everyone has said this from Hillary Clinton, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez have thanked you on Twitter, Barack Obama has talked about it. I mean, across the board. How does that feel and do you feel this incredible pressure now to do it again?
ABRAMS: Well, my responsibility has always been to defend the right to vote. And as someone who shares the values of the Democratic Party, I've worked hard to ensure that when people get a chance to vote, that they can vote for Democrats who will move policies forward, like ensuring that we get access to COVID stimulus. Like the fact that we need access to health care in the south. Doing the work of making sure jobs come back.
But I was part of a larger network of folks, what I was able to do over the last decade was build infrastructure, raise resources and scale the investment and I've been a relentless cheerleader about the possibilities of Georgia.
[19:30:02]
So I am happy to take credit for pulling attention to Georgia, but I want to make certain that we understand this was work done by many organizations and many people who would never get the credit because they could never get the resources to be seen and be heard.
And I also want to point out that the work we did in Georgia also happened around the country. That if you were in Michigan and Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, Arizona, Nevada, where voter suppression harmed your ability to vote in 2016 or 2018, there were voter protection folks on the ground in those states across the country, but particularly those states who reversed the attempts to suppress the right to vote and made certain voters could be heard.
Here in Georgia, it's been about any voter suppression, but also engaging new voters and I am proud to be part of making that a reality in Georgia in 2020.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Yeah, and I know you talked about your team. But obviously, you have been clearly credited by so many.
When you lost the governor's race, and that was in 2018, you didn't concede formally. And now, you've got Republicans, right, Lindsey Graham, bringing him up again. He's pointed that and saying there is a double standard being applied today given that and President Trump's failure to concede.
What -- what is it you think that it's important for people to understand about what you did and why it is different from what President Trump is doing now?
ABRAMS: In 2018, tens of thousands of Georgia voters were denied the right to cast ballots, to have those ballots counted. They were pushed out of the electorate through no fault of their own and in defiance of their citizenship in the United States and in the state of Georgia.
What I said on the night that I ended my campaign was, number one, I ended the campaign. I said that I acknowledged the legal sufficiency of the election but I challenged the system that permitted voters to lose their right to vote. That is something we should all decry and something we should all fight against.
In contrast, Donald Trump is decrying the system that didn't allow him to cheat, a system that permitted every voter who tried to be heard by and large to be allowed and included in the process. He is refusing to acknowledge that the system did what it was supposed to do. Now, if he dislikes the system, I say use the court system if you want
to challenge it but you have to tell the truth and you have to provide evidence. We provided not only sufficient evidence to get into federal court and see marked changes made in the state of Georgia, but we had sufficient evidence to make an entire documentary about it. And so, I would argue that the absence of evidence is proof that there is no analogous situation between what I did in 2018 and what Donald Trump is doing today.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Stacey Abrams, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.
ABRAMS: Thank you for having me.
BURNETT: All right. And next, Trump now using the power of his office to try to flip Michigan red despite losing the state by 157,000 votes. Is Michigan's governor worried? She's next. Governor Whitmer will be OUTFRONT.
And also coming up this hour, top business leaders urging the president to accept what happened, admit defeat. Trump's former economic adviser who knows him well, Gary Cohn, is my guest.
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BURNETT: Tonight, President Trump inviting Republican state lawmakers from Michigan to the White House as he tries to overturn the election results in that state. His strategy could be to try to overturn the Electoral College getting them to appoint electors for Trump even though Biden has won the popular vote in Michigan by more than 150,000 votes.
OUTFRONT now, the governor of Michigan, Democrat Gretchen Whitmer.
And, Governor, I appreciate your time.
So, the president, you know, says that he should win the state even though he lost it by 157,000 votes. What can you do about it?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D), MICHIGAN: Well, Erin, I mean, the president can say all he wants. He can summon people to the White House all he wants. He can try to interfere, which raises serious legal and ethical questions, by the way.
But the fact of the matter is Joe Biden won this state and won big by 14 times the margin that Donald Trump won Michigan in 2016. The will of the people will be done. And these efforts to disenfranchise Wayne County and majority -- where the majority of our African-American voters live is just a blatant attempt to steal the election result and disenfranchise Michigan voters and it will not stand.
BURNETT: So, we are learning, Governor, that Trump extended the invitation, as you say the summons to the White House by calling the Republican majority leader of the state Senate, Mike Shirkey. And Shirkey was asked earlier this week about this whole idea that
Republicans could, you know, overturn the election and choose to appoint electors for Trump, instead of Biden. And he said at the time, quote, that's not going to happen. We are going to follow the law and follow the process, clearly standing up for he is going to follow the will of the people.
Do you have any concerns Trump could change his mind?
WHITMER: Of course, I do. I don't know why they'd be going to the White House.
Maybe they're going to lobby for COVID funding which would be welcome here in Michigan and across the country. It's one of the things that our nation's governors, I was one of them, met with the incoming Biden administration about today. That is desperately needed.
And if that's what they're doing wonderful, but if they are going there to undermine the results of this election and disenfranchise Michigan voters and to embarrass the state of Michigan what they are doing is, runs against our law and they should be very careful because it's dangerous.
BURNETT: So, you know, you've got that invitation, right, happening, and then there is also the other story, of course, we've covered this week and you brought it up about Wayne County and Detroit. So, you know, whether they were certifying the results. So, the split Democrat and Republican team canvassers, you know, first the Republicans didn't certify the results then they did.
And then Trump called them. All right. He called them on Tuesday night and those same two officials after that phone call then said they wanted to rescind their votes and they wanted to again not certify the results of the voters of Wayne County, Michigan. Clearly, the president got them to change their mind.
Governor, do you think he violated any laws?
WHITMER: I think there's a legitimate question there. I do. I think that continuous efforts to interfere are -- could be legally unsound.
[19:40:02]
And I think they should all be very careful. They have a job to do and the job is to certify this election.
The state board needs to do that. And if they don't, there will be ramifications from it. And I really believe and hope that they follow the law, they do their jobs, they respect the will of the people of this state and don't embarrass the state of Michigan any more than it already has been, and that we certify this election and be done with it because the people of this state spoke and they spoke loudly on election day.
BURNETT: So I know you had a meeting with the president-elect's team today. You said your state is experiencing the worst week you have had during the whole pandemic this week. You've got cases surging, hospitalizations surging and the meeting you had with the president- elect today was bipartisan is my understanding, right? There's some Republican governors, some Democratic governors. The vice president- elect Kamala Harris was there as well.
So, Biden has made it clear that he supports mask mandates. You, though, have seen first-hand opposition to that. Do you think there is any chance this country will go forward with moves like that? Mask mandates?
WHITMER: You know what? I hope so. I know that a lot of my Republican counterparts have embraced mask mandates seeing how COVID is ravaging their state and knowing that this is the singular best weapon we have right now to keep us safe and keep our economy engaged. It is really on the nation's governors to show this leadership especially right now.
But I am grateful and looking forward to a Biden administration because I know that they're going to spend their energy getting their arms around COVID-19 and supporting states. We've got a herculean undertaking in terms of administering vaccines when they become available and we need the full backing and support of the federal government who takes this virus as seriously as we do
BURNETT: All right. Governor Whitmer, I appreciate your time. Thank you.
WHITMER: Thank you.
BURNETT: Governor Whitmer of Michigan.
And now, we have breaking news. We have just learned that Georgia has finished its statewide hand recount, checking every vote by hand and the results are in and they confirm that Joe Biden won the state of Georgia. His lead over President Trump confirmed.
Amara Walker is OUTFRONT.
So, Amara, they came out and said it confirms Biden won Georgia and they go into all of the details on the count and what changed and what didn't. You've read through it. What do you see?
AMARA WALKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, first off, this is exactly what state election officials had been expecting. In fact, Brad Raffensperger, the secretary of state has been saying for days now, look. I expect that this hand recount is only going to affirm the overall results, the original results of the election. But as you mentioned, the margin has changed slightly so Joe Biden's lead in Georgia is now at 12,284 votes.
If you do the math there Trump gained about 1700 votes during this audit process state election officials say and stress this was expected because it is now within the human margin of error. These votes, though, that Trump has gained obviously not enough to overcome Joe Biden's lead in Georgia so he again has been confirmed that he has won this state. The margin has shrunk because there were some uncounted ballots that
were found and also some discrepancies in the various counties, 159 here in Georgia.
Overall, election officials are saying this audit was clearly a success. What is next is on Friday, the Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger is expected to certify the final results and on Tuesday that is the day that the Trump campaign must request a recount by and the state is working under the assumption that President Trump will be asking for a recount. They have prepared for that.
And all of the counties we are told have been procured with high speed scanners in the event that a recount is requested -- Erin.
BURNETT: Another recount, after they just did a hand recount. All right. Thank you very much, Amara.
So, as you see, 12,284 votes Joe Biden winning the state of Georgia by -- 1700-vote swing in favor of Trump on that hand recount. Still, a very clean win by Joe Biden. And that is a Republican governor, a Republican secretary of state and a Republican elections chief in Georgia, making that announcement tonight.
OUTFRONT next, Trump telling anyone urging him to concede, no. So is there anyone, anyone that can get him to do the right thing? Trump's former top economic adviser Gary Cohn is my guest.
As the White House task force holds its first briefing since July, two people were missing though -- Donald Trump and his controversial doctor-in-chief.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news: a top Michigan Republican, Congressman Fred Upton says it is time for President Trump to concede. Upton saying tonight the election is, quote, all said and done, there's been no sign of widespread fraud in his state. Upton joining now many, including powerful financial figures like the CEO of JPMorgan Chase, Jamie Dimon, the CEO of Blackrock, Larry Fink, all telling the president to stop the chaotic behavior and respect the outcome of the democratic process of this country.
OUTFRONT, Gary Cohn, former director of the National Economic Council under President Trump.
Gary, let me just be clear here you were very quick to congratulate Joe Biden, recognize that he is the president-elect. What kind of damage do you think this delayed transition and just the nastiness, the fighting, the defying of facts that's happening right now is having on our country?
GARY COHN, FORMER DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, Erin, I think it's forcing us to not concentrate on what we really should be talking about day in and day out right now. We've got a massive spike in the coronavirus. And the damaging effect that's having on human life, on our health system and our economy, that's not even being talked about right now.
[19:45:06]
That is such a major we're not dealing with it. We're not dealing with the fact that we have a lame duck session of Congress, but I'm not sure they're meeting and dealing with the issue. They're not dealing with the issue that we've got unemployment benefits ending in December.
They're not dealing with the issue that small businesses are vulgar struggling and are going to struggle more and more because we're shutting down more and more of the economy. And it's literally happening every day right before our eyes.
BURNETT: It is, and when we see those lines of food banks. You know, the governor of Michigan, right, record surges in hospitalizations and we're seeing it across the country. Dr. Fauci's made it clear. You have such a surge in hospitalizations, that you're also seeing deaths go up 25 percent despite an improvement in treatment because it's overwhelming the system, as you pointed out.
We're seeing unprecedented lines at food banks across this country, Larry. Americans have lost their jobs, and yet you have stocks at basically an all-time high. So, can these two things stay true for very long?
COHN: You know, Erin, they can, because, look, we learned a lot in the first beginning of this pandemic. What we learned is when we shut down the government -- I'm sorry, when we shut down the economy, the government makes a decision. They made a decision what businesses are essential and what businesses are nonessential.
And, look, we didn't do that by accident. We did that by accident. It was a total accident what happened here. But when we deemed certain businesses to be essential, we basically gave them 100 percent of market share.
And by -- it just happened that those were the largest businesses in America. Those are the businesses that are traded on the stock market. The small businesses, the businesses that are not traded on the stock market, those are the businesses that are being damaged. Those are our local small businesses.
Those are our minority-owned businesses. Those are our family-owned businesses. Those are our women-owned businesses. Those are the businesses that are really being damaged by the pandemic here.
So both things unfortunately can be true, and what I'm worried about as we go further and further in this pandemic that we don't solve this problem, that we continue to allow the larger companies to become larger and larger -- keep making the same mistake over and over again.
BURNETT: So, you know, you have the president, right, as -- and I kind of gone through it at the beginning of the show, but 12 days where there's nothing on his public schedule, right? Yet, he's tweeted nearly 500 times, right? And most of them are things that are false about the election, all caps, I won.
So you know him. You were part of the transition that he had last time around on the National Economic Council. You're familiar with the erratic behavior, with the mercurial nature that he presents. But my question to you now, Gary, is there anyone, because you know them all, that can actually get through to him, that can break through to him and let him hear what he should do and what the country need him to do now?
COHN: Look, Erin, I don't know the answer. My best guess would be it would have to be his family and his family members. They're the people that are closest to him. They're the people he rely upon. Those are the people he trusts. And those are the people he's been with.
Remember, the president came from a family business. He's used to being surrounded by family. He's used to listening to his family. I don't think he's going to listen to an outside influencer.
BURNETT: So then, you know, what happens next? Because as you point out, this lame duck session is really important. Mitt Romney's made this point, right? He's worried about troops being drawn down and all sorts of things happening all of a sudden for reasons of vengeance or whatever it might be. But what really is at stake here in this lame duck?
I mean, you're pointing out unemployment benefits are going to end. I mean, real things are happening to real people right now because of these decisions or lack thereof.
COHN: They are. And, look, the Biden administration also deserves a normal transition. They deserve to be getting the information they should get that a normal transition would have. They deserve to be getting the funding from the GAO that they should be getting. They deserve to have the support so they can hit the ground running on January 20th.
One of the things we pride ourselves in this country is a normal peaceful transfer of power. We need to have that, and that starts literally from Election Day on. It's hard to transfer power in this country. There are a lot of jobs and a lot of offices that need to be filled.
And President-elect Biden needs to have that information at his disposal and he deserves that information to make sure he's making the best decisions to put himself in the best position on January 20th to make good decisions.
BURNETT: All right. I appreciate your time. Gary, thank you very much.
COHN: Thank you.
BURNETT: All right. Gary Cohn there.
And also breaking tonight, Dr. Anthony Fauci urging Americans to remain vigilant, saying that a vaccine will be here, quote, soon.
[19:55:07]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: We need to actually double down on the public health measures. If you're fighting a battle and the cavalry's on the way, you don't stop shooting. You keep going until the cavalry gets here and then you might even want to continue fighting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Fauci was speaking at the first coronavirus task force briefing since July. August, September, October, November. The first in the White House since Trump lost the election, four months since we've had one of those. As you have 259 percent surge in deaths in just the past week.
The president, though, was nowhere to be seen. More than 250,000 Americans have now lost their lives to coronavirus.
OUTFRONT now, Dr. Jonathan Reiner who advised the White House medical unit under President George W. Bush.
Dr. Reiner, look, you hear people like Gary Cohn saying the big crisis is the surge, the surge in the coronavirus while the president, of course, is spending his time worried about other things. What is your reaction to what we heard from Dr. Fauci today?
DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, long overdue. You know, the task force meeting before they were cancelled months ago had devolved into just basically a long winded recitation of ventilators constructed and masks delivered. But what they always needed to be was, you know, the administration experts, Fauci and Birx, telling the public what they needed to do. And that's what we heard today.
We heard an optimistic Tony Fauci telling the American public that help is on the way, but in order to get there, we need to wear masks, we need to social distance and avoid crowded places. So I love that. I love that.
It was also interesting to me who wasn't there. Scott Atlas wasn't there. Scott Atlas was only there to parrot the administration's policies before the election, but now, gone.
BURNETT: So -- and, Scott Atlas, of course, you know, is the one who, you know, said it was okay to not wear masks to the president's rallies. He's really the one who has been in the president's ear on this since he joined the task force.
REINER: Right.
BURNETT: Now, the CDC, to your point about Dr. Fauci giving people a sense of what they can do, the CDC updated its guidelines today, urging Americans not to travel for Thanksgiving. It should seem obvious, but they actually had not formally done it. They say we've seen more than a million new cases in the U.S. over the past week and, of course, Admiral Giroir is talking about the surge in hospitalizations and deaths.
We're only a week away from Thanksgiving. United at one point saying they needed to add 1,400 more flights. AAA says 15 million people planning to travel across the country. They've already made their plans.
Why did the CDC wait so long to say don't do it?
REINER: Well, it's hard to ignore the possibility there was a heavy political hand on the CDC, preventing them making that kind of statement before the election, and that's really when it should have been made.
Look, on the day of the election, we had about 80,000 cases and the trend was clear. So we knew we were going over 100,000, 150,000 cases a day. The CDC could have said don't travel on Thanksgiving then.
But the administration -- that's not the message the administration was trying to make. They were trying to say we're rounding the corner. If we're rounding the corner, well, you should be going to grandma's house for Thanksgiving, but that's not what we should be doing. People should really stay home.
We'll have a great Thanksgiving next year. I'm really optimistic about it. Thanksgiving is just a day on the calendar. We can make Thanksgiving any day we want, but we can't replace people that we care about, so let's protect the people we care about, stay home this year.
BURNETT: So, President-elect Joe Biden today met with governors on coronavirus. One of them was Gretchen Whitmer. She was on the show. It was bipartisan. There were Democrats, there were Republicans in equal numbers and Biden said they discussed a national mask mandate. He did make it clear there will not be a national shutdown, though. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT: I am not going to shut down the economy, period. I'm going to shut down the virus. That's what I'm going to shut down.
REPORTER: So that's ruled out?
BIDEN: I'll say it again. No national shutdown. No national shutdown.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OK. Repeating it again and again, right? He wants to make it clear that was politics. What do you make of his strategy so far?
REINER: I think it's smart. Let's get people to do what's easy first and then, you know, Biden and his team can help the governors have in selected places have them put in place harder measures. And we're seeing governors have to do that. Shut down businesses, close restaurants, install curfews in places where the virus is really --
BURNETT: Yeah.
REINER: Rampaging. That message should come from the governors and the federal government should help the governors make that message.
BURNETT: All right. Dr. Reiner, thank you for your time. I appreciate it.
And thanks so much to all of you for yours.
Anderson starts now.
